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    INF Treaty - coming to the end of its life

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:58 pm

    Vladimir Putin signed Executive Order On Suspending the Russian Federation Compliance with the Treaty Between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Elimination of Their Intermediate-Range and Shorter-Range Missiles (the INF Treaty) until the United States of America rectifies its violations of the said Treaty or until it expires.

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/59939

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    Post  dino00 on Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:00 pm

    U.S. to start fabricating parts for ground-launched cruise missile systems

    WASHINGTON, March 11 (Reuters) - The United States will begin “fabrication activities” on parts for ground-launched cruise missile systems, the Pentagon said on Monday, after Washington announced it plans to withdraw from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.

    Last month, the United States announced it would withdraw from the INF Treaty in six months unless Moscow ends what it says are violations of the 1987 pact.

    Russia announced it was suspending the treaty. Moscow denies flouting the accord and has accused Washington of breaking the accord itself, allegations rejected by the United States.

    “We will commence fabrication activities on components to support developmental testing of these systems - activities that until February 2 would have been inconsistent with our obligations under the Treaty,” Army Lieutenant Colonel Michelle Baldanza said.

    “This research and development is designed to be reversible, should Russia return to full and verifiable compliance before we withdraw from the Treaty in August 2019,” Baldanza said.

    The Pentagon said the efforts would be conventional and not nuclear.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-russia-inf/us-to-start-fabricating-parts-for-ground-launched-cruise-missile-systems-idUSL1N20Y0KS
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:03 pm

    Doesn't matter. At least Russia is already many steps ahead with it's current systems. Albeit same with US. It's lip service anyway as Mk-41 already exists and so does Iskanders launcher.

    So both sides have ready platforms as of now.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:38 pm

    dino00 wrote: The Pentagon said the efforts would be conventional and not nuclear.



    wow, Pentgon kept saying form 2001-20016 that ABM in Poland and Romania is just to protect against Iranian missiles too
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    Post  Hole on Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:33 pm

    And the system is working perfectly. No iranian missile has ever hit Poland or Romania. lol!
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:06 pm

    Hole wrote:And the system is working perfectly. No iranian missile has ever hit Poland or Romania. lol!

    Yes they are WunderWaffles....PAC-3, Aegis Ashore/Mk.41, THAAD are so advanced they can phase Iranian IRBM's out of the fabric of existence and make them disappear from the space-time continuum altogether. Wink
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:20 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Hole wrote:And the system is working perfectly. No iranian missile has ever hit Poland or Romania. lol!

    Yes they are WunderWaffles....PAC-3, Aegis Ashore/Mk.41, THAAD are so advanced they can phase Iranian IRBM's out of the fabric of existence and make them disappear from the space-time continuum altogether. Wink

    Should be PAC-3 Aegis AssWhore lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:49 pm

    wow that goes fast...

    yet another five trillions $ to US deficit ? russia russia russia

    Extension of the START Treaty will require the United States to fulfill its obligations under this agreement - Russian Foreign Ministry

    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=503871&lang=RU

    03/13/2019 1:46:51 PM
    *** The United States "fit" in the overall levels of armaments on strategic offensive arms only with the help of "incorrect manipulations" with numbers

    Moscow. March 13. INTERFAX - The United States must fulfill its obligations under the strategic offensive arms treaty (START) so that Moscow and Washington can begin a substantive discussion on the issue of extending this agreement, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Wednesday.
    “We would like to remind our American colleagues that the extension of the START Treaty is not a technical formality that could be completed in a couple of weeks or even more quickly, as they seem to be trying to present it,” says a commentary posted on the Russian website Foreign Office.
    "Before the parties can begin a substantive discussion of such an option, the United States must fully fulfill its obligations under this agreement and bring the number of its strategic offensive weapons in line with the criteria established by the Treaty," noted Smolenskaya Square.
    The Russian Foreign Ministry recalled that "the American side in fact" fit "in the total levels only with the help of incorrect manipulations with numbers."
    "The declared output by her to the required indicators was achieved not only due to real arms reductions, but also due to the illegitimate unilateral withdrawal from the Treaty of the order of hundreds of strategic offensive arms," ​​the Russian diplomatic agency explained.

    “This is a serious problem, without which settlement, the consideration of the question of extending the Treaty loses meaning,” the Russian Foreign Ministry stressed.
    The Russian Foreign Ministry also expressed the hope that "Washington finally realizes the seriousness of the situation with the START Treaty and will take the measures necessary to ensure the viability of this crucial international agreement on the reduction and limitation of nuclear missile weapons."
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:56 pm

    I guess Russia will have right to re open it's plutonium enrichment facility that they still have doing other tasks ATM.

    It will take time for US to restart theirs.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:01 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:wow that goes fast...

    yet another five trillions $ to US deficit ?  russia  russia  russia

    Extension of the START Treaty will require the United States to fulfill its obligations under this agreement - Russian Foreign Ministry


    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=503871&lang=RU

    03/13/2019 1:46:51 PM
         *** The United States "fit" in the overall levels of armaments on strategic offensive arms only with the help of "incorrect manipulations" with numbers
         
          Moscow. March 13. INTERFAX - The United States must fulfill its obligations under the strategic offensive arms treaty (START) so that Moscow and Washington can begin a substantive discussion on the issue of extending this agreement, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Wednesday.
          “We would like to remind our American colleagues that the extension of the START Treaty is not a technical formality that could be completed in a couple of weeks or even more quickly, as they seem to be trying to present it,” says a commentary posted on the Russian website Foreign Office.
          "Before the parties can begin a substantive discussion of such an option, the United States must fully fulfill its obligations under this agreement and bring the number of its strategic offensive weapons in line with the criteria established by the Treaty," noted Smolenskaya Square.
          The Russian Foreign Ministry recalled that "the American side in fact" fit "in the total levels only with the help of incorrect manipulations with numbers."
          "The declared output by her to the required indicators was achieved not only due to real arms reductions, but also due to the illegitimate unilateral withdrawal from the Treaty of the order of hundreds of strategic offensive arms," ​​the Russian diplomatic agency explained.

          “This is a serious problem, without which settlement, the consideration of the question of extending the Treaty loses meaning,” the Russian Foreign Ministry stressed.
          The Russian Foreign Ministry also expressed the hope that "Washington finally realizes the seriousness of the situation with the START Treaty and will take the measures necessary to ensure the viability of this crucial international agreement on the reduction and limitation of nuclear missile weapons."

    These Yanqui self-described exceptionalists simply cannot be trusted to keep any agreement and to be honest in any relevant way. They are two bit
    crooks and backstabbers. I bet the clowns in Washington think they can roll over Russia like they roll over the aboriginal tribes including the
    shredding of every agreement (treaty). The usual hubris disease of western empire builders. Napoleon and Hitler thought they were exceptional
    too.

    We also see how the USSR and Russia have been way too soft on these cheaters. There should be zero tolerance for any shenanigans including
    storage of warheads and perpetual delays of reprocessing of nuclear material. The Americans will not be better off if there are no treaties on arms
    control and reduction. So they are in no position to coerce Russia to make concessions.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:09 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I guess Russia will have right to re open it's plutonium enrichment facility that they still have doing other tasks ATM.

    It will take time for US to restart theirs.

    Russia can generate plutonium at the drop of a hat. It still has the graphite RBMK reactors running and in addition has the world leading
    nuclear pyrochemical reprocessing technology.

    Russia must put the Yanquis in their place and make sure that they leave the START treaty by imposing zero tolerance on their
    scamming. The will bitch and moan, but at the end of they day they are impotent. I am in favour of returning to the 1980s levels
    of nuclear warhead numbers. As I posted before, the risk of accidental nuclear weapons launch is independent of the size of the
    arsenal since the individual ICBMs, IRBMs, SLBMs, etc. are not autonomous. But "quantity has a quality all of its own" is a big
    deal since no ABM system has a chance even theoretically. Even if these idiots believe their ABM makes them invincible, they
    will lose their faith when faced with massive nuclear warhead counts. And no, the often repeated BS about how the world can be
    destroyed several times over is not credible. Even tens of thousands of warheads are only useful for destroying major cities and towns
    and that is their value: NATO must have no illusions it will survive a nuclear war against Russia.
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    Post  dino00 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:23 pm

    US plans tests this year of long-banned types of missiles

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon plans to begin flight tests this year of two types of missiles that have been banned for more than 30 years by a treaty from which both the United States and Russia are expected to withdraw in August, defense officials said Wednesday.

    The officials, who spoke to a small group of reporters under Pentagon ground rules that did not permit use of their names or titles, said one project is a low-flying cruise missile with a potential range of about 1,000 kilometers; the other would be a ballistic missile with a range of roughly 3,000 to 4,000 kilometers. Neither would be nuclear armed, the officials said.

    The U.S. cruise missile is likely to be flight-tested in August, one official said, adding that it might be ready for deployment within 18 months. The longer-range ballistic missile is expected to be tested in November, with deployment not likely for five years or more, the official said. If Russia and the U.S. were to reach a deal to rescue the INF treaty before August, these projects would not go forward.

    One defense official said it was possible that the intermediate-range ballistic missile could be deployed on Guam, a U.S. territory, which would be close enough to Asia to pose a potential threat to China and Russia.

    https://apnews.com/ea243a96bc254378ba92f1e3e8761389

    An IRBM developed from scratch in 10-11 months? lol1 lol1 and Russia was the one violating the treaty?
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:44 pm

    Note the new propaganda line from Washington: it will not put nuclear warheads on these systems. Yeah, right. And I have some
    fine Florida real estate for sale a great price.
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:10 am

    dino00 wrote:An IRBM developed from scratch in 10-11 months? lol1 lol1  and Russia was the one violating the treaty?
    Not even that, they were supposed to wait 6 months, counting from February, before definitely scrapping the treaty... that is August. I can see they are not sparing any effort to preserve international stability lol1 lol1 lol1

    Really, I have run out of words to describe these idiots...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:59 am

    dino00 wrote:US plans tests this year of long-banned types of missiles

    One defense official said it was possible that the intermediate-range ballistic missile could be deployed on Guam, a U.S. territory, which would be close enough to Asia to pose a potential threat to China and Russia.

    Anti-Ship BMs?
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:11 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    dino00 wrote:US plans tests this year of long-banned types of missiles

    One defense official said it was possible that the intermediate-range ballistic missile could be deployed on Guam, a U.S. territory, which would be close enough to Asia to pose a potential threat to China and Russia.

    Anti-Ship BMs?

    Dont think so.
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:47 am

    Russia is (quite logically) calling out the US farce:

    “It is the US and - not Russia - that violated the provisions of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. It is the US that included a provision on R&D on these missiles in the draft budget,” the Kremlin spokesman said.

    More:
    http://tass.com/politics/1048594

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:23 pm

    So we know what Russia's cruise missiles at answer is (Navy Kalibr variant for ground forces, ~2,000km low altitude flight) but what about BM? I think it's Kinzhal but ground launch?
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    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:25 am

    US plans to test medium-range missiles in record time


    The Kommersant newspaper reports in Mikhail Korostikov’s material “The time has come for severe tests. The United States is ready to create new medium-range missiles in record time” Washington from 1987. This was announced by an unnamed representative of the US Department of Defense to several US agencies and media. According to him, if the test is successful, the new missiles can be deployed within 18 months. The Kremlin and the General Staff of the Russian Federation stated that this step was expected: the United States headed for "dismantling strategic agreements" with Russia.

    The United States officially announced its withdrawal from the Treaty on Medium and Short Range Missiles (INF) on February 1, 2019, and the six-month notification period during which the agreement continues to operate expires on August 1. Thus, the US test of a new rocket in August will be legal, but no less unexpected from this: the Russian and foreign politicians and experts polled by Kommersant in recent months have assumed that this will not happen so quickly. The current statement complements the message released by the Pentagon on February 11. In it, the US defense department stated that it had begun "the production of missile components for testing."

    The Pentagon will test a ground-based cruise missile at a distance of about 1 thousand km, the source said. He added that only non-nuclear missiles will be tested, there are no plans for testing nuclear-tipped missiles. As for the locations of the proposed deployment of rocket launchers, there has not yet been any information "We did not discuss with our allies the prospects for forward-based missiles," a source quotes Reuters. "Frankly, we did not think about it because we scrupulously observed the treaty."

    A source at the Pentagon also said that, most likely, ground-based versions of Tomahawk sea-based cruise missiles would be tested (according to the INF Treaty, the use of medium-range and shorter-range air and sea-based missiles was not prohibited). “We (in August.—“ Kommersant ”) will simply launch it, check the idea that you can simply put Tomahawk on a tractor and launch it,” added the American media source. Tomahawk - the most massive American cruise missile, widely used by the American fleet over the past three decades: from Iraq in 1991 (Operation Desert Storm) to Syria in 2018. The rocket has been manufactured since the early 1980s and has a range from 465 to 2.5 thousand km (depending on version) and a speed of about 900 km / h. It may have both nuclear and non-nuclear military equipment.

    In November, according to the source, “a completely new (ballistic. -“ Kommersant ”) rocket will be tested, if you like, Pershing II, of the same class”. Recall, Pershing II was actively deployed in Europe in the 1980s and was eliminated in accordance with the INF. The curb weight of the missile was about 7.5 tons, the range of flight - 1770 km. The missiles were completed with the latest at the time of the W85 warheads with a variable power from 5 to 80 kilotons. At the time of the signing of the INF Treaty, the United States had a total of 247 Pershing II, with 120 missiles and 105 of their launchers deployed in West Germany. This sparked violent protests from the West German public, in which hundreds of thousands of people took part. Opponents of the Pershing II deployment believed that the appearance of missiles in Germany contradicted Article 26 of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Germany, which forbade Bonn to "prepare for an aggressive war." The claim was dismissed by the court.

    The source said that “if Russia returns to the execution of the INF Treaty, then the tests will be canceled”. Recall that, from the point of view of Moscow, the responsibility for violation of the contract lies precisely with the United States, while Russia fulfilled all its obligations. The document on withdrawal from the INF Treaty in response to US actions, Vladimir Putin signed on March 4.

    Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov, commenting on the news of the upcoming tests, called them expected. “We categorically disagree with any reproaches to our address that we did not remain faithful to this INF Treaty,” he said. “It was the United States, not Russia, that violated the provisions of the treaty. It was the United States that included in the draft budget an item on research (research) on these missiles, and, of course, the implementation of research without testing is often impossible. "

    Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation Valery Gerasimov sharply criticized American plans. “Recent events show: the United States, with reliance on NATO, began to dismantle strategic nuclear-missile agreements; not without external influence in various parts of the world pockets of tension and regional instability arise, ”he said at a meeting of the Committee of Chiefs of Staff of the armed forces of the CIS countries.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3569453.html
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:34 am

    So we know what Russia's cruise missiles at answer is (Navy Kalibr variant for ground forces, ~2,000km low altitude flight) but what about BM? I think it's Kinzhal but ground launch?

    Kinzhal is just Iskander carried and launched from an aircraft... I suspect the first response with a ballistic type would be an Iskander with a solid rocket booster and serious range increase, but the final answer is likely to be a ground launched missile with a scramjet motor so it is powered all the way to the target at very high hypersonic speed. The Iskander is rocket powered so its speed is impressive but its performance does have limits...


    US plans to test medium-range missiles in record time


    No surprise there... for them there is no negative side, because the Russian response will be pointing nuclear missiles at Europe and the America can say... that is what we are here to protect you from... those evil aggressive Russians who point nuclear missiles at you...
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:00 am

    Fuuuuck, I thought It couldn't be more ridiculous accusations against Russia then "building up military presence on NATO doorstep"
    now I can hear that lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1


    The Pentagon accused Russia of "aggressive modernization of its armed forces"


    https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/6217914
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:47 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Fuuuuck, I thought  It couldn't be more ridiculous accusations  against Russia then "building up military presence   on NATO doorstep"  
    now I  can hear that lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1


    The Pentagon accused Russia of "aggressive modernization of its armed forces"



    https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/6217914

    Stoltenberg also just recently exclaimed Russia should return to the INF and CFE treaty..... lol1
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:.........
    Kinzhal is just Iskander carried and launched from an aircraft.....


    Not exactly, Kinzhal may be spin-off project of Iskander series but it's very different product

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    Post  Hole on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:05 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Fuuuuck, I thought  It couldn't be more ridiculous accusations  against Russia then "building up military presence   on NATO doorstep"  
    now I  can hear that lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1


    The Pentagon accused Russia of "aggressive modernization of its armed forces"



    https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/6217914

    In his speech Shoigu mentioned that 50.000 new showers were installed in barracks. This is clear aggression against dirt and sweat. Laughing I hope the EU is planning new sanctions against this! Wink Rolling Eyes
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    Post  kvs on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:55 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Fuuuuck, I thought  It couldn't be more ridiculous accusations  against Russia then "building up military presence   on NATO doorstep"  
    now I  can hear that lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1


    The Pentagon accused Russia of "aggressive modernization of its armed forces"



    https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/6217914

    So NATO initiates aggression against Russia by trying to convert Ukraine and Georgia into NATO members via regime change operations
    and Russia is just supposed to sit there and do nothing. Keep on wishing, morons.

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