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    Regular
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    Russian Car Industry

    Post  Regular on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:15 pm

    Does anyone of You had experience with post soviet cars made in Russia?

    TR1
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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:47 pm

    Yes. Cheap, unsafe crap.

    You can fix them with a wrench though.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 pm


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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:50 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    Impressive, now when will it enter production?Wink 

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:05 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:Impressive, now when will it enter production?Wink 

    Do you think of buying some? Very Happy 

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:59 am

    Viktor wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:Impressive, now when will it enter production?Wink 

    Do you think of buying some? Very Happy 
    Love to, if i had the cash. Embarassed 

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Regular on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:17 pm

    X-Ray is a concept car and it's designed by same person who worked with Volvo XC60 concept. Looks good like most of his designs. I don't like proportions, it doesn't look practical to have such narrow side windows. Interior of the car is very well made and I like it a lot. Not sure about what is inside in the car, hows the chassis, engine or maybe it's an empty shell?
    But what happened to Lada C or C Cross?

    Does Lada have resources and capabilities to put these concept cars in to production?
    What engines they can house? Does Lada have diesel engines, naturally aspires high performance engines?
    I think VAZ 2107 semyorachka was being made till last year, can't imagine production lines spewing something like that now. And Lada Kalina is one of the worst European cars in it's segment.
    My friend bought one from Germany for 1100 euros (!!!) 2009 year, less than 50000 km was covered. Quality of a car was so pathetic, not even KIA or DACIA models are so terrible.
    I only had chance to own Gazelle car and it was crap even if it was brand new, when warranty was over we sold them for nothing and decided to go with older but more reliable Ford Transit vans.

    But is there other Russian car makers I don't know ? What happened to Moskvitch?

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:47 pm

    Regular wrote:X-Ray is a concept car and it's designed by same person who worked with Volvo XC60 concept. Looks good like most of his designs. I don't like proportions, it doesn't look practical to have such narrow side windows. Interior of the car is very well made and I like it a lot. Not sure about what is inside in the car, hows the chassis, engine or maybe it's an empty shell?
    Who know, but overall good looking car at least.

    Regular wrote:But what happened to Lada C or C Cross?
    I remember the Lada C in Geneva 2007, don't know what happened, but according to wiki they never left the experimental/concept stage.
    Lada


    Regular wrote:
    Does Lada have resources and capabilities to put these concept cars in to production?
    Considering what happened to the C and C Kross, i am gonna go with.... no.

    Regular wrote:What engines they can house? Does Lada have diesel engines, naturally aspires high performance engines?
    Who Knows??
     
    Regular wrote:I think VAZ 2107 semyorachka was being made till last year, can't imagine production lines spewing something like that now. And Lada Kalina is one of the worst European cars in it's segment.
    My friend bought one from Germany for 1100 euros (!!!) 2009 year, less than 50000 km was covered. Quality of a car was so pathetic, not even KIA or DACIA models are so terrible.
    I only had chance to own Gazelle car and it was crap even if it was brand new, when warranty was over we sold them for nothing and decided to go with older but more reliable Ford Transit vans.
    Been hearing stories like that for years its always the same, i cant understand why Lada makes sought great concept cars yet fails miserably to bring them to production and continues to produce what has been known throughout the world as some of the worst cars in vehicular history, if they don't shape up soon there not gonna last long.

    Regular wrote:But is there other Russian car makers I don't know ? What happened to Moskvitch?
    Of course there are other car makers, there's Lada, GAZ, TagAZ, UAZ, kaMAZ and a new kid called Yo-Auto.
    And as for Moskvitch according to Wiki, The factory, which had been renamed to OAO Moskvitch (Moskvitch Joint Stock Company) in the early 1990s, filed for bankruptcy in 2002 and ceased production.
    Moskvitch

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:49 am

    Current generation Ladas (Kalina 2, Granta etc) have nothing to do with their notorious predecessrs. For example the new Granta is based on Renault platform). The old boxy Fiat based models are no longer in production. Lada is in partnership with Renault-Nissan.

    UAZ makes now the Patriot SUV which is in good demand.

    The only other Russian car is the Aquila made by TagAZ. It just made it to the market. Tagaz used to make Hyundais and SsanYongs too under license. Now they also make Chinese designed cars.

    GAZ makes now only trucks, vans, minibuses and buses. It aslo makes Volkswagens, Chevrolets and others under licence.
    There are other Russian manufacturers (like Avtotor and others) who make foreign cars under licence including BMWs and Audis.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:14 pm

    Lada Granta is huge for Avtovaz as the Granta is a good selling automobile and out of most of avtovaz products, is a big success (Kalina being another one).  Hyundai Solaris being second best in Russia which is produced in St.Pete

    http://eng.autostat.ru/news/view/8156/

    Lada Granta and Largus sells quite well in the CIS countries, more specifically Ukraine and Kazakhstan.

    From what I have heard from someone who owned a Lada Kalina in Europe, said that the European variant is far better quality build than Russian, simply because they are built cheaply in Russia to meet the lower end of the financial spectrum.

    I may be wrong in this, but Avtovaz has been taken over by Renault/Nissan group as they own majority shares.

    The TagAZ Aquila is a sports car/Sedan for the cheap, around $10,000 for one.  We will see as to how well it does by the end of the year as it really just started to go on sale this year.

    http://eng.autostat.ru/news/view/7463/

    UAZ seems to be doing quite well for themselves, with the Patriot being most popular.  Now some people claim (from what they saw of a parked Patriot) is rust, but that is common, especially if you do not take care of it, dents or breaks happen, and the non-galvanized portion of the metal is exposed.

    Right now, the Russian automobiles do quite well within Russia and in the CIS countries, with some decent sales outside of that like in Europe (Avtovaz only has a 5% market of it, but that is better than none) and Latin America.  They are also big in producing models of other companies from various countries as well for domestic and abroad.

    Only markets like India and China need to be touched, and I think Avtovaz and TagAZ might have a potential.  But unfortunately, China is heavily protected for domestic industries, and India already has a decent car brand by the name of Tata motors.

    I don't hold high hopes for the X-Ray simply because I find most of the electric cars tend be either vaporware or are just garbage in general.  Usually, when they hit as well, they are too costly, while you can purchase a cheap gas automobile, and purchase gas for many years, than what a electric car costs.  As well, build quality tends to be in question as well.  It is a wait and see.  Maybe it may struck great for those within cities, and used as a city driving automobile.  Nothing else.

    Edit:

    On another note, my good friends father (rest his soul) used to have two ladas back in the 70's in Ontario. Man loved the cars even though they were a bitch to operate and were not the best quality of vehicles, but sure as hell easy to fix and was cheap.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:10 pm

    Coming soon in the future: A new Russian car from a company owned by billionaire/politician/prtesidential candidate Prokhorov, The company name is Yo-Mobile. The vehicle has Hybrid propulsion, it is called Yo-Crossover.






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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Regular on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:01 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Current generation Ladas (Kalina 2, Granta etc) have nothing to do with their notorious predecessrs. For example the new Granta is based on Renault platform).


    I thought Granta is based on Kalina platform as it says on some links? And what Renault car it is based on? Logan perhaps.  Price for Lux is more than than 9000 euros (400000 roubles)  Who in the world will spent that kind of money, You can get 2012 Renault Megane with around 5000 miles on clock from dealership with different engines to choose from.

    The old boxy Fiat based models are no longer in production. Lada is in partnership with Renault-Nissan.
    Well Samara is still being made.

    UAZ makes now the Patriot SUV which is in good demand.
    Does it sell better than Renault(Dacia) Duster?  

    The only other Russian car is the Aquila made by TagAZ. It just made it to the market.
    Just checked it out. Thanks! It really has resemblence Mitsubishi eclipse 3 gen. Only sad thing is the engine.

    Tagaz used to make Hyundais and SsanYongs too under license. Now they also make Chinese designed cars.
    Aren't Chinese designs banned in Russia? They are well known to be road hazards, with quality that would make even old Lada look like a Jaguar.

    GAZ makes now only trucks, vans, minibuses and buses. It aslo makes Volkswagens, Chevrolets and others under licence.
    Hope they will improve their products with new management.

    There are other Russian manufacturers (like Avtotor and others) who make foreign cars under licence including BMWs and Audis.
    I've heard about luxury Audi and BMW being assembled in Russia, but not about being built from scratch.
    And
    Thanks for the info Armenian!

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Regular on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:26 am

    On another note, my good friends father (rest his soul) used to have two ladas back in the 70's in Ontario.  Man loved the cars even though they were a bitch to operate and were not the best quality of vehicles, but sure as hell easy to fix and was cheap.
    Ladas I remember used to be easy to fix but so as most cars from these times. Audi Coupe, 80 and 100 series were simple as Lada cars only different they were far superior with all parameters. I never seen Lada going over 200000 miles on clock, but I had Audi with even more mileage and it was solid, but I'm talking about old block diesel almost old as me.
    Or BMW E30 can be example of how simple and easy design was. I owned countless driving and non driving ones, they can be butcher in day and it takes two weeks to rebuild a new one.
    Today cars are build to feed dealerships with their endless error codes, components that can only be replaced with special tools, like MB E63 and their super expensive wheel alignment. All those fancy emission reductions can go to hell, I want my car to be simple, but well made one. These kind of cars don't exist in Europe any more.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:03 am

    My answers are highlighted in bold.

    Regular wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:Current generation Ladas (Kalina 2, Granta etc) have nothing to do with their notorious predecessrs. For example the new Granta is based on Renault platform).


    I thought Granta is based on Kalina platform as it says on some links? And what Renault car it is based on? Logan perhaps.  Price for Lux is more than than 9000 euros (400000 roubles)  Who in the world will spent that kind of money, You can get 2012 Renault Megane with around 5000 miles on clock from dealership with different engines to choose from.

    Yes, Granta is based on the Renault Logan platform.
    Last month (June) over 17000 Grantas were sold in Russia. Someone is buying them
    Laughing 

    The old boxy Fiat based models are no longer in production. Lada is in partnership with Renault-Nissan.
    Well Samara is still being made.

    The front wheel drive Samara is not based on the rear drive Fiat. It is a different platform. Still it is an old one and will stop being produced soon.


    UAZ makes now the Patriot SUV which is in good demand.
    Does it sell better than Renault(Dacia) Duster?

    Apples to oranges comparison. Patriot is a full framed (chassis based) model with true 4x4 capability. Renault Duster is a crossover vehicle not really suitable for off-roading. 


    Tagaz used to make Hyundais and SsanYongs too under license. Now they also make Chinese designed cars.
    Aren't Chinese designs banned in Russia? They are well known to be road hazards, with quality that would make even old Lada look like a Jaguar.

    Not too long ago, the same was said about Korean cars and about Japanese cars before that.

    There are other Russian manufacturers (like Avtotor and others) who make foreign cars under licence including BMWs and Audis.
    I've heard about luxury Audi and BMW being assembled in Russia, but not about being built from scratch.
    And
    Thanks for the info Armenian!
    You're welcome. And yes, I also prefer my cars simple, but that is not the way the industry is going. Even Ladas and Renault Logans are following that technological trend to some extent cry  .

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  gaurav on Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:03 am

    I don't hold high hopes for the X-Ray simply because I find most of the electric cars tend be either vaporware or are just garbage in general.
    This X-RAY concept looks to be great.

    But where it is advertised that it is Electric driven..?I thought it was diesel/petrol..Cool 
    Does AutoVaz have plans to enter India? How much cost will X-RAY will be on the road..?

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:01 pm

    @ Regular: Read the article I submitted. Granta is one of the best sold cars in Russia, as well, it is a pretty good exporter to the CIS countries as well, with Ukraine and Kazakhstan buying them.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Regular on Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:12 pm

    sepheronx wrote:@ Regular: Read the article I submitted.  Granta is one of the best sold cars in Russia, as well, it is a pretty good exporter to the CIS countries as well, with Ukraine and Kazakhstan buying them.
    Thanks for the link. But what makes it better made than other Lada cars? Still it has to have most of it's parts that were already shared between Kalina and other infamous models.
    I'm not considering buying Lada or any Russian car in particular.. Just wondering if there is any light in the industry.
    For me there is nothing to choose from, no proper sedan, no 7 seater, no cross-hatch, I'm not talking about engine options.
    I hate Russian TV boasting about how Granta is new gen car and how it's superior to inomarki. Romania, poorest country in the Europe have same looking car made in their Dacia warehouse, but with more options and arguably better looks.
    I don't see the reason why Russian car makers couldn't target people who have 20,000 - 50,000 Euros to spend on a new car. Market is quite hungry for this type of cars too.
    Lada could be easily transformed in to something like Skoda and it would redeem it's name.
    Skoda Auto is doing pretty good by being part of VW concern while having unique models based on VW/AUDI concern components and they are Eastern Europeans. Funny thing, I find quality of Skoda build cars better their owner VW. Octavia comes to mind being better than Passat.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:57 am

    The new version of Kalina (Kalina 2) just reached the market.


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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:30 am

    Regular wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:@ Regular: Read the article I submitted.  Granta is one of the best sold cars in Russia, as well, it is a pretty good exporter to the CIS countries as well, with Ukraine and Kazakhstan buying them.
    Thanks for the link. But what makes it better made than other Lada cars? Still it has to have most of it's parts that were already shared between Kalina and other infamous models.
    I'm not considering buying Lada or any Russian car in particular.. Just wondering if there is any light in the industry.
    For me there is nothing to choose from, no proper sedan, no 7 seater, no cross-hatch, I'm not talking about engine options.
    I hate Russian TV boasting about how Granta is new gen car and how it's superior to inomarki. Romania, poorest country in the Europe have same looking car made in their Dacia warehouse, but with more options and arguably better looks.
    I don't see the reason why Russian car makers couldn't target people who have 20,000 - 50,000 Euros to spend on a new car. Market is quite hungry for this type of cars too.
    Lada could be easily transformed in to something like Skoda and it would redeem it's name.
    Skoda Auto is doing pretty good by being part of VW concern while having unique models based on VW/AUDI concern components and they are Eastern Europeans. Funny thing, I find quality of Skoda build cars better their owner VW. Octavia comes to mind being better than Passat.

    Besides what you hear, do you know much about the Granta? Granta is best selling not because they say so, but because the numbers say so. It is better because, since Renault-Nissan took over, they really pushed the quality of the parts out. As well, the engine is one thing, the HP it can produce is different. Do you need a 300hp car? No. Chances are, you will never use it. 100 - 108hp? Yeah, that sounds about right, even for long distances. It usually helps with fuel consumption as well. The engines are usually mistubishi engines(?) but I am not entirely sure.

    Luxery is a market that Lada will never dominate simply because the name in itself. When people want luxery, they think of BMW, Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, etc. They would need to come up with a subsiduary like Toyota did with Lexus, and sell premium cars that way. But even then, any association may prevent massive sales simply because of the name connection.

    You can have all the bells and whistles in a Lada Granta sport, but it is going to cost you. As well, there is always the Aquila that looks like it will be luxery for a low cost. Avtovaz is more or less a Renault-Nissan company now, more so than its own. And obviously, they are doing better than they once did.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:07 pm

    Well I don't know much about Granta(only some remarks about bad shifting points and other legacy stuff posted by their owners at runet)  but I know about Niva, Kalina, Priora. Not to mention old models my father and mother used to drive and the ones I've learned how to fix at polytechnikum. 
    Well You can understand me being skeptical, I'm not a blind hater, so please don't get me wrong. UAZ is still no1 for offroad project car and I love Russian/Soviet bikes too.

    And 100 hp means nothing, it's more to do with real power that goes to the wheels, 1.6 naturally aspired engines have hard time with torque and to drive to get that power requires to keep high rpm's and thats where wear an high fuel consumption kicks in. Lada older 1.6 8v engines are surprisingly good, they lack power, quickness and are bit archaic but are mechanically refined and they last no worse than western engines, consumption is not bad in the city. Cars usually fail first before these engines. 16v are no good. And please don't be silly,  I'm not talking about   300bhp engines, but about variety. For example Opel Corsa/Tigra and Astra have bullet proof petrol engines starting from 1.0,  to 2.2, be it 16v, 12v, 8v. 
    In Moscow city I would be happy with 1.4 engine or even smaller, for long highway driving I would prefer 1.8 or bigger engine. For traveling in suburbs 1.6 would be perfect I guess. 

    I wasn't talking about luxury, but about cars like VW Passat, VW Jetta, Audi A4 and A6. 
    I'm not posh bastard, I would be happy to own Russian car, but I don't see even a single option. I own diesel 2009 Passat and I hardly would call it luxury, especially with all that plastic and no air con, but it does 50mpg and 35 in the city so I'm happy. 177 hp comes in handy when overtaking and when I have to tow other cars on trailer. My wife drives 2001 Peugeot 307 2.0Hdi with 180 miles on clock. If Russian car industry would offer car that would be small family MPV like new Ford Galaxy with a good diesel engine we would gladly take it. Lada family cars are not for people that have children, big dog, or even a trailer. I'm middle class, not interested in fancy rims or super sports car performance(not for everyday car anyways), I like to fix car myself, I prefer reliability over comfort or looks, all this bluetooth crap, computers, tv screens are not important. Russia has big middle class in Moscow, why not to exploit their needs?

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:26 pm

    Regular wrote:Well I don't know much about Granta(only some remarks about bad shifting points and other legacy stuff posted by their owners at runet)  but I know about Niva, Kalina, Priora. Not to mention old models my father and mother used to drive and the ones I've learned how to fix at polytechnikum. 
    Well You can understand me being skeptical, I'm not a blind hater, so please don't get me wrong. UAZ is still no1 for offroad project car and I love Russian/Soviet bikes too.

    And 100 hp means nothing, it's more to do with real power that goes to the wheels, 1.6 naturally aspired engines have hard time with torque and to drive to get that power requires to keep high rpm's and thats where wear an high fuel consumption kicks in. Lada older 1.6 8v engines are surprisingly good, they lack power, quickness and are bit archaic but are mechanically refined and they last no worse than western engines, consumption is not bad in the city. Cars usually fail first before these engines. 16v are no good. And please don't be silly,  I'm not talking about   300bhp engines, but about variety. For example Opel Corsa/Tigra and Astra have bullet proof petrol engines starting from 1.0,  to 2.2, be it 16v, 12v, 8v. 
    In Moscow city I would be happy with 1.4 engine or even smaller, for long highway driving I would prefer 1.8 or bigger engine. For traveling in suburbs 1.6 would be perfect I guess. 

    I wasn't talking about luxury, but about cars like VW Passat, VW Jetta, Audi A4 and A6. 
    I'm not posh bastard, I would be happy to own Russian car, but I don't see even a single option. I own diesel 2009 Passat and I hardly would call it luxury, especially with all that plastic and no air con, but it does 50mpg and 35 in the city so I'm happy. 177 hp comes in handy when overtaking and when I have to tow other cars on trailer. My wife drives 2001 Peugeot 307 2.0Hdi with 180 miles on clock. If Russian car industry would offer car that would be small family MPV like new Ford Galaxy with a good diesel engine we would gladly take it. Lada family cars are not for people that have children, big dog, or even a trailer. I'm middle class, not interested in fancy rims or super sports car performance(not for everyday car anyways), I like to fix car myself, I prefer reliability over comfort or looks, all this bluetooth crap, computers, tv screens are not important. Russia has big middle class in Moscow, why not to exploit their needs?

    Everyone has a preference.  I like the Granta and would purchase one if they sold them in Canada, as I need something like it (cheap, semi-reliable, and capable of being taken to point a to point b), but I also need an SUV with more oomph, and the UAZ Patriot.  Cars change over time, and problems usually get dealt with.  Granta has problems, just like Chevy Cobalt has problems and so on so forth, but it is what you are willing to deal with vs the cost of it.  You could always get a automatic vs a manual, and it uses a Mitsubishi transmission for it too.  But that costs money.  If you got a big family, than the UAZ Patriot would be choice, as it is a large vehicle that has plenty of room, and mechanically, I hear it is quite sound.  If I want luxury, I would purchase outside, as outside makes better luxury cars it seems.  I am interested in the Aquila, but time will tell how that is.

    Your hate for Granta seems odd, and even though some basis of it is based off of the Kalina, so are things like Dodge cruze is based off of the dodge Neon.  So what?  Doesn't mean everything is based off of the same thing.  As well, it looks pretty decent.  Kalina 2 is ugly, but so what?  If it suites some people it suites them.  And it seems it sells quite well (Granta), so who are we to say anything?  I hated my Toyota Camry, but lots of others love it.  Doesn't make me right.  For a small cheap city car, the Granta is a great choice.

    Would be nice though, if they used something from Hyundai, like their 2.4L engines.  Those are great engines, and my father has one in his Hyundai Sonata, which runs great (although, rest of the car is crap).

    Edit: I would agree with you though, they could offer more options, like a larger engine, more auto transmission options, maybe other little bells and whistles like backup cameras and what not, without needing aftermarket. A bigger engine would be a lot nicer for sure. But unfortunately, so far, not an option. Maybe because it is doing well (the big turn around from Avtovaz), that the next generation models will come with a larger engine.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Firebird on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:55 am

    The Russian car market is an interesting topic.
    I think its inevitable that these things take time to develop. Ofcourse, Russia is the only one of the top ec powers that doesn't have a mega-name car manufacturer. (Developing China, Brazil and India are the same).

    I think Lada has to reflect what were its key markets ie CIS not the EU or intl markets. Russia has only just joined the WTO. Also, the aim was to produce a fairly cheap car. There isn't a huge 2nd hand car market in Russia where you can buy reliable/ prestige cars for low money. Nor is there the servicing infrastructure to maintain them, in the way you have with the EU. I'm sure Lada will improve more and more over time. I was thinking of how Volkswagen have improved Skoda (and also Seat). However, I think it would have been too early to turn Lada into a new Skoda.

    Russian car industry is improving in numerous ways. Its now Europe's biggest producing country, nothing amazing but that does mean it makes more than Germany.. ALso its got a good range of manufacturing - BMW, Renault/ Lada, Marussia, Kamaz trucks. Ofcourse much of this is joint venture/ licensed, but that is the way things are, even for the mega manufacturers too (which I think is sometimes a mistake eg Merc's disastrous merger with Americans).

    Russia is learning the skills and its population is starting to have more money, and there is also WTO entry. These give Russia a chance to become a top top car manufacturing player. Maybe it can do in cars what S Korea did in electronics? Perhaps Marussia can step into luxury saloons. Or the Zil name is used to produce volume cars, maybe sharing tech with Merc or BMW. Car making is moving towards "mass customisation" from the "mass production" of the Henry Ford era. Maybe styling and design hold the key? There's no reason why Russia cant produce a Hummer, or even Range Rover rival, given its experience in military type offroaders. (Aton looks promising). Yo Mobil is another possib. With low(ish) overheads and the skills base, there are certainly possibilities.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Regular on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:11 am


    Everyone has a preference.  I like the Granta and would purchase one if they sold them in Canada, as I need something like it (cheap, semi-reliable, and capable of being taken to point a to point b)
    Fair enough, my everyday car serves me same purpose. Maybe in Canada You are not worried about fuel cost, but I pay over 2.20 Canadian dollars per 1 litre of petrol and around 2.40 CAD/1 litre diesel. Diesel engine while being less thirsty is better option for us Europeans. Fuel is not cheap in Russia too.

    Cars change over time, and problems usually get dealt with.

    Or new ones appear as new unproven technologies are being introduced. For example my car would be way more reliable with older 1.9 TDI Pumpe duse engine rather than 2.0 TDI with unreliable common rail piezo injectors instead of solenoid ones. Not to mention unreliable oil pump and etc, chassis that is hard as butter.
     
    If you got a big family, than the UAZ Patriot would be choice

    I can imagine going offroad with baby on board. For a family with two kids there is nothing better than European MPV(Ford Galaxy, VW Sharan, Seat Alhambra, they all share same base), a car with high roof just enough to swing a good slap to Your children on the back seat. pirat 
    it is a large vehicle that has plenty of room, and mechanically, I hear it is quite sound.

    Not sure about Patriot, but Hunter is very reliable, so I presume it must be same too. UAZ have refined design, what can I say.  
     If I want luxury, I would purchase outside, as outside makes better luxury cars it seems.

    I personally find luxury cars are made for people who want to express their socio/economic status. Usually it's peacock type of people with low self esteem. For example VW only has 1 luxury car model at all. Phaeton. And not a flashiest one too. VW and luxury cars are oxymoron.
     I am interested in the Aquila, but time will tell how that is.

    Small company, small production lines. Good luck finding even small part :)When I owned rare Japanese car, had to import parts from Japan. That's what You call logistical nightmare. If You would live in Russia I would not see any problems.

    Your hate for Granta seems odd, and even though some basis of it is based off of the Kalina, so are things like Dodge cruze is based off of the dodge Neon.  So what?  Doesn't mean everything is based off of the same thing.  As well, it looks pretty decent.  Kalina 2 is ugly, but so what?  If it suites some people it suites them.  And it seems it sells quite well (Granta), so who are we to say anything?  I hated my Toyota Camry, but lots of others love it.  Doesn't make me right.  For a small cheap city car, the Granta is a great choice.

    I'm maybe being too sceptical, but it's not hate. These models are thousand times better what was made before anyway. The less old Ladas on roads the safer they are. Just remembered breaks on 1 generation Kalina, they are still drum breaks, not a disc ones. Talking about safety.

    Would be nice though, if they used something from Hyundai, like their 2.4L engines.  Those are great engines, and my father has one in his Hyundai Sonata, which runs great (although, rest of the car is crap).

    Have 0 experience with Hyundai, us Europeans probably get the worst models with smallest engines possible. Emissions, Emissions, Emissions. To hell with it.
    Edit: I would agree with you though, they could offer more options, like a larger engine, more auto transmission options, maybe other little bells and whistles like backup cameras and what not, without needing aftermarket.  A bigger engine would be a lot nicer for sure.  But unfortunately, so far, not an option.  Maybe because it is doing well (the big turn around from Avtovaz), that the next generation models will come with a larger engine.

    Well AvtoVaz is owned by Renault-Nissan, and there is no need to create something from scratch to fill gaps in family car segment for example.  Renault Fluence or Nissan Terrano could be base for bigger sedans. Engines can be used from these companies too and modified to an extent. I would really wish Russian auto industry become as powerful as Europe's. Russia would have luxury of making and assembling cars in their own country and thus helping people to earn money. Ford Transit cars were amazing until they decided that British work is too expensive and they moved production lines to Turkey. Well quality dropped significantly.

    As firebird mentioned, maybe it's too early for Lada to become new Skoda or Seat, but it would be sweet to see that.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:05 pm

    Avtovaz has a name for itself, and names usually stick. An example is BMW. In Germany, BMW may be great cars, built great, last a long time, etc. BMW's in North America come from Mexico mostly, with some parts imported from Germany (engines). BMW's here have a low life expectancy, something like 5 years tops. Some people have theirs longer than that, some do not. I have driven BMW and I see nothing special about it. Yeah, it has a nice engine. But the body design is typical (looks no different to me than some Honda Civic, or Bently CRT or what not) and its little bells and whistles is stuff I can install myself with aftermarket gear, for a fraction of the cost (or get someone else to do it).

    When people think of Lada, people think of "cheap peoples vehicle". Well, it is true. Much like how Volkswagen was the same at one time - Peoples Wagon. But now days, everyone associates Lada with either garbage or with poor people, and thus, in its image, even if they sold expensive nice cars, it would end up having that same image. People are inherently ignorant, thus they are comfortable with first impression (like the saying goes: there is no such thing as a second first impression).

    MaRussia is supposed to be the luxery area and so far, not much is said about its development or how well it is doing. Apparently they opened up a facility in Finland so I guess they are doing well enough. TaGAZ was a company built on the premis of building and selling other brand automobiles, like Hyundai, in Russia. So of course they are a small company and thier Aquila will probably not see outside of the country sales. If the company grew lager though, and expanded, then maybe we would. Would be nice if they did as it would be interesting to see how well the Aquila would fair in the international market.

    There is a chance for great luxury car brands in Russia. But it seems the market is pretty much dominated by other brands like Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc.

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    Automotive industry in Russia

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:15 pm

    Russia has a proud history of producing reliable working peoples cars and the only reason they have a bad reputation is because people only believe superficial luxury in western brand names because of propaganda.

    But anyway  how is the russian car industry doing? Are there any modern non-mini cars being built that have gained major interest and if not why is that?

    What is the chance for russian car design to restart?

    When do you think russian cars will gain  a market share in foreign lands?What do you think should be done to make this happen?

    I personally am optimistic about the russian car industry and when I get a license I plan on buying a russian car, either the Lada Samara, a new GAZ SUV, or the 90s GAZ Volga.

    I really really hope russian final countersanctions will be of stopping access to the western car monopoly in russian land thus giving domestic industry a chance to develop again.
    Russia is in extreme need to diversify its economy from almost only selling weapons and pollutant fuels to creating modern civilian products(not producing them, they should have china or vietnam do that since industrial production means you're an old primitive nonmodern economy) thus also stimulating domestic R&D.

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