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    Russian Army ATGM Thread

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    franco

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  franco on Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:55 pm

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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:49 pm

    A new episode in the series Voennaya Priomka will be shown in a few days.
    This time it will be about the Khrisantema ATGM.

    Here is the trailer:

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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:58 pm



    9M123 Khrizantema-S
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:35 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    9M123 Khrizantema-S

    no selfdefense MG on AGTM carrier?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:45 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    9M123 Khrizantema-S

    no selfdefense MG on AGTM carrier?

    Depends on platform and customer request i suppose.



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    George1

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:08 pm

    Khrizantema-S: Why Russia's Ultimate Tank Killer Cannot Be Defeated

    With a floristic name (translated as "golden daisy") that belies its deadly nature, Russia’s Khrizantema-S supersonic anti-tank missile was designed to destroy current and future main battle tanks, including those protected with explosive reactive armor, small-displacement surface vessels, low-flying aerial targets and field fortifications.

    The Khrizantema’s 9M123 missile travels at an average speed of 400 m/s and has a range of between 400 and 6000 meters.

    The system is also unique among Russian anti-tank guided missiles in that, depending on the variant, its missile can either be guided by laser or radar.

    Each missile carries a tandem high explosive anti-tank warhead with a reported penetration of 1.2 m homogeneous armor behind explosive reactive armor – an absolute record.

    By contrast, America’s much-touted Javelin anti-tank missile which the Ukrainians are so eager to get, boasts maximum penetration capacity of just 70 centimeters.

    Israel’s Spike-MR/LR missile does a bit better cutting through 1 m of armor but is still no match for its Russian analogue.

    The 9M123 missile together with its associated guidance system forms the 9K123 missile system. It is currently only launched from the 9P157-2

    Khrizantema-S tank destroyer, based on the BMP-3 chassis. Its dual guidance system ensures protection against electronic countermeasures and operation in all climatic conditions, day or night.

    The system entered service with the Russian armed forces in 2005.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151206/1031319158/russia-missile-features.html#ixzz3tXtXcM3C


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    max steel

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  max steel on Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:44 pm

    George1 wrote:Khrizantema-S: Why Russia's Ultimate Tank Killer Cannot Be Defeated

    With a floristic name (translated as "golden daisy") that belies its deadly nature, Russia’s Khrizantema-S supersonic anti-tank missile was designed to destroy current and future main battle tanks, including those protected with explosive reactive armor, small-displacement surface vessels, low-flying aerial targets and field fortifications.

    The Khrizantema’s 9M123 missile travels at an average speed of 400 m/s and has a range of between 400 and 6000 meters.

    The system is also unique among Russian anti-tank guided missiles in that, depending on the variant, its missile can either be guided by laser or radar.

    Each missile carries a tandem high explosive anti-tank warhead with a reported penetration of 1.2 m homogeneous armor behind explosive reactive armor – an absolute record.

    By contrast, America’s much-touted Javelin anti-tank missile which the Ukrainians are so eager to get, boasts maximum penetration capacity of just 70 centimeters.

    Israel’s Spike-MR/LR missile does a bit better cutting through 1 m of armor but is still no match for its Russian analogue.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151206/1031319158/russia-missile-features.html#ixzz3tXtXcM3C
    But isn't 70cm penetration enough to basically destroy any MBT?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:05 pm

    max steel wrote:
    George1 wrote:Khrizantema-S: Why Russia's Ultimate Tank Killer Cannot Be Defeated

    With a floristic name (translated as "golden daisy") that belies its deadly nature, Russia’s Khrizantema-S supersonic anti-tank missile was designed to destroy current and future main battle tanks, including those protected with explosive reactive armor, small-displacement surface vessels, low-flying aerial targets and field fortifications.

    The Khrizantema’s 9M123 missile travels at an average speed of 400 m/s and has a range of between 400 and 6000 meters.

    The system is also unique among Russian anti-tank guided missiles in that, depending on the variant, its missile can either be guided by laser or radar.

    Each missile carries a tandem high explosive anti-tank warhead with a reported penetration of 1.2 m homogeneous armor behind explosive reactive armor – an absolute record.

    By contrast, America’s much-touted Javelin anti-tank missile which the Ukrainians are so eager to get, boasts maximum penetration capacity of just 70 centimeters.

    Israel’s Spike-MR/LR missile does a bit better cutting through 1 m of armor but is still no match for its Russian analogue.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151206/1031319158/russia-missile-features.html#ixzz3tXtXcM3C
    But isn't 70cm penetration enough to basically destroy any MBT?

    Depends. Where you hit, angle, does target has reactive armor... Take in mind that most of the tanks in field are equiped wih composite armors whos RHA value is very high, 700mm RHA wont be good enough for many of them especially if we talk about frontal lobe and turret armor.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:31 pm

    Not from front or angle.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:56 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    max steel wrote:
    George1 wrote:Khrizantema-S: Why Russia's Ultimate Tank Killer Cannot Be Defeated

    With a floristic name (translated as "golden daisy") that belies its deadly nature, Russia’s Khrizantema-S supersonic anti-tank missile was designed to destroy current and future main battle tanks, including those protected with explosive reactive armor, small-displacement surface vessels, low-flying aerial targets and field fortifications.

    The Khrizantema’s 9M123 missile travels at an average speed of 400 m/s and has a range of between 400 and 6000 meters.

    The system is also unique among Russian anti-tank guided missiles in that, depending on the variant, its missile can either be guided by laser or radar.

    Each missile carries a tandem high explosive anti-tank warhead with a reported penetration of 1.2 m homogeneous armor behind explosive reactive armor – an absolute record.

    By contrast, America’s much-touted Javelin anti-tank missile which the Ukrainians are so eager to get, boasts maximum penetration capacity of just 70 centimeters.

    Israel’s Spike-MR/LR missile does a bit better cutting through 1 m of armor but is still no match for its Russian analogue.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151206/1031319158/russia-missile-features.html#ixzz3tXtXcM3C
    But isn't 70cm penetration enough to basically destroy any MBT?

    Depends. Where you hit, angle, does target has reactive armor... Take in mind that most of the tanks in field are equiped wih composite armors whos RHA value is very high, 700mm RHA wont be good enough for many of them especially if we talk about frontal lobe and turret armor.

    We actually don't know about what's real or not. We were said a lot of crap during the post GW1 & 2 era.

    Now we see Abrams taking potshots by Konkurs and brewing. War is SNAFU on a supersize. Khrizantema's superiority is the range, and as i analyzed with the JAN video on that Nujaba position, that range allows it to pick what it wants in the formation. If your axis of penetration with MBT's is less that 5km large, then you're toast, your tanks will get hit on the side, your AFV's on from every angle.

    One has to understand the Kriz for what it is, a standoff weapon, same for Tamuz in the IDF. It allows a BVR engagement of armour in total blind mode. You track the threat and hit it from 10/15 km on the money. I'd take my chances defending with a Soviet/Russian ATGM company vs a mechanized US company any day NOW. I wouldn't have said this two years from now.



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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:13 pm

    Well there are a lot of nonsense that appeared right after US so migthy and godlike knightly crusade for democracy.

    The constant re-phrased myth no abrams was ever destroyed, but somehow over 80 Abrams have been unable to be repaired with dozens over dozens canabalized. The funny assumption blow off panels actually work under all circumstances and magically ignore physics. They have been showen to have no purpose as soon as HE rounds are loaded or HEAT rounds penetrate the armor along with the backside of the crew compartment isolating metal sheet that is very thin and not armored at all. The result was the M1A2S beeing cooked along with its crew. The most ridiculous and annoying is the video game RHAe values thrown around along with the HEAT being "inferior" to KE while KE is inferior in after armor penetration aswell is limited to tank guns only while HEAT can be found on every plattform that has any intention of being used against armor with penetration capabilities that are beyond any APFSDS in existence.

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:32 am

    Great interview

    the deputy managing editor of the "Independent Military Review" Oleg Odnokolenko told representatives of divisions engaged in the development of anti-tank weapons, Mikhail Andreev and Sergei MAST.

    "Cornet-AM" - ATRA without complexes


    Precision weapons production JSC "Instrument Design Bureau named. Academician AG Shipunova" able to hit any target on the battlefield

    http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2016-03-18/10_kornet.html
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:10 am

    hi i wonder if anyone can shed some light, about 6 weeks ago i saw a source (but can't find it now) stating that the AT-3 sagger D/2M faster speed and a improved warhead 4.2 kg tandem HEAT warhead 1,000 mm penetration RHA, improved capability against ERA and entered service mid 1990's, and that it was still in service with some Russian units, is this true i thought they were all replaced with AT-4 and AT-5.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Militarov on Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:30 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:hi i wonder if anyone can shed some light, about 6 weeks ago i saw a source (but can't find it now) stating that the AT-3 sagger D/2M faster speed and a improved warhead 4.2 kg tandem HEAT warhead 1,000 mm penetration RHA, improved capability against ERA and entered service mid 1990's, and that it was still in service with some Russian units, is this true i thought they were all replaced with AT-4 and AT-5.

    9M14-2M and 9M14-2F, yes, however i am not sure how many ever saw service in Russia. But if they did those were probably delivered to units that still operated BRDM-2 variant dubbed 9P122 "Malyutka" and BMP-1s that had launcher above main gun.

    Best Malytka variant to my knowledge is however Serbian 9M14-2T which has 4,4kg tandem HEAT warhead.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  max steel on Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:19 am

    Do Kornets really have a range of 10 km?
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Militarov on Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:22 am

    max steel wrote:Do Kornets really have a range of 10 km?

    Kornet-M/D does, but only with thermobaric 9M133F-1 missile.
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    Zivo

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Zivo on Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:24 am

    max steel wrote:Do Kornets really have a range of 10 km?

    IIRC, only the thermobaric version. The HEAT variant is like 8.



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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:18 am

    There's a persistent rumour that Russia has gotten hold of a batch of Spike MR. Last Winter.

    My Iz friends are insisting its through official channel.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:11 pm

    I doubt it. There is too much of a push on localized everything, there wouldn't be room for it. They pretty much stopped all imports of foreign military equipment, even subcomponents.

    It would have had to be from before or early 2014.
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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:44 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I doubt it. There is too much of a push on localized everything, there wouldn't be room for it. They pretty much stopped all imports of foreign military equipment, even subcomponents.

    It would have had to be from before or early 2014.

    It's not an import, it's a "gift"...part of the Washington paranoïa package. This pushed Washington to make Sure Israel doesn't sell anything to Russia.

    Also the Chinese have already benefitted from Israeli gifts to make their own HJ-12. Which is a Chinese mix between Javelin and Spike SR.



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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:49 pm

    I see. Guess if they did get it, may get the knowhow from it when developing hermes.
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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:57 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I doubt it. There is too much of a push on localized everything, there wouldn't be room for it. They pretty much stopped all imports of foreign military equipment, even subcomponents.

    It would have had to be from before or early 2014.

    It's not an import, it's a "gift"...part of the Washington paranoïa package. This pushed Washington to make Sure Israel doesn't sell anything to Russia.

    Also the Chinese have already benefitted from Israeli gifts to make their own HJ-12. Which is a Chinese mix between Javelin and Spike SR.




    Russia's been there done that. Back in the 90's they had a program to produce a top attack ATGM, and it didn't get any where, probably because they're gimmicky and easily defeated by PPS.

    As far Israeli gifts to China, there's a reason why China has been successful in military industrial espionage, largely because naive limp-wristed U.S. based neo-cons leave the 'backdoor' open (interpret it how you want to) for Israeli's, the rise of China's MIC is largely because of Russian and Israeli ToT....oh sweet poetic justice... lol1
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:06 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I see. Guess if they did get it, may get the knowhow from it when developing hermes.

    Hermes is already on par with the heavy Tamuz. So there's nothing to "learn" from Spike MR regarding Hermes. The biggest thing might be the miniaturization of visual control units, although it isn't more complicated than a drone.

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  Austin on Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:29 pm

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Army ATGM Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:35 pm

    Took a while for the propaganda to appear. It only survived due to a piss poor shot and more or less miss.

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