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    PAK-DA: News

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    eehnie

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:50 pm

    Russia thinks not like you, GarryB. To wait to the Tu-PAK-DA to restart the productionof strategic bombers means 10 years of delay in serial production, and Russia wants not to wait.

    It ruins your argument about a subsonic Tu-PAK-DA replacing the Tu-95 in active service, because by the time of the serial production of the Tu-PAK-DA Russia likely will have only supersonic Tu-160 and Tu-22 in active service. And you know perfectly that no-one of the two will be replaced by subsonic aircrafts with worse features. By the time when the serial production of the Tu-PAK-DA begins (maybe around 2027-2030) the Tu-95 will likely remain only in the reserve.

    Your ardent defense of a US B-2 like aircraft for Russia, trying to make successful the failed US stealth strategy thanks to make Russia a late follower of the US, is not working. Russia seems not to buy the argument and will not make a subsonic war aircraft for the role of strategic bomber. It is to return one step back. It is a non-sense (also looking at the trends on maritime patrol tant give room to increase the number of fast strategic bombers in the future).
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    Rmf

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Rmf on Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:31 pm

    hoom wrote:
    it seems you see what youwant to see red part is titanium that holds wings !!!,blue is aluminium!!!,central box will curve out into flying wing .
    Yes the truely unique bit of engineering of Tu-160 that makes sense to re-use is the giant titanium swing-wing hinge box at least if you're planning on making a swing-wing bomber either a stealthised Tu-160 rework or a modernised T-4MS.
    Your blue bit is pretty much just any old bit of aluminium fuselage that makes barely any sense to re-use especially if you're trying to make a B2 type stealth flying wing.
    well its still a big piece , the biggest piece, it has fuel tanks and rotary launcher , the good question as said is where will intakes then be? at the bottom then curve upwards?

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Azi on Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:23 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Enera wrote:I think if PAK-DA is supposedly a supersonic flying wing, it could be theoretically done; following BAE's Taranis and Dassault's Neuron UCAVs, both are projected to be supersonic when they have the engines for it. After all, a military turbofan can reach supersonic speed without needing afterburners where this is called as supercruise if the engine have enough dry thrust for it. The rest would depend on the shape where the said flying wing must look like some sort of flying spade to minimize drag. In terms of controlling the said flying wing, there were developments into blown flaps/fluidic spoilers in the Western world where air is bled from the engines and toward the wing, to act like a flap.

    That said, tail stabilizers in turn can be somewhat mimicked by fluidic thrust vectoring (FTV) where air bypass from the engines are used to affect the thrust direction of the engines' exhausts respectively. Both fluidic spoiler and FTV were simultaneously demonstrated in BAE's Demon UCAV study where it flies (albeit subsonically) without any flap or stabilizers, relying on air bleed to do all traditional maneuvers. Now whether the designers wanted to try something as experimental as aforementioned is anyone's guess but on theoretical standpoint, only budget (and time) would preclude a supersonic flying wing.

    Supersonic and flying wing do not go together, sry. If you want to modify flying wing to be able of being supersonic, it will lose flying wing configuration, it will be some sort of hybrid.
    That's absolute correct! A flying wing CAN'T be supersonic, due to aerodynamic. The often shown T-4MS is NOT a flying wing, it's a delta shaped aircraft optimized for the speed region between supersonic and hypersonic.

    I don't understand the discussion in this thread dunno Russian MoD said that PAK-DA will be a flying wing design, so it can be only subsonic.

    The design of a flying wing similar to B2 makes perfekt sense, because PAK-DA will fulfill two roles. Fist role is to penetrate low to medium defended AD zones, for example in conflict zones like Ukraine. Second role is a cruise missile carrier with huge loiter time.

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Azi on Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:29 pm

    eehnie wrote:Your ardent defense of a US B-2 like aircraft for Russia, trying to make successful the failed US stealth strategy thanks to make Russia a late follower of the US, is not working. Russia seems not to buy the argument and will not make a subsonic war aircraft for the role of strategic bomber. It is to return one step back. It is a non-sense (also looking at the trends on maritime patrol tant give room to increase the number of fast strategic bombers in the future).
    Where B2 or stealth technology failed? China and Russia are adopting stealth technology for their 5. generation fighters, so stealth is a step back?!
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    eehnie

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:05 am

    Azi wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Your ardent defense of a US B-2 like aircraft for Russia, trying to make successful the failed US stealth strategy thanks to make Russia a late follower of the US, is not working. Russia seems not to buy the argument and will not make a subsonic war aircraft for the role of strategic bomber. It is to return one step back. It is a non-sense (also looking at the trends on maritime patrol tant give room to increase the number of fast strategic bombers in the future).
    Where B2 or stealth technology failed? China and Russia are adopting stealth technology for their 5. generation fighters, so stealth is a step back?!

    The wrong part of the US stealth strategy begins when they decided to sacrifice other key features, like speed, in order to increase the stealth capabilities of their stealth aircrafts. Stealth technologies only give a temporary advantage, for a limited timeline, until detection technologies are improved. In this moment, the warfare that loses its stealth advantage and has sacrified other key features becomes highly obsolete.

    As example the B-2. When the aircraft loses its stealth advantage, becomes a B-52 or Tu-95 like aircraft, fairly under the features of the older Tu-160.

    The US is facing now the reality of the failure of their stealth strategy approach, with the design of the F-35. Just because on fighters they can not sacrifice key features. Doing it the weakness of the project is clear and evident.
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:23 am

    Russia thinks not like you, GarryB. To wait to the Tu-PAK-DA to restart the productionof strategic bombers means 10 years of delay in serial production, and Russia wants not to wait.

    First flight for Tu-160M2 is 2018 but serial production wont start till about 2023.

    First PAK DA design is supposed to be flight tested in 2019 but serial production wont start until 2025.

    5 years ago there was no plan to restart production of the Tu-160... ideas perhaps, but no concrete decision... they could just as easily have decided to just make supersonic PAK DA instead of making Tu-160M2 and then PAK DA if it was supersonic... the delay would be less than 5 years because making a factory able to build precision stealth structures is not cheap or simple... but you are going to need it whether you are building Tu-160M2s or PAK DAs.

    By making the PAK DA subsonic it makes sense to make both supersonic Tu-160M2s and remake the existing Tu-160s to M2 standard, and then to make PAK DAs to replace the Tu-95s.

    It ruins your argument about a subsonic Tu-PAK-DA replacing the Tu-95 in active service, because by the time of the serial production of the Tu-PAK-DA Russia likely will have only supersonic Tu-160 and Tu-22 in active service.

    Duh... the Tu-95 could operate for the next 50 years just fine... they are nearly new airframes... most manufactured at the same time as the Tu-160s in service... mid 1980s to mid 1990s...

    The USAF will keep the B-52 in service well into 2030... the Bear likely wont stay in service that long... but certainly could if needed.

    And you know perfectly that no-one of the two will be replaced by subsonic aircrafts with worse features. By the time when the serial production of the Tu-PAK-DA begins (maybe around 2027-2030) the Tu-95 will likely remain only in the reserve.

    Serial production of the PAK DA will likely begin in 2025.

    A flying wing PAK DA will be vastly more stealthy than any model Bear no matter what modifications you could possibly make to it. In terms of aerodynamics a clean flying wing will have longer range and much better cruise performance in terms of speed and range... of course the Tu-95 is the worlds fastest propeller driven aircraft even to this day and is one of the few propeller driven aircraft that actually needs a swept wing.

    A flying wing subsonic PAK DA will offer better penetration performance in conventional strike missions for theatre work and likely have a bomb carrying capacity much greater than the Tu-95. In terms of strategic missions it will also likely have rather better bomb payload range performance too.

    Being subsonic it should be much cheaper to operate than the supersonic Blackjacks.

    Your ardent defense of a US B-2 like aircraft for Russia, trying to make successful the failed US stealth strategy thanks to make Russia a late follower of the US, is not working.

    Actually I agree that a stealthy B-2 aircraft is a waste of time for Russia in the cold war... it is a first strike weapon in its current form, which is something of no value to Russia.

    However in 10-20 years time air defences are becoming rather more capable and a flying wing bomber will be useful in conventional missions... for instance over Syria now with an escort of fighters with a very heavy conventional bomb load able to hit multiple targets with cheap dumb bombs without having to spend large amounts on cruise missiles.

    Against enemies without effective air forces and without powerful SAM systems it would not need an escort and would allow long flights with little warning to targets at high altitudes...

    Russia seems not to buy the argument and will not make a subsonic war aircraft for the role of strategic bomber. It is to return one step back. It is a non-sense (also looking at the trends on maritime patrol tant give room to increase the number of fast strategic bombers in the future).

    I agree with you... I think they should at least explore a supercruising mach 1.5-1.6 design with a flying wing and thrust vector engine control to allow the transition from subsonic to supersonic flight without pitch problems... it would not add too much to operating costs... would greatly increase performance in terms of time to target without increasing fuel load requirements or operating costs too seriously.

    Hypersonic on the other hand is just too large a step for a bomber... it makes more sense to develop stealthy subsonic and hypersonic cruise missiles... easier to achieve within the time frame and much cheaper... yet offering all the problems of interception for the enemy...

    Hopefully the Tu-160M2 can be made to supercruise with the new engines... that would mean much higher average speed performance and increase the problems of interception for the defences of the enemy... especially the F-35 defenders...


    As example the B-2. When the aircraft loses its stealth advantage, becomes a B-52 or Tu-95 like aircraft, fairly under the features of the older Tu-160.

    Even today with long wave ground radars a B-2 trying to penetrate Russian air space would be horrendously vulnerable to any gun armed fighter aircraft... even MiG-21s and MiG-23s would eat it for breakfast and they could do nothing to escape... a MiG-29 or Su-27 or even a MiG-31 could destroy a B-2 easily with cannon.

    The point is that Russia wont use their flying wing bomber in contested airspace... theatre bombing with escort and strategic bombing with standoff cruise missiles.


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    Militarov

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:53 pm

    Azi wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Your ardent defense of a US B-2 like aircraft for Russia, trying to make successful the failed US stealth strategy thanks to make Russia a late follower of the US, is not working. Russia seems not to buy the argument and will not make a subsonic war aircraft for the role of strategic bomber. It is to return one step back. It is a non-sense (also looking at the trends on maritime patrol tant give room to increase the number of fast strategic bombers in the future).
    Where B2 or stealth technology failed? China and Russia are adopting stealth technology for their 5. generation fighters, so stealth is a step back?!

    Everything US does is a step back around here, get used to it.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Militarov on Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:58 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    Azi wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Your ardent defense of a US B-2 like aircraft for Russia, trying to make successful the failed US stealth strategy thanks to make Russia a late follower of the US, is not working. Russia seems not to buy the argument and will not make a subsonic war aircraft for the role of strategic bomber. It is to return one step back. It is a non-sense (also looking at the trends on maritime patrol tant give room to increase the number of fast strategic bombers in the future).
    Where B2 or stealth technology failed? China and Russia are adopting stealth technology for their 5. generation fighters, so stealth is a step back?!

    The wrong part of the US stealth strategy begins when they decided to sacrifice other key features, like speed, in order to increase the stealth capabilities of their stealth aircrafts. Stealth technologies only give a temporary advantage, for a limited timeline, until detection technologies are improved. In this moment, the warfare that loses its stealth advantage and has sacrified other key features becomes highly obsolete.

    As example the B-2. When the aircraft loses its stealth advantage, becomes a B-52 or Tu-95 like aircraft, fairly under the features of the older Tu-160.

    The US is facing now the reality of the failure of their stealth strategy approach, with the design of the F-35. Just because on fighters they can not sacrifice key features. Doing it the weakness of the project is clear and evident.

    Even if B-2 was made out of stainless steel, it would still have about... 100 times less RCS than Tu-95, i really hope you are aware of that... Bear is turboprop, its reflecting so much back to reciever that it looks like flying building.

    Sure, you sacrifice speed, and you gain range, loitering, stealth... let alone fact that B-2 in terms of avionics is about...lightyears than any other bomber in existence, might even keep being so till replacement arrives.

    There is no perfect answer, something needs to be sacrificed. I personally prefer to sacrifice speed out of all above listed.
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    Rmf

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:32 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    Azi wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Your ardent defense of a US B-2 like aircraft for Russia, trying to make successful the failed US stealth strategy thanks to make Russia a late follower of the US, is not working. Russia seems not to buy the argument and will not make a subsonic war aircraft for the role of strategic bomber. It is to return one step back. It is a non-sense (also looking at the trends on maritime patrol tant give room to increase the number of fast strategic bombers in the future).
    Where B2 or stealth technology failed? China and Russia are adopting stealth technology for their 5. generation fighters, so stealth is a step back?!

    The wrong part of the US stealth strategy begins when they decided to sacrifice other key features, like speed, in order to increase the stealth capabilities of their stealth aircrafts. Stealth technologies only give a temporary advantage, for a limited timeline, until detection technologies are improved. In this moment, the warfare that loses its stealth advantage and has sacrified other key features becomes highly obsolete.

    As example the B-2. When the aircraft loses its stealth advantage, becomes a B-52 or Tu-95 like aircraft, fairly under the features of the older Tu-160.

    The US is facing now the reality of the failure of their stealth strategy approach, with the design of the F-35. Just because on fighters they can not sacrifice key features. Doing it the weakness of the project is clear and evident.

    Even if B-2 was made out of stainless steel, it would still have about... 100 times less RCS than Tu-95, i really hope you are aware of that... Bear is turboprop, its reflecting so much back to reciever that it looks like flying building.

    Sure, you sacrifice speed, and you gain range, loitering, stealth... let alone fact that B-2 in terms of avionics is about...lightyears than any other bomber in existence, might even keep being so till replacement arrives.

    There is no perfect answer, something needs to be sacrificed. I personally prefer to sacrifice speed out of all above listed.
    and B-2 is faster then Tu-95 bear, its maximum speed is high subsonic 0,9 mach.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Russia thinks not like you, GarryB. To wait to the Tu-PAK-DA to restart the productionof strategic bombers means 10 years of delay in serial production, and Russia wants not to wait.

    First flight for Tu-160M2 is 2018 but serial production wont start till about 2023.

    First PAK DA design is supposed to be flight tested in 2019 but serial production wont start until 2025.

    5 years ago there was no plan to restart production of the Tu-160... ideas perhaps, but no concrete decision... they could just as easily have decided to just make supersonic PAK DA instead of making Tu-160M2 and then PAK DA if it was supersonic... the delay would be less than 5 years because making a factory able to build precision stealth structures is not cheap or simple... but you are going to need it whether you are building Tu-160M2s or PAK DAs.

    This is not realistict. Where come from this data? It must be from very old projections. Not updated. Do you have some link?

    When the restart of the production of the Tu-160 was approved the timeline for the Tu-PAK-DA was increased, like we can see in this article:

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/12/12/russia-renew-production-tu-160-strategic-bombers.html

    n April 2015, Russian Defense Minister Gen. Sergei Shoigu announced the decision to resume the production of Tu-160 in a modernized version - the Tu-160M2 - and move to the finalization of a new generation bomber PAK DA at a later date.
    ...
    By the end of 2016, the upgrade of the Tu-160M2 (NATO reporting name: Blackjack) supersonic, variable-sweep strategic bomber fleet to Tu-160M2 standard is ahead of schedule. The technical documentation is expected to be fully digitized this month. The maiden flight is shifted from 2019 to 2018 with the tests complete in 2021. Then, the Kazan Aircraft Plant will start serial production. The modernization will increase the aircraft’s life span for another 30 years. The Russian military plans to have 50 aircraft upgraded to the M2 standard.
    ...
    Russia is working on the PAK DA («prospective aviation complex for long-range aviation») new generation strategic bomber. The development is being delayed with the first unit to appear between 2020 and 2025.
    ...
    Actually, the Tu-160M2 is almost a new plane. The only thing left unchanged is the airframe.
    ...

    For the Tu-160 the design phase will be significantly shorter, the testing phase will be significantly shorter and the preparation for the serial production phase will be significantly shorter. The process of design, test and launch of serial production of a variant, is not like the process for a completely new aircraft. This is the reality. The Tu-160 is now ahead of the schedule after doing the entire digitalization of the documents, the most arduous part of the process. The contruction of the first prototype is to begin fast this year, and like the first fly has been moved one year earlier surely the begin of the serial production can be moved also to 2020.

    For the Tu-PAK-DA, the last reports are talking about the first fly (between 2020 and 2025) which means a difference until 7 years for the first fly. In this case Russia has not incentive or interest in to complete the process in the lower possible timeline. Their interest is more in to complete an advanced design for the next 50 years. Despite it, I hope the first fly to be earlier than 2025, because if the difference between the first fly reachs 7 years, the difference in the begin of the serial production can be bigger than 10 years.

    I think it would be possible for the Tu-PAK-DA to have the first unit ready around 2025 (it would mean to be in the situation of the Su-PAK-FA in 2015, and remember that today there is not still serial production of the Su-PAK-FA). For it the first fly of the Tu-PAK-DA should be around 2022 and the serial production would not begin befor 2028-2030. But even this would mean an ambitious timeline for the Tu-PAK-DA.


    Last edited by eehnie on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:57 pm; edited 2 times in total

    Austin

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    Developers defined preliminary design of a new strategic bomber

    Post  Austin on Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:04 am

    Developers defined preliminary design of a new strategic bomber

    https://rns.online/military/Razrabotchiki-zaschitili-avanproekt-novogo-strategicheskogo-raketonostsa-2017-02-23/

    In Russia, work is underway to create a new generation of strategic missile (PAK DA, PAK DA), which will come to replace the Tu-22M3 and Tu-160, said in an interview RNS scientific director of FSUE "GosNIIAS" Academician Yevgeny Fedosov.

    "According to the prospective long-range aviation complex - PAK DA - we even defined preliminary design", - said Fedosov, responding to a question about the work of the PAK DA.

    According Fedosov, VCS requirements for the new long-range aircraft are very high. "The military is not too lazy, and write whatever they think. This strategic bomber, and operational-tactical missile bomber, even a long-range interceptor and a possible platform for spacecraft launches, " 'said Fedosov.


    He noted that the development and take into account the economic factor. "Tu-160 - a very expensive. The military decided to make a new airplane is cheaper, but greater in number. He should immediately replace three aircraft - the line Tu-22M3 and Tu-95MS and Tu-160. The solution adopted is: preliminary design score? Came to the conclusion that you need to build, "- said the academician.

    At the same time, Fedosov approved the reopening of the modernized Tu-160m2 in Kazan. "I think that Tu-160 - a masterpiece that is still unsurpassed" - Fedosov said.
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    George1

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:19 pm

    Russian manufacturer creates first full-size model of future strategic bomber — source

    A future bomber is believed to incorporate all the latest achievements in the stealth technology, making the plane invisible to radars

    MOSCOW, March 1. /TASS/. The first full-size model of Russia’s future long-range bomber PAK DA, being developed for the Aerospace Force, has been created by the Tupolev company, a source in Russia’s defense-industrial complex told TASS.

    "Several scale mock-ups of the PAK DA bomber have been made of composite materials. Also, there is a full-size mock-up made of wood. All models are based on the flying wing concept," the source said.

    Its airframe will be made of radar-absorbent material. All weapons will be placed inside the fuselage.

    "Also, PAK DA is to be equipped with the latest radioelectronic warfare equipment of domestic manufacture, unparalleled in terms of effectiveness," the source said.

    Another source in the Russian defense industry said the first test sample of a future bomber will perform its first flight by 2025. The plane will have a subsonic speed.

    TASS has no official confirmation of these data.

    Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said earlier the PAK DA bomber may be presented to the public at large in 2018. Its parameters will exceed by far those of the existing bombers. The original plan was the first bombers would be delivered in 2023-2025, while the test flights were to be carried out in 2019-2020. Later, it was announced that the bomber’s creation was postponed in favor of resuming the serial production of the Tupolev-160 bomber.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/933391


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    berhoum

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    PAK-DA News

    Post  berhoum on Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:35 pm

    1st prototype of the future bomber waited for 2025 and either on 2018 as suggests him(it) Borisov last year !

    Beautiful bird russia



    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4060663

    https://lenta.ru/news/2017/03/01/maket/
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    hoom

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  hoom on Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:23 am

    Russian manufacturer creates first full-size model of future strategic bomber — source
    They used the windtunnel BWB model pic again cheers
    Other sites are using this fan-art (I think?) one instead/as well

    I like that concept too Smile
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    Militarov

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:15 am

    hoom wrote:
    Russian manufacturer creates first full-size model of future strategic bomber — source
    They used the windtunnel BWB model pic again cheers
    Other sites are using this fan-art (I think?) one instead/as well

    I like that concept too Smile

    Yes, that one is fan art.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:20 am

    berhoum wrote:1st prototype of the future bomber waited for 2025 and either on 2018 as suggests him(it) Borisov last year !

    Beautiful bird russia



    ...............

    Is that from Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak? confused
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    berhoum

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    PAK-DA: News

    Post  berhoum on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:01 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Is that from Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak? 

    hello It is battlefield 4 to wallpaper hd 1920x1080  Smile
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    eehnie

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:39 pm

    This comment:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1803p525-is-russia-safe-from-f-22-and-2#188525

    must return to this topic.

    It is disgusting to see how the comments are moved and I appear in topics where I do not want to be.

    It is disgusting to see how while my answer was moved (likely by GarryB), the comment of GarryB I was answering remains in this same page.
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:04 am

    I didn't move anything.

    Your comment is as expected however... jumping to conclusions seems to be a habit of yours.

    There seem to be quite a few posts in that thread that really belong here as they relate to the PAK DA rather than the threat to Russia of the B-2 and F-35, but I don't have time right now.

    I will likely have a shift around tomorrow, if i get time.


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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:26 am

    GarryB wrote:I didn't move anything.

    Your comment is as expected however... jumping to conclusions seems to be a habit of yours.

    There seem to be quite a few posts in that thread that really belong here as they relate to the PAK DA rather than the threat to Russia of the B-2 and F-35, but I don't have time right now.

    I will likely have a shift around tomorrow, if i get time.

    To move comments without say who does it, why and where is habitual practice in this forum and is only fault of the mods.

    Who did it then? To say that you likely did it was not a conclusion, was a likely option.
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    George1

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:00 am

    Russia to develop first prototype of next-generation strategic bomber by early 2020s

    MOSCOW, April 13. /TASS/. The first experimental prototype of Russia’s next-generation strategic bomber abbreviated as PAK DA is expected to be developed in the early 2020s and the relevant contract has been signed, a source in the country’s defense industry told TASS on Thursday.

    The first stage of the R&D work on the new strategic bomber was completed in 2016, the source said.

    "Now we are switching to the second stage: the development of design documentation and further on - the manufacture of the aircraft’s experimental prototypes. The military has signed a contract for the fulfillment of works at this stage with the United Aircraft-Building Corporation. The first experimental prototype is expected to be manufactured in the early 2020s," the source said.

    The aircraft will be based on the flying wing design and "other schemes are not being considered or discussed. This is the sole and the approved version," the source said.

    TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.

    Another source in the Russian defense industry earlier told TASS that Tupolev Aircraft Company had already made a full-size wooden mockup model of the PAK DA and also several smaller mockups of composite materials.

    PAK DA next-generation strategic bomber

    The Perspective Airborne Complex of Long-Range Aviation (PAK DA) is a Russian next-generation strategic bomber being developed by the Tupolev aircraft manufacturer. R&D work on the bomber started in 2009. The PAK DA will fly at subsonic speeds and carry weapons inside its body. The aircraft’s design will maximally use radar-absorbing materials (the stealth technology).

    The bomber was initially planned to start arriving for the Russian Armed Forces in 2023-2025 and the first test flights were scheduled for 2019-2020. It emerged later that the bomber’s development had been rescheduled due to the resumed serial production of the Tu-160 strategic missile carrier.

    The first flight of the PAK DA experimental prototype is planned for 2025.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/941152


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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Isos on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:25 pm

    Found this in a french forum. From an book about Tu-160. It's a Tu-170(??) according to them.


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    Militarov

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:31 pm

    Isos wrote:Found this in a french forum. From an book about Tu-160. It's a Tu-170(??) according to them.



    Tu-170 was some kind of very early development for conventional bomber on Tu-160 base to evade certain limitations enforced by SALT threaty. It never went further from idea from what i am aware, so this is probably just fan art.
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Isos on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:52 pm

    I didn't know. It looks cool with the engines place like that. What do you mean by conventional ? Tu-160 has nothing more than a conventional bomber.
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    eehnie

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:33 pm


    There is not a chance that after more than 30 years, the future Tu-PAK-DA has inferior features than the Tu-160 in key variables (like the speed).

    If this would be true the Tu-PAK-DA would be a total failure because the orders of new aircrafts would continue with the Tu-160.

    Russia knows it and will not fall on this. And with Tupolev in charge of both projects, their wish of success for both is assured (in fact the future of the company depends of it).

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