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    Russia - USA Relations

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:18 am

    What can Russia do to reduce US spying on it's citizens? Block facebook? Even in vkontakte Russian soldiers are posting pictures with T-90 tanks, military bases, other sensitive information and nothing can be done about it.
    Well I guess now US is not so different from USSR after all when it comes to spying on own their people and allies. That's what You get when You have 1 super power in the world - greed and need of control, total dominance. And to be Americas friend means nothing now. Pretty much what my people know from 1944.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:58 pm

    In India the MOD has banned Armed Forces personal from posting personal details , squadron unit information and even personal photos of them on FB as some time back a lot of pictures of Air Force personal and other armed forces personal were seen on FB.

    See no reason why Russian MOD can come up with similar order to prevent known personal details etc.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:29 pm

    Venezuela granted Snowden asylum and If you wonder how in the hell is he going to get there - dont. Rocket cruiser Moskva is scheduled on a trip to Venezuela soon Very Happy 

    Nicaragua also granted asylum to Snowden probably all of those states decided so irritated by the Morales jet searching.

    Also EU showed hypocrisy by not allowing asylum to Snowden after it was revealed that whole EU is spied by US.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:46 am

    Also EU showed hypocrisy by not allowing asylum to Snowden after it was revealed that whole EU is spied by US.

    Yeah... you are told about a friend cheating on you and your reaction is to help your supposed friend get his hands on the person who told you about their bad behaviour... classic western hipocracy.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:22 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Also EU showed hypocrisy by not allowing asylum to Snowden after it was revealed that whole EU is spied by US.

    Yeah... you are told about a friend cheating on you and your reaction is to help your supposed friend get his hands on the person who told you about their bad behaviour... classic western hipocracy.
    It's more to do with US pressure. America is cool about Europe, preaching about how we are allies and that we are democracies, but god forbid do something that is against Us interest and they will squeeze You by the balls. This all sad thing shows how deep US influence over Europe. And for me it's scary. It's like marriage when wife is being beaten by husband and she still says that she loves him.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:40 am

    Or indeed a husband that sleeps with anything with two legs but the instant he finds his wife is having an affair he wants a divorce...

    Like I said... a hypocrite... one standard for the US and one for everyone else.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:20 pm

    Who can eat this crap.

    “For me, there is absolutely no comparison between the Stasi and the work of intelligence agencies in democratic states,” Merkel said to German weekly Die Zeit. “They are two completely different things and such comparisons only lead to a trivialization of what the Stasi did to [East Germany’s] people.”

    LINK

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:56 am

    Holy crap!!Shocked Shocked 
    Among the discoveries made by the latest Snowden leaks, Guardian journalists say that Microsoft specifically aided the NSA in circumventing encrypted chat messages sent over the Outlook.com portal before the product was even launched to the public.

    “The files show that the NSA became concerned about the interception of encrypted chats on Microsoft's Outlook.com portal from the moment the company began testing the service in July last year,” they wrote. “Within five months, the documents explain, Microsoft and the FBI had come up with a solution that allowed the NSA to circumvent encryption on Outlook.com chats.”

    According to internal documents cited by the journalists, Microsoft “developed a surveillance capability” that was launched “to deal" with the feds’ concerns that they’d be unable to wiretap encrypted communications conducted over the Web in real time.

    "These solutions were successfully tested and went live 12 Dec 2012,” the memo claims, two months before the Outlook.com portal was officially launched.
    Link

    O.k lady's and gentlemen we must assume the worst.affraid No

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:22 am

    Glad I don't buy any Microsoft products Wink

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:20 am

    Since Internet is USA and NSA is USA we must assume all packets that flow through cables are no more safe from NSA prying eyes.

    If we leave aside the scandal the kind of capability that NSA possess are simply phenomenal , probably no other agency comes close to what NSA can do with global communication.

    NSA is an organisation that draws all Intel organisation in USA including CIA and DIA both in budget and capability.

    So there is news now that Russian are going back to good old typewriter .....i would guess we might have to go back to typewriter , pigeon and paper days to save ourself from NSA.

    Most computer big names are US companies and all are tied up with NSA Laughing 

    I am waiting for Snowden revelation on CISCO which is virtually the backbone for Networking over internet

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:56 am

    Of course you have to ask what the value of information you can hear when all parties know you are listening...

    Part of my conclusion to my paper on Echelon is that most people don't care. They really don't understand the level of violation of their privacy this entails and they feel they have not done anything wrong and therefore have nothing to worry about.

    Of course they ignore the incompetence of a government department, and the power of a marketing agency with lots of good information about its potential clients... including private information like how much you earned and how much you claimed on your last income tax refund. How often you spend money and where is recorded by your cards... you can make a pretty concise profile of a person based on this sort of information.... but the problem is that at the end of the day they say this is for catching drug dealers, kiddy fiddlers, and terrorists and they need to be able to catch them right?

    The thing is that they are just as likely to misuse this information...Echelon has been in place for decades yet when France plotted to blow up a ship in New Zealands largest harbour the Americans decided not to give us any warning. The data collection equipment is in various states including NZ but all the data is beamed directly to the US for processing and any information they decide is relevant to us we get... likely with anything that might incriminate them or step on their interests removed. In the case of France wanting revenge over NZ support for a nuclear free pacific the very pro nuclear US told us nothing. But the fear of being out of the loop keeps out government on side... and general public ignorance... well now it is not ignorance... it is indifference, means there will be lots of talk but very little action or reaction to this and the guilty parties will not only go unpunished but they will also continue breaking the law.

    Laws being broken, mind you, not in the interests of justice or democracy or world peace... in the interests of the wealth and power of the US.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:30 am

    Ofcourse NSA intercept serves a far greater purpose then tracking terrorist , smugglers etc since the entire data is sucked up it pretty much suck up most of the million communication data for finding few 10's of data on these terrorist etc.

    Most data is likely used for Business Intelligence by NSA to aid their MNC so called gathering confidential information from rival to aid American business.

    The other types is to gather strategic and geo-political intelligence on friends and rivals to keep a tab on friends and to pre-empt the rival from making gains.

    The remaining data would just serve to keep tab on NGO , anti-estsblishment people , Journalist , Intellecutals etc and cultivate them for pro-American interest.

    It is not a co-incidence when the Indian PM said openly that the Kudakulum Nuclear protest in India on the site where Russian reactors are built were funded by US NGO in a move to sabotage and delay the commissioning of the Russian reactors.

    Since India was 5th in the list to be most snooped.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:36 am

    I think what would really matter is how good NSA is in breaking encryption algo of Government Communication like says Russian government.

    We know that Medvedev communication was intercepted by NSA during G-20 submit but did they manage to decrypt it or decrupt in real time to be really useful ? Or what Medvedev communication was non-encrypted so it was just a matter to snooping in on the frequency.

    Ofcourse if these people use Windows or Applications or Security tools developed in US we can be dead sure that the encryption key is with the NSA.


    Our Foreign Minister being the Moron that he is says the snooping by NSA is beneficial as it helps find terrorist , Reason David Headley being a Double Agent of US was never told to us by US and reason not a single big attack planned by Pakistani Terrorist was ever got intercepted in advance by India/US to prevent it Sad 

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:03 pm

    Austin wrote:I think what would really matter is how good NSA is in breaking encryption algo of Government Communication like says Russian government.

    We know that Medvedev communication was intercepted by NSA during G-20 submit but did they manage to decrypt it or decrupt in real time to be really useful ? Or what Medvedev communication was non-encrypted so it was just a matter to snooping in on the frequency.

    Ofcourse if these people use Windows or Applications or Security tools developed in US we can be dead sure that the encryption key is with the NSA.


    Our Foreign Minister being the Moron that he is says the snooping by NSA is beneficial as it helps find terrorist  , Reason David Headley being a Double Agent of US was never told to us by US and reason not a single big attack planned by Pakistani Terrorist was ever got intercepted in advance by India/US to prevent it Sad 

    When you have an Italian woman running things even though she isn't the president (only head of the party), and pretty much tells Mahmood Singh what to do, I can see why Indian politics could very well cater to the US, even if it isn't in your countries best interest.

    I would say, why the hell are they allowing their comm systems to be snooped? If they are using windows, someone should smack the person in charge of the communication structure in Russia. There is a reason why they have their own Linux OS, MSMS, as it could very well prevent the use of commonality that the Windows kernals have, that would allow NSA to snoop on them. As well, I sure hope they are not using CISCO or Huawii or whatever routers/switches either. I know of some companies in Russia who do make switches of their own, so I hope they use those in order to prevent outsiders from intruding their comm structure.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:17 pm

    Funny thing is Indian Airforce new C4I3 system called AFNET relies on CISCO and many vendors
    http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=693464

    The AFNET project was ably supported by BSNL, HCL Infosystems and CISCO. HCL's chairman Ajay Chaudhary and CISCO's country head Naresh Wadhwa were also present on the occasion.

    Think CISCO Switches has the following functionality

    AFNET project, with an estimated expenditure of Rs 1,077 crore, comprised Internet Protocol (IP) Multi Protocol Switching Protocol (MPLS) based Network with Optic Fibre Cables (OFC) as backbone.

    A comprehensive design with multi-layer security precautions for 'Defence in Depth' have been planned by incorporating encryption technologies, Intrusion Prevention Systems to ensure the resistance of the IT system against information manipulation and eavesdropping Laughing Razz 


    I have worked with few Indian OEM they are pretty much clue less as far as security goes , if you tell them MS or CISCO tells you update patches or Firmware or BIOS to fix security they would happily oblige

    Considering these Firmware/BIOS and MS like Security Fixes are binaries and are black holes , god only know what they fix or what kind of back door they open Laughing Twisted Evil 

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:57 am

    Or temporarily close for security testing and then open again...


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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:25 am

    Problem is, there are too many systems that are interconnected on an open network.  If they had a closed network where they could very well use commercial products, but it is not connected in a means of being broadcasted over the internet, then I do not see a problem in using them.  But using them in integral means for interconnection, that is stupid.

    Intranet, fine. Internet? No.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:00 am

    Greenwald: Snowden has enough information to cause US govt ‘worst damage in history’

    “Snowden has enough information to cause more damage to the US government in a minute alone than anyone else has ever had in the history of the United States,” Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian journalist responsible for publishing some of Snowden’s first leaks, told Argentina-based newspaper La Nación.

    “But that's not his goal. His objective is to expose software that people around the world use without knowing what they are exposing themselves to, without consciously agreeing to surrender their rights to privacy. He has a huge number of documents that would be very harmful to the US government if they were made public,” Greenwald said.

    The US government should be on its knees every day begging that nothing happen to Snowden, because if something does happen to him, all the information will be revealed and it could be its worst nightmare,” he said.

    When asked whether he believed that someone would attempt to harm or kill the whistleblower, he said that Snowden has “already distributed thousands of documents and made sure that several people around the world have their entire file,” stating that it would be beneficial for anyone to attempt assassination.

    “If something happens, all the information will be revealed, and that would be [America’s] worst nightmare,” he said.



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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:01 am

    Snowden is indeed a hero for citizen of the world , exposing the darkest secret of the digital word that was causing public harm.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:18 am

    Austin wrote:Snowden is indeed a hero for citizen of the world , exposing the darkest secret of the digital word that was causing public harm.

    I agree. Snowden is a hero. Implications of his revelation will have impact of an nuclear weapon and the radius of destruction will be whole Earth. The best things however have jet to come.

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    Russia-US Relations

    Post  Austin on Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:57 am

    To start with a nice interview with Professor Stephen Cohen on the status of Russia-US Relations

    'Obama can't afford a fair trial for Snowden' - Stephen Cohen


    Last edited by Austin on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:05 am

    Who’s Edward Snowden more of a problem for now, Russia or the US? Has he sent US-Russian relations into a tailspin or did he just reaffirm the sad state of affairs? Is the 'Russian Reset' dead?

    Today we discuss the fallout from the Snowden case with Stephen Cohen, Professor of Russian Studies and History at New York University and Princeton University.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: At this point, to whom is Snowden more of a problem – the US or Russia?

    Steven Cohen: From my perspective, he is a problem for both. If we put this in historical context since the end of the Soviet Union 22 years ago, we’ve lost several opportunities to create a meaning for cooperative relationships between Washington and Moscow. It appeared a few weeks ago that we had another opportunity. The opportunity began with a tragedy - the bombings in Boston. It was later clear that there was a need for a lot of cooperation in counter-terrorism between Moscow and Washington. And then, the Syrian civil war, whatever it is, ran out of control – it’s certainly the worst crisis in the Middle East for many years. It also appeared that Washington and Moscow were ready to do something about it. And then came Snowden. Not only Snowden, but he is clearly a setback -I would say both for President Putin and President Obama.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: But you say that Putin is handling the Snowden situation wisely…

    Steven Cohen: What makes us really interested is that President Putin is the man that likes to control the environment in which he makes international - and I suppose domestic - decisions. He couldn’t control this. Snowden came literally out of the blue and he hadn’t decided what to do. So he was caught and he remains caught between two strong countervailing factors: On the one hand, Putin pursues in a world which I would call not an ANTI-American foreign policy, but an UN-American foreign policy or a NON-American foreign policy. That is, a foreign policy rather different from the US in many areas. Therefore, he could not turn in Snowden - a highly symbolic figure - over to the US. On the other hand, it’s absolutely clear that Putin wants some kind of cooperative relationship with the US. I think he has probably done as good as he can do. As in, the solution is to allow Snowden to remain in Russia in some status of temporary asylum, while he sorts out how he’s going to go to a third country - Venezuela or some other place. That’s a legal issue. He needs travel documents, and he probably has to go to the embassy of that country in Moscow. But although it’s legal, it’s profoundly political. In a way, Russian-American relationships hinge on that at the moment. And as I said the other day to an American who asked me, this tests the leadership ability not only of Putin, but of Obama, to solve this problem.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: You’ve brought up an interesting point – saying that Putin likes to control the situation. Do you think he would have acted differently if he wasn’t confronted with the sheer fact of Snowden being in Russia?

    Steven Cohen: I mean, all leaders - real leaders, state leaders - try to control the environment in which they make decisions. Very often, they can’t. Wars come, acts of terrorism come, and leaders change in other countries with which they were doing business. What we don’t know about Snowden affair is whether or not the Chinese, when they allowed Snowden to fly to Moscow from Hong Kong, cleared it with the Russian end. Whether the Russians said, “Okay, send him along.” If that happened - and we don’t know, but I would guess it did because the Chinese-Russian relationship is very important and very close at the moment - I would assume that whoever in Moscow made that decision - it might not have been President Putin; he can’t make every decision before it becomes a crisis – they may have assumed that in fact Snowden was going to do as Snowden was going to do – spend maybe ten hours in the transit section of Sheremetyevo airport and then get on a plane to Havana, and onwards, as he thought, to Ecuador. And then, a problem rose with Ecuador and he is still in Moscow. So in that sense, we don’t know if Putin said “Ok, travel through Moscow,” not knowing he was going to become a kind of resident in Moscow. We just don’t know that.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: Another problem is that his passport was cancelled so he couldn’t really fly through Moscow even if he wanted to. But given the way things are right now, what does Russia risk if it grants Snowden official refugee status?

    Steven Cohen: As you know, there is a very strong anti-Kremlin, anti-Putin, anti-Russian lobby in Washington. Its citadel is the US Congress. That’s why we get preposterous legislation like the Magnitsky act. Congress is prepared to do anything to strike at Russia. Yesterday, for example, one of the senators proposed that the US boycott the Winter Olympics in Russia in 2014 – that won’t happen – but the mere fact that the US senator, who is supposed to be a person of wisdom and dignity, would propose such a preposterous thing shows you what kind of Congress we are dealing with. I predict - and I think any idiot could predict - that when, and I assume it’s “when” Snowden gets his temporary asylum in Moscow, the members of Congress, members of the various anti-Russian lobbies like Freedom House in the US, and many others will denounce the Kremlin and demand that Obama does something very bad to Russia. And then Obama will be tested – we will see if he can withstand that or not. That’s why I say by the way, that I think it’s is a kind of test - not only of the wisdom and the leadership of Putin - but the wisdom and the leadership of Obama. Let me remind you, Obama didn’t ask for this Snowden crisis. Putin didn’t ask for it. They just got it.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: The media right now is more focused on Snowden’s personal life - what he eats, what he wears, where he lives, where his girlfriend is – than his revelations and the leaks. Can we expect the attention to turn back to the NSA and PRISM, or is that issue now buried under the Snowden narrative?

    Steven Cohen: You raised what for me is the fundamental question: What should we, the Americans, be doing now? Ever since Snowden made these revelations, there’s been a big open, public debate about whether or not we approve of these massive, intrusive surveillance programs by American intelligence agencies. And of course, Europe and Russia and other countries who had been survellied have to make that decision too. But first and foremost, this is the question for Americans: Is it compatible with our concept of democracy? Of civil liberties? Of privacy? Or, on the other hand, do we need these kinds of abuses of civil liberties to protect ourselves against terrorism? There are two sides of this issue. It’s a complicated issue. Snowden wanted to trigger a debate and he has failed, because as you say, the drama of the personal saga of Edward Snowden – what’s going to happen to him, where he is going to go, where his girlfriend is, he looked so young – all these personal dramas [have taken the spotlight]. And I would guess that Snowden, who seems to be a very serious and purposeful man, is himself disappointed – because his purpose, as he says, and I believe him, in making these revelations is making a conversation in the US about these surveillance practices, which, because of his own drama, hasn’t happened yet – and it may never happen. And Sophie, let me add a matter that is absolutely never discussed in the US, but it’s profound: Obama says, the US government says, the Senators say, the Media says, “Showden should come home and stand trial.” Well, in some ways, if he could get a fair trial, if he could be out on bail - the way Daniel Elsberg was 30 years ago when he took the Pentagon papes - while he is preparing his trial, and he could tell a story, and he could build a legal team, and he could have an open-court case with all the rights the defendants have, that means that he could have all sorts of officials involved with this case, right up to the vice president and the president of the US. I cannot imagine that the Obama administration or any US administration would permit that, therefore I doubt very seriously that Obama is sincere when he says that Showden should come home and stand trial. But I would guess that if Snowden was given these guarantees - of being out of prison and on bail and free to have an open trial - he might come home. But he is not going to get those guarantees, I would guess, because we live in a different era, here in America too.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: I want to talk a little bit more about what has changed, whether the whole NSA leaks have changed the American society. Because if you talk about me and people around me, who have a post-Soviet hangover or had a Soviet childhood…these revelations weren’t life changing for us, because we suspected surveillance in some form or another. Many RT viewers are strongly against any form of surveillance, but still, I know a lot of Americans that are around and they are not saying “Hey, at this point – we’re done with the government.” For example, Larry King, he told me that he is actually siding with the government on surveillance. What do you see around you – are the people still shocked, or they are digesting and accepting it in the name of the War on Terror?

    Steven Cohen: I understand what you are saying about your Russian colleagues - surveillance is a problem in Russia too and it has been a problem for decades. And there is a debate in the Russian media whether the FSB - the Russian intelligence agency - is doing too much or too little. And let’s be fair, people in Russia and in the US are afraid of terrorism. If you asked me, would I allow the US government to listen to my phone calls and read my email if they are going to prevent my children from being killed in a terrorist explosion in New York City where I live, I would undoubtedly say,“Yes.” I’ll just be a little more careful in what I say on the phone and what I write in the email. But this is a major question, and times have changed. I’m old enough to remember the Osborne case, when he took the Pentagon papers which documented the Pentagon and White House line about the war in Vietnam, and then the New York Times published them. Then they were published very quickly as a book, and Elsberg was on the radio, and on television as it existed then. He was out on bail and famous lawyers came to defend him. And in the end, he was exonerated in a way. He won in the courts. That America doesn’t exist anymore - partly because of what happened in 9/11, and partly because we fought so many wars. Many Americans are afraid and we have become more accustomed, decade by decade, to this kind of surveillance. So the question that Snowden raised is, “Should we become accustomed to it? Is this really a trade-off between our fears and our privacy that we want to make?” But I agree with you, the polls have shown – I don’t remember the last number that the polls revealed - but about half of Americans or even more were okay with what the government was doing. But Sophie, you know as well as I do that when you take a public opinion poll, you can give the answer you want by the way you ask the question. If you say in general to Americans – are you prepared to give up all your freedoms that Americans have fought for, for 200 years, and allow the government to do this kind of possibly illegal surveillance, a majority would say “No.” But if you ask people, “Are you prepared to permit this surveillance so that you and your children are safe?,” the majority is going to say “Yes.” It’s just in how you ask the question and you can’t ask the question until you’ve had a national discussion - which we haven’t had and which the government doesn’t want – but what Snowden wanted. But again, until Snowden’s personal drama ends, or at least calms down and moves off the front page, we’re not going to have that discussion in our country. And even then, we may not have it because the government doesn’t want it.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: Welcome back to the show. We’re talking about Snowden and how his Moscow detour can affect the already shaken relationship between Russia and the US. Our guest is Steven Cohen, professor of Russian Studies and History. Good to have you back, Steven. So, in your latest opinion editorials, you keep saying that Russia and the US are at a hateful crossroads. Is Snowden’s case icing on the cake? Could things get really bad after this?

    Steven Cohen: I have a historical perspective. Let me state it again, 22 years after the end of the Soviet Union. We do not have a good relationship with Russia. Nobody asks why. Rather, in the US, when people are asked “Why,” they will say it’s the fault of Russia. Now they say it’s the fault of Putin. But that is not correct and certainly not a complete answer. We had several opportunities to establish partnership with Russia in international affairs. The first came in the 1990s after the end of the Soviet Union, and Clinton with Yeltsin war-set opportunities. The second opportunity came after 9/11, when Putin called President George Bush and said “We are with you, what can we do to help the US which has been attacked by terrorism? We’re partners.” That opportunity was lost. Then came Obama’s so-called “Reset” with then President Medvedev, and that opportunity was lost. Now, the tragic bombings in Boston and the tragic civil war in Syria have shown Washington and Moscow that we need a cooperative relationship and that created yet another opportunity. It’s not clear whether we will seize the opportunity with Snowden... the Magnitsky act and other events…have become obstacles on both sides to seizing these opportunities. The larger reason in my opinion - which is a minority opinion in America - is that my generation knew as the Cold War between the Soviet Union and the US either didn’t actually end with the Soviet Union, or it’s come alive again. Because everything we’ve seen between Russia and America since the end of the Soviet Union looks, smells, and behaves like a Cold War relationship. It’s just that in the US, our leaders don’t want to accept this failure - that they lost an opportunity in post-Cold War Russia to create a new relationship, a partnership with Russia. And that’s where we are today. So it’s a long way to answer, but I think that historians will tell you in the future - and as a historian today, I would tell you - that we can’t understand Snowden. We can’t understand Magnitsky. We can’t understand these recent conflicts without putting them into historical context of a relationship between America and post-Soviet Russia during the last 22 years. This is a narrative that hasn’t stopped.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: You just demonstrated that obstacles or opportunities to get two countries closer or get them more apart arise all the time – and these talks of the Cold War have been around forever, or in the past 15 years. You seem to be pointing out that we are now at a hateful crossroads. How much worse are things are now than they were in the Bush Era? Because it seemed like they were at the lowest then.

    Steven Cohen: The low point of the relationship since the end of the Soviet Union was of course the war with Georgia in 2008. And the reason that that was a low point is that the US and Russia came close to hot war, not just Cold War. Georgia began the war, no doubt about that. Russia reacted by moving into South Ossetia. It began the fight with the Georgian army which was, in effect, an American proxy army. We created that army. We armed it. We trained it. There were American military advisors somewhere in the Georgia, traveling with the Georgian troops. There was a discussion at the White House, led by Dick Cheney, that the US should bomb the Russian army in South Ossetia.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: But no one stood up for the Georgian army there because no one really wants to wage a war with Russia. That’s another example of how America and Russia would never actually go to war…

    Steven Cohen: I don’t know about that, Sophie. Where is that written, that we would never go to war? We were extremely close in the Cuban Missile crisis, we were extremely close in Berlin on a number of occasions. There were probably occasions that we haven’t been told about, and in my judgment we were close in Georgia in 2008. No fault of Russia – but how many times can we avoid these dangerous possibilities? My point is, it’s the duty of leadership – American leadership and Russian leadership - to create a relationship where these dangers don’t appear. And we haven’t done that yet. And I will say as an American patriot, the primary fault – not the entire fault – but the primary fault is in Washington. Until American policy toward Russia changes, things will not get better. And American policy toward Russia hasn’t changed on one fundamental issue: Washington believes in what it calls “selective cooperation,” which means Russia should make concessions but Washington does not have to make concessions in return. Until that policy changes, nothing else will change. I am absolutely sure about that.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: Does that mean that they don’t want a better relationship with Russia? They simply don’t care enough to ameliorate their relationship with Russia? Things are good as they are?

    Steven Cohen: The American political policy media establishment wants a good relationship with Russia once it’s on America’s own terms. And it’s very clear what that means, because it has meant the same thing since the Soviet Union – Russia should be a junior and subservient partner to American interests. Whatever is in the American interest, Russia should help promote. So, if America decides to expand NATO to Russia’s borders, Russia should accept this as a very good idea to its own security. If America decides to build missile installations in Europe or on ships that threaten Russia’s nuclear security, Russia should understand that that’s really against North Korea or Iran, and it doesn’t affect Russia. If the US believes that the overthrow of Assad in Syria will bring peace to the Middle East, Russia should agree. The problem is, Russia doesn’t agree. Russia is a different civilization, but the bad precedent was set – I don’t like to criticize your leaders because it’s your problems -by Yeltsin, who agreed almost on everything. And so Washington got into a habit of getting what it wanted. But even ambassador McFaul has said on a several occasions during the “reset” which he claims he invented, “We’re going to negotiate with Moscow, and see what they can do to promote our national interests.” Fine – but that’s one hand clapping. A real negotiation, real diplomacy, is not that. It is that we go to Moscow and say “Here are our interests, will you help us?” And then Moscow says, “We might. Here are our interests. Will you help us?” And then they do something for each other. Washington doesn’t do anything. I would defy anybody who thinks I’m being unpatriotic –just tell me one major concession that Moscow has received from Washington since the end of the Soviet Union? Just one? And when I ask this question, at all just, leading places of the American establishment, I do get one answer: “We gave them financial loans in the 1990s.” Yeah, they were onerous loans which only Putin, because of high oil prices, could finally pay back. Although Washington forgave Poland’s communist-era debt, it never forgave any of Moscow’s debts. We have never given Russia anything. By the way, Putin says that over and over and over again, and Washington says, “Why is he so anti-American? “ He is not anti-American, he just made a very simple point that any major leader would make – that a relationship is a two-way relationship: We give something to you, you give something to us, and we go forward and solve problems. We don’t have that relationship and we haven’t had it since the Soviet Union ended. We had it with the Soviet Union, but that’s another story.

    Sophie Shevardnadze: The “Reset” idea – is it all forgotten and dead now?


    Steven Cohen: In America, it’s something that Obama’s enemies use to show how unwise he is and say it failed. The reality is that Obama got what he wanted from the “Reset” – he got Russian help in supplying NATO forces in Afghanistan. He got tougher sanctions against Iran. He got Moscow’s cancellation of the C-300 defense system, I think. The problem is, once again…what did Moscow get in return? Nothing. They wanted a compromise on missile defense. They wanted the end of NATO expansion and an end to American democracy promotion in Russia. But Washington refused. So the “Reset” failed, Washington got what it wanted, and now we are starting all over again…The new détente – we used to call it “détente” during the Cold War – is going to fail unless American policy changes. It’s a sad story, but it’s a true story.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:22 am

    Assange interview: ‘Prism is beyond the worst nightmares of Orwell’

    Julian Assange, the co-founder of the famous WikiLeaks website that exposed war crimes committed by US troops in Iraq, has talked about his worst disappointments, US total surveillance and the future of NSA leaker Edward Snowden in an interview to the UK’s Daily Mail.

    The whistleblower said his biggest achievement was “going head to head with the US State Department, the Pentagon, the White House, the FBI and CIA and winning.” “WikiLeaks hasn’t destroyed any of its publications or stopped publishing as they demanded. In terms of results, helping move the internet from a politically apathetic space to a politically engaged one,” he confessed.

    Mr. Assange also said that some media were circulating libel against him. Among others, he was called a CIA spy, a Mossad agent, a Hezbollah catspaw, an agent of George Soros, and…even a cat-torturer. “A book claimed I was so mean to someone's pet cat when I visited their flat that I induced feline psychosis,” he told the Daily Mail.

    Speaking about US secret surveillance program Prism and the CIA man who revealed it, the top WikiLeaker said he believed it to be another proof of the Western world’s transition to a surveillance dystopia.

    “Prism is beyond the worst nightmares of Orwell and the greatest fantasies of the Stasi. Obama has taken on what Bush began and decided to ‘do it properly’. Snowden is a hero who stands accused of everything from spying for the Chinese to being rude to his neighbours,” he concluded.

    The WikiLeak’s co-founder is accused by Sweden of sexual assault and harassment he allegedly committed in 2010. The UK government officially intends to extradite him to Sweden, which is easier said than done because the 41-year-old has taken cover at the Ecuadorian embassy in London and has been given political asylum.

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:24 am

    Snowden sparks NSA overhaul: Sensitive data to be treated like nuclear weapons

    Kerry vows to put the screws to Venezuela over Snowden – report

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:13 am

    here comes sanction threat on Russia

    Senate threatens to sanction countries that aid Snowden

    The Senate Appropriations Committee said Thursday that they want the Department of State to consider imposing sanctions on any nation willing to assist NSA leaker Edward Snowden.

    A hearing held by the 30 member, bi-partisan Senate committee Thursday afternoon in Washington ended with a unanimous decision by way of voice vote to move towards sanctioning countries coming to the aid of the former intelligence analyst.

    The bill’s author, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina), told the committee, “I don’t know if he’s going to stay in Russia forever. I don’t know where he’s going to go . . . But I know this: That the right thing to do is to send him back home so he can face charges for the crimes he’s allegedly committed.”

    Sen. Graham previously demanded Russia remove Snowden from the country and suggested the US boycott the Sochi Olympics if Pres. Vladimir Putin agrees to keep Snowden safe from the reach of American authorities. Last month Graham called the ordeal “an important test of the ‘reset’ in relations between our two countries,” and said, “If our two nations are to have a constructive relationship moving forward, Russian cooperation in this matter is essential.”

    "On multiple fronts, Russia is becoming one of the bad actors in the world," Graham said previously. "Russia continues to provide cover to the Iranian nuclear program and sell sophisticated weapons to the Assad regime in Syria to butcher tens of thousands of its own citizens. For Russia to grant temporary asylum to Mr. Snowden on top of all this would do serious damage to our relationship. It is past time we send a strong message to President Putin about Russia's actions and this resolution will help accomplish that goal."

    Speaking to the Senate committee on Thursday, Graham added, “When it comes to Russia, it's just not about Snowden.”

    “They are allying with Iran, 100,000 Syrians have been killed, they are providing weapons to Assad that are getting in the hands of Hezbollah. And really enough's enough,” the senator said of Russia.

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