UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

nomadski wrote:
I have said before , that I personally  have no problems in accepting the possibility of alien life on other planets........  Given the large number  of reliable cases involving police or military witnesses . Together with radar evidence .

And landing traces etc.

From many countries . I think that the possibility  that some of these UFO's are of extraterrestial origin exists

The ETH is by far the best view.

I have no problem thinking about alien abductions being true . Since our alien visitors seem to be ethical in conduct . Returning people unharmed .

Not in all cases.....

( 1 )  Blaming fails in radar and aircraft and even nuclear silo on alien intervention . Rather than malfunctions and human error . The story sometimes involved gremlins . In the machine . But aliens are more believable..

No, I don't think so...not to most people.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
Distances between even closest stars are so astronomically huge that they are almost inaccessible with our laws of physics.

Our understanding of the laws and probably gravity specifically.

A civilization that is advanced enough to travel efficiently at faster than light speed is probably so advanced that it could simply create matter out of nothing - if it can't then for every planet with inteligent life there are 1,000s possibly 10,000s of planets without it - I do not even count moons, comets, asteroids etc.

True, interstellar travel means access to almost unlimited material resources. A naturally habitable world, however, is so rare it might be worth fighting over.

GarryB wrote:
The main problem is that the universe is huge and most of it is expanding away from us at an enormous rate...

Well, our galaxy is "staying put" from our perspective and is probably large enough, with more than enough possible habitable planets, for ETs to appear.

....most of the stories I read about encounters with aliens I think are probably drug or alcohol related....

Not according to investigators. Most witnesses are ordinary but credible people with no issues like that nor much (if any) prior knowledge of the phenomenon. Witnesses include professors, pilots, businessmen etc.

why is it always some yokel in the middle of nowhere with grease smeared on his camera lens so he can never take a decent photo...

There have been a number of clear photographs. As for sightings in less populated areas, that may be due to ET trying to minimize the risk of detection, or detection by many.

I think statistically there has to be alien life throughout the universe,

Right and the bulk of intelligent ET life is almost certainly much older, inasmuch as civilization here is a mere few thousand years old.
Btw for a remarkably insightful look at this whole subject--one that really cuts through the bs we've been told for so long--see this. It's just a POD book, because no standard trade publisher would dare touch something this controversial:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1949483185/ref=tmm_pap_new_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=new8qid=&sr=

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeta_Reticuli


I watched TV programmes  about UFO abduction case of Betty and Barney Hill . I believe they reported being abducted in 1961 . They also reported that the  "aliens " had told them where they had come from . By drawing a star map . This star map recently validated to be zeta reticuli . A binary star system some 39 light years from earth . I hypothesised  that these aliens had recieved first Earth radio transmissions in 1922 . At that rate  of 1961 - 1922 = 39 years !  But this implies they travel at faster speeds of light . Probably through worm holes .  Now to test my hypothesis , try to see if correlations exist between reported alien visitations . And source star system . Reported as Orion or other system . To get idea of speed ! Coincidence ?


https://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/hill-abduction.htm

https://www.bbc.com/timelines/zxqc4wx

Ok , I am layman . In plain English , from theoretical perspective , do wormholes  exist now ?   Also from our human history , technical advances  in society are NOT compatible with social advances . So the " aliens " could be savages ! But if not , then their apparent aim of hybridisation , reflects natural processes of hybridisation  on Earth . A natural law process .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)

Also if their star map genuine . Then when was modern star map discovered ? Was much known about this star system by astronomers in 1961 ? Was information published . If not , then the map could be analysed from statistical point . And accepted as non - accidental and causal or accidental .

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/09/14/betty-barney-hill-alien-abduction-ufo_n_962485.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9jb25zZW50LnlhaG9vLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGSAki8bQ0VxN7z8HwzQKq3AaJqkoUTxZEL9Cj96LetBrIW6osvCv1u5iZwfSOtTfTKAtblZVLUPH4gi9kr41VmzZrkOUQkMrnTQyNFzki57_5Nyah84NL2Og-H1z0_To27TcWohMGMjPaY66e1m_UAInHZDkEX4kvmTKP1QHb85

Not to forget that location of first radio transmission in USA , was Detriot in 1920 . The city that Betty and Barney lived was Portsmouth near Canada border . They were in white mountains in Canada , when incident happened . How close were they to Detroit ? Portsmouth and Detroit are close , by galactic standards .

nomadski wrote:I watched TV programmes  about UFO abduction case of Betty and Barney Hill . I believe they reported being abducted in 1961

Yes on September 19 of that year. It's long been a classic case.

They also reported that the  "aliens " had told them where they had come from . By drawing a star map . This star map recently validated to be zeta reticuli .

The aliens showed Betty Hill a star map, which she later drew from memory (subconscious). Some time later Marjorie Fish interpreted the stars in the lower right as Zeta 1 and 2 Reticuli.

nomadski wrote:Ok , I am layman . In plain English , from theoretical perspective , do wormholes  exist now ?

Maybe not but there may be alternatives like gravitational field propulsion, advocated by Morrison.
I doubt aliens really need our genes or have a hydridization program. As The Alien Plan for Earth shows, the phenomenon while real is very deceptive.

@ starman

I am one of those people, with no psychological bias to either accept or reject the idea of visitations by possible intelligent alien life. I do not fear them or love them. I do not make them into devil's  or gods. I agree that this phenomenon is real. But do not know if it is true. But think that it may be true. Earth scientists recently discussed using genetic engineering , as a means of modifying earth organisms, in populating Mars. So why should an alien race, not be interested in creating hybrids for purpose of populating other worlds?

@ kvs

Thanks for reply. The way I understood you, it is possible in theory to have particles that travel faster than light. The way I think about it, is that God, did not create the universe to be a prison for his creatures. So communication and travel is possible. Faster than light. Serious study by astronomers and SETI as well as ufologists should all combine to find our nearest intelligent neighbours. All should be subject to scientific study without bias. I think intelligent life is not far from us. Since local conditions, in star and planet formation, would most likely be similar, giving rise to similar evolutionary conditions. During similar time frames. Making contact possible.

It seems that intelligent life, conforms to a blueprint. On earth, many intelligent humanoid species evolved. And interbred. Giving rise to us modern humans. It seems evolution of bipedal intelligent apes, was an evolutionary necessity. It had to happen this way. No intelligent blobs or rocks therefore. And since we have found so many Earthlike planets. With similar or even identical chemistry, then this evolution may exist there too!

If you are worried about god making earth a prison... there is enough matter in this galaxy to keep us sorted for likely more than the expected lifespan of our star... there is a British TV comedy called Red Dwarf where a routine flight in an enormous cargo vessel transporting ore and other material has a radiation leak and the one surviving crew member who survives because he is in time stasis as a punishment for bringing a cat on board, is released from stasis 3 million years later... his cat seems to have had kittens and over multiple generations have mutated into a humanoid cat like creature... if humans survive 3 million years what will we look like?

I mean it can certainly be assumed that some biological systems in our bodies could be replaced to improve performance... I mean eyes with super high resolution that can see beyond the visible spectrum to see in the dark with a zoom lense etc etc... even the addition of eyes in the back of your head and sides of your head so you have a 360 degree view of the world... improved lungs so you can breathe almost anywhere... including underwater... improved stomach that can process any food stuffs and extract all the right material to keep the body in good nick but reject excesses of things like sugar or fat when not needed and just flush them out of the body. Redesign the bowels and bladder to more efficiently use water in the body so you don't need to drink so much, and an alternative method of cooling the body instead of sweating that doesn't waste water... A skin upgrade that makes you less vulnerable to cuts or damage... I don't think natural evolution will get much of a chance, as artificial upgrades are likely the easiest and quickest and most reliable way of getting it done.

Hell, if they can find a way of changing the DNA so that new cells don't degrade over time so when you are 90 years old your skin is new and young and all your organs and bits and bobs are upgraded the same as they were when you were 19, so you just stayed young forever... well imagine that... the population would expand exponentially because far fewer people would be dying, so the requirement to expand the human race out into other star systems would become rather urgent.

You might even get people living permanently in space, so personal upgrades could be different... you don't need legs in space... taking them off could reduce body weight by 20-30kgs for some people, and it makes you smaller, better able to fit into smaller spaceships... perhaps replace both legs with one arm and one hand, so you could have three hands and three arms... your bottom hand could be used to hold yourself in place, while you do work with the other two hands... replacing legs with two hands would be tricky because two hands instead of feet would need an extra brain and set of eyes to be used to the full, but using the brain power you use to control both legs... balance, walking and running etc etc, it should be able to manage controlling one hand by feel instead of needing eyes and serious concentration like your hands require most of the time.

Perhaps having one leg with a hand instead of a foot might be the optimum solution... the hand can grab, but the leg is much more powerful than an arm so pushing off with a single leg would propel you around a relatively large space station quite efficiently... you could flip over in flight and stop yourself with the hand grabbing any rails and the leg slowing you down more efficiently than an arm and you have both arms free to hold things or whatever...

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2019/08/01/2066968/nearby-planet-could-harbor-life


Funny you mention Red Dwarf. I knew a person who went to same college as one of the actors in Liverpool. As I mentioned, I think that this phenomenon of alien visitations may be true. As many reliable witnesses have come forward. Like pilots or police. People with nothing to gain by fabricating a story. And everything to loose like their credibility and career. I am aware that this phenomenon has also been used by CIA , to cover problems with military or missile or space programme. For this reason alone, I think ufology, should be looked at seriously with scientific input.

But I think governments are hiding the truth. About possible visitations. Take for example the British incident at Rendlesham forest. Margaret Thatcher, when interviewed about it, said that  " you can not tell the people!". And I don't think she was talking about a mishap with yank nukes at the base. Because there has been mishaps with nukes before, and the broken arrow story is not secret. It is in public domain. So she was not talking about any nuke fail. Since no information has been released about a nuke mishap, like other cases. So this incident could be about an actual visitation.

Plus non of US personnel, made money out of story. Kept quiet for decades. I think government in UK. and. US  must tell the people. They can tell the people.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/drdavidclarke.co.uk/2013/04/15/you-cant-tell-the-people-margaret-thatcher-and-ufo-secrets/amp/

nomadski wrote:
Earth scientists recently discussed using genetic engineering , as a means of modifying earth organisms, in populating Mars. So why should an alien race, not be interested in creating hybrids for purpose of populating other worlds?

Claims of "hydridization" probably reflect ET deception because there's no evidence, to my knowledge, that this is happening. Have you seen any half human, half grey ETs lately?

@ kvs And since we have found so many Earthlike planets. With similar or even identical chemistry, then this evolution may exist there too!

Known exoplanets are only "earthlike" in a broad sense. Spectroscopic studies may soon reveal the atmospheric composition of Trappist and other worlds, but the chemical makeup of exoplanets is not currently known.

nomadski wrote:
But I think governments are hiding the truth. About possible visitations. Take for example the British incident at Rendlesham forest. Margaret Thatcher, when interviewed about it, said that  " you can not tell the people!".....

IMO Roswell remains the best example of this. In his latest book on the subject KDR seems almost skeptical, not because there's a better explanation (or any at all) but because of the lack of real physical evidence or documentation. But that can be explained by the ongoing coverup.

I used to scoff at Star Trek and its M-class planets as if they are ubiquitous.
But the astronomy of the last 30 years has established that they are ubiquitous. The only difference from Star Trek is that not all of them will have
advanced humanoid civilizations.

You can still scoff at the original Star Trek regarding the number of hot women aliens that can't resist Kirk... and the fact that the Universe seems to uniformly speak 20th century english as standard... a common theme of US movies... foreigners all know English... if you shout it at them loud enough they understand... in fact in private they speak english but in strong foreign accents when they are on their own...

@ starman

About this lack of evidence. First we assume that lack of tangible evidence is accidental. This assumption is not warranted. Since the visitors may want to keep their presence a secret . A lot of the abductees only recall their experiences under hypnosis. Looks like they were sedated or imobalised at that time. It seems good policy to keep hidden, from a violent and vicious species like man. Also we assume that we can detect their technology. They may be sufficiently more advanced than humans, for their technology to appear to us as natural phenomenon. For example a lion or zeebra that was chased by Helicopter, and tranqualised and had a radio transmitter collar installed, will be hardly in a position to find evidence of such visitation, and explain to other Zeebra about their experience, or to know why their neck feels heavy! We may be facing similar situation. Also for example, our search by SETI, using radio telescopes, does not take into account that a radio wave, if sent from millions of light years away, will in fact change it's wavelength and become undechiperable! Even if it once carried information. Regards chemical compositions, you may be right. I was extrapolating by looking at known compositions of our own solar system. But I think recently, scientists, observed something about this?

nomadski wrote:First we assume that lack of tangible evidence is accidental.

I certainly don't assume that.

This assumption is not warranted. Since the visitors may want to keep their presence a secret .

That's most likely. It's hard to interact with us and our world to the extent they do without leaving some evidence, but it's never sufficient to conclusively prove their presence.

A lot of the abductees only recall their experiences under hypnosis. Looks like they were sedated or imobalised at that time. It seems good policy to keep hidden, from a violent and vicious species like man.

I don't think ETs were any better when at a comparable phase of development. Judging by mutilation cases and those in which abductees were traumatized, they're often not benign.

Also we assume that we can detect their technology. They may be sufficiently more advanced than humans, for their technology to appear to us as natural phenomenon.

In theory yes but there have been many, many sightings of unusual flying craft, and occupants. Many witnesses report familiar technology. Considering that the phenomenon is generally marginalized despite all that--due to lack of conclusive proof in the public domain--it doesn't appear necessary to be fully hidden to avoid much attention.

kvs wrote:
Actually there are many Earth-like planets.  Their main variation is their size.

They're "earthlike" in the sense of being within an order of magnitude or so of Earth's mass. 

Their surface chemical composition is determined by spectroscopy.

Spectroscopy is a good way to determine atmospheric composition--the fastest way to see if a planet is inhabited.

Their composition is determined by physics.  These planets have similar orbits around similar yellow stars with basically the same chemical composition
reflecting the number of star formation cycles after the Big Bang that they formed.   So it is 100% certain that these planets have water and
carbon.   They are nothing like Titan (a hydrocarbon moon formed around a gas giant, which reflect the composition of the gas giant) or some
other planet with substantially different chemical composition.

It's my understanding that generally, the more recently formed a star/planetary system is, the more likely it is to have high metallicity. I wonder though, if some Population II systems could've "lucked out" and become habitable a billion or more years before life appeared here. Maybe it was possible close to the centers of globular clusters or the galactic center where heavier elements probably tended to migrate.

The number of "Earths" (not even Earth-like) planets out there is vast..... 

Dunno if we can say "vast" but it's statistically highly likely they exist, even if none have been actually verified. But for those who take UFOlogy seriously, that may not be necessary.

But the probability of several planets with intelligent and even technological life in our
own galaxy is is very high.    Not near zero as based on the ignorant estimates from 40+ years ago.

Yes that seems virtually certain or there wouldn't be a UFO phenomenon.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/accelerating-exoplanet-discovery-using-chemical-signatures-of-stars-118818

You are right about..... " .. They don't seem completely benign...". And that... "... Some technology seems familiar..". The first point is easier to explain, in terms of technological advancement not being necessarily accompanied by moral advancement. We see this from our own history. But for the majority of cases, these events seem benign. I think the mutilation cases you refer to, are most likely caused by US government, obtaining samples from domestic animals, to check for radiation fallout after atmospheric nuke tests. And results on human food chain. Samples are taken from organs, at constant exposure to soil or grass. I think this got mixed up with UFO phenomenon.

As regards familiar technology. This is not the case. Indications are, that humans are subject to a form of mind control. They are given images that already exists in their mind. But some senses are more difficult to control. Such as sound or the sense of touch. Think of it like, when a veterinarian, puts blindfold on a sedated animal, to calm it down. But the animal can still feel or hear. I think the standard images of the public for the aliens, is false. I don't think we know, what they look like! The idea of recording brain function, remotely, has been done recently. By a device similar to a CT scan. So technically it is possible to remotely record or transmit to a brain.


https://blog.frontiersin.org/2016/10/26/can-a-brain-computer-interface-convert-your-thoughts-to-text/


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/brain-to-brain-interfaces-the-science-of-telepathy-37926

nomadski wrote:
I think the mutilation cases you refer to, are most likely caused by US government, obtaining samples from domestic animals, to check for radiation fallout after atmospheric nuke tests. And results on human food chain. Samples are taken from organs, at constant exposure to soil or grass. I think this got mixed up with UFO phenomenon.

No I don't think so. There are cases in which witnesses saw UFOs or ETs in the act of taking or dismembering animals. There's no need for the government to secretly mutilate animals to check for radiation fallout (which incidentally hasn't been a problem for many years) or other environmental poisoning. They could get all the samples they need from a slaughterhouse.

As regards familiar technology. This is not the case. Indications are, that humans are subject to a form of mind control. They are given images that already exists in their mind. But some senses are more difficult to control. Such as sound or the sense of touch. Think of it like, when a veterinarian, puts blindfold on a sedated animal, to calm it down. But the animal can still feel or hear. I think the standard images of the public for the aliens, is false. I don't think we know, what they look like! The idea of recording brain function, remotely, has been done recently. By a device similar to a CT scan. So technically it is possible to remotely record or transmit to a brain.

True, ETs themselves might not really use familiar technology. But judging by the number of sightings of such gear, they certainly want us to think they do. The Alien Plan for Earth has an explanation for that. I doubt many reported aliens are genuine in the sense of being naturally evolved or representative of a real ET group. In 1973 there was a report of a fishlike alien, and other bizarre forms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission_product


Health concerns
Edit
For introduction of radionuclides into organism, ingestion is the most important route. Insoluble compounds are not absorbed from the gut and cause only local irradiation before they are excreted. Soluble forms however show wide range of absorption percentages.[30]

Isotope Radiation Half-life GI absorption Notes
Strontium-90/yttrium-90 β 28 years 30%
Caesium-137 β,γ 30 years 100%
Promethium-147 β 2.6 years 0.01%
Cerium-144 β,γ 285 days 0.01%
Ruthenium-106/rhodium-106 β,γ 1.0 years 0.03%
Zirconium-95 β,γ 65 days 0.01%
Strontium-89 β 51 days 30%
Ruthenium-103 β,γ 39.7 days 0.03%
Niobium-95 β,γ 35 days 0.01%
Cerium-141 β,γ 33 days 0.01%
Barium-140/lanthanum-140 β,γ 12.8 days 5%
Iodine-131 β,γ 8.05 days 100%


As you can see, some fission byproducts have long half life. And in this phenomenon, we must apply logic. How many witnesses report aliens dismembering? Not that we can rule it out. But a lot of reports are of black silent helicopters, associated with this incidents. And what do they tell people? Oh, sorry, but your steak dinner, contains some strontium? You are getting cancer! So a secret programme is needed. One that allows collection on site. To identify contaminated areas accurately.

Regards, fish like aliens. Again number of reported cases of greys, is far greater. This can not be product of hallucinations or hypnogogic dreams. As there would be wide variation. But this standard view is either true or false. Either victims remember correctly. Or it is a deceptive memory implanted. I have a logical problem with fish. A fish can never solve a rubic cube problem. I think any self respecting alien, should be able to play chess!

I have a logical problem with fish. A fish can never solve a rubic cube problem. I think any self respecting alien, should be able to play chess!

Octopus are some of the smartest known animals are are able to problem solve to get food. They had experiments where they put food into jars with clear lids... the octopus very quickly grabbed the jar and picked it up and applied force in different directions to get inside the jar and managed to rapidly open the lid and get the food inside. If you designed a cube and took the time to train them I am sure they could manage a simple cube fairly quickly...

And really if you think about it the only difference between water and air is density, so a planet with a super thick gas atmosphere could have marine like animals that can fly around like they are swimming in the lower atmosphere... other planets don't need to be exactly like earth for life to start... on Earth itself there have been about 6 reboots where 90+ percent of all life died out and was replaced by an enormous range of new life and new species on land and at sea.... the first extinction was critical because the first extinction was created by photosynthesis which added a massive amount of free oxygen into the atmosphere that killed off most of the existing life forms of the time, but it introduced a chemical element that was massively reactive and energy rich... equally it was dangerous and toxic for most existing life of the time... without that extinction we would not exist... and there were 4 more after that... right now a lot of species are being wiped out but that is perfectly normal... it does not matter what we do extinction will occur because it is a natural process... just like humans being born, getting old, and dying... though we are fighting that too.

GarryB wrote:
Octopus are some of the smartest known animals are are able to problem solve to get food. They had experiments where they put food into jars with clear lids... the octopus very quickly grabbed the jar and picked it up and applied force in different directions to get inside the jar and managed to rapidly open the lid and get the food inside.  If you designed a cube and took the time to train them I am sure they could manage a simple cube fairly quickly...

I recall at least one sci fi series, The Tripods Trilogy, in which the invaders of Earth were highly evolved octopoids. They came from a world with higher gravity hence more volatiles like water, which meant terrestrial evolution didn't have much scope and octopoids filled the advanced niches.
Btw there was an old UFO report about a man attacked by a large octopus-like creature but that sort of thing is very much the exception.

..... so a planet with a super thick gas atmosphere could have marine like animals that can fly around like they are swimming in the lower atmosphere...

The catch is, to have a very thick atmosphere a planet would need high gravity--not conducive to the evolution of flight.

nomadski wrote:
How many witnesses report aliens dismembering?

At least three I recall off the top of my head.

But a lot of reports are of black silent helicopters, associated with this incidents. And what do they tell people? Oh, sorry, but your steak dinner, contains some strontium? You are getting cancer! So a secret programme is needed. One that allows collection on site. To identify contaminated areas accurately.

Animal mutilations often involve just draining of blood or removal of eyes, lips, etc not eaten by humans anyway. Poisoning of food is a issue for the Food and Drug administration not the dept of defense. On a number of occasions potentially dangerous food and drugs were banned, after testing.

Regards, fish like aliens. Again number of reported cases of greys, is far greater. This can not be product of hallucinations or hypnogogic dreams. As there would be wide variation. But this standard view is either true or false. Either victims remember correctly. Or it is a deceptive memory implanted. I have a logical problem with fish. A fish can never solve a rubic cube problem. I think any self respecting alien, should be able to play chess!

Some of the reported ET types may be genuine beings but many, like insectoids, are almost certainly phony.