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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

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    Post  starman on Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:39 pm

    nomadski wrote:I saw on TV, that pyramids in Egypt could be used for stellar communication. The lower chamber under pyramid being flooded to create pressure wave against the stones of pyramid. Creating piezoelectric effect. The upper chamber being filled with zinc solution and weak hydrochloric acid producing hydrogen gas. This then being excited by electric field to produce a MASER to send signal to star! Will this work with pyramids? They said they discovered residue of acid and zinc on walls. And lower chamber showed water erosion!


    Laughing This smacks of charlatans like von Daniken. The pyramids were the work of a basically primitive culture and ultimately stemmed from fear of death i.e. by emtombing a pharoah's possessions with him, they supposedly enabled him to enjoy the afterlife.
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    Post  starman on Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Their might be silicon based life forms we wouldn't recognise as being alive...

    Possible but doubtful. There's no shortage of silicon here but no evidence of silicon based life. (Geologists who scrutinize rocks would probably have long noted any unusual growth pattern or movement.) Even it silicon life were possible, I understand there are disadvantages compared with carbon based life.

    The fact that there was microbial life on a rock that was on the surface of mars but was blasted by an impact off the surface to spend who knows how long in space and land in antarctica

    I don't think the "microbial life" in that rock stood up to scrutiny. There's still no (publicly known) proof of ET life.

    .... in a much denser atmosphere imagine a box jellyfish with hydrogen in its bag with tentacles hanging down thousands of metres catching algae growing in the weak sunlight trying to photosynthesise food in the upper atmosphere of Jupiter.

    Laughing At Jupiter's distance from the sun, sunlight is so weak I very much doubt it's a useful energy source. Of course Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are even worse. Any Jovian life would almost certainly derive its energy from internal planetary heat but to access it, life would have to endure tremendous pressure.


    They don't need to write books or have music or build space stations to be interesting...

    Of course. Nobody expected Viking 1 or 2 to encounter intelligent life. It would've been thrilling if they had just detected microorganisms. There was considerable excitement when certain results seemed to indicate such life.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:52 am

    What is known about the crashed UFO in the Tien Shan mountains?

    Navy Confirms: Those UFO Videos Are Real And Never Should’ve Been Released
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:18 am

    At Jupiter's distance from the sun, sunlight is so weak I very much doubt it's a useful energy source. Of course Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are even worse. Any Jovian life would almost certainly derive its energy from internal planetary heat but to access it, life would have to endure tremendous pressure.

    There are bacteria growing on small volcanic vents on the bottom of the ocean on earth that have never even seen sunlight... and there are larger creatures including crabs that eat that bacteria down there too.

    They used to think water and sunlight were critical for life but there is enough evidence to show neither is actually critical.

    On different planets with totally different chemical makeups and temperatures different combinations make more sense for life.

    And with AI developing on earth a different sort of silicon lifeforms might take control here on earth too.

    Remember if that asteroid that wiped out most of the big dinosaurs had not hit it is likely we would still be furry small animals in trees running away from giant lizards that ruled the earth for another 70 million years...
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    Post  starman on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    There are bacteria growing on small volcanic vents on the bottom of the ocean on earth that have never even seen sunlight... and there are larger creatures including crabs that eat that bacteria down there too.

    Sure but volcanic vents are a much better energy source than anything high in the Jovian atmosphere.


    On different planets with totally different chemical makeups and temperatures different combinations make more sense for life.

    Assuming noncarbon based life is possible, such as silicon life. but I think that's dubious.

    And with AI developing on earth a different sort of silicon lifeforms might take control here on earth too.

    But that's designed by life; it couldn't have appeared naturally.

    Remember if that asteroid that wiped out most of the big dinosaurs had not hit it is likely we would still be furry small animals in trees running away from giant lizards that ruled the earth for another 70 million years...

    Russell suggested that had nonavian dinosaurs survived, eventually a dinosaur such as T. formosus might've radiated into the niche currently held by man. And I'm not sure that mammals would've remained small and unimportant had nonavian dinos persisted. Some of the lineages that led to modern mammals already existed prior to the K-Pg. IF Purgatorius (like Protungulatum)was already present in latest Maastrichtian time, so that dino dominance didn't prevent initial primate radiations, maybe later ones would've gone the same way even had dinos, not big mammals, been the main challenge. Just as some primates eventually became terrestrial and overcame the dominant terrestrial megafauna (mammalian) the same might've happened had big dinosaurs lasted.
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    Post  starman on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:17 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:What is known about the crashed UFO in the Tien Shan mountains?

    Generally I'm no skeptic but I take almost all crash reports with a grain of salt. Not many have more than one named witness, if any, and it's fishy that we often hear nothing about some accounts until decades after they allegedly happened.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:06 am

    The atmosphere of Jupiter is extremely complex and not at all logical...

    Within the regions of gas, the temperature varies in the layers of Jupiter's atmosphere. From the surface to about 30 miles (50 kilometers) up, the temperature decreases as you ascend, ranging from minus 100 C (minus 150 F) to minus 160 C (minus 260 F). In the next layer, the temperature increases with altitude, returning to up to minus 150 F again. At the top of the atmosphere, temperatures can reach as high as 1,340 F (725 C), over 600 miles (1,000 kilometers) above the planet's surface.

    Note the surface is defined as being the altitude at which the air pressure is equal to the surface of earth... there is no solid structure there to stand on, so 1,000km above that the temperature is hotter than an oven... with layers below that ranging from seriously cold to just really really cold.

    Assuming noncarbon based life is possible, such as silicon life. but I think that's dubious.

    In a galaxy far far away a rock face and a coral reef might be having a discussion about whether carbon based life forms could develop...

    https://www.pdfdrive.com/the-limits-of-organic-life-in-planetary-systems-e185993844.html

    Open the above page and left click the bright blue download button.

    Right click the green goto pdf button and save it onto your computer and read it...

    But that's designed by life; it couldn't have appeared naturally.

    Does that matter?

    Ask a Christian and they will tell you a higher power created life on earth... what if it was an alien?

    There were a lot of very specific events that created earth and set it up the way it is to make it suitable for humans... whether it was the early impact that created the moon to stabilise our rotation and create seasons, or the 6... count them... 6 mass extinction periods needed to create the planet we live in today... did the water on this planet come by comet, or did all the solid planets have lots of water that has been blown off into space by the lack of atmosphere and the solar wind and lack of radiation belts...

    Even useful potshots of large rocks from space to get rid of the dinosaurs...

    It has been a really lucky run, but then you could argue it hasn't seemed to happen anywhere else that we can see, so it was pretty much a case of it not happening most of the time in most places... ie it wasn't a case of us being lucky, more of a case of we are here because it happened.

    Russell suggested that had nonavian dinosaurs survived, eventually a dinosaur such as T. formosus might've radiated into the niche currently held by man. And I'm not sure that mammals would've remained small and unimportant had nonavian dinos persisted. Some of the lineages that led to modern mammals already existed prior to the K-Pg. IF Purgatorius (like Protungulatum)was already present in latest Maastrichtian time, so that dino dominance didn't prevent initial primate radiations, maybe later ones would've gone the same way even had dinos, not big mammals, been the main challenge. Just as some primates eventually became terrestrial and overcame the dominant terrestrial megafauna (mammalian) the same might've happened had big dinosaurs lasted.

    Well how do they explain all the massive dinosaurs that lived in the sea disappearing too... why were they all wiped out as well?

    Perhaps the comet story is just a cover for aliens that came and wiped out all the large animals in a predator type frenzy, to leave the planet open to develop smaller but smarter animals... maybe they are due back for round two... Cool
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:12 am

    Well how do they explain all the massive dinosaurs that lived in the sea disappearing too... why were they all wiped out as well?
    Not all species of reptiles, marine & terrestrial, were wiped out. Crocodiles, alligators, lizards, snakes, turtles, & even ancient  tuatara of NZ survived, not to mention Coelacanth, sharks & birds:
    http://theconversation.com/not-a-lizard-nor-a-dinosaur-tuatara-is-the-sole-survivor-of-a-once-widespread-reptile-group-75921

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth

    Some aquatic & other monsters r most probably still out there:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lake_monsters

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptids#Aquatic_or_semi-aquatic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokele-mbembe

    https://www.livepterosaur.com/media/pterosaurs-in-Cuba/

    https://www.livepterosaur.com/LP_Blog/archives/1910

    https://www.modernpterosaur.com/?p=787&print=pdf

    https://www.livingpterosaur.com/blog/2011/10/25/orang-bati-of-indonesia/

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6f41mw



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    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:00 am

    The point is that a nuclear winter was supposed to have killed all the biggest dinosaurs, but the ocean was supposed to be full of dinosaurs too... they didn't evolve from reptiles to mammals and fish... and the occasional monster like a Loch Ness Monster hardly explains a serious change from dinosaurs into modern animals.

    I mean I realise reptiles love the heat, but so do insects prefer warmer temperatures.

    The first major extinction was in an earth with very little free oxygen and the extinction was caused by algae that started to photosynthesise and produce vast quantities of free oxygen... a very energetic active element... that probably killed off most of the living things of the time... obviously the living things producing it weren't killed by it either... it wiped out large amounts of life but created an environment where energy was much more plentiful and diversity was expanded to multicell organisms...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:53 pm

    The point is that a nuclear winter was supposed to have killed all the biggest dinosaurs, but the ocean was supposed to be full of dinosaurs too... they didn't evolve from reptiles to mammals and fish... and the occasional monster like a Loch Ness Monster hardly explains a serious change from dinosaurs into modern animals.
    I mean I realise reptiles love the heat, but so do insects prefer warmer temperatures.
    The ocean environment is more protective, but changing climate, currents/chemical composition of water, continental drift, volcanic activity, tsunamis, etc. all contributed to the extinction of most large marine reptiles & some fish. Later, some whale & marine bird species also went extinct. It's been an ongoing process on land & sea for Ms of years.
    Dinosaurs were warm blooded, some of them had feathers & lived in Northern & Southern latitudes with cold winters.
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    Post  starman on Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:....so 1,000km above that the temperature is hotter than an oven...

    Earth has a thermosphere too but neither should be considered a source of energy for life because the atmosphere at such heights is rarified.


    Well how do they explain all the massive dinosaurs that lived in the sea disappearing too... why were they all wiped out as well?

    Mosasaurs and plesiosaurs were reptiles, not dinosaurs. They died out for the same reason--collapse of the food chain due to impact dust (and soot from fires) obscuring the sun and curtailing photosynthesis--which hit big, energy intensive organisms especially hard.

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    Post  starman on Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:09 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    The ocean environment is more protective, but changing climate, currents/chemical composition of water, continental drift, volcanic activity, tsunamis, etc. all contributed to the extinction of most large marine reptiles & some fish.

    Chicxulub was the main killer, but regression by Maastrichtian time probably caused the loss of Archelon and perhaps icthyosaurs, though marine reptiles weren't finished yet.

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    Post  starman on Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:12 pm

    GarryB wrote:The point is that a nuclear winter was supposed to have killed all the biggest dinosaurs,

    Nuclear winter seems unlikely. At least one study noted the fern spore spike at the K-Pg boundary "rules out freezing temperatures..." The main problem was energy depletion. Many thermophilic organisms survived but energy intensive ones did not.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:50 am

    Obviously not an actual nuclear winter... there were no nuclear weapons at the time...
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    Post  starman on Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:41 am

    GarryB wrote:Obviously not an actual nuclear winter... there were no nuclear weapons at the time...

    Lol, of course. Chicxulub btw is said to have had the blast power of many nuclear bombs.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:37 pm

    The whole "meteor wiped out the dinosaurs" theory is exaggerated BS. I was there in Gubio on a conference trip to the location where the iridium layer was found back in 1974 (maybe
    a couple of years earlier). The layer is surrounded by pink limestone. It does not predate the pink limestone, there was a substantial layer formed before it. Pink limestone is the
    fingerprint of anoxic conditions in the ocean where the biochemistry flips from oxidizing to reducing. So Iron oxide is reduced to less oxidized or even oxygen free states. Reduced
    iron compounds give the limestone a pink tint instead of a beige-brown tint.

    The meteor would not have been able to wipe out dinosaur life in the oceans since the worst impacts on weather occur in the first two years when the
    ejected sediment can contaminate a substantial volume of the atmosphere (including the stratosphere and troposphere). But sedimentation and wet scavenging
    are very rapid and clear out the aerosol from atmosphere fast. Any CO2 injection into the atmosphere was clearly not the story at that time as evidenced by the pink limestone.
    And any CO2 release by the meteorite would not be so vast as to drive severe global warming all by itself.

    Science is diseased with silver bullet "theories" that purport to resolve problems via a single variable or process. I guess human brains are not the vast imagination and
    computer devices claimed to be. Reality is multivariate and all sorts of processes overlap nonlinearly.
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    Post  starman on Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:07 pm

    kvs wrote:The whole "meteor wiped out the dinosaurs" theory is exaggerated BS.

    For a time I opposed it myself, and I still believe other factors played some role. But face it, for quite some time, the impact theory has been so firmly established it's here to stay.
    I read Officer's book, and writings by Chatterjee and Keller questioning the role of Chicxulub. But it seems the last critics were silenced years ago. Some years back, a symposium reviewed all the evidence and affirmed the validity of the theory.


    The meteor would not have been able to wipe out dinosaur life in the oceans

    What "dinosaur life" in the oceans? As I wrote before, mosasaurs, plesiosaurs etc were not dinosaurs. Nor were azhdarchids, btw. But regardless of classification, the top of the marine food web was devastated by loss of the bottom--plankton.

    since the worst impacts on weather occur in the first two years....

    A single year, or 6 months, of minimal photosynthesis probably would've been more than sufficient to wipe out the most energy intensive organisms.


    Science is diseased with silver bullet "theories" that purport to resolve problems via a single variable or process.....

    The mid-late Maastrichtian witnessed some extinction which points to another key factor, at least in Laramidia. But we know a big impact coincided with a mass extinction on land and at sea, at the K-Pg, affecting the major energy consumers. Not all major extinctions were due to impact; the end Permian crisis owed much to volcanism. But the scientific consensus is that Chicxulub caused the K-Pg die off.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:26 am

    The Fermi Paradox asks why we haven't found any evidence of aliens. Here are 13 potential answers to that question.
    https://www.insider.com/why-no-contact-with-aliens-2019-9#planetary-scientist-alan-stern-meanwhile-thinks-its-possible-that-unlike-humans-on-earth-aliens-live-in-the-interior-of-their-respective-planets-which-is-why-weve-yet-to-find-signs-of-life-19
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    Post  starman on Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:48 am

    I don't buy that. I think ET has been here for some time albeit not openly.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:18 am

    NEAR-EARTH OBJECTS COULD BE USED BY EXTRATERRESTRIALS 'TO WATCH OUR WORLD,' STUNNING STUDY SUGGESTS
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    Post  starman on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:58 am

    Advanced ETs wouldn't need near-Earth objects. Vallee once noted a probe absorbent to light and radar could enter our atmosphere (much closer than a near earth object) and gather data unobserved. ETs could use nanoprobes or drones disguised as birds or insects.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:25 pm

    They can also monitor all radio/TV signals & the Internet, including military & Google Earth. No need for many space probes to exploit our cyberspace!
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:23 pm

    @ KVS

    I also am doubtful about theory of impact that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs. How did all the early feathered dinousars survive?  Granted they are smaller than T- Rex. But also Alligators survived. As did Frogs and insects.

    @ Tsavo Lion

    Why are the aliens not here yet? Good question. They now estimate one in five stars has planet like Earth. We have also been listening to Radio for hundred years. Yet no signal. So these two can be compared. I think it means there are no Radio civilizations within 100 light years. But how many stars are there within 100 light years? And how many Earth like planets? This gives approximate value to other variables in Drake equation. The number of planets with life or intelligent life. Can we work out approximate figures now from Drake equation?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation


    @ starman

    Agree. If I send a smoke signal from house now. Nobody will reply to me. But this does not mean there is nobody outside my house. The aliens could be using altogether different tech. Faster more efficient.



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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:42 pm

    The Drake equation isn't relevant. Most planets with advanced civilizations r not Earth-like &/ near Sun-like stars. Many of them could now be on planets that weren't originally theirs.
    Why should they try to colonize Earth with all its problems? The Annunaki came from bigger Nibiru (see my prev. posts), created us, but they weren't going to stay here long anyway. There r Ks, if not Ms of other planets in our galaxy more suitable to life. Our planet isn't worth it.
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm

    The scientists tell us there is no life, so far detected on other planets in our solar system. Only on Earth. With particular conditions. So it is reasonable that these conditions are necessary for life and to look for planets with similar conditions. They say one in five stars has planet like Earth.

    Regarding aliens visiting Earth. So far no conclusive evidence found. But lack of evidence does not mean there is no possibility. The balance of probability favours visitations.  Drake equation irrelevant? Why?  We can say that it may hold true for all Earth like organisms. But may be not for all !

    http://www.solstation.com/stars3/100-as.htm

    http://www.solstation.com/stars3/100-fs.htm

    There are about 300 F type stars ( yellow) within 100 light years. That means 60 Earth like planets. And since age of stars similar to Earth, then intelligent life should coincide with that of Earth. But not yet detected. This means intelligent life less abundant than one in sixty Earth like planets!



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