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    Military budget of the Russian Federation

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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:39 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Massive?

    The top figure of $656 billion is about as much as the US spends each year on "defence". Over a 10 year period from 2011 to 2020 that works out at just over $65 billion per year.

    Not really huge.

    It is huge for Russia. We spend $13 billion a year currently on procurement, R&D, and maintenance all in that figure. To increase it to $65B a year would bankrupt the treasury.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:29 am

    Who knows what they will actually get.
    This is what they think they will need.
    If they get it that is fine... if unlikely.
    If they don't get it then deadlines and plans will be extended... deadlines set back etc.
    You have to plan for the future but you can't expect everything to go right and be perfect the way you expect them to be.
    Look at the period from the mid 2000s when oil prices were high and the Russian economy was good even less was actually spent on the military. Now money is getting spent and the results will come eventually.

    According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute database on military spending the US spends 661 billion a year, China spends 100 billion a year, France spends 63.9 billion a year, the UK spends 58.3 billion a year and the Russian Federation spends 53.3 billion per year.
    To take your figure of 13 billion and expand it to 60 means spending another 47 billion or so a year, so you would be spending slightly more than China.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:41 am

    GarryB , US massive funding is also due to the global deployment and global presense and US Military is many time greater then Russian Military and not to mention a screwdriver cost $50 in US Wink

    I do agree $65 Billion is massive by Russia standards if they can sustain those kind of funding over 10 years , they would probably make more than that by exporting military product developed from those funds.

    Although it is less than what the Russian Military has asked for which is $800 billion for complete rearmament of armed forces

    BTW can some one tell me if the money is the amount for Military Budget Per Year or just the amount for procurement/development of new system , R&D and maintenance

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:06 pm

    The more realistic figure for defence spending will be 3% of GDP, or $36 billion which is what we spend now. Taking it up to 4% may be possible for a total budget of $48 billion. With the promised increase in wages and social spending, that would leave an R&D, maintenance and procurement budget of $20B a year which is not enough to requip the armed forces.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:09 am

    I think the actual expenditure will depend on international relations and economic situation.
    If the economy improves in Russia then it will spend more without increasing GDP percentage simply because 3% of a larger economy is more money.
    The real sticking point is that as quality and performance of new material get close to the leading edge (or Bleeding edge because risks are higher) costs will have to go up and skilled workers will have to start getting better pay.
    I still think that the Russian industry should think about a two tier system with a more expensive and more capable system for domestic use, plus cheaper simpler models of the same thing with a high percentage of performance for less cost.
    The latter can be sold as export material and also used domestically in places where the state of the art stuff is neither needed nor wanted.
    A good example is the mini SMERCH. A much smaller lighter truck with 6 rocket tubes instead of 12 that is cheaper and more mobile and probably easier and cheaper to move around yet firing standard full power ammo.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:38 am

    I think $650 billion is a reasonable figure to spend on 10 years considering Economy is getting better and gas exports yealds more money.

    But i still think what ever they develop they need to be competitive in export market and should not be contend being number 2 in export but try to over take US , thats the only way they can spend more and keep the profit margin high.

    Is there a good prospect of export growing with China ?

    India seems to be a divided market with shrinking Russian export.

    How about new markets Saudi , UAE and Africa , Libya ?

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:22 pm

    Austin wrote:I think $650 billion is a reasonable figure to spend on 10 years considering Economy is getting better and gas exports yealds more money.


    That figure is going to be total military spending or $65 billion a year. It is not enough to requip the armed forces when you take into account social spending and wage increases.

    Is there a good prospect of export growing with China ?

    None... it is declining.

    India seems to be a divided market with shrinking Russian export.

    India is turning to the US.


    How about new markets Saudi , UAE and Africa , Libya ?

    Saudi still hasn't signed the deals. UAE is dominated by France and US, and Libya is buddy with EU now.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:26 pm

    I think you present a very pessimistic picture of the whole issue , next you will say Russia wont exist in next 10 years Wink

    Jokes apart their export market in value terms is increasing

    http://www.russiandefenseblog.org/?p=1396

    Orders for Russian arms and military hardware are worth about $45 billion, and Russian arms exports will exceed $9 billion in 2010, Alexander Fomin, the first deputy director of the Federal Military-Technical Cooperation Service, told Interfax-AVN.

    “The order portfolio is estimated at some $45 billion. The plan for 2010 exceeds last year’s figure and stands at slightly over $9 billion.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:37 pm

    Oh I have read yesterday Libya will be the first export customer for Su-35 and deal will be signed by this year end.

    Russia still maintains lead position in India and has many new joint projects.

    The issue with China is with IPR , either China gets civilised and do not reverse engineer then there will be no objection

    Saudi wants to purchase arms from Russia and delink West as its only source

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:10 pm

    Austin wrote:I think you present a very pessimistic picture of the whole issue , next you will say Russia wont exist in next 10 years Wink

    Jokes apart their export market in value terms is increasing

    http://www.russiandefenseblog.org/?p=1396

    Orders for Russian arms and military hardware are worth about $45 billion, and Russian arms exports will exceed $9 billion in 2010, Alexander Fomin, the first deputy director of the Federal Military-Technical Cooperation Service, told Interfax-AVN.

    “The order portfolio is estimated at some $45 billion. The plan for 2010 exceeds last year’s figure and stands at slightly over $9 billion.

    That is the backlog of the Russian portfolio. Suppliers are not able to meet the orders, that is not a good thing. Just a few years ago the backlog was only $20 billion which means we are hardly delivering. With the increase that will exist from domestic demand, the industry will be swamped. Orders will fall past due and we will be subject to fines.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:02 am

    Or, as the money filters to the actual factories they might start expanding production?
    When you want all new stuff then there is a period where it needs to be tested to ensure it is really what you want and it does what the label on the packet says. The next step is to guage potential market and scale production to meet those needs.

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    defense spending to rise by 60% 2013

    Post  NationalRus on Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:45 pm

    Russia's defense spending to rise by 60% by 2013

    Russian defense spending will increase by 60 percent, to more than 2 trillion rubles ($66.3 million) by 2013 from 1.264 trillion ($42 million) in 2010, a leading Russian business daily said on Friday.

    The Russian government made the relevant decision during a meeting on Thursday. The largest growth is planned for 2013, when the figure will rise by 0.5 trillion rubles ($16.6 million), Vedomosti reported.

    Konstantin Makiyenko from the Russian Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) told the paper that the government is likely to spend more on the Navy, as well as the aviation and space industries.

    The construction of advanced submarines, including Yasen and Borei class subs, and Bulava ballistic missiles, as well as the

    construction of three new Talwar class frigates, three Improved Kilo class subs and other vessels for the Russian Black Sea Fleet are likely to require the largest part of the planned spending, Makiyenko said.

    The budged allocation should also consider spending on the construction of the first two Mistral class amphibious assault ships under a Russian-French deal, a Russian military plant manager told Vedomosti. This may account to about $0.5 billion, he estimated.

    Russia is currently in talks with France on the purchase of two Mistral class helicopter carriers and the construction of two others under a French license.

    Besides this, Russia is planning to spend 80 billion rubles ($2.65 billion) on 60 Su-family fighter jets starting 2010, and buy 26 MiG-29K Fulcrum-D carrier-based fighter jets, with the expected contract estimated at about 25 billion rubles (more than $828 million), a military aircraft plant manager told the paper. The plans also include the purchase of 32 Su-34 Flanker fighter bombers under the 2008 contract (a single plane then cost more than 1.1 billion rubles ($36.4 million), he said.

    MOSCOW, July 30 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100730/160003543.html

    What? what the hell they are talking about, is this an print error, what 60% $66.3 million? do they mean BILLION??? im confused as hell

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:04 am

    You are right, their conversion is wrong.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:58 pm

    Nice Interview

    http://vpk.name/news/41396_k_oruzhiyu_pervyii_zamestitel_ministra_oboronyi_vladimir_popovkin_raskryil_planyi_pereosnasheniya_armii__polnyii_tekst_intervyu.html

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:20 am

    Russian defence expenditure is increasing substantially specially on CAPEX

    Russia to spend $725bn on arms

    "The government will spend 22.5 trillion ($725 billion) rubles in the state's arms program in the next ten years. It's an unprecedented sum in our recent history," Ivanov said.

    The bulk of the money -- $600 billion -- will be spent on buying arms and military hardware for the Defense Ministry.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has also called for improving the country's weaponry.

    "The lack behind the industrially developed nations' in labor efficiency, industrial engineering and quality control backfires on our military and technical cooperation. We have to take action," Medvedev said.

    "For two decades we have purchased and built nothing for our armed forces. This money is the minimum required to mount to meet the needs of Russian military," military expert Viktor Litovkin told Press TV correspondent.

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    Defense ministry submits $640 billion arms buy plan to government

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:07 pm


    Defense ministry submits $640 billion arms buy plan to government
    RIA Novosti

    12:46 08/12/2010

    MOSCOW, December 8 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's Defense Ministry has submitted a 20 trillion ruble ($640.7 billion) arms procurement spending plan for 2011-2020 to the government, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said on Wednesday.

    That sum is treble the amount for the existing 2007-2015 program, Ivanov said during a meeting of Russia's military and industry commission in Moscow.

    The program will be presented to President Dmitry Medvedev for approval before the end of the month.

    Funding for Russia's 2011 state arms procurement contract will total 1.5 trillion rubles ($48 billion), up 33% from the current level, Ivanov said.

    The 2011-2020 program includes the upgrade of up to 11% of military equipment annually and will allow Russia to increase the proportion of weaponry in its inventory classed as modern to 70% by 2020.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101208-rianovosti04.htm


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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:07 am

    Most of US revenues comes from internal market and just 15 % is external or exports

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/05/doing-defence-with-uncle-sam.html

    The most striking characteristic of the US defence industry is its primarily inward focus. About 85-90% of the combined revenue of US defence corporations accrues from sales to the US army, navy, air force, marine corps and coast guard; just 10-15% of their revenue comes from overseas. In contrast, non-US defence contractors --- including those in Russia, Europe, Canada, Brazil, Korea and Singapore --- need significant overseas business to cover their development costs. But the volume of sales to the US military amortises the development costs and renders overseas buyers like India peripheral in terms of market leverage.

    So Russia if it has to support its internal consumption has to order product for its own internal consumption on a very big scale and export can be something like an icing in the cake.

    They are planning to order 600 New aircraft for 2011-2020 including transport , I just hope they order Su-35,Mig-35 , Su-34 and Su-25 is good numbers , 600 is still a small number , just translates to 60 new aircraft per year.

    once the internal consumption rises it can just make exports more cheaper and attractive option.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:51 am

    Russias internal military budget will never be similar to Americas military budget.

    Russia can licence produce military technology where it finds gaps, but the act of licence producing material fills that gap domestically and sets the foundation for further development, so that they will not become dependant on foreign companies for the future.

    The point is however in many fields they are not behind at all and in some areas they are ahead.

    There are many areas where Russia will not be the leader no matter what it does because such technology is not for sale, also the difference in performance in practical terms for many items is simply not worth the expense or the effort of licence production.

    The focus should be on the protection of Russian personnel first, followed by other parameters like the ability to do the job.

    A good example would be the Tu-22MR over Georgia... it was clearly unable to do its job... is the solution a properly fitted out Su-34MR, or would an upgrade of the Tu-22MR do the job better.
    It could be a case of custom designed UAVs being the best choice... but at the end of the day if the Tu-22MR was shot down and failed to do the job it was assigned, the replacement should not be focussed on making it so that when it is shot down no humans are lost, the focus should be on getting the job done... even the best UAV might have been shot down too... which means the job failed.
    An upgraded Tu-22MR that manages to do the job is much better than send UAVs up and having them shot down one after the other.
    A UAV will be cheaper than a Tu-22MR, but not by a large margin because it will need many of the same sensors to do the same job, and if it keeps getting shot down before it can complete its mission then it is not that much better than the Tu-22MR it is supposed to replace... except the lack of loss of personnel.
    What I am saying is that if both fail and the job is not completed then not sending anything is not really an option because to just charge into the battle space blind would lead to serious losses on the ground.
    The risk of pilots is not without a reason... it is to save lives during the ground action.
    Using UAVs to save pilots makes sense, but to save pilots and end up losing an army is not a good thing.

    Another point is that a focus on all new stuff is good, but good enough is also good... but much cheaper.
    New for the sake of new is an expensive waste.
    After spending on new you need to continue to spend on your investment with maintenance and regular upgrades with new equipment too.

    In this case what I am saying is that brand new super dooper things are good, but if you are not going to upgrade existing stuff then it is going to get very expensive having to replace older stuff with expensive brand new stuff all the time.

    It would be too expensive to replace all Mig-29s with Mig-35s and all Su-27s with Su-35s.
    Not only are Mig-29SMTs and Su-27SMs needed for numbers but all the aircraft... Mig-29SMT, Su-27SM, Mig-35, and Su-35 will all need upgrades and overhauls during service too.

    A Tu-22MR with a proper upgrade might actually do the job better than a UAV. The focus should be on tools that get the job done rather than a rush to get the shiniest new toys... only to find in actual use they don't get the job done either because they keep getting shot down all the time.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:14 pm

    I dont expect Russian budget to be equal to US budget , I would say for the same aircraft and capability Russian aircraft would end up being 25 -30 % cheaper.

    What they need to make sure that the money spent for SAP 2011-2020 are very well utilised and do not end up in the pockets of few.

    The SAP 2005-2015 program also ended up in a disaster with it achieving much less then targetted for , Corruption and Inefficiency eats up good portion of state money spent on defense , hence they need to be very careful that history does not repeat itself.

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    Russian budget

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:22 am

    What they need to make sure that the money spent for SAP 2011-2020 are
    very well utilised and do not end up in the pockets of few.

    Would like to see those who end up with the money in pocket use it to further develop and improve the stuff that put the money in the pocket in the first place.

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    Russia military budget

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:25 pm

    On interfax military today posted article (wich I can not open)

    "Russian national defense spending to grow 25.8% in 2013 - Finance Ministry"

    Meaning in 2013 it should be something like 90bin$ and in 2014 for the first time surpass magical number 100 and should be something like 110 bin $.

    This 2012 was the last year of "slow" Russian defense budget rise.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:33 pm

    I am not so sure about that. If we divide the total number of the SAP 2020 by the years, there is no way a figure of over 110 billion (and rising, since AFAIK it is not supposed to go down later in the decade?) will fit into the program for one year.


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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:44 pm

    Russia’s defense spending grows to third largest in the world

    Russia has overtaken both Britain and France to become the world’s third-largest defense spender, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute announced in a report on Tuesday.

    Russia’s defense spending increased by 9.3 percent in 2011 to reach a total of $71.9 billion, or 3.9 percent of the nation’s GDP, the institute reported.



    Big spenders cut budgets

    Six of the world’s biggest military spenders – Brazil, France, Germany, India, Britain and the United States – all cut their arms budgets. The United States cut their expenditures for the first time since 1998, bring down defense spending by 1.2 percent to $711 billion (4.7 percent of the U.S. GDP) – nearly 10 times Russia’s budget. The analysts put the reduced spending down to the need for deficit reduction among the big defense spenders. China’s defense budget, however, increased by 6.7 percent to reach double that of Russia’s at $143 billion, although it was only estimated at 2 percent of the nation’s GDP.



    Replacing Soviet-era equipment

    The institute said that Russia planned further increases in military spending, primarily on equipment, research and development plus support for the military-industrial complex, “with plans to replace the majority of Russia’s mostly Soviet-era military equipment with modern weaponry by 2020.”

    “However, many analysts are doubtful as to whether the industry will be able to deliver on such ambitious plans after decades of stagnation following the collapse of the Soviet Union,” wrote the institute in its report.

    Besides lacking the production facilities to make use of the additional funding, Russia’s defense industry faces considerable problems with corruption, with the head of main military prosecutor’s office, Sergei Fridinsky, saying in January that there was a “cosmic level” of embezzlement in the military. Since January 2011, there have been 250 cases of bribery, and the damage from corruption was calculated at more than 3 billion rubles. One fraud case saw the state lose 700 million rubles, and 20 million rubles were found in the flat of one of the suspects, who said he did not know how to spend it.

    http://www.themoscownews.com/russia/20120417/189640006.html

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:36 pm

    In the State Duma asked to provide the budget for the years 2014-2016 more money on defense


    The structure of expenditure in the budget for the years 2014-2016 do not take into account all the requirements of the law and the decision of the management of the country on the content of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the social protection of servicemen. This was today told reporters the head of the Duma Committee on Defense Vladimir Komoedov / Communist /.

    He commented on the conclusion of the committee submitted to the House by the government draft federal budget for 2014 and the planning period of 2015 and 2016. In particular, the defense committee recommended the State Duma to adopt the draft of the main document of the country in the first reading, but considers it necessary in its preparation for the second reading to take into account the allocation of additional budget appropriations for a number of directions.

    Thus, according to the "National Defense" in 2014, "provided budget funds to address the key issues of the Armed Forces," said Komoedov. "Including the further upgrading to new models of weapons, military and special equipment, social protection of servicemen and other tasks," - he explained.

    Budget allocations for the "National Defense" on the years 2014-2016 are provided in amounts of about 2.5 trillion, 3 trillion and 3.4 trillion rubles, respectively. The growth of budget compared to the previous year, provided by 18.4%, 21.6% and 11.6% respectively in nominal terms.

    In the years 2014-2016 for the payment of money allowances to servicemen provided 372.1 billion rubles and 417.7 billion rubles and 454.0 billion rubles / in 2013 - 341.9 billion rubles / payroll civilian personnel - 154.1 billion rubles , 159.9 billion rubles and 159.9 billion rubles, respectively.

    At the same time, the Defence Committee notes that the draft budget appropriations for salary increases for military posts and salaries for servicemen, military personnel are not provided. According to the parliamentarians, "in order to implement the provisions of the said Act and to avoid infringing on the rights guaranteed to them by the military government indexation allowance is necessary to provide additional budgetary allocations for such indexing."

    For payment and storage of special fuel and lubricants in 2014 provided 59.7 billion rubles, in 2015 - 62.9 billion rubles, in 2016 - 62.9 billion rubles.

    In the event that appropriations be limited to these figures, the Ministry of Defense "will be forced to reduce the amount of oil purchased for 422 thousand tons, and reduce the number of actions performed combat training at 20-30%, including flight crews on the fly - by 20%, to train engineers drivers of armored vehicles - 30%, driver training vehicles - 25%, the number of ships involved in conducting training exercises in the world's oceans - by 40%.

    Thus, the defense committee believes that the need for budgetary allocations for the payment of special fuels and lubricants under the SDO for the years 2014-2016 for the Russian Armed Forces is 69.0 billion, 72.0 billion and 73.9 billion rubles, respectively.

    Also, deputies believe, due to the increased intensity of tasks as part of the protection of Russia's maritime and counter piracy / from the experience of 2013 / must also provide - beyond the GOZ - about 2.1 billion rubles, and only provide for these purposes about 3 mldr rubles / 2014 stands at 969.8 million rubles /.

    In addition, the Committee noted that the amount of funding provided for the maintenance and operation of infrastructure does not allow for the maintenance of facilities in good condition and provide them with the necessary public services. "In this connection, an increase in accounts payable to suppliers of heating, hot and cold water supply, the provision of electricity at the municipal and regional level," - warn MPs.
    So today 1 Trillion Roubles is ~ $30.833 billion , Based on this calculation Defence Budget for Russian Armed Forces from 2014-2016 is

    2014 --> 2.5 Trillion Roubles ----> $ 77 Billion
    2015 ---> 3 Trillion Roubles ----> $ 92 Billion
    2016 ---> 3.4 Trillion Roubles ----> $ 104 Billion

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:16 pm

    That's a lot of fucking money

    I just hope that it brings concrete benefits; modernisation of high-tech industry, more orders for materials/metals/electronics/software, good salaries & conditions for military professionals, training of specialists, more export orders & JVs and of course enough to fulfill the task of protecting Russia and Russian interests. No need to spend money on extra toys that Russia is unlikely to need (and if it will; there may be other things capable of fulfilling the task)

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