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    Russian Radar systems

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:39 pm

    The other early warning radar just shoot a strong signal but is limited due to the curviture of the earth. OTH radar uses the ionosphere to reflect the signal so that they are not so limited. But usually the resolution is lower and quality of signals are not the best, hence the other radars are meant to work in conjunction with the OTH and are better for accurate tracking. I dunno if it runs off of UHF or VHF though. One my father help build in dew lines was VHF.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Viktor on Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:02 pm

    No details of the radar. 




    This thing is mobile also Very Happy (its build like LEGO and may need several days and more many trucks but still) 
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:03 pm

    Meh, ELF all the way. I'm the only one of you fkers to have seen it Smile 

    calripson

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    Radar Coverage Zone

    Post  calripson on Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:20 am

    It is interesting that in ham radio ionospheric skip usually produces a signal about 2700-3000 miles away. I assume the process here is similiar. I wonder how wide an area the radar sees and if they can vary the covergae zone. For example, the radar in Mordovia is seeing Denmark. Would they have to built a radar to farther to the east to see Polish airspace ? Farther to the west to see Great Britain ? Why not put a radar of this type in Kalingrad to see the British Isles ?

    Also, I would think this type of radar would be easy to spoof/jam.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Viktor on Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:30 am

    calripson wrote:It is interesting that in ham radio ionospheric skip usually produces a signal about 2700-3000 miles away. I assume the process here is similiar. I wonder how wide an area the radar sees and if they can vary the covergae zone. For example, the radar in Mordovia is seeing Denmark. Would they have to built a radar to farther to the east to see Polish airspace ? Farther to the west to see Great Britain ? Why not put a radar of this type in Kalingrad to see the British Isles ?

    Also, I would think this type of radar would be easy to spoof/jam.
    Russians will produce at least several of those radar with many more prepaired positions so they can be moved around as the need arises.. I bet they will optimize the radar field so they can see Britain too Very Happy but anyway Russia already has 6000km range radar system covering Britain and the whole Europe too.

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:09 am

    sepheronx wrote:The other early warning radar just shoot a strong signal but is limited due to the curviture of the earth. OTH radar uses the ionosphere to reflect the signal so that they are not so limited. But usually the resolution is lower and quality of signals are not the best, hence the other radars are meant to work in conjunction with the OTH and are better for accurate tracking. I dunno if it runs off of UHF or VHF though. One my father help build in dew lines was VHF.
    Could be L band or UHF
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:07 am

    Keep in mind that from the ground you can bounce a signal almost vertically above to just on the horizon and everywhere in between so you can get coverage of pretty much all the airspace from very close to the radar antenna to very very far away... also remember that the atmosphere is curved so it is not like a big flat mirror... it is a curved mirror very high up which extends viewing much further.


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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:36 am

    flamming_python wrote:Meh, ELF all the way. I'm the only one of you fkers to have seen it Smile 
    The NSA prolly knows all about Zues now, so you might as well tell all of us. >:[
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:31 am

    TR1 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Meh, ELF all the way. I'm the only one of you fkers to have seen it Smile 
    The NSA prolly knows all about Zues now, so you might as well tell all of us. >:[

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Austin on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:38 am

    Container OTH is a decameter radar , means radio waves can be between 10-100 m long
    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44535/

    Duga 29B6 "Container" working on short radio waves (decameter, from 3 to 30 MHz). They are reflected from the ionosphere with small losses. For these wavelengths there is no so-called "stealth technology" (passive technology reduce radiozametnosti). Any "low observable" aircraft, ship or cruise missile will provide an excellent return signal to the same amplified secondary radiation (re-reflections inside the structure).
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:46 am

    And from the same link Austin provided:

    Duga is mobile as suspected ! Very Happy Very Happy  

    They consist of tens of antenna-feeder masts with a height of 30 meters. In Kovylkino line of masts stretched nearly a mile. Despite this, Duga quite mobile. Antenna mast systems can quickly enough to meet equipped sites. And all the equipment, including a powerful computing complex, located in transportable containers. Because Duga "Container" does not require special construction of capital facilities, commissioning of new plants can occur quite quickly.
    Austin: here is a radar Duga that article mentiones that had 10 000km range and was constructed because of the need to monitor US ballistic missile research. 



    LINK

    It is said that radar could detect Tomahawk lounch from the middle of Atlantic ocean. 

    Funny part:

    In addition, "Doug" violated the radio, because it works on frequencies which are actively used throughout the world. U.S., UK and Canada have expressed even protest the Soviet Union, but without any result. In this assignment so strange radio long remained a mystery. Naturally, the headlines in the Western press quickly filled assumptions that "Russian want to influence the minds of people all over the world." And the news that the signal sent by the ionosphere, quickly led to speculation about the impact of "treacherous Russian" on the Earth's climate. Echoes of these fables and excite the minds of today, including ours.
    Interesting part - Russian Navy is using it too !!!!

    Second-horizon system is much more sophisticated, the station became "Wave". Their appearance would have been impossible without the participation of the prominent Soviet statesman - Navy Commander Sergei Gorshkov IG. Difficulty with the first Duga led to a skeptical attitude toward him in the Soviet leadership. Sergei G. whereas this was a devotee of military technology breakthrough. His efforts in the Navy were tested first combat laser systems and systems using electromagnetic pulses as damaging factors. Although really effective samples of such weapons only appear today to merit the Soviet Navy Commander should include the fact that he was not afraid to take responsibility, giving the course developments that then seemed fantastic
    In 1986, the station "Wave" started working in a test mode in the Far East (near Nakhodka). She was constantly improved, modernized its software and algorithmic complex, increased energy potential. By 1990, the station steadily detect and track aircraft carrying U.S. groups in the Pacific Ocean at distances much higher than 3000 kilometers, and individual air targets - at distances up to 2800 km
    Another but different OTH radar systems used by Russian Navy


    In 1999, on the Kamchatka Peninsula, in the interest of the fleet, was built new Duga "Taurus". It uses less power and signal used to detect ships and air targets at ranges up to 250 km. Development of the "Taurus" were coastal Duga "Sunflower", which is now being built in different parts of our country and even offered for export. Their range of action is about 450 km.
    More than 10 planned. 

    It was launched in pilot mode in 2002. Since that time have accumulated vast experience horizon radar, and technical facilities of the station repeatedly modernized. Currently, all major modes using it worked, and the Far East started the preparations for the construction of the station has burst "Container". There will be built more than ten such stations, which will in the short term to cover a continuous radar field, throughout the country and extensive adjacent air space.
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44535/

    And interesting picture about the size of 29B6 damn thing (click on it)



    LINK

    calripson

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    Nothing New

    Post  calripson on Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:07 am

    OTH radar is nothing new - it was used by the US since the 1960s and USSR from 1970s. The US disabled most OTH radar in the 1990s. The problem with it are two fold: one resolution is very bad. At ranges of 3,000 miles with even very long radar you can only locate target within kilometers of airspace. Two, it is readily spoofed so in real war I would be highly suspect that the US/NATO would not have the technology to make Russian OTH radar less than reliable.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:29 am

    calripson wrote:OTH radar is nothing new - it was used by the US since the 1960s and USSR from 1970s. The US disabled most OTH radar in the 1990s. The problem with it are two fold: one resolution is very bad. At ranges of 3,000 miles with even very long radar you can only locate target within kilometers of airspace. Two, it is readily spoofed so in real war I would be highly suspect that the US/NATO would not have the technology to make Russian OTH radar less than reliable.
    With what might US disable OTH radars 3000km away?

    Its not necessary for OTH radars to have ultimate precision (although 29B6 entered production because of considerably increased accuracy). It servers as an EW.

    His informations will alert more precision radar systems that cruise missiles or fighters or something else is flying their way and Russian PVO will raise fighters and interceptors and alert SAM 

    stations. Thats his main purpose to give as much time as it can to Russian PVO to prepare for incoming attack or monitor situation that everything is fine and there is nothing to worry 

    about. On the other hand Russian Navy might use it in more deadly way.

    calripson

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    Removed Radar

    Post  calripson on Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:40 pm

    When I say disabled, I mean the US removed its own radar in the 1990s because it was felt the military value was not worth the operational cost.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:52 pm

    calripson wrote:When I say disabled, I mean the US removed its own radar in the 1990s because it was felt the military value was not worth the operational cost.
    Good for US but that relates with Russia in what way? Or do you want to say that if USA does not have them than its not worth having them at all because its military value is null Very Happy Very Happy 

    because I could think of many systems Russia has and US does not. Anyway Russia withdrew its own ineffective OTH radar systems but this new breed is showing excellent results which 

    is why 10+ are ordered with probably few more iterations in the pipes.
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    zg18

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  zg18 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:59 pm

    Viktor wrote:because I could think of many systems Russia has and US does not. Anyway Russia withdrew its own ineffective OTH radar systems but this new breed is showing excellent results which is why 10+ are ordered with probably few more iterations in the pipes.
    Not only OTH radars but also new Voronezh radars, cheap & quick to build and consumes only a fraction of power Soviet ballistic radars of that type consumed. R&D seems to be paying off for the Russians in that field.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  etaepsilonk on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:06 pm

    Good day, everyone  Smile 
    Could you, if possible, provide me some links or information, regarding Russian "passive radars"? I'm particularly interested in Vera, and kolchuga (also, is the latter actually related to the Ukrainian version, or is it a different design?). Thank you  Smile 
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    SOC

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  SOC on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:08 pm

    Viktor wrote:

    Where'd that come from? I'd be interested to see what the numbers are referring to in the key. That radar shown there should also be the trial system at Gorodets, it's not the same configuration deployed at Kovylkino.

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Austin on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:10 pm

    Can some one tell me the decameter band radar Container operate in fixed wave length say 10 or 20 or 100 m or they operate in multiple wave length between 10 to 100 m ?

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  etaepsilonk on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:16 pm

    Austin wrote:Can some one tell me the decameter band radar Container operate in fixed wave length say 10 or 20 or 100 m or they operate in multiple wave length between 10 to 100 m ?

    Well, fixed wave radars are susceptible to ECM, aren't they?
    So, multiple length, probably?
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Viktor on Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:09 pm

    SOC wrote:Where'd that come from?  I'd be interested to see what the numbers are referring to in the key.  That radar shown there should also be the trial system at Gorodets, it's not the same configuration deployed at Kovylkino.


    From here:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44535/

    http://s002.radikal.ru/i199/1312/84/31acc72fd455.jpg


    etaepsilonk wrote:Good day, everyone  Smile 
    Could you, if possible, provide me some links or information, regarding Russian "passive radars"? I'm particularly interested in Vera, and kolchuga (also, is the latter actually related to the Ukrainian version, or is it a different design?). Thank you  Smile 


    Russians have wide array of passive radar systems some of which are: 

    - Vega
    - Tamara and Tamara-M
    - Ramona and Ramona-M
    - Ramet
    - Valeria
    - Orion
    - SDR-2MA/P
    - Post-3M
    - Kolchuga (Ukranian and Russian version in Russia)
    - 1L222 Autobaza
    - some new ones we have not even heard of (like Moscow-1 complex) and some others

    Here you can find some good info

    Warsaw Pact / Russian / PLA Emitter Locating Systems / ELINT Systems

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:35 pm

    Excellent, thanks  Very Happy 

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:14 pm

    Russia bolsters western air defence capabilities



    Russia has significantly bolstered its western air defence capability with the standing up of a new long-range radar system and the deployment of fighter aircraft to Belarus, state media disclosed on 9 December.

    A new over-the-horizon radar system is officially being trialled near the town of Kovylkino in the Russian republic of Mordovia, but is believed to be already monitoring air traffic over much of Europe and the Middle East, while a Russian Air Force (VVS) squadron of Sukhoi Su-27 'Flanker' fighters recently arrived at the Baranovichi Air Base in Belarus, Russian state news agency RIA Novosti reported.

    The western-facing radar at Kovylkino, known as the 29B6 Container, is a static system comprising a number of separate antenna masts that are 30 m in height and stretch for more than a kilometre. According to Russian media reports, the radar has a 3,000 km range that, when coupled with its 180° field of regard, takes in most of Europe and a large swathe of the Middle East. The same reports credit the system with being able to track airborne targets (including cruise missiles) from sea level up to 100 km (near space).

    Whereas most long-range radar systems are typically restricted in their coverage by the curvature of the earth, the Container is said to avoid this problem by reflecting its short-wave radio signals (3 to 30 MHz) off the ionosphere. These signals are then bounced back from the ground, and the process repeats itself until the signal loses its energy.

    According to RIA Novosti, the Container is part of the 590th separate radio-technical unit, which includes a command post, a transmission and reception antenna, and a communications and data management unit.

    With the radar activated on 2 December, it is expected to be declared fully operational by the end of 2015. A second system, covering Russia's eastern air defence region, is expected to be built before the end of the decade.

    On the same day that the turning on of the Container radar was disclosed, Russia announced it had deployed a squadron of Su-27s to Belarus for the first time, as part of a bilateral defence agreement between the two countries. Four fighters will be on permanent stand-by at the Baranovichi Air Base near Belarus' borders with Lithuania and Poland.

    These fighters will be joined by 2015 by further aircraft, to be stationed at a new Russian air base in Belarus. The facility in northwest Belarus will be the first Russian base in the country since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

    Of all the former Soviet republics, Belarus has kept the closest political and military ties with Moscow. Through the Union State agreement of 1999, Belarus and Russia have furthered their political, economic, and social integration. A consequence of this agreement is that the former Soviet republic has almost become the de facto first line of defence in the west for its much larger neighbour. To this end, Russia has already provided Belarus with new state-of-the-art, ground-based air defence units, such as the S-400 Triumf (SA-21 'Growler') surface-to-air missile (SAM) system and agreed to provide it with Yakovlev Yak-130 'Mitten' advanced jet trainer/light attack aircraft (to be delivered in 2015).

    This build-up of Russia's air defences (in the west, particularly) ties in with increasingly bellicose statements regarding the global military balance of power and the proposed European missile defence shield that have been emanating out of Moscow in recent months and weeks. Russia does not regard the European missile defence shield as being a purely defensive system, and RIA Novosti quoted President Vladimir Putin as warning at the annual State of the Nation address on 12 December that foreign attempts to secure a military advantage over Russia "would be futile".

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:17 pm

    3 to 30 Mhz , 10-100m wavelength that would even make a B-2 standout .......I doubt any Stealth Target big or small in size can evade radar operating in these wave length.

    All they need is good signal processing capability and algorithm and good receivers to grab as much as bounced frequency to separate the chaff from wheat.

    Arrow

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    Re: Russian Radar systems

    Post  Arrow on Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:37 pm

    The question is how accurate is this radar? Do you think that can detect cruise missiles flight low to the ground?

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