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    Russian Radar systems

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    Vann7

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    Russian Radar systems - Page 14 Empty Anyone have heard of Sunflower radar?

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:16 pm



    Anyone have heard of Sunflower radar?
    Russia have the ability to see over the horizon without any external aid ,like patrol aircrafts
    or boats. The radar will detect not only planes beyond the horizon line of sight.. about ~50km.
    but also all the way to 450km ,by sending a signal that follows the curvature of the water surface.

    This is truly a major development in radar technology , when radars can up to 300 boats and planes movements. up to 450km away and without any deployment of airforce or navy to extend the radar view. This means Russia right now have complete full monitoring capabilities of anything that happens in Baltic sea ,caspian sea or black sea in the water or above it, up to 450km distance from the radar. really interested stuff. and if all that was not good enough
    to deter mass waves of surprise attacks ,flying low. Sunflower radars can also see F-35.

    apparently the Sunflower radar is already operating in Sea of Okhotsk, the Sea of Japan and the Caspian Sea.

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160710/1042734198/f35-engine-radar.html


    Wondering if NATO also developed and in service over the horizon surface wave radars.
    This technology can also significantly save a lot of money in patrols , since the radars will keep
    updated Russia with every movement in the water and over it up to 450km away.

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    Austin

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    Russian Radar systems - Page 14 Empty Russian Strategic Air Defence

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:59 pm

    Yes Sunflower is younger brother of Container OTH radar
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:33 pm

    Austin wrote:Yes Sunflower is younger brother of Container OTH radar
    This I put up so that some of you can have a smile. It is the infamous David Axe on the Sunflower. You will enjoy the comments. Just wish Milatrov was still here with his gems of Serbian SAM wisdom.

    https://warisboring.com/dont-sweat-russia-s-stealth-fighter-detecting-new-radar-94ce6fc66883#.9f6ku5upo
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:50 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Austin wrote:Yes Sunflower is younger brother of Container OTH radar
    This I put up so that some of you can have a smile. It is the infamous David Axe on the Sunflower. You will enjoy the comments. Just wish Milatrov was still here with his gems of Serbian SAM wisdom.

    https://warisboring.com/dont-sweat-russia-s-stealth-fighter-detecting-new-radar-94ce6fc66883#.9f6ku5upo

    Ooh god, not this BS argument again, "so you can see our uber-stealth fighters, but you can't target us, because reasons", this pathetic excuse isn't exclusive to Mr.Axe here, it has become quiet common, it came from Military and Defense industry officials desperately trying to save there a$$.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:10 pm

    Russia will station additional Podsolnukh (Sunflower) radars that are capable of detecting cutting-edge stealth aircraft, including Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II and F-22 Raptor, to protect the country's exclusive economic zones in the extreme North, the Baltic Sea and Crimea in 2017, Rossiyskaya Gazeta reported.

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160810/1044129781/russia-podsolnukh-radar.html
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:11 pm

    Russian scientists have increased the accuracy of the optical radar (LIDAR) 10 fold
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    Post  Airman on Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:31 pm

    franco wrote:New Russian radar capable of spotting stealth aircraft being deployed;

    http://en.ria.ru/science/20160702/1042341025/russia-podsolnukh-radar-f35.html

    I found this photo about that radar.

    Russian Radar systems - Page 14 Podsolnuh-E_MVMS-2007_05

    It looks realy different.
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    Post  franco on Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:23 am

    65th Anniversary of Radar Troops;

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12106257@egNews
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    Austin

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    Russian Radar systems - Page 14 Empty General VKS explained how the radar troops recognize aircraft stealth

    Post  Austin on Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:22 pm

    General VKS explained how the radar troops recognize aircraft stealth

    https://life.ru/t/%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%BA/948211/ghienieral_vks_obiasnil_kak_radiotiekhnichieskiie_voiska_raspoznaiut_samolioty-nievidimki


    To detect aircraft with reduced visibility, radar troops of the Russian Federation using locators that are effective in the centimeter, decimeter and meter wavelengths, said the head of the radio Life forces VKS Russian Major-General Andrew Coban.

    - To date, the aircraft carried out under the "Stealth", it is not difficult to detect the object for radio engineering troops. We discover them by means of radar. Due to what is achieved?


    This is achieved through the use of radar raznodiapazonnyh. Technology "Stealth", they are effective in the centimeter wavelength range, in the decimeter wavelength range, but this efficiency is significantly reduced in the meter band. Physics can not be fooled. We use multi-band means, one such means, as I said, are radars "Sky-M" and the entire range radars "Heaven", such as "Sky-Y", "Sky-PA", "Sky-MM". All these multiband radar, so through the use of multi-band, integrated application of radar, we can detect all aircraft, including those carried out by "stealth" technology, - said Andrey Coban.

    He also noted that the radar troops detect aircraft not only near the borders of Russia, but also at a great distance from them.

    - On -TERM means the radar can detect objects at low, medium and high altitudes with serious boundaries detection. They are measured in hundreds of kilometers. Equipment and structure of radio troops can detect airborne targets, including reconnaissance aircraft, not only approaching the state border of the Russian Federation, but also far beyond the borders - said Coban.

    December 15, 2016 marks 65 years since the founding of the Russian troops VCS radio. Radio engineering troops give out information about the beginning of the air attacks of the enemy, the combat information for the anti-aircraft missile forces and air defenses, as well as information for call control, air defense units and divisions.

    The technology "Stealth" - a set of methods to reduce the visibility of combat vehicles in different areas of the detection range.
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    HM1199

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    Russian Radar systems - Page 14 Empty NEBO M complex

    Post  HM1199 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:05 pm

    can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?
    also , can someone explain how does that ''multispectral queing" thing works ?
    thank you Very Happy
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:10 pm

    HM1199 wrote:can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?
    also , can someone explain how does that ''multispectral queing" thing works ?
    thank you Very Happy


    Without any trouble, from 100s of kilometres.

    The the wavelength works together, say if you see strong response from the NEBO,and very weak from the fire control radar then it is a stealth aircraft : )


    It is works like the colours, the black and white picture carry less data and information than a colour one.



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    Post  HM1199 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:31 pm

    thanks for the answer singular transform , and can the Nebo-M generate a missile guiding track at long distances as well?
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    Post  Guest on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:42 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    HM1199 wrote:can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?
    also , can someone explain how does that ''multispectral queing" thing works ?
    thank you Very Happy


    Without any trouble, from 100s of kilometres.

    The the wavelength works together, say if you see strong response from the NEBO,and very weak from the fire control radar then it is a stealth aircraft : )


    It is works like the colours, the black and white picture carry less data and information than a colour one.




    From million miles. It actually can detect aircraft flying in Mars orbit.
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    Post  Guest on Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:27 am

    HM1199 wrote:can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?
    also , can someone explain how does that ''multispectral queing" thing works ?
    thank you Very Happy

    You want real answer? We dont know.

    Also depends what you call "reasonable distance".

    Here you have decent article on radars in general, both "meter" and "decimeter" wavelenght ones: http://www.radioamatore.info/attachments/article/1773/NNIIRT-55Zh6M-Nebo-M-VHF-Radar-1S.pdf

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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:30 am

    F-22 and F-35 are optimised to evade the signals from X band radars because that was the most common tracking radar frequency and still is.

    the problem for the stealth aircraft of today and near future is that NEBO uses three different frequency ranges that are each rather different.

    NEBO is very big and rather powerful compared with the seeker in a missiles nose or an aircraft nose so even the X band component of the system will offer better detection performance against stealth aircraft.

    Most small RCS items and even large RCS items can be stealthy if mistaken for clutter... an An-2 flying at low level at near its stall speed of 75km/h was feared to be the first effective stealth aircraft in that look down radars that could detect it could also detect cars on a motorway doing 100km/h so to remove the cars and other ground based fast moving objects the An-2s flying in that airspace would also be removed from the display as noise.

    For the same reason a low flying F-35 might be removed to prevent golf balls and birds appearing on the radar screen except the flight speed of the F-35 (at more than 150km/h) would mean it would clearly not be a golf ball or bird so even look down radars would display it if enough of a return signal could be detected.

    Long wave radar signals are not effected by the shaping of the aircraft so stealth shapes wont effect the detection range of metric wave radar and coatings are not thick enough to have much effect either.

    You need a much bigger aircraft (closer in size to the radar wave length) to effect longer wave radar signals... like the B-2.

    Newer radar technology including Photonic radar may change things dramatically though.
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    Russian Radar systems - Page 14 Empty russian radars

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:53 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    From million miles. It actually can detect aircraft flying in Mars orbit.

    The Russian radars are not capable to do that, but of course the US military doesn't know the meaning of impossible : )

    https://warisboring.com/the-u-s-navys-next-hawkeye-plane-can-detect-stealth-fighters-51023944fcbe

    they write about the capability of Hawakeye :
    “It is the physics of longer wavelength and resonance that enables VHF and UHF radar to detect stealth aircraft,” Westra wrote in his article, titled “Radar vs. Stealth.”

    UHF-band radars operate at frequencies between 300 MHz and one GHz, which results in wavelengths that are between 10 centimeters and one meter long. Typically, due to the physical characteristics of fighter-sized stealth aircraft, they must be optimized to defeat higher frequencies in the Ka, Ku, X, C and parts of the S-bands.


    So, just to compare: the hawkeye has a 7.3*0.7 meter big radar, the NEBO-M 60*6 meter big.

    The Nebo 70 times bigger than the hawkeye radar.



    Feel the difference?


    so either the US military lie , or the NEBO-M can detect the f-22/35 from extreme distances : )
    Pick your choice.

    You can trash now the US military, and bragging about the incapability of them : ) and how rubbish the US navy and the hawkeye.


    But the principle of operation to detect stealth is simple, and using the same principle like this antenna:
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    Post  HM1199 on Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:46 pm

    thanks for the replies guys , so from all that we can deduce the s400 using nebo m or gamma DE can actually be a potent stealth hunter ?
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:30 am

    Not just stealth aircraft...

    Incoming ballistic missile warheads have a small RCS too and need to be tracked and engaged...
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    Post  medo on Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:23 am

    Nebo-M AESA complex consist from 3 radars, 1 VHF working in metric diapazone, 1 working in dm diapazone and 1 working in cm diapazone. Max range is 600 km. VHF radar see stealth planes without problem and having more Nebo-M complexes in different locations mean, that they could triangulate stealth planes very precisely for the use of air defense and fighter jets.

    Older Nebo-SVU VHF radar, which was the first AESA VHF radar, have enough small cell for target location, that S-300 complex could launch missile on it without using of tracing radar. It was used only to guide missile to the cell of Nebo-SVU radar and there missile itself will find and attack the target. No need for tracking radar to actually see the target.

    Modwern AESA VHF radars are precise enough for air defense use, specially when there is more of them in different locations and they triangulate targets. In that case stealth doesn't mean any advantage. SHORADs and medium range SAMs will use optical channels against stealth planes, so for them VHF radar is enough. Don't forget that Russian IADS also have a lot of different passive ELINT complexes, which could detect any emmiting from planes and stealth F-22 and F-35 also use radars, data links, TACAN, communications, IFF, etc, so they will be precisely tracked from long distances for the use of air defense.
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:29 am

    HM1199 wrote:can someone tell me , at what range a NEBO M complex can detect an f22 or an f35? or at least if it can detect it from a reasonable distance?

    this actually difficult to said.

    However the VHF band will roughly give 7 times the detection range of X-band assuming same power and antenna gain. Thus low 0.0001 sqm target that detectable in X-band will roughly be detected in 210 Km by VHF band.

    So basically yeah..it should be detected at reasonable distance. The only limit would be Horizon.
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    Post  HM1199 on Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:17 pm

    hmm i see thanks for the information guys , yes so if the radar detects the airdraft (RCS 0.1 m2) from 240 km in the decimeter band then in the xband range will be higher .
    However about the Nebo M , i hear all around that the "range is 600 km " , but against what ? and in which band ? because its multispectral so i dont know . Does someone know anything about that?
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:17 pm

    HM1199 wrote:hmm i see thanks for the information guys , yes so if the radar detects the airdraft (RCS 0.1 m2) from 240 km in the decimeter band then in the xband range will be higher .
    However about the Nebo M , i hear all around that the "range is 600 km " , but against what ? and in which band ? because its multispectral so i dont know . Does someone know anything about that?

    everyone who don't know can tell it to you, and everyone who know risk prison if tell it to you : )
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:37 am

    hmm i see thanks for the information guys , yes so if the radar detects the airdraft (RCS 0.1 m2) from 240 km in the decimeter band then in the xband range will be higher .

    The range a radar detects a target is determined by several factors... the size of the antenna gives accuracy, the power of the signal allows range... the shape of the target can reduce the amount of radar signal that returns to the radar but is not a factor in longer wave radars as the shape of the aircraft is rather less important.

    A decimetre radar is less effected by target shape so can detect a shaped stealthy aircraft at longer ranges. It does not give as accurate a position of the target however as it is less precise. The breakthrough with the longer wave NEBO radars is that their modern digital design and AESA antenna arrangement improves performance to the point where they are accurate enough when used with other sensor and radars to track stealth objects.
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    Post  franco on Wed May 17, 2017 1:49 am

    Another 11 Nebo-UM radar stations ordered for delivery through the end of 2019.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12123523@egNews
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    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:20 pm

    Russia’s upgraded radar adapted for operating in Arctic

    The Russian Navy currently operates three radar stations on the coasts of the Caspian Sea, the Sea of Japan and the Sea of Okhotsk

    ST. PETERSBURG, June 30. /TASS/. The upgraded over-the-horizon coastal radar Podsolnukh (Sunflower) has been adapted for its operation in the Arctic, Chief Designer of the Research Institute of Long-Distance Radio Communication Sergei Saprykin told TASS on Friday.

    The Podsolnukh has been modernized for its operation in extreme polar conditions for its installation on the Arctic coast," he said at the International Maritime Defense Show in St. Petersburg.

    Institute CEO Alexander Miloslavsky earlier told TASS that the upgraded radar prototype would undergo factory trials before the end of this year.

    The Podsolnukh over-the-horizon surface wave coastal radar is designed for detecting sea and air targets at a distance of no less than 400 km. In its automated mode, the radar station can detect and track no less than 300 sea and 100 aerial targets.

    The Russian Navy currently operates three Podsolnukh radar stations on the coasts of the Caspian Sea, the Sea of Japan and the Sea of Okhotsk.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/954140

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