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    Military budget of the Russian Federation

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:05 am

    Kimppis wrote:Exactly. And how much is that $26 billion (lol!)? Something like 2% of the GDP? Again, by the early 2020s that would be way below 2%, which is almost nothing. Putin the pacifist, lmao.  

    Russian economy could grow 2%+ already this year. So by the end of 2018, Russian economy should already be larger than it was at the end of 2014, no?

    It would be roughly recover half of what was lost (total about 4%) if it grew by 2% in 2017.  $25B is not even 3%.  So there is something seriously wrong with the calculations.  Which leads me to believe that this is either purely for procurement or Franco's article is crap.  If they get only $12T, then rest assured, the planned modernization of Russia's military will be deemed a failure.

    What is funny though, is a huge portion of Russia's wealth gained from export is military goods. If they cut back R&D then expect less countries to purchase Russian military equipment as it will start to fall behind, and ultimately, destroy Russia's own MIC, which would have effects greater than what money they saved........

    Fuck I swear Russia has retarded leadership and economists.
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:10 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:Exactly. And how much is that $26 billion (lol!)? Something like 2% of the GDP? Again, by the early 2020s that would be way below 2%, which is almost nothing. Putin the pacifist, lmao.  

    Russian economy could grow 2%+ already this year. So by the end of 2018, Russian economy should already be larger than it was at the end of 2014, no?

    It would be roughly recover half of what was lost (total about 4%) if it grew by 2% in 2017.  $25B is not even 3%.  So there is something seriously wrong with the calculations.  Which leads me to believe that this is either purely for procurement or Franco's article is crap.  If they get only $12T, then rest assured, the planned modernization of Russia's military will be deemed a failure.

    After the recent adjustments, I the decline was at most something like 3% (the economy actually grew in 2014). +0.6% in 2014, -2.7% in 2015 and -0.3% last year, roughly. $25 billion isn't even close 3%, I think it's very close to 2%. So barely 2% this year. In a few years it would be even less.

    That is just what the economists want. I think it's like that in every country, or in Russia even before the current program started.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:21 am

    Kimppis wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:Exactly. And how much is that $26 billion (lol!)? Something like 2% of the GDP? Again, by the early 2020s that would be way below 2%, which is almost nothing. Putin the pacifist, lmao.  

    Russian economy could grow 2%+ already this year. So by the end of 2018, Russian economy should already be larger than it was at the end of 2014, no?

    It would be roughly recover half of what was lost (total about 4%) if it grew by 2% in 2017.  $25B is not even 3%.  So there is something seriously wrong with the calculations.  Which leads me to believe that this is either purely for procurement or Franco's article is crap.  If they get only $12T, then rest assured, the planned modernization of Russia's military will be deemed a failure.

    After the recent adjustments, I the decline was at most something like 3% (the economy actually grew in 2014). +0.6% in 2014, -2.7% in 2015 and -0.3% last year, roughly. $25 billion isn't even close 3%, I think it's very close to 2%. So barely 2% this year. In a few years it would be even less.

    That is just what the economists want. I think it's like that in every country, or in Russia even before the current program started.

    Yeah, there is no way that 12T will be approved. Because the program is for 2018 - 2025. Already it was approved from 2017 - 2019 of roughly over 2T per year in terms of defense spending. So what, after 2020 it will be less than a 1T for defense spending? That doesn't add up. None of this adds up.
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:46 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:Exactly. And how much is that $26 billion (lol!)? Something like 2% of the GDP? Again, by the early 2020s that would be way below 2%, which is almost nothing. Putin the pacifist, lmao.  

    Russian economy could grow 2%+ already this year. So by the end of 2018, Russian economy should already be larger than it was at the end of 2014, no?

    It would be roughly recover half of what was lost (total about 4%) if it grew by 2% in 2017.  $25B is not even 3%.  So there is something seriously wrong with the calculations.  Which leads me to believe that this is either purely for procurement or Franco's article is crap.  If they get only $12T, then rest assured, the planned modernization of Russia's military will be deemed a failure.

    After the recent adjustments, I the decline was at most something like 3% (the economy actually grew in 2014). +0.6% in 2014, -2.7% in 2015 and -0.3% last year, roughly. $25 billion isn't even close 3%, I think it's very close to 2%. So barely 2% this year. In a few years it would be even less.

    That is just what the economists want. I think it's like that in every country, or in Russia even before the current program started.

    Yeah, there is no way that 12T will be approved.  Because the program is for 2018 - 2025.  Already it was approved from 2017 - 2019 of roughly over 2T per year in terms of defense spending.  So what, after 2020 it will be less than a 1T for defense spending?  That doesn't add up.  None of this adds up.

    Exactly, I just realized that myself and was about to post a comment. So they already have a 3 year budget until 2019 that allocates roughly the same amount for the military as in 2017, over 2 trillion per year. Not to mention that that 1.5 trillion would be below 2% of GDP before 2020! Total BS. Russia is not going to spend less than 2% of the GDP on the military, that's for sure and even that would be low.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:39 am

    They will end up meeting somewhere in the middle I imagine. Hence why 12T vs 30T. But there is the question if this is purely procurement budget or not.
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    kvs

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:29 am

    These articles are an information war inside Russia to pimp the monetarist agenda. Create hysteria over "financial instability" from
    deficits greater than 3% and then coerce the elected leaders to introduce austerity. Putin needs to buy a clue and fast. Go to
    the freaking library and look at some macroeconomics texts. Hell, go on the web and check out what the UK, US, Japan and the
    rest of the developed world is doing. None of them are following the monetarist voodoo being pushed inside Russia.
    Please, Putin, this is not optional. Wake the f*ck up.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:36 am

    kvs wrote:These articles are an information war inside Russia to pimp the monetarist agenda.   Create hysteria over "financial instability" from
    deficits greater than 3% and then coerce the elected leaders to introduce austerity.    Putin needs to buy a clue and fast.   Go to
    the freaking library and look at some macroeconomics texts.   Hell, go on the web and check out what the UK, US, Japan and the
    rest of the developed world is doing.   None of them are following the monetarist voodoo being pushed inside Russia.
    Please, Putin, this is not optional.   Wake the f*ck up.

    Hell, even if the defense budget is 3%, it wouldn't really affect deficit. This is simply pandering to nobody and risking having ones nation, whom is nearly under direct attack, to give up. Defense spending of 12T rubles is fricking nothing. Hell, Russia wont even be in the top 20 soon enough with a budget like that. Pretty fucking pathetic for a nation as large as Russia and that has its own MIC. What maybe the idiots in the Kremlin don't realize is how much money they made from sale of weapons and how important it is to keep up development.

    Unless they are taking a page from India where they have a pretty low defense budget and it is reflected by their piss poor military.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:49 pm

    Franco, could you please confirm or deny the question I gave? That if the proposed budget is for defense spending overall or if it is mostly procurement?
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    franco

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  franco on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:08 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Franco, could you please confirm or deny the question I gave?  That if the proposed budget is for defense spending overall or if it is mostly procurement?

    1. Total is overall.
    2. 2016 GDP was 84 trillion. Defense spending was around 4%
    3. Putin has publicly stated they need to spend at least 3%.
    4. It's all just talk until they finalize and not sure if they are even talking apples to oranges from these reporters.
    5. Defense budgets are 10 year plans reviewed every 5 years.
    6. Is 12 trillion for 5 years or 10? Is 30 trillion for 10 years or 5?
    7. 3% of 84 trillion is ~ 2.5 trillion.
    8. By the end of 2020, infrastructure of the bases and units should be complete. Equipment will be 70%+ modernized. Manpower should be around 1,000,000 with only 28% being conscripts. 3% GDP should allow maintenance and new equipment purchases of such a force.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:18 pm

    franco wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Franco, could you please confirm or deny the question I gave?  That if the proposed budget is for defense spending overall or if it is mostly procurement?

    1. Total is overall.
    2. 2016 GDP was 84 trillion. Defense spending was around 4%
    3. Putin has publicly stated they need to spend at least 3%.
    4. It's all just talk until they finalize and not sure if they are even talking apples to oranges from these reporters.
    5. Defense budgets are 10 year plans reviewed every 5 years.
    6. Is 12 trillion for 5 years or 10? Is 30 trillion for 10 years or 5?
    7. 3% of 84 trillion is ~ 2.5 trillion.
    8. By the end of 2020, infrastructure of the bases and units should be complete. Equipment will be 70%+ modernized. Manpower should be around 1,000,000 with only 28% being conscripts. 3% GDP should allow maintenance and new equipment purchases of such a force.

    this is what I have been thinking. Pretty spot on with this post. Thank you.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:00 am

    I don't understand much about economics , probably never will.
    But can someone please explain me why the Orangutan in the kremlin
    Mr Putin is not taking seriously its defense budget?  

    The times Russians are living today,their danger ,is at the level of Operation barbarrosa When Nazis declare war on soviet Union and invade it. Just
    days or weeks earlier ,when it was know ,war was 80% to 90% chance to happen. You just have know americans firing the first shots ,threatening the
    lives of Russian soldiers in Syria.and saying there will be more.

    So first question is 1)why Russia spend only 2% or 3% of its GDP on its military.Why not 20% or 30% or 40% ?  Russia could be in a world war 3 in a matter  of days or weeks in many fronts , not only in Syria and Ukraine ,but kaliningrad ,Serbia ,Tajikistan,Armenia. So if my country was withing weeks
    of a nuclear war ,then why in hell just spend budget so little in defense?  I mean Russia could had cancel the stupid FIFA and save there a dozen of billions $USD.  

    Second question is 2) What kind of budget Russia could get for defense if it knew ,a nuclear war was 50% of happening with NATO ?

    If it was by me.. i will had like 40% of the budget at least ,in defense ,to cover ARmy ,airforce,Navy and for the militarization of Space. and completely
    move out of all international sports ,cut funds to all pensioners that are not Russian citizens and significantly reduce the the expending in electricity and roads and paralize all housing projects and have everyone working in the defense industry building tanks or planes.
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:53 am

    Vann7 wrote:I don't understand much about economics , probably never will.
    But can someone please explain me why the Orangutan in the kremlin
    Mr Putin is not taking seriously its defense budget?  

    The times Russians are living today,their danger ,is at the level of Operation barbarrosa When Nazis declare war on soviet Union and invade it. Just
    days or weeks earlier ,when it was know ,war was 80% to 90% chance to happen. You just have know americans firing the first shots ,threatening the
    lives of Russian soldiers in Syria.and saying there will be more.

    So first question is 1)why Russia spend only 2% or 3% of its GDP on its military.Why not 20% or 30% or 40% ?  Russia could be in a world war 3 in a matter  of days or weeks in many fronts , not only in Syria and Ukraine ,but kaliningrad ,Serbia ,Tajikistan,Armenia. So if my country was withing weeks
    of a nuclear war ,then why in hell just spend budget so little in defense?  I mean Russia could had cancel the stupid FIFA and save there a dozen of billions $USD.  

    Second question is 2) What kind of budget Russia could get for defense if it knew ,a nuclear war was 50% of happening with NATO ?

    If it was by me.. i will had like 40% of the budget at least ,in defense ,to cover ARmy ,airforce,Navy and for the militarization of Space. and completely
    move out of all international sports ,cut funds to all pensioners that are not Russian citizens and significantly reduce the the expending in electricity and roads and paralize all housing projects and have everyone working in the defense industry building tanks or planes.

    But it is spending much more than 3%. Russia's military industry fraction of the GDP is grossly understated due to very low prices and
    lots of de facto barter transactions. I have posted on this many times. How can one justify $2 billion for a singly Soryuu diesel-electric sub
    from Japan and $2 billion (pre 2014 exchange rate) for six Project 636.3 subs from Russia. It does not matter whether one has
    AIP and the other does not. The AIP system does not jack up the cost of a sub by a factor of six. The 636.3 subs are world class and
    not junk. There are many such other cases.

    So the effective expenditure on the military is at least 10% of the official GDP and likely higher. The official GDP is understated since
    the proper accounting for the military sector is not done. PPP adjustments are biased to civilian sector prices so miss the Russian military
    industrial scale completely.

    You can name call all you want, it just shows your lack of IQ, but Putin has done a great job fooling NATO about Russia's true military
    potential. Back in 2004 it was basically common knowledge in Washington that Russia is a second rate regional power. Hence the
    surprise about Russian cruise missile strikes on jihadis in Syria. If he was spending 40% of the GDP, i.e. 200% of the actual government
    revenues, on the military he would be an moron. It would destroy the economy and likely feed massive waste and corruption while
    keeping NATO in a panic. Thus NATO has lost its window of opportunity to take out Russia. And every year the gap is spreading so
    that by 2030 NATO will be licking Russia's boots. The US ABM shield is a cheap violation of the INF and in now way gives Uncle Scumbag
    nuclear primacy. Russia properly bitches about the ABM to leverage US idiocy for its own natural security interests. The Washington
    hubris filled windbags have given Russia carte blanche to develop weapons systems that totally defeat the ABM.

    The Saramat has the capacity to basically deliver the MARVs via any trajectory around the whole planet. The USA can't place its
    ABM rockets at every longitude and latitude and it will not be effective at terminal stage warhead interception anyway.
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Kimppis on Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:44 pm

    I think someone already mentioned this, but there's absolutely no fucking way that diesel sub costs 2 billion dollars. And in that case Japan wouldn't be able to afford them. They're actually mass producing them and they've already finished 9. According to Google, those boats actually seem to cost something like 300-600 million USD.

    I also think you exaggerate the size of the Russia economy. PPP, or otherwise. 5 trillion total GDP for 145+ million would indicate a fully developed, more or less "Western" level GDP per capita. I don't think that's correct. I think the current, official PPP GDP is pretty accurate, which in itself is actually reasonably high already by global standards. It's probably true, atleast in certain categories, that the "real" military spending is closer to something like 5-6% of GDP, but not any higher than that. No way in hell are the price levels 5-6 times lower... anywhere (or maybe in nukes??? I don't understand how the US needs "trillions" to upgrade its arsenal and even then, the Russian nukes manage to somehow be 1. more numerous and 2. more modern...).

    Vann, very high military spending is bad for economic growth. Look at the Soviet Union. Russia (and China) have learned their lesson.

    First of all, Russia enjoys considerable geographical advantages against its potential enemies. How many NATO troops are there close to the Russian border? Few thousand or something? Russia would crush them. That is no Operation Barbarossa. Most NATO militaries are a joke, and the US is either unable to move all, or even most of its military to face Russia or it would atleast take a long time. As an example, the US is concentrating 60% of its Navy against China. Russian military is very strong close to its own borders, they are not trying to be the world's policeman.

    Secondly, Russia has the strongest nuclear arsenal in the world. The current budget is sensible. It ensues that the military gets modernized, without bankrupting the economy, in any way.
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    kvs

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:49 pm

    Kimppis wrote:I think someone already mentioned this, but there's absolutely no fucking way that diesel sub costs 2 billion dollars. And in that case Japan wouldn't be able to afford them. They're actually mass producing them and they've already finished 9. According to Google, those boats actually seem to cost something like 300-600 million USD.

    According to Wikicrappia you mean.

    I got my information from here:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-15/japanese-concerns-over-submarine-deal/5743022

    $20 billion for 10 boats, i.e. $2 billion per boat. My mistake I forgot it was Australian dollars.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/design/sub-standard-why-the-2000-we-are-each-spending-on-submarines-will-probably-be-a-terrible-waste/news-story/6922de6f6a72657c669fdc1a1248916f

    $50 billion Australian dollars, which is similar to Canadian dollars and not that much different from US dollars, for twelve boats.

    This is the real world and not Wikicrappia revisionist fantasy which you seem to swallow without question.


    I also think you exaggerate the size of the Russia economy. PPP, or otherwise. 5 trillion total GDP for 145+ million would indicate a fully developed, more or less "Western" level GDP per capita. I don't think that's correct.

    I have the western GDP per capita before my very eyes in the USA and Canada. There is no f*cking way that the citizens of these
    countries make $50,000 per year. Family incomes in Toronto (i.e. 3+ people) are about $70,000. In the hinterland they are much lower,
    just as is the case for Russia where Moscow and St. Petersburg have higher average wages than the rest of the country.

    So you are counting the extra-territorial part of the GDP as being relevant for the domestic standard of living. GDP is not
    the GNP and clearly the incomes don't reflect the per capita figures by a long shot. Russia does not have a significant extra-territorial
    GDP footprint so to you it looks poorer.


    I think the current, official PPP GDP is pretty accurate, which in itself is actually reasonably high already by global standards. It's probably true, atleast in certain categories, that the "real" military spending is closer to something like 5-6% of GDP, but not any higher than that. No way in hell are the price levels 5-6 times lower... anywhere (or maybe in nukes??? I don't understand how the US needs "trillions" to upgrade its arsenal and even then, the Russian nukes manage to somehow be 1. more numerous and 2. more modern...).

    10% is 3.3 times higher than 3% and not 6 times. Dial down the sneer.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:19 pm

    KVS Is right on the Canada part. Where I am, average wage is $42,000 per year, average family income is roughly $60,000. Reality is, prices do not reflect wages. In 1983 my father was able to purchase a house, a car, a TV and some luxuries on a single income. Now? Do not even dare to imagine me, where I make more than he did, do the same. Now it is getting worst.

    Let alone, debt per Canadian is to the point of almost no return. Average debt (including mortgage) is roughly $300,000 per Canadian. This figure was from about a couple of years ago before our economy started to implode.

    Wealth is relative, since economics isn't a science.
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Kimppis on Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:42 am

    The 2 billion figure just isn't believable at all. And the Wikipedia article has listed sources, one of them is an official report from Japanese Ministry of Defence, ffs. If those subs really were 2 billion USD per boat, Japan (or Australia!) wouldn't be able to afford them.

    The Australians must be talking about lifetime costs, or something. Certainly Russian boats are cheaper, but not by that much. I was talking about submarines, when I mentioned how Russian military products are not 6 times cheaper.

    I think GDP PPP figures are overall accurate. That way Russian GDP per capita is comparable to most other ex-Eastern Bloc states.

    Again, otherwise Russia would be a fully developed economy. That is obviously not true. I'm not saying that Russia is undeveloped either, but IMO, it's both one of the richest emerging economies and of the poorest developed economies at the same time, just like Poland, Romania, Baltics, Hungary, Kazakhstan...

    In no way is the Russian economy much larger than the German one. In per capita basis, Russia is poorer than fully developed "Western" countries (35K+), but considerably richer than the world average (that is what, slightly below 15K?), China (15K), or countries like Mexico and Brazil (15-20K), and quite comparable to countries like Malaysia and Chile.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:29 pm

    http://www.unz.com/article/assessing-russias-military-strength/

    An article which points to the epic fail in Washington in its dick-stroking dismissal of Russia.

    Note the $8 billion per boat price (estimated today and guaranteed to be higher at the end of
    the process) for the Columbia class submarines that are supposed to replace the Ohio class.
    So each US boat will cost the whole Borey program cost, i.e. an 8:1 price ratio. Do not even
    think of dismissing the Borey as junk. The Columbia class will not be some spaceship with
    warp drive.

    What a f*cking joke! Anyone still peddling the Wikicrappia drivel as realistic needs to buy a clue.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:41 pm

    This became known for me with the fact that a Kh-35U costs roughly $500,000 (less now after the exchange rate drop, maybe half that) while harpoon costs roughly $1.2 - 2M per missile.

    It is coming to the point where US military industrial complex over prices everything to justify some kind of wealth development and marketing. Reality is speculators causing this. You tell me F-35 is worth about $130+M per aircraft? Hell no.

    Russia can modernize the military at a massive fraction of the cost.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  par far on Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:03 pm

    kvs wrote:http://www.unz.com/article/assessing-russias-military-strength/

    An article which points to the epic fail in Washington in its dick-stroking dismissal of Russia.

    Note the $8 billion per boat price (estimated today and guaranteed to be higher at the end of
    the process) for the Columbia class submarines that are supposed to replace the Ohio class.
    So each US boat will cost the whole Borey program cost, i.e. an 8:1 price ratio.   Do not even
    think of dismissing the Borey as junk.   The Columbia class will not be some spaceship with
    warp drive.

    What a f*cking joke!   Anyone still peddling the Wikicrappia drivel as realistic needs to buy a clue.

    How does the Borey class compare to Columbia class?
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:05 am

    par far wrote:
    kvs wrote:http://www.unz.com/article/assessing-russias-military-strength/

    An article which points to the epic fail in Washington in its dick-stroking dismissal of Russia.

    Note the $8 billion per boat price (estimated today and guaranteed to be higher at the end of
    the process) for the Columbia class submarines that are supposed to replace the Ohio class.
    So each US boat will cost the whole Borey program cost, i.e. an 8:1 price ratio.   Do not even
    think of dismissing the Borey as junk.   The Columbia class will not be some spaceship with
    warp drive.

    What a f*cking joke!   Anyone still peddling the Wikicrappia drivel as realistic needs to buy a clue.

    How does the Borey class compare to Columbia class?

    It is the same class and they have almost the same size. The difference is that the Borey II (955A) will have 20 launch
    tubes for SLBMs instead of the 16 in the Borey I (955) and the yet to be built Columbia submarines. The Borey submarines
    have pump jets as do the Columbia class boats, but the latter appear to have more drive modes.
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    George1

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  George1 on Thu May 25, 2017 11:36 am

    Russia spends 11 times less than the United States on defense and one-third of China's defense spending, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201705241053929851-russia-defense-spending-us-china/


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 25, 2017 3:00 pm

    George1 wrote:
    Russia spends 11 times less than the United States on defense and one-third of China's defense spending, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201705241053929851-russia-defense-spending-us-china/

    All quoted in dollars.  There has been major changes in exchange rates.

    I think essence of the article is to give the indication that there is a price to performance ratio involved in Russia's defense spending/industry, which would definitely exist.  The other thing that Shoigu is pointing out is the need to keep a higher budget in military terms so they don't fall behind.

    Edit:

    As I expected:

    https://vpk.name/news/182375_shoigu_zayavil_chto_rashodyi_na_rossiiskuyu_armiyu_v_11_raz_nizhe_amerikanskih.html

    "With this level of funding we have managed to enhance the combat capabilities of the Armed forces by 14%, and to ensure strategic parity with NATO countries," - said the Minister.

    Austin

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Thu May 25, 2017 3:31 pm

    I would suppose PPP comes into picture here for Russia , What would $1 buy in US versus what they would get in Russia

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 25, 2017 3:37 pm

    Austin wrote:I would suppose PPP comes into picture here for Russia , What would $1 buy in US versus what they would get in Russia


    Biggest issue is just that, trying to figure it out.

    Previously, it was proposed that the sale of Su-35's to Russia stood at around $28M per aircraft. How much would an F-15 or an F-18 cost? Significantly more. Probably more than double.

    so in reality, Russia could double the number and that is close to what they are spending (theoretically of course).
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Kimppis on Fri May 26, 2017 12:11 am

    Well, currently Russia's PPP GDP per capita is almost 3 higher than its nominal GDP. So I guess you could say that the "real" military spending is something like $150 billion, certainly $120 billion (although China's real spending is also considerably higher than the official - dollar - figure, probably atleast $250 billion).

    On the other hand, countries like Saudi Arabia and Brazil are at the other extreme... I guess comparing military spending figures is valid when you make comparisons between Western-aligned countries (with fully professional militaries), but past that they are often extremely misleading.

    Heck, even look at my country, Finland. The Finnish military focuses on conventional conflicts, area defence (or whatever the English term is), unlike most of the other small Western countries. Military spending is very modest, probably a few billion USD, way below 2% of GDP.

    They can still afford 60 F-18 Hornets (major Western European powers only have maybe 4 times more fighters, and Brazil, with its $20 billion actually HAS LESS 4th generation fighters... somehow) and 200 Leopard 2s (almost as many as major Western European countries) + conscription.

    Of course, they don't have long-range air defence systems, Navy is very small and power projection capabilites are non-existent, but those major Western European powers would have very hard time to invade Finland, it would probably be impossible without long-term and costly build-up, atleast it would tie-up most of their forces, even if the geographical distances were shorter and even though those powers spend something like 20-30 times more on the military and while having over 10 times larger populations.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

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