Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Army ATGM Thread

    avatar
    Cyrus the great

    Posts : 282
    Points : 290
    Join date : 2015-06-12

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:22 am



    Thanks for your extensive reply, Gary

    The reason I emphasise portability is due to the need to move quickly in ambush engagements and a 63 kg platform would be a pain to move. I mis-calculated the weight of each component of the Kornet E; I was under the impression that the 1PN79-1 thermal sight included the laser designator but that's embodied in a separate system in the 1P45-1 sight-tracker. It's clear that I was wrong about the Kornet and what could reasonably be achieved with it. I believe that an improved variant of the Metis-M1 could be improved rather inexpensively to exploit its portability and lethality:


    a) This Metis-M1 variant could have its guidance updated with fiber-optics -- replacing its current wire link, thereby increasing range. It has the same potential -as the Spike LR- (12.7 kg) to have a range of 5 km

    b) It could work in concert with small, inexpensive tactical drones to provide an image of the targets in the battle space and the missile itself during its entire flight. Such tactical drones would be very useful with the inclusion of an auto-tracker similar to that of the Kornet-D only that it would use jam-resistant radio guidance

    c) It could be provided with a top-attack mode to fire safely behind cover and exploit terrain and not be constrained by it; in its direct mode it could travel 5 meters above the ground to avoid obstructions and fly 30 meters above the ground to overcome the limits of terrain. With its 900-950mm of penetration it could destroy any MBT.

    d) A soft launch ability would further increase its utility in confined spaces

    This Metis-M1 variant would retain its inexpensive guidance and all its current components while gaining new abilities and greater flexibility without being prohibitively expensive.
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1806
    Points : 1801
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:09 pm

    Sup guys, i am having a hard time finding info on the latest variant of the Konkurs, the 9N131M2-1, the only thing i found was some mention of it when IS fighter captured some.
    That one showed a manufacturing date of 2006.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13787
    Points : 14280
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:07 pm

    ΑΤGM missiles Fagot or Konkurs against Leopard2-A4



    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 3913
    Points : 3903
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Isos on Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:35 pm

    George1 wrote:ΑΤGM missiles Fagot or Konkurs against Leopard2-A4




    Wtf ? That's worse than iraqi t-72. And it was even not a kornet. A4 model is completly outdated.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Guest on Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:29 pm

    George1 wrote:ΑΤGM missiles Fagot or Konkurs against Leopard2-A4




    Konkurs i believe.
    Interlinked
    Interlinked

    Posts : 160
    Points : 162
    Join date : 2017-11-07

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Interlinked on Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:25 am

    I wonder what the fanboys have to say about this Laughing
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:28 am

    Seems to have hit the ammo... so the result is what happens to any tank hit in its ammo bin...

    I am sure the fanbois will say that is an old model tank and all those problems are fixed now....
    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1546
    Points : 1724
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:16 pm

    does anyone know how many of the following are in service?


    Kornet-D
    Kornet-T
    Khrizantema-S (bmp-3)
    BRDM-2 with Konkurs
    BRDM-2 with Shturm
    BRDM-2 with Fagot
    BRDM-2 with Malyutka/sagger

    and has any Metis system been mounted on any vehicle?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:52 pm

    Sorry, I don't have any figures for you, but Shturm was never fitted to the BRDM vehicle.

    the version that carried Konkurs could also carry Faggot as they shared a launcher design (the BMP-2 eventually got a dual launcher that could fire either too)

    The Ataka and Shturm was carried on a modified MTLB and was called Shturm-S.

    Like the BRDM-3 with Konkurs and Faggot it could fire both missile types including mixes of the different weapons.

    I actually quite like the BRDM-3... with its missile launcher fully retracted it just looked like a BRDM-2 minus the turret.
    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1546
    Points : 1724
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:23 am

    GarryB wrote:Sorry, I don't have any figures for you, but Shturm was never fitted to the BRDM vehicle.

    the version that carried Konkurs could also carry Faggot as they shared a launcher design (the BMP-2 eventually got a dual launcher that could fire either too)

    The Ataka and Shturm was carried on a modified MTLB and was called Shturm-S.

    Like the BRDM-3 with Konkurs and Faggot it could fire both missile types including mixes of the different weapons.

    I actually quite like the BRDM-3... with its missile launcher fully retracted it just looked like a BRDM-2 minus the turret.

    ok thanks for the information and but what systems are still in service?
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3241
    Points : 3273
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  franco on Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:51 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Sorry, I don't have any figures for you, but Shturm was never fitted to the BRDM vehicle.

    the version that carried Konkurs could also carry Faggot as they shared a launcher design (the BMP-2 eventually got a dual launcher that could fire either too)

    The Ataka and Shturm was carried on a modified MTLB and was called Shturm-S.

    Like the BRDM-3 with Konkurs and Faggot it could fire both missile types including mixes of the different weapons.

    I actually quite like the BRDM-3... with its missile launcher fully retracted it just looked like a BRDM-2 minus the turret.

    ok thanks for the information and but what systems are still in service?

    Shturm-S - ~900
    BRDM-2 with Konkurs - ~100
    BTR-RD - ~100 (reported switching to Kornet from Konkurs)
    Khrizantema-S - >100 (in production)
    Kornet-D - >100 (in production)

    0nillie0
    0nillie0

    Posts : 160
    Points : 162
    Join date : 2016-05-15
    Age : 33
    Location : Flanders, Belgium

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  0nillie0 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:07 pm

    franco wrote:

    Shturm-S - ~900
    BRDM-2 with Konkurs - ~100
    BTR-RD - ~100 (reported switching to Kornet from Konkurs)
    Khrizantema-S - >100 (in production)
    Kornet-D - >100 (in production)


    Has there been a significant number of upgrades of the Shturm-S to SME level ? AFAIK the original Shturm-S lacks in night fighting or adverse weather capabilities, where as the SM(E) upgrade introduced the capability to fire the improved Shturm variants such as Ataka, while also adding thermal imaging. Please correct me if i am wrong.

    Also, is there any info about the BMP-3 based Kornet-D (Kornet-P ?) platform ? AFAIK only the Tigr based platform has been adopted?
    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeXn3ixdZuXbYGNqjmBRkZpfk_Tc0gr6vF6cBThRk30bvO23vy9Q
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3241
    Points : 3273
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  franco on Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:27 pm

    0nillie0 wrote:

    Has there been a significant number of upgrades of the Shturm-S to SME level ? AFAIK the original Shturm-S lacks in night fighting or adverse weather capabilities, where as the SM(E) upgrade introduced the capability to fire the improved Shturm variants such as Ataka, while also adding thermal imaging. Please correct me if i am wrong.

    Also, is there any info about the BMP-3 based Kornet-D (Kornet-P ?) platform ? AFAIK only the Tigr based platform has been adopted?
    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeXn3ixdZuXbYGNqjmBRkZpfk_Tc0gr6vF6cBThRk30bvO23vy9Q

    There are SME's level but how many??

    Have not seen BMP-3 Kornet-D and with limited bodies being produced don't expect to. Bigger weapon needs larger delivery system.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3565
    Points : 3649
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:19 am

    0nillie0 wrote:Also, is there any info about the BMP-3 based Kornet-D (Kornet-P ?) platform ? AFAIK only the Tigr based platform has been adopted?

    It's called the Kornet-T and yes it has been adopted, and before the Kornet-D (the Tigr based platform). Some parties have been produced and sent to units.

    A Polish military journal lists 18 of them of having been introduced into service last year;
    https://altyn73.livejournal.com/2018/03/13/

    But another batch had already been introduced years earlier; according to this article:
    http://www.military-today.com/missiles/kornet_t.htm
    avatar
    AttilaA

    Posts : 155
    Points : 186
    Join date : 2011-10-13

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Tank Destroyers

    Post  AttilaA on Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:05 pm

    Khrizantema-S of Azerbaijani Army in action.



    Azerbaijani Khrizantemas are equipped with the new 1K118P sight from Peleng.

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 4430537a3803

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 20585c872fba

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 725c33d58521


    Last edited by AttilaA on Tue May 15, 2018 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13787
    Points : 14280
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  George1 on Sun May 13, 2018 3:51 pm

    Artillery units of Western MD receive a batch of Shturm-S anti-tank self-propelled systems

    http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12174873@egNews
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Guest on Sun May 13, 2018 4:03 pm

    George1 wrote:Artillery units of Western MD receive a batch of Shturm-S anti-tank self-propelled systems

    http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12174873@egNews

    Just tell me these are not new build as it would make 0 sense whatsoever.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 14, 2018 2:05 am


    Just tell me these are not new build as it would make 0 sense whatsoever.

    There is no reason why they could not have unified the design... Shturm can fire both Shturm and Ataka... and the only thing the Krisantema adds is slightly more range.

    I would suspect that a supersonic missile able to hit helicopters and ground vehicles with a range of 6km is plenty for most targets and mass produced in enormous numbers over the years for the Hind...

    They are rather better than any TOW or HOT based western system, and would still be very useful against a range of targets... their command guidance is incredibly cheap, and performance is pretty good for all models.

    As a note... modern helos carry DIRCMS to stop IR and optically guided missiles... which would have no effect on Shturm or Ataka or Krisantema...
    TheArmenian
    TheArmenian

    Posts : 1812
    Points : 1963
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon May 14, 2018 3:24 am

    SHTURM-S system has been out of production for many many years. The current production is KHRIZANTEMA.

    The MTLB tracked vehicle  on which  SHTURM is based was made in what is now Ukraine. Production of that vehicle ceased a long time ago.

    The re-equipment of that unit is from stored Shturm systems.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2273
    Points : 2271
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Hole on Mon May 14, 2018 11:00 am

    Propably refurbished.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 15, 2018 4:58 am

    In that case I suspect it is a stopgap system until I would presume a new equivalent vehicle is developed... I would think a Kurganets vehicle platform would be a bit heavy, but then I also would suspect for each different unit the MTLB vehicle base will be replaced by the relevant design... Armata in an armata brigade/division, Kurganets in a kurganets brigade/division, Boomerang in a boomerang brigade/division, and Typhoon in a typhoon brigade/division.

    In such a case this is temporary gap filling.

    Of course with similar replacements for all other platforms I would think there would be a large number of vehicles that with new technology could actually operate effectively on their own as their communications and targeting mean they could operate independently... a good example would be the 2S1, which would normally be operating in a group and move to a predetermined area of level ground to fire a volley and then move to a new location before retaliation rounds hit... with the upgrade of communications and ballistics and navigation equipment you could have 6 vehicles in 6 different places receiving the order to fire and they could fire independently from their location to synchronise the impacts to all the round arrived together but from totally different locations... which they will immediately move away from...

    For artillery that is an advantage... for air defence it would be better, but for anti armour is that better?

    Perhaps a 4 tube launch arm that can fire on four targets and engage 4 separate targets at one time and then move... a higher energy rocket motor and perhaps ramjet sustainer to increase velocity by three times, with auto trackers to follow the targets and missiles and command guidance or laser beam riding guidance...

    BTW is ATAKA still in production... it was a useful missile... not every target requires the extra penetration of the Krisantema...
    TheArmenian
    TheArmenian

    Posts : 1812
    Points : 1963
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue May 15, 2018 6:48 am

    Of course ATAKA missile is in production. It is used on the Sturm-S system, the BMPT Terminator, the Uran-9 Robot and on the attack helicopters (Mi-28, Ka-52 etc.) etc. etc.

    KHRIZANTEMA is entering production very slowly partly because it is expensive and partly because the ATAKA is still very good.

    Note that the Shturm-S system has replaced the older SHTURM missile with the ATAKA.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 15, 2018 10:26 am

    Actually thinking about it... there are not really any other ATGM carrier platforms anywhere else on a tank vehicle chassis like an Armata... people talk about light wheeled vehicles with tank guns but I think platforms with ATGMs... ie tank level fire power are much more interesting... especially with Shturm and Ataka missiles, which would actually make rather good SAMs as well as anti armour missiles.

    The new Krisantema has an enlarged nose to cater for the bigger 152mm calibre warhead... would be interesting if they made the body fatter with a more powerful rocket motor with greater speed and range...

    But for now Ataka are accurate and powerful enough for 95% of targets, have good speed and range, and are cheap enough to be used in enormous numbers...

    I wonder what the costs of the command guidance system for ATAKA and Krisantema are, and how they compare with the laser beam riding guidance of Kornet and most Soviet tank launched 125mm gun missile rounds... it seems strange that the heavy aircraft launched missiles seem to have less range than the improved land based Kornet...

    Ahh, well... when Hermes gets into service its very high speed and much greater range will change things around a bit... I do suspect the ATAKA will remain the chosen UCAV missile for its size and cost, with performance that is good enough.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2273
    Points : 2271
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Hole on Tue May 15, 2018 11:03 am

    The 9M120-1 Ataka-1 hastwo guidance systems: radio command and laser-beam riding. In production since 2010. Intended for the Ka-52 and... wait for it!... the 9K132 Shturm-SM. Maybe this Shturm systems were modernised to this standard.
    avatar
    AttilaA

    Posts : 155
    Points : 186
    Join date : 2011-10-13

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  AttilaA on Tue May 15, 2018 12:44 pm

    Khrizantema has dual laser beam riding & radar guidance. The only similarity between Khrizantema and ATAKA is that they are both supersonic missiles.




    Last edited by AttilaA on Sun May 20, 2018 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total

    Sponsored content

    Russian Army ATGM Thread - Page 15 Empty Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:38 pm