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    Russia - USA Relations

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    nomadski

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  nomadski on Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:11 pm


    .....Was it the Spartans that had three kings ? Or the Greeks that had many gods . I remember reading that if there had been .....more than one god in the heavens then things would not have worked out on Earth . But there may be an advantage in .....having two or more gods . For one , they have less to do . But what about Donald Trump ? Can you imagine him with an .....angry face ? While wrestling with CNN in a comic book ? Can we have two foreign secretary ? Like good cop , bad cop ? .....Good cop can shake Donald Trump hand with smile . Bad cop can give a stern look at general mattis . Both are needed . .....How about assistant foreign secretary ? A constant hard line bad cop ? ........scary look on Lavrof ....
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:19 am

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201707271055931578-russia-pranksters-perry/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

    These guys are awesome.

    Pranking the energy minister in US proving that he is an idiot.

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB on Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:04 pm

    It begins. Russia expels diplomats in Moscow, seizes property.

    Empires either collapse or subjugate. Happens every single time. There is no in-between. Certainly not for the U.S with it's "18 trillion" economy.

    The new cold war will result in either the break-up of new Russia or the collapse of the U.S, perhaps even a breakup/civil war if the petro dollar bubble bursts. Incomes are tight as it's and the safety net is a joke - specially healthcare. New ride for the next 10-30 years.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:26 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:It begins. Russia expels diplomats in Moscow, seizes property.

    Empires either collapse or subjugate. Happens every single time. There is no in-between. Certainly not for the U.S with it's "18 trillion" economy.

    The new cold war will result in either the break-up of new Russia or the collapse of the U.S, perhaps even a breakup/civil war if the petro dollar bubble bursts. Incomes are tight as it's and the safety net is a joke - specially healthcare. New ride for the next 10-30 years.

    you are looking at it too simple. Russia won't break up even if they back down. Current day Russia is united simply because majority of the nation 90+% are ethnic Russians. Same goes for the US. It simply will go to bad relations to possible good ones eventually when someone decides to melt the ice.

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:05 pm

    Now we know the numbers, 575 are genuine US staff the 180 others are local staff employed by the US. Assume there are family members on top of this. A huge upheaval.

    Just find it amazing at the number. Non of course were there to influence Russian elections  Laughing

    When Russia warned on Friday that it would retaliate proportionately after it announced it would seize two diplomatic compounds used by the US in Russia and added that it would reduce the number of US diplomatic service staff in the country to equal the number of Russian diplomats in the US by September 1, calculated by the local press at 455, it wasn't joking.

    Moments ago, speaking in an interview on the Rossiya 1 TV channel, Vladimir Putin said that 755 American diplomats will be expelled, or as he phrased it "will have to leave Russia as a result of Washington's own policies", a move which as we previewed on Friday, will make the diplomatic missions of Russia and the United States working in the both countries equal.

    "The American side has made a move which, it is important to note, hasn't been provoked by anything, to worsen Russian-US relations. [It includes] unlawful restrictions, attempts to influence other states of the world, including our allies, who are interested in developing and keeping relations with Russia," Putin told channel host, Vladimir Solovyov, Sunday.

    "The personnel of the US diplomatic missions in Russia will be cut by 755 people and will now equal the number of the Russian diplomatic personnel in the United States, 455 people on each side."

    Finally, the Russian president said that the time for retaliation has come: "we've been waiting for quite a long time that maybe something would change for the better, we had hopes that the situation would change. But it looks like, it's not going to change in the near future... I decided that it is time for us to show that we will not leave anything unanswered."

    According to Reuters, Putin also said that Russia is able to impose additional measures against U.S. but he is against such moves.

    And now we await the US retaliation in what is once again the same tit-for-tat escalation that marked the latter years of the Obama regime, as the US Military Industrial Complex breathes out a sigh of relief that for all the posturing by Trump, things between Russia and the US are back on autopilot.


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-30/its-time-retaliate-putin-expels-755-us-diplomats
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    franco

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  franco on Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:14 am

    Not sure where this should go but here is a world wide survey conducted among 38 countries on what are the biggest threats in their citizens perception. Canada and Australia results are somewhat surprising.

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/08/01/globally-people-point-to-isis-and-climate-change-as-leading-security-threats/#fn-38604-1
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    nomadski

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  nomadski on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:07 pm

    What is the nature of the world ? Having harmful relationships is an oxymoron . Since the object of that relationship is destroyed . What is the nature of the world ? An environment that fosters diversity . And a miriad of complex relationships . So the world is where a diversity of beneficial relationships exist . Between the atoms . Between the stars . And beasts . And mountains . And men .

    Those that destroy peacefulness . Coexistence . Diversity .Wanting to create a unipolar world . Where only they exist . Are doomed to fail . Such is written into the fabric of nature . So write into your hearts . Those of you of like mind . Not to carry hatred and greed into your hearts . And love your fellow men . But do not offer your flesh to him . To devour . Make your flesh unpalatable to him . Grow a thick skin . So he chokes with every bite .
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:39 pm

    More angles:

    Trump sidesteps impeachment trap in sanctions law and prepares challenge to Supreme Court


    http://theduran.com/trump-sidesteps-impeachment-trap-sanctions-law-prepares-challenge-supreme-court/
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    starman

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  starman on Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:28 pm

    nomadski wrote:
    So the world is where a diversity of beneficial relationships exist .Between the stars . And beasts

    Some stars are devoured by black holes. Some invasive species have wiped out others.



    Those that destroy peacefulness . Coexistence . Diversity .Wanting to create a  unipolar world .

    The recent "unipolar world" resulted mainly from the collapse of one superpower not the aggression of another (although US Iraq policy has been foolish).


    Where only they  exist . Are  doomed to fail .

    A hegemon seeks to dominate not eradicate.

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:25 pm

    It's on baby!

    The Russian Consulate in San Francisco, as well as two annex buildings in Washington and New York, will have to close by September 2, the US State Department announced in response to Moscow ordering the US to reduce its diplomatic personnel in Russia.

    https://www.rt.com/news/401613-russian-consulate-us-closure/

    Only gonna get worse for the foreseeable future....specially when ISIS folds.....

    Ukraine still in the cards as well...... hopefully Gorby is watching...soon from hell.

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:34 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:It's on baby!

    The Russian Consulate in San Francisco, as well as two annex buildings in Washington and New York, will have to close by September 2, the US State Department announced in response to Moscow ordering the US to reduce its diplomatic personnel in Russia.

    https://www.rt.com/news/401613-russian-consulate-us-closure/

    Only gonna get worse for the foreseeable future....specially when ISIS folds.....

    Ukraine still in the cards as well...... hopefully Gorby is watching...soon from hell.
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.

    Definite poison pill from Obama.

    EDIT Bit more from the US

    Department of State‏@StateDept 1h1 hour ago

    In spirit of parity, we require #Russia to close its consulate in SF, chancery annex in DC, and consular annex in NYC by Sep. 2.


    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:29 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:It's on baby!

    The Russian Consulate in San Francisco, as well as two annex buildings in Washington and New York, will have to close by September 2, the US State Department announced in response to Moscow ordering the US to reduce its diplomatic personnel in Russia.

    https://www.rt.com/news/401613-russian-consulate-us-closure/

    Only gonna get worse for the foreseeable future....specially when ISIS folds.....

    Ukraine still in the cards as well...... hopefully Gorby is watching...soon from hell.
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.

    Definite poison pill from Obama.

    Figure State Dept/CIA have made the assessment that their efforts inside Russia to stir the pot via covert ops will be rather unfruitful given the political conditions in Russia and Putin's stronghold. So, if you come to that conclusion and you look at the political situation inside the U.S (which is chaotic), then you see that reducing Russian ops (by personal cut) is a net benefit for now. Among many other considerations that I'm sure they took of course.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:16 pm

    JohninMK wrote:..........
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.
    ................

    So which consulate do you think is getting the hatchet next?

    My bet is one in St. Petersburg...

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:36 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:..........
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.
    ................

    So which consulate do you think is getting the hatchet next?

    My bet is one in St. Petersburg...
    The US says that there is still 3 in the US so maybe they will now leave the premises alone. Maybe level the numbers again if Russians have to leave the US..
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:24 am

    I'd say move the Russian diplomats to Cuba and improve relations with that country... perhaps a naval base and an airfield there would be useful...

    And of course give North Korea a free hand to do what they want and veto anything the US tries against them.

    Let them know that Russia can actually act against US wishes rather than just in its own interests... there is an enormous difference.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB on Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:I'd say move the Russian diplomats to Cuba and improve relations with that country... perhaps a naval base and an airfield there would be useful...

    And of course give North Korea a free hand to do what they want and veto anything the US tries against them.

    Let them know that Russia can actually act against US wishes rather than just in its own interests... there is an enormous difference.

    The Chinese maybe. Cuba will be asking a lot in aid for those two bases - A LOT. They aren't stupid and got burned with Gorby already. Subsidizing half of Cuba's oil consumption might get them to bite though, IF Venezuela folds...free oil tankers.

    As for Korea, Russia is letting China handle the crisis, offering input and obviously keeping a close eye on it. A goodwill gesture of sorts. Totally against it, as I'm sure many in Russians power circles were; BUT I can see the rationale. Let China get its feet wet, become the target, etc etc...

    If there is consulate parity now...best course of action is to expel American diplomats, IF the San Francisco closure results in staff cuts. Also, strict deadlines...4 days at most...not weeks.

    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:25 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.
    Because for the media, Trump is a Russian agent, and will always be, no matter what he does. I just don't understand Trump's rationale: he is abandoning everyone who can support them, hoping that the deep state (and everything it controls, like the media) will stop opposing him. Just won't work, the deep state and globalists want him out of the White House because they never wanted him there in the first place, and considering that Trump is dumping  his allies and those who could provide him real support (Flynn, Bannon, Putin), I am almost sure he won't end his term.

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB on Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:59 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.
    Because for the media, Trump is a Russian agent, and will always be, no matter what he does. I just don't understand Trump's rationale: he is abandoning everyone who can support them, hoping that the deep state (and everything it controls, like the media) will stop opposing him. Just won't work, the deep state and globalists want him out of the White House because they never wanted him there in the first place, and considering that Trump is dumping  his allies and those who could provide him real support (Flynn, Bannon, Putin), I am almost sure he won't end his term.

    Don't try to understand Trump's "motives" - it's just a black alley. The only thing positive, absent his reformative agenda (which would of been by-in large positive - both foreign policy but also domestic), is to appreciate the fixtures he has exposed and the chaos he has inflicted on the internal political situation in the U.S - also known as a weakening. That's the only thing at this point to positively take way - also, he's not a charming liar that can promote liberalism like any of those who ran against him. I think this is one of the many reasons Putin/Xi are holding rhetoric barbs back (little gain in engaging Trump in a way that may weaken him publicly thus aid his internal enemies)... not for the need of excuses cause the wars are on, both on China and Russia in practically all fronts imaginable.

    The bolded reasoning to an extent is part of it ...actually they seem to have found the proper spin by using chimney smoke as the selling point.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:11 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.
    Because for the media, Trump is a Russian agent, and will always be, no matter what he does. I just don't understand Trump's rationale: he is abandoning everyone who can support them, hoping that the deep state (and everything it controls, like the media) will stop opposing him. Just won't work, the deep state and globalists want him out of the White House because they never wanted him there in the first place, and considering that Trump is dumping  his allies and those who could provide him real support (Flynn, Bannon, Putin), I am almost sure he won't end his term.


    Correct on all counts but always remember: still better than Hilary

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:49 pm

    This is slowly getting nastier so I thought you might be interested in a bit of the Law

    Embassy Territory

    The best place to find answers is with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961.

    Within this convention, Articles 21-25 have to do with embassies, though more specifically diplomatic missions as a whole.

    Article 21
    1. The receiving State shall either facilitate the acquisition on its territory, in accordance with its laws, by the sending State of premises necessary for its mission or assist the latter in obtaining accommodation in some other way.
    2. It shall also, where necessary, assist missions in obtaining suitable accommodation for their members.

    Article 22
    1. The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.

    2. The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the mission or impairment of its dignity.

    3. The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.

    Article 23
    1. The sending State and the head of the mission shall be exempt from all national, regional or municipal dues and taxes in respect of the premises of the mission, whether owned or leased, other than such as represent payment for specific services rendered.

    2. The exemption from taxation referred to in this article shall not apply to such dues and taxes payable under the law of the receiving State by persons contracting with the sending State or the head of the mission.

    Article 24
    The archives and documents of the mission shall be inviolable at any time and wherever they may be.

    Article 25

    The receiving State shall accord full facilities for the performance of the functions of the mission.

    Above you will notice I bolded a few phrases, all in Article 22, which have to do with mission sovereignty. Let’s break it down:

    1. The premises of a mission shall be inviolable

    Nobody can enter the mission without permission- this includes the host country

    2. The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the mission or impairment of its dignity.




    If you visit an Embassy, especially in more dangerous parts of the world, you will see the exterior of the mission being guarded by local nationals. The inside might have their own soldiers, but the outside will either be local police or military.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:31 pm

    Yeah, US breaking Vienna protocol by searching the SF mission. I think Russia needs to do the same to the US. US doesn't realize they put themselves into a tough spot now.
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    franco

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  franco on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:05 pm

    You are forgetting that Americans are an exceptional people living in an exceptional nation so the laws of mere mortals do not apply. Suspect

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:15 pm

    franco wrote:You are forgetting that Americans are an exceptional people living in an exceptional nation so the laws of mere mortals do not apply.  Suspect
    Being truly exceptional I wonder if it ever crossed their minds that the Russians may search their protected by Law compounds now locked up in Russia so might have left a few bits and bobs behind?

    Clearly the Russians would not overtly break the Law, that's not Putin's style, but if they saw a movement or a wisp of smoke or anything suspicious they would have to, under their duty of care obligations, investigate.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:28 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    franco wrote:You are forgetting that Americans are an exceptional people living in an exceptional nation so the laws of mere mortals do not apply.  Suspect
    Being truly exceptional I wonder if it ever crossed their minds that the Russians may search their protected by Law compounds now locked up in Russia so might have left a few bits and bobs behind?

    Clearly the Russians would not overtly break the Law, that's not Putin's style, but if they saw a movement or a wisp of smoke or anything suspicious they would have to, under their duty of care obligations, investigate.

    http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/2851761

    Judging by this, they may do exactly the same thing back, and US has itself to blame.
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    starman

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    Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  starman on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    And of course give North Korea a free hand to do what they want and veto anything the US tries against them.

    Same with Iran and Assad too. Smile

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