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    Russian Radar systems

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    mack8
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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  mack8 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:00 pm

    Victor1985, you have been suggested before, why don't you open a specific thread dedicated to asking whatever questions that you have, you have littered all topics with very elementary and simplistic questions that serves only to derail the discussions on the specific themes in those topics and burry actual important and relevant news on said themes.


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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:12 pm

    I saw on wikipedia that a lock in amplifier is made from a homodyne detector and a low pass filter. Well some short explanations would be wellcomed. Question: low pass filter what does measuring the electric or magnetic field of radio waves? There can be made a low pass filter for the magnetic field? Or i am wrong and the radar just measure the the electric current?

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:14 pm

    Noise can be reduced whit a parabollic antena that makes the opposite to concentrate waves?

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:15 pm

    In combination whit a delayer for waves

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:03 pm

    victor1985 wrote:How russia stay whit this
    Lock in amplifier
    Can someone explain in simple terms what is noise and lock in amplifier? Few formulas would be well wellcomed

    Lock-in amplifiers have been nothing special for Russia for a long time.


    An RF lock-in amplifier nonlinearly mixes the input signal with a sinusoid that has a frequency equal to the signal's carrier frequency (in effect multiplying them) and then applies low-frequency filtering to the mixer output. The output would be a noise-filtered demodulation of the input signal.


    Optical lock-in amps are defined slightly differently. Of course, the technology is very different.


    Deriving the equations in time domain to illustrate the major points of an analog lock-in amplifier can be done as follows:

    1- Take, let's say, an AM input signal and multiply it with a sinusoid that has a frequency equal to the signal's carrier frequency.

    2- Apply trigonometric identities to convert the multiplicative expression to a summation.

    3- The lowest frequency components are the demodulated signal plus a bias.

    4- Suitable low-pass filtering "filters out" all excepts the two lowest frequency components, which, of course, are the demodulated signal plus the bias.


    Any difficulties with the above derivation, just ask and I'll do it and post it when I have a little bit of time.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:53 pm

    Ok thanks you very much.
    What i didnt understand: multiply whit a sinusoidal? what that means? How asignal can be multiply?

    Wait i think i got it. You have 4 frecvencyes that come A yours A of enemy B and C. To find wich A is yours you amplify signal that all A to be seen. Is that corect?

    And trigonometric identities also i didnt understanded.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:57 pm

    Well i readed again. Amplify whit a sinusoid. Mean exacly what? You make frecvency or carrier frecvency bigger to the AM from your example?

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:09 pm

    victor1985 wrote:Ok thanks you very much.
    What i didnt understand: multiply whit a sinusoidal? what that means? How asignal can be multiply?

    Wait i think i got it. You have 4 frecvencyes that come A yours A of enemy B and C. To find wich A is yours you amplify signal that all A to be seen. Is that corect?

    And trigonometric identities also i didnt understanded.


    victor1985 wrote:Well i readed again. Amplify whit a sinusoid. Mean exacly what? You make frecvency or carrier frecvency bigger to the AM from your example?


    Victor,

    I'll answer these questions in the "Questions and Ideas" thread.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  putinboss on Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:43 pm

    I heard a rumour that the east german mig-29s radar where a little more better that the radars on the f-15 and f-16,

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:34 pm

    In terms of power and resolution and ECCM capability, they were better, but in terms of different operating modes and multi role capability they were not as good.


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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:08 pm

    I know radio waves are best for see all thinking of energy required but....can be maibe done a field of antennas that can pass trought clouds whit microwaves? Would consume huge energi but the accuracy would be faw better. Also lets think that at a surface of a material is no straight line so even invisible planes reflect waves in all parts.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:10 pm

    Also a microwave fries up the enemy devices because of his high temperature that powers up

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 03, 2015 2:23 am

    Unbelievable, Viktor and GarryB will love this! Rostec just dropped a bombshell the size of the Tsar Bomba!!! As I already pointed out the strategic importance to develop 'Photonics' (lasers replacing electrons in electronics, a field backed by the Foundation for Strategic Studies). This Rostec article recognizes that the domestic electronics industry is significantly behind the West, and also the strategic importance in jumping ahead of everyone in the field of 'Photonics'. It documents the potential of 'Photonics' when it's fully developed, and the success of KRET developing the field photonics and it's application in radars, with very promising results in the field while it's in it's infancy.


    Some VERY important data points in the article:

    1.) Electronics based on photonics will have decreased the need for 'servers' down to 1/100th the current level, and will increase the data transfer rate by 10 fold!

    2.) When fully mature photonics will allow truck based radars to have the same power, resolution, and capability as massive OTH radars!

    3.) KRET's early work in radiophotonics (photonics based radars) are incredibly promising. Developments in the field while it's in it's infancy allows airborne radars (AEW while based on photonics) weight to be cut down 1/2 the current weight, and increased the resolution by 10 fold!

    4.) Photonic based radars will have it's ECM resistance grow by several orders of magnitude! Will be heavily resistant to electro-magnetic storms...

    5.) By the 2020's photonic based AESA radars will grow by leaps and bounds in capability. The weight of AESA radar will be cut down by 1.5 to 3 times, increase the reliability and efficiency by 2 to 3 times, and increase the scanning speed and resolution by several dozen times that of contemporary AESA radars!

    6.) Photonics can also be effectively applied in housing, for example, in urban and rural heating systems. Instead of hot water energy photons will be used. They will be distributed in photonic crystal fibers with a thickness of human hair, the energy of which is converted into heat with almost 100% efficiency!

    KRET creates a laboratory for research in Photonics

    The group has been developing radar and EW systems based on new technologies



    In recent years, electronic systems all often replaced on the photon. Linked it in the first turn with a different physical nature of the photon. That same is a photon and what unique capabilities of military technology will provide a new direction – believe that radio Photonics?

    Faster electron

    Photonics is essentially analogue electronics, are used instead of electrons are quanta of the electromagnetic field – photons. These are the most common number of particles in the Universe, unlike electrons, do not have mass and charge. Therefore, photonic systems are not affected by external electromagnetic fields, have much better transmission range and bandwidth of the signal.

    As a field of science Photonics began in 1960 with the invention of the first important technical devices using photons, laser. The very term "Photonics" began to be widely used in the 1980-ies in connection with the beginning of widespread use of optical fiber transmission. By the way, in our country the first development of such fiber optic cables engaged in the design Bureau of the cable industry, now part of KRET.

    We can say that these developments have made a revolution in telecommunications in the last century and became the basis for the development of the Internet. Actually, until about 2001 Photonics was largely focused on the telecommunications.

    Today "telecommunication" Photonics helps in the creation of a new direction – radio Photonics, which arose from the fusion of electronics, wave optics, microwave optoelectronics and other fields of science and industrial production.

    In other words, believe that radio Photonics deals with the problems of transmission, reception and transformation of information by using electromagnetic waves of microwave range and photonic devices and systems. Believe that radio Photonics allows you to create radio frequency devices with the options that are unattainable for traditional electronics.

    Modern radio apparatus moves in the optical range, and ignoring this fact often leads to very serious consequences. For example, initially in the design of information and telecommunication, service and technical networks of the super-Jumbo A380 were not included photonic network. Used aluminum cable, and its length was more than 500 km away. This has led to serious problems on Board the aircraft. For their decision required a full replacement of all cable networks on each side of which was built for the A380. The result – two years of delays and almost 5 billion euros in financial losses, and the largest Corporation narrowly escaped financial collapse.



    Radiophony breakthrough

    In microelectronics Russia, as you know, behind the Western countries. It is through technologies in the field of radio Photonics invited to compete. Today Russian scientists in the sphere of defense technologies consider it impossible to give up electrons and to pay attention to the photons which have no mass and fly faster.

    According to experts, servers, operating on the principles of Photonics, decreased a hundred times compared to the current, and the data transfer rate would be increased tenfold.

    Or, for example, a ground radar station. Today, this radar is a multi-storey building, but if you start to believe that radio Photonics work, then the station can be installed on a conventional truck. The efficiency and range will be exactly the same – thousands of kilometers. Several mobile and small complexes can be combined into a network, which will increase characteristics of these radars.


    Believe that radio Photonics instead of electronics

    Photonic technologies will significantly expand the capabilities and airborne radars. New developments in this area more than twice reduce the weight of existing antennas and radars, tenfold increase their resolution. Also radiophonic antennas will be a unique resistance to electromagnetic pulses, which occur, for example, during close lightning strikes or when solar magnetic storms.

    All this will create a broadband radars that level of resolution and speed can be called radar vision. Such system is also planned in the civil sphere, for example, on high-speed trains for instant detection of obstacles on the tracks.

    Photonics can also be effectively applied in housing, for example, in urban and rural heating systems. Instead of hot water energy will act photons. They will be distributed in photonic crystal fibers with a thickness of human hair, the energy of which is converted into heat with almost 100% efficiency.

    Laboratory of the future

    In Russia radiophonie technology develops KRET. Today, the group and the Foundation for advanced studies working on a promising project "Development of active phased array-based radio Photonics" (ROPAR). The project includes the creation of a special laboratory on the basis of the Concern and the development of universal technology, which will be the basis for radar and electronic warfare systems for the new generation.

    According to KRET CEO Nikolai Kolesov, the latest technology will allow in 2020 to create an effective and advanced transmitting / receiving apparatus, radar, electronic intelligence and electronic countermeasures of the new generation.

    One of the main areas of work will be the creation of an active phased array (AESA) of the new generation, in which the main elements were created using the principles of radio Photonics. They will reduce the weight of the system is 1.5-3 times increase in 2-3 times the reliability and efficiency, as well as dozens of times to increase the scanning speed and resolution.


    If successful, the technology will open up new opportunities for improving the "smart skin" that will be on the Russian aircraft of the latest generation, including the PAK FA. Such a system of built-in elements throughout the area of the fuselage will allow the crew to get in any time solid radar picture within a radius of 360 degrees, will provide for the operation of antenna systems in active and passive radar, raising all kinds of noise, secretive and noise-immune data transmission, communication with the ground and other aircraft, hoopsnake and more.

    In addition, on the basis of new materials and elements, created on the basis of the principles of Photonics, KRET will learn the advanced technologies of high-power photodetectors and semiconductor laser modules.

    KRET creates a laboratory for research in the field of photonics

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 03, 2015 9:43 am

    Big news...thanks for posting

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 03, 2015 8:54 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Big news...thanks for posting

    I think the article gave us an outline on what will make up the characteristics of a 2nd-gen AESA. The raw capability, as well as what compromises the elements of the next gen AESA. It wont be just a new radar emitting element, made up of a different chemical composition, it will also include made up of photonic equipment (where the true capability will come from).

    The article also specifically stated that the PAK-FA will be one of the first receipts of a 2nd gen photonic based AESA.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 04, 2015 6:26 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Big news...thanks for posting

    I think the article gave us an outline on what will make up the characteristics of a 2nd-gen AESA. The raw capability, as well as what compromises the elements of the next gen AESA. It wont be just a new radar emitting element, made up of a different chemical composition, it will also include made up of photonic equipment (where the true capability will come from).

    The article also specifically stated that the PAK-FA will be one of the first receipts of a 2nd gen photonic based AESA.

    I was curious what you were saying by second generation Photon AESA, since current AESA isn't technically technology using photons. But you are right, after re-reading what you are saying, next gen technology being of AESA radar systems built around photons will surely be impressive and new. Problem is about saying "technologically backwards" is not necessarily correct. If you follow the same path as the west, you will always be behind because one is not trying to create something new or different, but trying to create the same while they create the standards and it is always a game of catchup, but being able to create your own standard and your own technology that isn't direct competitor but something else entirely, is where you will be ahead, especially if what you create brings your own benefits. It is like in semiconductor technology - Russia is definitely behind in x86 processing technology but that is because they don't create it, while they are ahead of the west in VLIW RISC technology since Intel dropped their Itanium line of processors and Russia is having far better performance outcome with their VLIW processors. Or the introduction of Microclets none Vonn Newmann cell processors.

    Anyway, without digressing, thank you for the link. This is surely going to be huge and KRET along with Rostec knows exactly what they need to do to keep up and be ahead in the game. Rostec has shown that being a NGO itself, they have been very effective of what they do (check out Schwabs achievements for example).

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:09 pm

    Well i try to understand jamming. Is about noise. So i guess longest the message is less chances are that noise produce the message randomly. So what part of a radar occur whit message receiving and see it between noise?

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:14 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Unbelievable, Viktor and GarryB will love this! Rostec just dropped a bombshell the size of the Tsar Bomba!!! As I already pointed out the strategic importance to develop 'Photonics' (lasers replacing electrons in electronics, a field backed by the Foundation for Strategic Studies). This Rostec article recognizes that the domestic electronics industry is significantly behind the West, and also the strategic importance in jumping ahead of everyone in the field of 'Photonics'. It documents the potential of 'Photonics' when it's fully developed, and the success of KRET developing the field photonics and it's application in radars, with very promising results in the field while it's in it's infancy.


    Some VERY important data points in the article:

    1.) Electronics based on photonics will have decreased the need for 'servers' down to 1/100th the current level, and will increase the data transfer rate by 10 fold!

    2.) When fully mature photonics will allow truck based radars to have the same power, resolution, and capability as massive OTH radars!

    3.) KRET's early work in radiophotonics (photonics based radars) are incredibly promising. Developments in the field while it's in it's infancy allows airborne radars (AEW while based on photonics) weight to be cut down 1/2 the current weight, and increased the resolution by 10 fold!

    4.) Photonic based radars will have it's ECM resistance grow by several orders of magnitude! Will be heavily resistant to electro-magnetic storms...

    5.) By the 2020's photonic based AESA radars will grow by leaps and bounds in capability. The weight of AESA radar will be cut down by 1.5 to 3 times, increase the reliability and efficiency by 2 to 3 times, and increase the scanning speed and resolution by several dozen times that of contemporary AESA radars!

    6.) Photonics can also be effectively applied in housing, for example, in urban and rural heating systems. Instead of hot water energy photons will be used. They will be distributed in photonic crystal fibers with a thickness of human hair, the energy of which is converted into heat with almost 100% efficiency!

    KRET creates a laboratory for research in Photonics

    The group has been developing radar and EW systems based on new technologies



    In recent years, electronic systems all often replaced on the photon. Linked it in the first turn with a different physical nature of the photon. That same is a photon and what unique capabilities of military technology will provide a new direction – believe that radio Photonics?

    Faster electron

    Photonics is essentially analogue electronics, are used instead of electrons are quanta of the electromagnetic field – photons. These are the most common number of particles in the Universe, unlike electrons, do not have mass and charge. Therefore, photonic systems are not affected by external electromagnetic fields, have much better transmission range and bandwidth of the signal.

    As a field of science Photonics began in 1960 with the invention of the first important technical devices using photons, laser. The very term "Photonics" began to be widely used in the 1980-ies in connection with the beginning of widespread use of optical fiber transmission. By the way, in our country the first development of such fiber optic cables engaged in the design Bureau of the cable industry, now part of KRET.

    We can say that these developments have made a revolution in telecommunications in the last century and became the basis for the development of the Internet. Actually, until about 2001 Photonics was largely focused on the telecommunications.

    Today "telecommunication" Photonics helps in the creation of a new direction – radio Photonics, which arose from the fusion of electronics, wave optics, microwave optoelectronics and other fields of science and industrial production.

    In other words, believe that radio Photonics deals with the problems of transmission, reception and transformation of information by using electromagnetic waves of microwave range and photonic devices and systems. Believe that radio Photonics allows you to create radio frequency devices with the options that are unattainable for traditional electronics.

    Modern radio apparatus moves in the optical range, and ignoring this fact often leads to very serious consequences. For example, initially in the design of information and telecommunication, service and technical networks of the super-Jumbo A380 were not included photonic network. Used aluminum cable, and its length was more than 500 km away. This has led to serious problems on Board the aircraft. For their decision required a full replacement of all cable networks on each side of which was built for the A380. The result – two years of delays and almost 5 billion euros in financial losses, and the largest Corporation narrowly escaped financial collapse.



    Radiophony breakthrough

    In microelectronics Russia, as you know, behind the Western countries. It is through technologies in the field of radio Photonics invited to compete. Today Russian scientists in the sphere of defense technologies consider it impossible to give up electrons and to pay attention to the photons which have no mass and fly faster.

    According to experts, servers, operating on the principles of Photonics, decreased a hundred times compared to the current, and the data transfer rate would be increased tenfold.

    Or, for example, a ground radar station. Today, this radar is a multi-storey building, but if you start to believe that radio Photonics work, then the station can be installed on a conventional truck. The efficiency and range will be exactly the same – thousands of kilometers. Several mobile and small complexes can be combined into a network, which will increase characteristics of these radars.


    Believe that radio Photonics instead of electronics

    Photonic technologies will significantly expand the capabilities and airborne radars. New developments in this area more than twice reduce the weight of existing antennas and radars, tenfold increase their resolution. Also radiophonic antennas will be a unique resistance to electromagnetic pulses, which occur, for example, during close lightning strikes or when solar magnetic storms.

    All this will create a broadband radars that level of resolution and speed can be called radar vision. Such system is also planned in the civil sphere, for example, on high-speed trains for instant detection of obstacles on the tracks.

    Photonics can also be effectively applied in housing, for example, in urban and rural heating systems. Instead of hot water energy will act photons. They will be distributed in photonic crystal fibers with a thickness of human hair, the energy of which is converted into heat with almost 100% efficiency.

    Laboratory of the future

    In Russia radiophonie technology develops KRET. Today, the group and the Foundation for advanced studies working on a promising project "Development of active phased array-based radio Photonics" (ROPAR). The project includes the creation of a special laboratory on the basis of the Concern and the development of universal technology, which will be the basis for radar and electronic warfare systems for the new generation.

    According to KRET CEO Nikolai Kolesov, the latest technology will allow in 2020 to create an effective and advanced transmitting / receiving apparatus, radar, electronic intelligence and electronic countermeasures of the new generation.

    One of the main areas of work will be the creation of an active phased array (AESA) of the new generation, in which the main elements were created using the principles of radio Photonics. They will reduce the weight of the system is 1.5-3 times increase in 2-3 times the reliability and efficiency, as well as dozens of times to increase the scanning speed and resolution.


    If successful, the technology will open up new opportunities for improving the "smart skin" that will be on the Russian aircraft of the latest generation, including the PAK FA. Such a system of built-in elements throughout the area of the fuselage will allow the crew to get in any time solid radar picture within a radius of 360 degrees, will provide for the operation of antenna systems in active and passive radar, raising all kinds of noise, secretive and noise-immune data transmission, communication with the ground and other aircraft, hoopsnake and more.

    In addition, on the basis of new materials and elements, created on the basis of the principles of Photonics, KRET will learn the advanced technologies of high-power photodetectors and semiconductor laser modules.

    KRET creates a laboratory for research in the field of photonics
    Is this based on laser tehnology or how? Photons are free in reactions like in reactors. So how they free photons? Else only laser can be.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:19 pm

    I dont understand. Somehow wires are replaced by photons? Or the radar waves are replaced by photons?

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:20 pm

    If is top secret no problem. Dont mind.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri May 08, 2015 8:28 pm

    victor1985 wrote:I dont understand. Somehow wires are replaced by photons? Or the radar waves are replaced by photons?

    You replace electrons in electronics, with photons (laser beams) from photonics. So instead of having electronics that makes up a system, you have photonics that make up a system.

    It's comparable to going from making naval warships out of wood, to making naval warships out of metal...or making fighter jets from steel, then transitioning to making fighter jets out of titanium, and carbon fiber synthetic composites.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:40 pm

    Well there is a big problem: photons travel at the speed of light. What kind of computer could interprete data that comes at the speed of light? And what device could understand dwta that comes at that speed? Because you understand that must be a device that transform photon flux into readable data.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:45 pm

    Similar can be done whit electromagnetic waves. But is missing the device. Maibe whit another kind of cpu maibe a system whitout cpu. Maibe a plasma display or others....

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 08, 2015 8:47 pm

    It must be a device that react and display at the speed of light.

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat May 09, 2015 6:39 am

    Is it similar to Li-Fi ? which is a wireless communication system using light

    A Russian company has developed a Li-Fi system and is marketing it internationaly under the name "Beamcaster"






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