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    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:16 pm

    Although I do agree that as long as Russia has a good stock of nuclear warheads that makes it invulnerable against NATo aggression it does need to research into more advanced hardware if not build them in large numbers. the tu-160 replacement could be useful as a more survivable nuclear missile truck so cancelling it would be stupid IMO. As for the army it needs constant development on its effectiveness to destroy insurgents and naughty conventional armies like Suckasswilly's. Also having better APCs and tanks is a matter of national pride and respect. As for navy I think Russia should develop in more blue-water capability so it could assist overseas countries like Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Serbia, Syria, etc. against western colonialism.
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    Post  nemrod Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:59 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote: As for navy I think Russia should develop in more blue-water capability.....

    One the great challenge tomorow, is seas' presences. Since the begining of last century, the Russia's weak point -even soviet era- was Navy.
    It is one of Russias's top priorities, to enhance it capacities in all oceans, however in cooperation with China, as agessive USA is decided more than never to make troubles everywhere in the world.
    Russia has the capacity, but it will be more efficient with cooperations, for example with China, India, Brazil, even Germany. Indeed Berlin wants to break with Nato. Russia will have to exploit this card.
    In this circumstances, an expensive stealth bomber's program is not welcome, just only for Research/Developpment.
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    Post  Viktor Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:19 am

    Word of flying wing design reminds people of B-2. It is obviously difficult to imagine any other shape as most of the guys

    start accusing of copy-paste straight away. Most people forget that there can be many different flying wing design.

    Anyway there was one picture a concept art made by some guy but still based on the real project from SSSR and as most of Soviet/Russian

    design this one is rather interesting too. It might be that this or something like this is how future Russian bomber will look like.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:38 am

    Except that that design is actually older than the Tu-160.

    That is the T-4MS and was one of the alternative designs they considered before they built the Tu-160.
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    Post  Zivo Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:47 pm

    It's also supposed to be subsonic.

    If the requirements stated are actually correct, expect something like a B-2.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:41 am

    Of course the one genuine advantage of subsonic bombers is the ability to carry large strangely shaped weapons externally without heavily impacting performance.

    Such a thing would have a seriously negative effect on RCS but with a 5,000km range hypersonic cruise missile it wont matter.
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    Post  Austin Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:20 pm

    New US Bomber LRS-B will have features of B-2 according to Janes

    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/04/30/lrsb/


    Will new Russian bomber will be able to compete with new American Bomber ?
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    Post  GarryB Wed May 01, 2013 11:06 am

    You do ask the strangest questions sometimes Austin.

    Do you think there is a lucrative market for exporting next generation bombers?

    How do you define the best?

    I would think the main question for the Russians is, "Does the new bomber we are going to spend a significant amount of money on do the job for which it is intended, or does it make sense to spend it on other things?"

    It really doesn't matter at all whether the new Russian bomber is better or worse than the proposed US bomber, just the same as the main Russian tank needs a gun that can penetrate enemy armour and meaningful battlefield ranges... just being the most powerful gun is not of any use.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed May 01, 2013 11:43 am

    What relevance does it have for Russian strategic bomber development - what the Americans decide to do?
    Can someone explain please.
    So if America decides to hold off its next-gen bomber development; why should that effect Russia's decision in any way?

    Unless of course the Russian decision on the development of their next-gen bomber was based on some other factors other than what exactly is needed in order to guarantee Russia's defense.
    In which case it was a bad decision-making process from the start
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    Post  GarryB Wed May 01, 2013 2:10 pm

    Unless of course the Russian decision on the development of their next-gen bomber was based on some other factors other than what exactly is needed in order to guarantee Russia's defense.
    In which case it was a bad decision-making process from the start

    Exactly... to determine if the PAK DA is a good bomber or not you don't compare it with any US bomber, you look at its attributes and try to determine what Russia expects from it and then assess whether it will achieve these goals without being too expensive.

    If the design influences the design of other aircraft you can be sure it was sucessful... but that is another aspect.
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    Post  Austin Wed May 01, 2013 7:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:You do ask the strangest questions sometimes Austin.

    Do you think there is a lucrative market for exporting next generation bombers?

    How do you define the best?

    I would think the main question for the Russians is, "Does the new bomber we are going to spend a significant amount of money on do the job for which it is intended, or does it make sense to spend it on other things?"

    It really doesn't matter at all whether the new Russian bomber is better or worse than the proposed US bomber, just the same as the main Russian tank needs a gun that can penetrate enemy armour and meaningful battlefield ranges... just being the most powerful gun is not of any use.

    Ofcourse the Russians do compare their aircraft with american , check Putin statement of PAK-FA when compared to F-22 and even lately where he compared it with F-35.

    Comparasion with PAK-DA with LRS-B would eventually come up for sure
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    Post  Viktor Thu May 02, 2013 12:29 am

    Austin wrote:Ofcourse the Russians do compare their aircraft with american , check Putin statement of PAK-FA when compared to F-22 and even lately where he compared it with F-35.

    Comparasion with PAK-DA with LRS-B would eventually come up for sure

    PAK-FA has export potential and PAK-DA don`t.

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    Post  GarryB Thu May 02, 2013 3:04 am

    Ofcourse the Russians do compare their aircraft with american , check Putin statement of PAK-FA when compared to F-22 and even lately where he compared it with F-35.

    Perhaps that is because he recognises the ignorance of the western audience and that most would not know what a PAK FA is unless he mentions their US equivalents, though in this case when the PAK FA enters service it will be facing NATO F-35s along its border and both aircraft and potentially... though unlikely the F-22 might be forward deployed too.

    In the case of strategic bombers the most that will happen is that they will pass each other over the north pole where their relative merits and flaws will mean little.

    Comparasion with PAK-DA with LRS-B would eventually come up for sure

    Only as a meaningless dick measuring contest.

    PAK-FA has export potential and PAK-DA don`t.

    And PAK FA is a fighter that might have to fight an F-35 or F-22... strategic bombers never face each other... though imagine the concept of a WWII bomber interceptor developed from a heavy bomber with armour and heavy guns instead of a bomb payload that flies up to enemy bomber formations and shoots them down... fuel and range would not be important and could be replaced with ammo and armour and large calibre guns to allow these interceptors to fire on the enemy bombers from outside 50 cal range...

    The modern equivalent could replace the armour and guns with long range AAMs and a big powerful radar and Electro optic sights.
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:15 pm

    Voice Of Russia wrote:Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Viktor Bondarev said that all the relevant document were signed allowing the industry to begin the development of systems for the plane.

    According to the RIA Novosti, Russian Air Force commander insisted that the aircraft will be equipped with advanced electronic warfare systems and armed with new nuclear-capable long-range cruise missiles, and will be able to carry a wide array of conventional precision guided weapons.

    Here are more details about the project by expert at Centre for Strategic Technology Analysis, Vasily Kashin.

    The new Prospective Air Complex for Long Range Aviation (PAK DA) will replace the Tu-95MS and Tu-160 bombers that Russia is using now. The Tupolev Designing Bureau will develop the new bomber. It will deliver its plan for the development of the aircraft and the estimation of the cost of this work to the Defence Ministry.

    Reportedly, the serial production of the bomber is expected to start in 2020. However, some other reports say that the aircraft will make its maiden flight in 2020. Concerning its engines, their development was started in 2011. It's quite possible that the aircraft will be equipped with the updated models of the 117S or NK-32 advanced engines. The weapon systems are also being developed.

    It has been suggested that the bomber will carry X-101 cruise missiles that can hit a target at a distance of 5,500 kilometers. Moreover it may carry short-range missiles and glide bombs.

    At present, according to the approved project, the future bomber will be built under the "flying-wing" scheme similar to the American B-2 Spirit. At present, this is the only stealth strategic bomber that has been developed to a level for launching serial production. The price of a bomber with the necessary equipment and spare parts was estimated at over $900 million in the 1990s, while the overall cost of the development and the production of all aircraft was about $45 billion.

    Most likely, similar to the American B-2, the Russian bomber will fly at a high subsonic speed. Basic attention will be focused on its long-range and stealth technology. In this case, the Russian bomber will differ from the future Chinese strategic bomber, which judging by mock-up models, will be a supersonic aircraft.

    At the same time, analysts insist that the Chinese project will cost huge sums and experience technical difficulties when taking into account, that unlike the U.S. and Russia, China has no experience at all in this area. Practically, if China wants to implement the programme up to serial production, it will have to spend huge sums comparable to that of the entire manned-space programme.

    In fact, the Russian project is not starting from scratch. The Tupolev Design Bureau worked on the Tu-202 project in the 1970s and 1980s. It planned to develop this aircraft in two versions, strategic bomber and long-range anti-submarine aircraft.

    The aircraft was planned to be built according to the "flying wing" design. Its total range was 16,000 kilometers, while the range of the bomber carrying 6 cruise missiles was 5,500 kilometers. In the 1980s, a large number of aerodynamic experiments were carried out using models of the aircraft.

    New strategic bomber projects are always linked with huge technical risks. Nevertheless, the development of the PAK DA will provide Russia an effective system capable of hitting targets at any points on the Earth, within several hours of receiving the order, without need for foreign bases.


    Last edited by Sujoy on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:21 pm


    Military Russia.ru wrote:According to the General Director of JSC "Tupolev" I.Shevchuka at the MAKS-2009 - a contract under the program PAK DA won KB them. Tupolev and in 2009 the Russian Defense Ministry has signed a contract with JSC "Tupolev" on research and development on the basis of the design bomber Tu-160 (with government funding of R & D started in 2008). 23.12.2009 President of "Tupolev" Alexander Bobrishev said that research on the PAK DA will be completed in 2012 and CB ready to continue with the ROC, which will be completed in 2017 In 2011 VNIIRA to the preliminary design of the PAK DA developed a preliminary design of the integration complex avionics. YES Russian Air Force command issued to create TTP bomber 20.12.2011 By February 2012 R & D PAK DA is being developed and completed preliminary design of aircraft. Estimated date of the first flight (according to the plans in 2007) - 2015-2017 gg, summer 2009 announced that the first flight will take place in 2015 In late 2011, the first flight of the prototype is scheduled for 2020, the adoption of the aircraft into service is scheduled for 2025 June 28, 2012 appeared in the media statement of Commander of the Air Force Major General Victor Bondarev about that. that the image plane is formed and maintained tactical refinement specification. According to statements made ​​to the press in 2011 - the first half of 2012 the first flight is expected in 2020 September 26, 2012 in a press statement, Air Force Commander Viktor Bondar said that the development of the PAK DA goes according to plan, the shape of the aircraft (once again ) approved. The emergence of the first plane and the beginning of the test has been planned for 2022 ( source ). April 11, 2013 Russian Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Viktor Bondar said that "the creation of the complex is on the program. His principal face is formed, acts signed, and now the industry begins elemental design of systems in the plane. " Production of the aircraft in the future it is planned at the Kazan aircraft plant. July 9, 2013 in the media announced that the development of the aircraft will begin in 2014, "Tupolev" will finish the work on the tactical and technical characteristics of the PAK DA until the end of 2013 and in early 2014 the Ministry of Defense of Russia will present a calculation of the budget of research on the project. According to current plans, the mass production of bombers to begin in 2020.

    The design of the aircraft is performed with extensive use of composites and radar absorbing materials to facilitate and reduce the structural weight of the EPR aircraft. engines: in 2011 raoty started the engines for the PAK DA. In the development of engines involved FSUE "CIAM. Baranov ': - the beginning of 2012 held justification appearance and basic data for pre-and supersonic options PAK DA; - Developed preliminary design of the engine; - formed a list of critical technologies. ( source ) Option - 4 x turbofan engines with a thrust of 15500-18000 kg class "product 117C" (tentative information). Specific fuel consumption - 1 kg / km of track on one engine EYE "Kuznetsov" (engines NC) - in 2012 for the project development engine for the PAK DA A technical proposal for the motor to turn in the preliminary design of the PAK DA ( ist. - Chujko .) You probably use engine NK-32 of the second phase of modernization of production of "Smiths" with a thrust of up to 30,000 kg. The engine must be prepared in 2017-2018 yy Perhaps in the source engine is not mentioned in connection with the program PAK DA, and in connection with the modernization program of the Tu-160 ( source ). TTX Aircraft : Weight - about 125,000 kg Fuel weight - up to 50,000 kg Range - 12500 km Radius - 6000 -9000 km (probably with refueling) Max Speed ​​- 1.5-2 M Cruising - more than 1 M

    Armament:
    - KRBD type of X-101 and similar advanced models;
    - High-precision ASD and Raman short-range, including protivoradillokatsionnye (to break the enemy's air defense);
    - Svobodnopadayuschie bombs;
    - The air carrier operational and strategic HANDS (reconnaissance-strike complex) with air-launched ballistic missiles (for example, type " Iskander ", according to media reports from 2005);
    - Discusses the use of a plane missiles "air" for self-defense.

    Equipment : preliminary design of complex avionics integratsionnnogo to preliminary design prepared by the PAK DA VNIIRA in 2011 ( source ).

    Status :
    - 2008 - open R & D funding PAK DA.

    - 2009 - The contract between the Ministry of Defense of Russia and JSC "Tupolev" R & D PAK DA.

    - 2009 - designed, probably in the next few years, the production of models or even prototypes, has not been tested.

    - 22 December 2009 - Commander of the Russian Air Force YES Major General Anatoly Zhiharev said the PAK DA will replace "and distant, and strategic bombers and missile carriers" Tu-160, Tu-95MS and Tu-22M3. also stated that the new bomber entered service in 2025-2030 godgodah. For the first time stated that the PAK DA will be replaced including and Tu-22M3, which indirectly confirms our vision of the concept PAK DA - all-mode supersonic bomber representing a something between a Tu-22M3 and Tu-160.

    - 2009 December 23 - in an interview with news agency "Interfax" the president of the company "Tupolev" Alexander Bobrishev said that research on the PAK DA will be completed in 2012 and CB ready to continue with research and development which will be completed in 2017 and is planned to build adopt 100 units in the period up to 2027. - 2010 - Tactical Missiles Corporation has prepared information and analysis on the weapon system PAK DA ( Tactical Missiles Corporation's annual report for 2010 .) - 2012 June 28 - appeared in the media statements of Commander of Air Force Maj. Gen. Victor Bondarev that the appearance of the aircraft has already been formed and maintained tactical refinement specification.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:21 am

    For the first time stated that the PAK DA will be replaced including and Tu-22M3, which indirectly confirms our vision of the concept PAK DA - all-mode supersonic bomber representing a something between a Tu-22M3 and Tu-160.

    Wrong...

    The mention of the Tu-22M3 does not make it a supersonic bomber somewhere between the Tu-160 and the Tu-22M3... just as the original plan of replacing the Tu-95 and Tu-160 does not make it a subsonic swing wing jet bomber with some reduced RCS capabilities.

    The mention of the Tu-22M3 is simply obvious logic... the Tu-160 and Tu-95 in their upgraded M models have been adapted to theatre roles as well as their previously exclusive strategic nuclear roles... as such they will already be able to perform the mission of the theatre Tu-22M3 in conventional and nuclear attack roles.

    Any replacement for the Tu-160 and Tu-95 will therefore obviously be able to perform the roles of the Tu-22M3 as well... so instead of 100 Tu-95s, 16 Tu-160s, and 60 odd Tu-22M3s they will able to use 160 odd PAK DAs to perform the missions of all three aircraft and perhaps produce a few more with less stealth capability as Tu-142 replacements too.

    That doesn't mean the PAK DA will have the speed and performance of all the aircraft it is replacing... it really means payload and range first and foremost as the strategic and theatre performance will be mostly related to range and the weapons it can carry. (likely long range stealthy missiles but also hypersonic scramjet powered missiles too.)
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:34 am

    GarryB wrote:That doesn't mean the PAK DA will have the speed and performance of all the aircraft it is replacing...

    Max speed of the PAK DA has been pegged at Mach 2 .
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:02 am

    According to this author... because as the part I quoted points out he is expecting a Tu-160 like aircraft that is slightly heavier than the Tu-22M3.

    TTX Aircraft : Weight - about 125,000 kg Fuel weight - up to 50,000 kg Range - 12500 km Radius - 6000 -9000 km (probably with refueling) Max Speed ​​- 1.5-2 M Cruising - more than 1 M


    I have not seen this information released officially and think this is just speculation on the author of the article.

    At 125 tons this speculated design is not that much heavier than a fully loaded Tu-22M3 and would seem to me to represent a B-1Bski that was a bit more like the Tu-160... something I would see as rather a step backwards.

    From most other reports I have read the PAK DA is going to be a flying wing which means it will be subsonic only unless it has a horizontal tail surface to allow it to pass through the sound barrier safely.

    Personally I would love to see an enormous flying wing with horizontal tail surface with 4 NK-32 engines upgraded to 5th gen in the 30 ton class power range that would enable the stealthy flying wing to supercruise at very very high speed and high altitude, but odds are it will more likely be subsonic and carry very long range stealthy subsonic cruise missiles or medium range hypersonic cruise missiles.

    Long range and low RCS suggest flying wing... to keep costs and complexity down a fixed wing would make it cheaper though sophisticated flight controls like the upper intake of the PAK FA and other innovations could be applied along with a wing that is adaptable and thrust vectoring engines that allow the aircraft to be trimmed in flight to maximise performance in terms of aerodynamics and in reducing drag and RCS.

    A horizontal tail would allow the design deal with the serious shift in cg during the flight transition from subsonic to supersonic flight while highly variable cycle engines and extremely low drag should allow high supersonic cruise with scramjet propulsion using bypass air.

    Of course speed will be dictated by wing sweep and materials rather than engine power, though a lightened design could allow a reduction in weight by removing one engine and allowing the cavity left to operate as a scramjet high speed cruise engine to maximise range at high speed with minimum fuel burn.

    It could supercruise 10,000km at mach 1.8 because of its low drag and ability to trim with thrust vectoring engines, but for the 6,000km near enemy airspace... 3,000km in and 3,000km out, it could accelerate with its scramjet to much higher speeds for a relatively short period...
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    Post  Firebird Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 am

    Its a perculiar situation. Perhaps any lower speed Pak Da can replace the Bears.
    We don't really know if its a subsonic, or a Mach 1.5 to 2.0 tops plane.

    My concern is that the B1-B is fine for America, because it has bases all over the World. Russia does not, so it has to factor in travel time to destinations...

    The other concern is that if the/ a variant of the Pak Da is to form part of Russia's nuclear triad, it
    would help to have similarity in terms of response time to America's aircraft deployed missiles.
    Ofcourse it means Russia spending more on planes, but probably means it can spend less on subs, ships and ICMBs etc in this area.

    I wonder what could be done with an enlarged Pak Fa, with buddy refuelling, for rapid response long range attacks? (I know its payload would be relatively tiny.. but its stealth and its fast).

    Perhaps the argument is that Pak Da will be a relatively lower cost version for most uses. Then the true Tu-160 replacement will be some sort of prompt global strike, hypersonic plane, which will be arriving later...?
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:59 am

    GarryB wrote: and would seem to me to represent a B-1Bski that was a bit more like the Tu-160... something I would see as rather a step backwards.

    That will not happen because Russia is making efforts to restart production of the Tu-160's motors; a reworked version, the NK-32M, which will have a longer lifetime. A greatly improved gas generator has been bench tested successfully and production examples will be available by 2016 .

    Besides, various Russian scientific institutions, among them TsAGI (Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute), have been working on technologies of undoubted interest to designers working on the PAK-DA. In particular, TsAGI did intensive wind-tunnel testing on the Sova future hypersonic vehicle (capable of reaching a speed of Mach 5) and collaborated on domestic and European projects on future supersonic business jets, with the focus on sonic boom suppression and drag reduction. What remains to be seen , is, how is work allocated to these institutions in the best possible manner .

    Lt Gen Victor Bondarev had already stated in August 2012 that work on developing the PAK DA has started . Subsequently the RuAF announced that it had approved an early design of the PAK-DA and that industry could go ahead with adapting the design .
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:04 pm

    Perhaps any lower speed Pak Da can replace the Bears.
    We don't really know if its a subsonic, or a Mach 1.5 to 2.0 tops plane.

    Speed costs money and burns fuel and makes a plane bigger than it needs to be.

    Very high speed makes planes very expensive to buy and operate.

    Having said that a new type of engine can open options that were not previously even dreamed of.

    For instance a fully developed 5th gen version of the 25 ton thrust NK-32 that perhaps generates 30-35 tons of thrust starts to get interesting... the Tu-160 was developed during a period where long range low speed cruise and high dash speed required a swing wing as a solution. These days different wing shape options are now available so that the weight and complexity of swing wing is no longer needed.

    A ramjet is a hollow tube through which air passes... fuel is added and burned creating thrust. A scramjet is just the same thing but where the fuel is burned at supersonic speed so it can operate at very high flight speeds without sophisticated intakes that slow the incoming air to make it subsonic.

    Fitting a slightly enlarged Tu-160 with a fixed wing shape of a more sophisticated design with two NK-xxs with 35 tons thrust with the space between then used as scramjets able to operate at very high speed offering high thrust performance would be very interesting.

    The NK-xx engines would be used to get airborne and as the aircraft accelerates and climbs the scramjets can be started to boost power and speed.

    The main issue is that hypersonic speed would require brand new structure materials and surface skins that can resist high speed flight for very long periods.

    Personally I prefer the large flying wing with a horizontal tail surface... actually something that looks like the F-23 but with the cockpit pushed back to the wing... the wing greatly enlarged and the entire aircraft enlarged and the tail surface flattened so the whole aircraft is flat. Thrust vectoring would be used for stabilisation. The horizontal tail surface would allow supersonic flight as it needs an ability to shift its cg as it accelerates through the speed of sound.

    Could still have NK-xx engines and scramjet engines but instead of hypersonic speed I would go for supercruising at mach 2.2-2-6... this would allow the aircraft to move around rapidly... would make it rather difficult for current and planned aircraft to intercept it but not require exotic new materials.

    The aircrafts primary weapons will be very long range cruise missiles including stealthy ones and hypersonic models.

    Stealth of the bomber would not be critical as it is a stand off attack aircraft in the strategic role and would be supported in theatre missions by jammers and other platforms and could carry a very heavy guided bomb load over short distances with a reduced fuel load...

    This should result in a lower cost but still very viable bomber aircraft that could replace the Tu-95, Tu-160, Tu-22M3 and also the Tu-142 MPA... and if it has very very long range and can supercruise all that way at mach 2.6 then it could be used as a replacement for the Mig-31.

    It could even be considered as a commercial airliner for long range flights.

    Once hypersonic flight is perfected with cruise missiles then I would look at using such engines in bombers and fighters.

    Ofcourse it means Russia spending more on planes, but probably means it can spend less on subs, ships and ICMBs etc in this area.

    Hopefully having one type replacing a range of aircraft types they will actually be saving money rather than spending more.

    I wonder what could be done with an enlarged Pak Fa, with buddy refuelling, for rapid response long range attacks? (I know its payload would be relatively tiny.. but its stealth and its fast).

    Might be useful some time down the line as a Su-34 replacement would would hardly replace the Tu-22M3 let alone a real strategic aircraft.

    Keep in mind that the bomber is likely to get through because by the time it gets there all the SLBMS and ICBMs will already have smashed the enemy.

    The huge benefit of the bombers is that they can be used in conventional wars and can also be deployed but also called back so you can threaten by putting them on alert and even getting them into the air without actually committing to anything.

    Then the true Tu-160 replacement will be some sort of prompt global strike, hypersonic plane, which will be arriving later...?

    That could work too... perhaps the replacement for the Tu-160 is a big slow flying wing that can carry a huge hypersonic missile on its back that can fly 10,000km at mach 5.

    That will not happen because Russia is making efforts to restart production of the Tu-160's motors; a reworked version, the NK-32M, which will have a longer lifetime. A greatly improved gas generator has been bench tested successfully and production examples will be available by 2016 .

    I have said before this would be worth it... developing a new next gen bomber engine means they can upgrade their Tu-160s and Tu-22M3s and perhaps even fit two to their Bears if they wanted...

    Even just minor upgrades will improve performance of existing aircraft.
    Ogannisyan8887
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    Post  Ogannisyan8887 Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:25 am

    Possible PAK DA design


    http://paralay.com/t60/pakda226.jpg

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:05 am

    Ogannisyan8887 wrote:Possible PAK DA design


    http://paralay.com/t60/pakda226.jpg


    lol it's already similar enough to GazB's ideas

    Maybe the Russian design bureaus are reading this forum?? Question 
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:20 am

    Oh god please no.

    I can hear the "B-2 copy" whining already.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:43 am

    B-2ski.  Sad

    Just a boring subsonic flying wing with engines half sticking out because it seems Russians are too stupid to mount them internally...

    This very amaturish modification of that boring flying wing with winglets is my best attempt at describing what I would like to see... a flying wing with the butterfly tail of the YF-23...

    The tail surface would allow the cg of the aircraft to be maintained as it passes through transonic flight to supersonic speeds... a supercruising stealthy bomber is rather more appealing than a boring subsonic one.

    Note to make it supersonic the wing sweep angle will likely need increasing.. I didn't bother with that...

    PAK-DA: News - Page 6 Top10

    By adding a tail area you greatly increase the internal volume for fuel and internal weapons as the engines are shifted well back.

    Note also to be realistic the main undercarriage would need to be shifted well back too.

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