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    Politics of Russia Thread:

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:24 pm

    TR1 wrote:Lebed was a brick. A soldier through and though.


    And a admirer of Pinochet, which leads me to believe he was a Bonapartist. Some fun facts about Pinochet: He was a puppet of the CIA and NATO sphere of intelligence circles of influence, and a fascist dictator on the model of Mussolini, Salazar, Franco, P.W. Botha. Pinochet and his fellow travelers in Chile aided in the destruction, partition, and balkanization of one of Russia's main allies (Yugoslavia) by shipping hundreds of tons of weapons illegally to the Croatian army and disguised it and made it look like humanitarian aid.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16660221

    http://www.france24.com/en/20130613-argentina-menem-prison-arms-trafficking/

    That wasn't the only time the Pentagon used proxies to cause havoc in Yugoslavia, they used Islamic fundamentalists to arm Bosnian separatists:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/22/warcrimes.comment

    ...This begs the question, why would any self-proclaimed "Russian Nationalist" admire an enemy of Russia like Agusto Pinochet?

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:41 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://www.bogema-auto.ru/cars/Tiger.php

    Inside Rogozin's Tigr. Holy shit lol.

    Hmmm.... the only thing missing is a (007 style) mini-fridge. Cool 

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    Putin

    Post  calripson on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:58 pm

    The only objective way to judge a politician is to evaluate the societal metrics during their reign in power. Now, this is inherently unfair because many of the events that influence success are external to their control, but in regards to Putin here goes:

    1. The average wage in Russia during Putin' term increased roughly 6 times
    2. Russia GDP increased roughly 5 times
    3. Russia went from 100% debt/GDP and default in 1996 to roughly 15% debt/GDP today net of a $90 billion reserve fund
    4. Russian demographics although still bad improved in terms of birth rates per fertile women by about 30%
    5. Russian measures of longevity/infant mortality all improved
    6. Russia's military went from procuring virtually no new weapons to the results we have seen this year

    A second way to measure a politicians success is to look at critical moments and how he responded. The most critical moment in Putin's career was the Georgian attack on South Ossetia. This was a gut test which Sakashvilli undertook with the full support and understanding of political elements in the USA. It was designed to show Russia (and Putin personally) as a defanged, impotent, paper tiger. Didn't quite work out that way.

    Another way to judge a politician is to view him relative to his peers: Was Putin better or worse for Russia or the USSR than Yeltsin ? Gorbachev ? Brezhnev ?

    Let me put it this way, a New York court just ordered a subsidiary of Rosneft to pay $186MM in damages relative to Yukos. There is a $100 billion lawsuit filed by Nevzlin under a similar legal theory ! (That would fund, or defund actually, the entire PAK FA, Sam 500, Sam 400, and Armata programs all put together.) Now forget the perversity of suing for damages for a company you stole from the Russian public that, coupled with other acts of corruption and theft, left a society deprived of basic wages and services and contributed to a soft genocide in the 1990s. How can a New York court have legal authority in Russia ? Yeltsin signed such a treaty in 1991 (never ratified by the Duma) ceding Russian sovereignty to an international arbitration tribunal. Somehow I doubt our terrible Mr. Putin would sign such a treaty.



    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:35 am

    calripson wrote:The only objective way to judge a politician is to evaluate the societal metrics during their reign in power. Now, this is inherently unfair because many of the events that influence success are external to their control, but in regards to Putin here goes:

    1. The average wage in Russia during Putin' term increased roughly 6 times
    2. Russia GDP increased  roughly 5 times
    3. Russia went from 100% debt/GDP and default in 1996 to roughly 15% debt/GDP today net of a $90 billion reserve fund
    4. Russian demographics although still bad improved in terms of birth rates per fertile women by about 30%
    5. Russian measures of longevity/infant mortality all improved
    6. Russia's military went from procuring virtually no new weapons to the results we have seen this year

    A second way to measure a politicians success is to look at critical moments and how he responded. The most critical moment in Putin's career was the Georgian attack on South Ossetia. This was a gut test which Sakashvilli undertook with the full support and understanding of political elements in the USA. It was designed to show Russia (and Putin personally) as a defanged, impotent, paper tiger. Didn't quite work out that way.

    Another way to judge a politician is to view him relative to his peers: Was Putin better or worse for Russia or the USSR than Yeltsin ? Gorbachev ? Brezhnev ?

    Let me put it this way, a New York court just ordered a subsidiary of Rosneft to pay $186MM in damages relative to Yukos. There is a $100 billion lawsuit filed by Nevzlin under a similar legal theory ! (That would fund, or defund actually, the entire PAK FA, Sam 500, Sam 400, and Armata programs all put together.)  Now forget the perversity of suing for damages for a company you stole from the Russian public that, coupled with other acts of corruption and theft, left a society deprived of basic wages and services and contributed to a soft genocide in the 1990s. How can a New York court have legal authority in Russia ? Yeltsin signed such a treaty in 1991 (never ratified by the Duma) ceding Russian sovereignty to an international arbitration tribunal. Somehow I doubt our terrible Mr. Putin would sign such a treaty.



    Let's not forget the violent drunk Boris Yeltsin fired tank rounds in to his parliament, and looted and raped the soviet economy, and was called an advocate of freedom, democracy, and justice by the west for doing so. Putin never fired tank shells in to a govt. building, but the west calls him a dictator for forcing billionaires to pay their past-due taxes that they owe lol!

    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:34 am

    TR1 wrote:Rogozin is a moron, that's the issue.

    Medvedev is Putin's man in any case, no difference who was up there.

    I think Putin and the rest of them are scum, but Rogozin's issue is not that he is a thief (at least doesn't appear to be). He is just a completely simpleton.

    That's pure supposition, in reality Medvedev handled Libya and relations with Washington with the exact opposite approach. Putin wanted to distance Russia from the Washington Consensus, while Medvedev wanted to embrace it with hamburger diplomacy. Putin militantly opposed the attack on Libya, while Medvedev capitulated and allowed NATO to attack. Let's not forget Georgia attacked Russia with instruction from NATO under the presidency of Medvedev, that was NATO saying out loud that they thought Medvedev was a pushover, that's something NATO would never have done under Putin. Had Putin not been in the background, Medvedev would have been Boris Yeltsin 2.0, probably granting NATO bases on Russian soil. In Western media circles Putin is a victim of a 24/7/365 campaign attacking him for putting a billionaire behind bars for tax evasion (something America should mimic), for recognizing that under the cover of an attack on Iran NATO was setting up a first-strike capability against Russia (ABM bases in Poland), and for not tolerating Islamic extremists attacking schools of children, which were all rational responses.

    You don't have to like Putin, the reality is that he's by far the best leader in the world since Franklin Delano Roosevelt from a empirical point of view. With the help of Segey Lavrov, Putin successfully embarrassed and defeated NATO strategy to kick Russia out of the Middle-East (an attack on Syria), and even re-kindled the relationship with Egypt.

    Another one of Putin's major successes was how he turned a powerful enemy in to a powerful ally. Putin can be credited with turning a former enemy of Russia (The Peoples Republic of China) to a friend, and it's an ideal alliance because neither party is subservient to another (unlike NATO), and it's both an economic and military alliance. China is becoming a growing super power, and is dependent of Russia on natural resources and raw materials on a economic level, as well as dependent on Russia militarily with growing need for Russian assistance on designing military vehicles (WZ-10, J-20, J-11, jet engines, etc.), on both fronts to a tune of tens of billions of dollars. If China were ever dumb enough to attack Russia, many of the PRC's military designs would be compromised and Russia could counter effectively, and they would be cut off from the natural resources that they desperately need, so the likeliness of China becoming an enemy again is slim-to-none. The alliance is against the common enemy called NATO, and Russia is more than willing to accept tens of billions of USD for another oil customer, in case the European Union wrecks the South/Nord stream pipeline.

    GarryB
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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:25 am

    X2


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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:05 am

    Under Yelztin and his two major oligarch families that sold out russia have forced PSA (Partner Sharing Aggreement) contracts onto russia. This PSA contracts were performed for 216 major resources of noble metals (gold,silver),gems, metals, oil,gas, timber and more. Most oil and gas facilities/refenaries were hold by British Shell and American Oil companies, on offshore on oil riges, russia had to pay rent for all workers for beds,food,helicopters who transported resources food,workers,maintenance stuff and so on, even tho this plattforms were russian plattforms.

    Since 2004, Putin managed to sue majority of this PSA aggrements and the overall annuall state budget sky rocket 3-4 times and the social sector was the years after 80x times higher than it was under Yeltzin.

    So tell me again how did Putin prevent russia for beeing billions richer than it is now?

    He is the reason why Russia was prevented to getting sucked and fucked like a bitch.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:10 am

    Medveded being Putin's man is speculation?

    Oh lord, how little you understand Russia's political structure.

    Nothing speculative about it.

    Anyways, we have gone off topic. I don't want to get us further off topic; you are certainly entitled to your views on Putin.
    I disagree almost to a point with everything, but lets just stick to Ground Forces news here.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:18 am

    TR1 wrote:Medveded being Putin's man is speculation?

    Oh lord, how little you understand Russia's political structure.

    Nothing speculative about it.

    Anyways, we have gone off topic. I don't want to get us further off topic; you are certainly entitled to your views on Putin.
    I disagree almost to a point with everything, but lets just stick to Ground Forces news here.

    Many oligarchical, plutocratic, kleptocrats and rent-seekers in the West, as well as ones in Russia such as Berezovsky were so self-assured that Putin would be just a continuation of Yeltsin, only to end up angered and disappointed.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  Regular on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:56 am

    Person like Putin was in need in his time. Now Russia needs something else than Siloviks in power. There is nothing to choose from at least at the moment. Well maybe next generation of Russian politicians will bring new wind, cause now there are too many foreign backed clowns or just plain idiots.

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    My favorite Rogozin, is getting his very own luxo-Tigr!

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:29 am

    Regular wrote:Person like Putin was in need in his time. Now Russia needs something else than Siloviks in power. There is nothing to choose from at least at the moment. Well maybe next generation of Russian politicians will bring new wind, cause now there are too many foreign backed clowns or just plain idiots.
    Im sure the guy is grooming his successor, KGB style. Imagine a young charismatic mofo with a vision and the will to make it happen oh and has all of the putins skillz and more. that guy would make the antichrist look like a community organizer.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:13 pm

    i think Navalny went again in prison

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:31 pm

    Seriously what is it with this laws and such low jail sentences?

    Heck you get 5 years in Jail if you are caught pirating or Streaming videos here in germany, while some rapists and murders get 2-3 years.

    Such traitors should get jail time for at least 20 years and that is only because i am generous, death penalty does not exist unfortunatley.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:28 am

    - but the Russian government shouldn't have put him behind bars.

    Didn't realise it was putin that gave the sentence...

    This guy got off with home detention for a fairly serious crime and he flaunts this sentence and commits contempt of court... I think 5 years is a reasonable sentence... he will be out in 2 years.

    When receiving a punishment the last thing you should do is laugh and make a joke out of it.

    Perhaps a couple of years in Prison and he will respect the law.


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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:50 pm

    Smile Zhirinovsky show



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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  Kyo on Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:24 am

    This is for you, TR1.

    Powerpoint given by Russian opposition leader in Washington blueprints US backed violent overthrow of Putin

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  kvs on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:08 am

    Kyo wrote:This is for you, TR1.

    Powerpoint given by Russian opposition leader in Washington blueprints US backed violent overthrow of Putin

    Surely the proper statement is the violent overthrow of the duly elected government of Russia. The language in this
    title is the typical agitprop one of trying to paint the whole of Russia as Putin and smearing him with being a tyrant.
    I never see this language used on Obama and the USA. Obama's regime is slaughtering civilians as part of the "war on
    terror" and engaging in spread of violent overthrow of elected governments such as in the case of Ukraine.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:31 am

    kvs wrote:
    Kyo wrote:This is for you, TR1.

    Powerpoint given by Russian opposition leader in Washington blueprints US backed violent overthrow of Putin

    Surely the proper statement is the violent overthrow of the duly elected government of Russia.    The language in this
    title is the typical agitprop one of trying to paint the whole of Russia as Putin and smearing him with being a tyrant.
    I never see this language used on Obama and the USA.   Obama's regime is slaughtering civilians as part of the "war on
    terror" and engaging in spread of violent overthrow of elected governments such as in the case of Ukraine.  

    The funny thing is, how blatant it is and open. Now his image is probably destroyed back at home. Whatever image he had that is.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  Kyo on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:44 pm

    More Russians expect protests but most won't participate - poll

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:58 pm

    "World knows NATO is planting protests in Russia, but Russians don't give a ****"

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  kvs on Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:56 am

    Kyo wrote:More Russians expect protests but most won't participate - poll

    They need excuses why the turnout to these liberast demonstrations is so pathetically small. The western sponsored liberast fringe
    can't succeed at the poll and on the street through mob action, so they make up fairy tales about how the majority of Russians
    are really on their side.

    If the majority of Russians lived in Canada for a a few decades like I have, they would nothing to do with the west. There is
    nothing to admire and salivate for the western self-described utopia. It's just more human society with the standard problems.
    The main difference is that the west is afflicted with a superiority complex and thinks it has "moral authority" to crusade against
    the rest of the world.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:52 am

    What do they mean by fall of living standards in Russia? How did the exchange rate all of a sudden drop the living standards? How is that even possible? Do people still have a house, access to drinkable water, food on the table and a roof over their head? How many people have TV's? How many of those TV's are LCD/LED? Do they have access to such technologies?

    The answer to all of these are Yes, they do. They can purchase what they want. And majority have a roof over their head (and not have to pay a mortgage) with drinkable water and food on the table. So how did the living standards fall?

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  kvs on Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:28 am

    sepheronx wrote:What do they mean by fall of living standards in Russia?  How did the exchange rate all of a sudden drop the living standards?  How is that even possible?  Do people still have a house, access to drinkable water, food on the table and a roof over their head?  How many people have TV's?  How many of those TV's are LCD/LED?  Do they have access to such technologies?

    The answer to all of these are Yes, they do.  They can purchase what they want.  And majority have a roof over their head (and not have to pay a mortgage) with drinkable water and food on the table.  So how did the living standards fall?

    This is yet another talking point.   They are trying to create reality by getting people to believe a lie.   Living standards cannot
    fall this fast.   The supply of consumers goods has not disappeared in Russia.   People have their jobs and they can buy their
    food for the same price as a year ago (minus the routine year on year increase).   Perhaps some Dutch cheese is now 70% more
    expensive.   But this can hardly be used to measure the standard of living.

    I see a pattern here.   The situation in the USA and Canada and the EU is really bad in terms of the economy.   Food prices
    in Canada are jumping like crazy.   And we have this hysterical focus on events in Russia.   It is an obvious diversion away
    from domestic problems.

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  Kyo on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:53 pm

    Is it true or West trying to drive a wedge into Russian government?

    Russian Insider wrote:Putin-Medvedev Divorce? It's Only a Matter of Time

    President Putin is about to dismiss Prime Minister Medvedev over the latter's appeasing attitude towards the West, according to Panorama, Italy's leading political weekly

    Daniele Pozzati Wed, Jan 28

    Putin regards Medvedev as “too soft with Barack Obama and the European leaders," writes Panorama's Moscow correspondent Cristina Giuliano.

    She quotes, among others, Russian political scientists Alena Ledeneva of University College London: “Medvedev might even resign, maybe not immediately, but as soon as the economic situation will stabilize a little”.

    Medvedev originally fell out of favor with the Siloviki—Kremlin's strong men, whom The Saker refers to as “Eurasian sovereignists”—during the 2011 Libya crisis, when Western intervention led to the toppling of Muammar Gaddafi.

    A Russian documentary film on the Libya crisis openly accused him of “treason” for his compliant, pro-Western handling of the crisis, and supine acceptance of its outcome.

    Among the first Siloviki to point the finger at Medvedev were Evgeny Primakov, former prime minister and head of Russia's foreign secret services, and Vladimir Chamov, Russian ambassador to Libya at the time of the crisis, removed for objecting to the very toppling of Gaddafi.

    Retired general Leonid Ivashov said during the Libya documentary: “Unfortunately Russian presidents cannot be prosecuted for treason”.

    Putin's comeback as President was especially cheered by the Siloviki during the 2013 Syria crisis. Had Medvedev been there, another area under Russian influence would have been “sold out” to the West.

    How the US reacted to Russia stop playing balls with an ever-expanding West we learned last year: by organizing a coup next to Russian borders, and turning Ukraine into a neo-Nazi killing ground.

    And, as we have recently reported, there are signs that Russia has stopped believing in the essential goodwill of the West. The offensive carried out by the rebels in Mariupol on Sunday was followed by Putin describing the Ukraine army as a “NATO legion aimed at restraining Russia.”

    In this rapidly deteriorating climate, a pro-Western prime minister is simply not the right man for the job. With the likely demise of Medvedev, the West has again done its cause yet another disservice.

    Is a possible rebel takeover of the whole of Donbass what a tough Russian prime minister would like to force upon the West? If so, exciting times lie ahead!

    Panorama also mentions “a series of scandals with the Medvedev government: from bed time affairs and corruption that have ensnared former Defense Minister Anatoly Serdjukov, as well as Education Minister Dmitry Livanov’s troubles. His dismissal has been requested even by the staid Academy of Sciences.”

    According to Panorama's source, “Medvedev himself has tight relationships with the West. And the West plays on them to advance its desires. All of this cannot please Putin's men.”

    Who will take over? Rumors abound.

    A much-talked about candidate is Alexei Kudrin, a semi-liberal, and former Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.

    Other rumors point to Dmitry Rogozin, the current Deputy Prime Minister, and a hardliner.

    Or maybe Andrej Vorobiov, born 1970, current governor of the rich Moscow region. TIME recently described him as the rising star in Putin's United Russia party.

    Medvedev's eventual resignation could follow what Panorama's source calls: “a sortie à la Yeltsin, because in Moscow we don't wash our dirty laundry in public”.

    Alexei Kudrin... that smartass?

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    Re: Politics of Russia Thread:

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:25 pm

    Nah, I doubt it is true. Seeing as how Putin himself had supported Medvedev. They apparently had disagreements but Medvedev isn't some sort of 5th coloumnist. He is quite pro Russian is very supportive of Crimea and about liberalisation of Russia's private enterprises.

    He just has a very bad reputation due to the Libya crisis. He was more or less convinced to support the NATO engagement, cause I doubt he knew what exactly was going to happen, as he was more than likely lied to. But afterwards, I noticed he hasn't been pushing here and there for all good relations and everything with the west.

    This just sounds like typical media smut.

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