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    Russia - USA Relations

    MiamiMachineShop
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    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Wed May 08, 2019 5:34 pm

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/07/us-ambassador-ukraine-is-recalled-after-becoming-political-target/?utm_term=.94c2c7ed87a3

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/joe-biden-ukraine-controversy.html

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/what-does-the-early-dismissal-of-the-us-ambassador-to-ukraine-mean/

    I said we wanted Russia to have Ukraine and to have better USA-Russia relations, I meant it. We are restoring relations with Russia, we will give the heads of Poroshenko and nazis to Russia, we will leave Ukraine, and we will have the democrats all arrested, in exchange for Russian cooperation with China and others. Russia will make an overture to us for this, They want nothing more than to punish Ukraine and return it to its fold, not be a pawn of China in some SCO silk road project. Putin also desires this, you think he wanted to be junior partner with China? He said Vladivostok to Lisbon, not Beijing-Lisbon. Putin thought he could deal with Europeans but the spineless slaves only obeyed our democrats and spited Russia.

    Putin dreams of EAEU, not SCO. EAEU is Russian led, not Chinese. We offer him the way out. This is real-politik. Not fanciful wishes of some leftists or Chinese businessmen, and European nationalists that dream of regaining power. Putin accepted junior status because he had no choice. Now we offer him a way to be #1. USA-Russia

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed May 08, 2019 6:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:He ordered the bombing of Iraq, but not the invasion of Iraq.

    He ordered the isolation and sanctions on Iraq that probably killed a lot of kids, and he called on the Shia majority in Iraq to rise up against the Sunni minority in control, but didn't support them and they got hammered by Saddam... but that was because he realised that if Saddam is gone in Iraq then Iran would gain a lot of influence in the region... something later US presidents forgot... with the result that now Iran is in a much better position in the ME than ever before... which is what has Saudi Arabia so scared and doing stupid things too.

    Funny that the west is very selective about who it forgives... seems to have totally forgiven Germany and Japan, but not Russia... yet it has forgiven other components of the Soviet Union.

    The US got support from Russian at various times through Americas history, yet during the Russian revolution the US and its western allies chose to interfere... I don't remember Russian forces fighting in the US civil war, but there were US forces camped in Siberia for quite a few years.

    The only thing I can say is that in public it was all about peace keeping and the commander in charge of the forces there took that role literally and so did not interfere as much as western politicians secretly wanted him to.

    You make it sound like Russia was allied with Germany and Japan. It was the USSR and it was not at war with the precious hyena pack
    called the NATO west. The cold war was instigated by NATO, i.e. its master the USA, can hardly be compared to Germany and Japan
    aggression when it comes to the USSR. So NATO is in no position to demand any apologies from Russia or to "forgive" it. In fact,
    NATO is the pack of dogs that need to beg Russia for mercy. These vermin actually use the victimhood of Russians at the hands
    of the commies (the Gulags were filled with ethnic Russians and not just minorities as claimed by the BBC) to beat Russians over the
    head. I guess they should apply that tactic to Jews. Perhaps Jews need to ask forgiveness for the Holocaust. NATO propaganda and
    the retards that lap it up are a total freak show.

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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 09, 2019 2:35 am

    You make it sound like Russia was allied with Germany and Japan.

    Westerners would claim Russia (meaning the Soviets) were allied to Germany with their non aggression pact... but of course any examination of such a claim shows that to be bunk... why would allies need a non aggression pact?

    What I am saying is that the west treats the Russians like everything was their fault... that they were responsible for everything the Soviets did or didn't do... they have forgiven Germany and Japan, but not the Russians.

    It was the USSR and it was not at war with the precious hyena pack
    called the NATO west.

    I know.

    They made the same mistake with the Soviet Union after WWII that they made with Germany after WWI, but the Soviets actually fought on the allied side which makes it even more strange.

    The cold war was instigated by NATO, i.e. its master the USA, can hardly be compared to Germany and Japan
    aggression when it comes to the USSR. So NATO is in no position to demand any apologies from Russia or to "forgive" it. In fact,
    NATO is the pack of dogs that need to beg Russia for mercy. These vermin actually use the victimhood of Russians at the hands
    of the commies (the Gulags were filled with ethnic Russians and not just minorities as claimed by the BBC) to beat Russians over the
    head. I guess they should apply that tactic to Jews. Perhaps Jews need to ask forgiveness for the Holocaust. NATO propaganda and
    the retards that lap it up are a total freak show.

    You are not wrong.

    Blaming just the Russians for everything that was done by the Soviets is like blaming the Scottish for everything their former colony the US has done... but then the British have their own long list of crimes anyway.

    Equating the Russians to the Soviets is calling a Scotsman English... it is after all one country anyway isn't it... Twisted Evil

    Of calling someone from Peru American... I mean both continents and the central big joining them are all called America.

    Venezuela and Cuba and Nicaragua should form an alliance and call themselves the United States of America... but who wants that albatross on their shoulders...


    Putin dreams of EAEU, not SCO. EAEU is Russian led, not Chinese. We offer him the way out. This is real-politik. Not fanciful wishes of some leftists or Chinese businessmen, and European nationalists that dream of regaining power. Putin accepted junior status because he had no choice. Now we offer him a way to be #1. USA-Russia

    Interesting idea, Kissenger has been saying something similar for the last few years... flip the relationship... they used China to deal with the Soviets during the cold war and they should now use Russia to deal with China today... the problem is that Russia is not stupid and recognising when it is being used.

    Why would Russia want to help the US remain a hyper power, they are the enemy... both sides of US politics have identified Russia as the bad guy... you can't say anything bad about blacks or gays or jews, but you can say pretty much anything nasty you like about Russians and nobody gives a damn.

    The US is on a decline, why would Russia try to help them in their mad crusade against China?

    More specifically, China and Russia are neighbours... why would Russia want to change its relationship with China for the worse just to please the US... China and Russia have something like 100 billion dollars in trade and it is growing... the US is nothing compared with this and the EU used to be this but has reduced trade not increased it.

    Russia has invested a lot of money and time on the silk road initiatives, which are basically trade routes from Asia to the EU.

    Russia has everything to gain to be part of that, and nothing at all from being another stupid American stooge that does things for the US economy but not their own like Poland or now the Ukraine.

    The Northern Sea Route is going to be good for business for Russia... a lot of northern Russian ports will get a lot of trade and commercial activity because of this.

    Bad relations with China wont help Russia or China... it will only help the US... so why would the Russians be interested in that?
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Thu May 09, 2019 9:46 am

    In the civil war russian ships were based at San Francisco and New York (Boston?) and prevented an interference by british and french Forces on the side of the south.
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    Post  jhelb on Thu May 09, 2019 10:44 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Interesting idea, Kissenger has been saying something similar for the last few years... flip the relationship... they used China to deal with the Soviets during the cold war and they should now use Russia to deal with China today... the problem is that Russia is not stupid and recognising when it is being used.

    But now the US State Department is saying that China is the first major threat the US is facing that is not Caucasian.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/05/problematic-thinking-on-china-from-the-state-departments-head-of-policy-planning/

    So clearly the US is more focused on the rise of these non Caucasian powers - China, India, Iran etc.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 09, 2019 11:07 am

    The difference is that the Russians helped the American side that won, while the Americans supported the side that lost the Russian Civil war.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue May 21, 2019 5:55 pm

    https://russia-insider.com/en/russian-extradited-us-buying-unclassified-f-16-manual/ri27072

    The USA is an Orwellian toilet.

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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 22, 2019 5:11 am

    Says in the title, if the manual is unclassified then what is the problem?

    Another Russian about to learn to love the US.... making the world hate it one person at a time... it has a lot of propaganda to undo... but it is working on it.
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    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:36 pm



    It turns out that Butina did not confess to enough Russian meddling in the 2016 US elections. So America
    has put Russians it claims "skewed the 2016 election" on the Interpol red list, reserved for terrorist and
    mass murderers. This is a clear kidnapping operation to subsequently coerce 1984 style "confessions"
    via torture (physical and psychological).

    The US is a rogue regime which engages in banditry (e.g. stealing of Syrian oil and supporting terrorists
    like Al Qaeda and ISIS for regime change in the name of economic gain) and gross human rights abuse
    (Butina, future kidnap victims).

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:06 am

    Desperate measures from a collapsing empire that knows it is falling and really doesn't know how to stop it so it is lashing out at anyone and everyone who might end up replacing them.

    Thing is that no one wants to replace them... China and Russia have not shown any interest in becoming the worlds new policeman... or should I say head lynch man.
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    Post  franco on Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:54 pm

    Forbes named five reasons why the US will lose the war with Russia

    US Army strategists believe a clash with a “practically equal” rival could happen over the next five years. By this wording they mean Russia, which is rapidly modernizing its armed forces, writes Loren Thompson, executive director of the Lexington Institute, in a column for Forbes magazine, RIA Novosti reports.

    The expert suggests that a hypothetical war with Russia will be tied to the fastest possible advance of ground forces across vast spaces. A defeat in such a conflict will radically change the geopolitical balance in Europe and reduce US influence to the minimum since the beginning of World War II. And defeat is by far the most likely outcome, says Thompson.

    A disappointing forecast for America is associated with several factors: these are the strategic miscalculations of previous presidents - George W. Bush and Barack Obama - and the lack of funding for the armed forces. According to the analyst, the mistake of Bush Jr. is related to the withdrawal of two American heavy brigades from Europe, and Obama’s miscalculation lies in betting on the Asia-Pacific region, the echo of which was the reduction in the US military presence in the Old World.

    Lauren Thompson complains that the US Army does not receive sufficient funding, especially when comparing modernization programs with Russian ones. US forces annually receive $ 22 billion from the federal budget for new weapons, while Russia has launched a ten-year rearmament program with a budget of $ 700 billion, and most of the funds, according to Thompson, will go to the development of ground forces and aviation.

    The above factors make the analyst think that the American army is likely to lose the “European war”, and Lauren Thompson formulates five arguments in favor of his thesis.
    Russia has a geographical advantage, the expert notes. The battles will take place on the territories of Eastern Europe, which are further from the main landing points of the American contingent in Europe. In addition, this part of the Old World is washed by seas, which can only be entered through narrow straits, which Russia can easily control.

    In addition, the US Army is depressingly unprepared for such a conflict, Thompson adds. In Europe, the United States had only two stationary brigades, a light airborne unit and a cavalry regiment armed with armored Strykers. If there is no gain, Russia will simply crush these troops, notes the Forbes columnist.

    Recently, the White House decided to deploy the third rotation brigade in Europe, along with this it was decided to send a thousand soldiers to Poland and to each of the Baltic countries, but this will not save all the problems. After 15 years of fighting opponents like the Taliban (the organization is banned in Russia - ed.), The US army is still vulnerable. This applies to air defense, electronic warfare, precision weapons and inadequately protected equipment. In this, the US Army cannot compare with the Russian armed forces, Thompson concludes.

    The geography of the region also suggests that most of the US naval forces and assets will be cut off from the theater of operations, the expert adds. Russia has military bases in the Kaliningrad region in the Baltic and Sevastopol in the Black Sea, which makes it dangerous for the American fleet to enter adjacent waters. The US Air Force, in turn, can be expelled from the conflict zone with the help of Russian air defense.

    Another circumstance that aggravates the position of the American army in a hypothetical conflict with Russia may be the indecision of the allies in the North Atlantic Alliance, the article says. NATO forces have a numerical superiority over the Russian army, but it is far from clear whether the majority of the bloc’s members will join the conflict in the Baltic countries or Ukraine, which is also not a member of the alliance. Most opinion polls show that Europeans from the west of the continent are reluctant to protect their neighbors from eastern Europe.

    The positions of the North Atlantic Alliance will also weaken if Washington chooses defensive tactics and refuses to attack military bases or units in Russia. It will be difficult to launch an offensive - the maximum stage of such a conflict could be the use of nuclear weapons by Moscow, and not one of the European capitals is ready to launch a nuclear attack, the expert concludes.

    NOTE: Wow! and who is the 404 country again?

    http://in24.org/
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    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:18 pm

    Interesting. They receive 750 Bill. $ a year but only 22 Bill. $ is left over to purchase new equipment.

    The murican system is so corrupt, they could spend 1,5 Trill. $ and couldn´t keep up with Russia and China. Even with India.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:38 pm

    Hole wrote:Interesting. They receive 750 Bill. $ a year but only 22 Bill. $ is left over to purchase new equipment.

    The murican system is so corrupt, they could spend 1,5 Trill. $ and couldn´t keep up with Russia and China. Even with India.

    Even though you are right, I think the $22 billion is a typo. It does not make any sense even with corruption. Corruption comes
    in the form of extortion level prices. So why would the amount the US has to spend reduced before they buy anything? The loss
    comes from buying the overpriced goods and services.

    $22 billion per month is $264 billion per year. This figure makes more sense since the rest is spent on civilian contractors for
    military bases and general administration of the bureaucracy known as the army. I am also excluding the "special budget items"
    from this amount. So about 50% of the US military budget actually goes to direct military expenditures (aircraft, tanks, missiles
    and support for soldiers). Of course, what Russia can buy for the same $264 billion is about 6 times more than the USA.
    Russia needs $44 billion per year to get roughly the same that the USA gets.

    I do not think that US military bases and bureaucracy consumes over 95% percent of their total budget. But 50% is clearly
    corrupt.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:01 pm

    After reading it again I would say the 22 Bill. are for the army alone.

    Budget overview
    DoD Total (Base + OCO + Emergency) Budget by Appropriation Title ($ in Thousands
    Base + OCO + Emergency
    FY 2019
    Military Personnel
    $152,883,052
    Operation and Maintenance
    $283,544,068
    Procurement
    $144,340,905
    RDT&E
    $92,364,681
    Revolving and Management Funds
    $1,557,305
    Defense Bill
    $674,690,011
    Military Construction
    $9,801,405
    Family Housing
    $1,582,632
    Military Construction Bill
    $11,384,037
    Total Base + OCO + Emergency
    $686,074,048
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:52 pm

    Still a crock of shit though...

    US forces annually receive $ 22 billion from the federal budget for new weapons, while Russia has launched a ten-year rearmament program with a budget of $ 700 billion, and most of the funds, according to Thompson, will go to the development of ground forces and aviation.

    So the Russians are going to add 70 billion dollars per year to their military budget of about 65 billion a year and they are only going to spend that 70 billion on new weapons...

    RIGHT... so when was it announced by Russia that they were spending 65 billion in 2019 and 135 billion every year from 2020 to 2030... I don't remember the outrage or western media frenzy over that.

    The kicker is the very idea that Americas main problems are that they are not spending enough money on their military and that they actually need more troops in Europe ready to fight WWIII against Russia... a non communist country.

    With tactical nukes a US armoured division is target practise and is really not much of a return on its investment in terms of money and people and time.

    Damn Russia is lucky these so called journalists are so fucking stupid.... America is fucked with this sort of bullshit logic...
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    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:13 pm

    He also misses the point that Russia didn´t procure anything between 1993 and 2000 and only bought a handful of weapon systems between 2001 and 2008 while Amiland spend 500+ Bill. a year in that timeframe.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:19 am

    Just shows how the US MIC has the American media by the balls.... we are uncompetitive and going bankrupt... solution... spend more money...

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