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    Military budget of the Russian Federation

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:49 am

    kvs wrote:Even in rubles, the Russian military budget is not reflecting the scale of this complex in Russia.   The price structure is almost absurdly
    small compared to any of the western countries.   For example, the Project 636.3 diesel-electric submarines had a price of about
    $330 million dollars before devaluation and around $190 million today.   This is less than 10% of the price of similar boats from the west.
    But there are also large scale non-market and hence non-priced processes in the Russian military-industrial complex (MIC).   It's a sort of
    cultural thing, companies engage in activity and exchange goods and services without shuffling vast amounts of money around.
    You can call it a Soviet hold-over, I can call it efficiency (as in better use of resources with less bureaucracy).  

    The Russian GDP is supposed to be about 71 trillion rubles in 2015.   A 3 trillion budget amounts to 4% of the GDP, this is
    comparable to that of the USA.   But the Russian economy is supposedly six times smaller in terms of PPP GDP.    Does anyone
    believe that Russian military capacity is 1/6 that of the USA?   That is simply laughable.  

    Add in, that the price of a Armata tank is roughly $3.4M per tank while tanks like Leopard II are far more expensive.  Or Su-30SM is roughly $30M (or less since Su-35 is roughly $31M per aircraft) per aircraft while equivalent US or European one is in the $50+ Million.

    cracker
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  cracker on Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:05 am

    Can someone quickly calculate a realistic estimate of the budget in $$ (value of 1$=30rub typical "stable" period in the 2000s)?

    I want that this number includes every thing related to Russian defense and interior security, like police, defense facilities, secret services, modernisation projets, etc... not only what "seems" to be the basic "military" budget.

    We all know 80-90b$ is BOLLOCKS. I don't mean the money exchange rate comparison in a void, but i mean, the REAL effective budget if everything is compared to another country (like USA 600b$).... What I want to see (as a result) is rather how would Russian actual budget be in the USA, i think, like 250 to 300b$ equivalency. And remember that US budget is eaten by worldwide bases, the maintaining costs (utterly ridiculously high) of the dozen nuclear carriers, and the terrible lobbying of us MIC companies.

    If you look other countries with 50-60-80b$ budgets, they don't even have 1/10th of the russian capacities.... Saudi???? WTF these morons are paying 1 million $ per rifle or what??... Hell, even china with its "2x greater" budget on paper, isn't remotely close to the total capacities of russia. Anyone dares challenge this point? Chinese military is inferior in EVERY category possible to russian military, except maybe for the SURFACE vessels of the navy, and of course, the total number of active men in service (which means shit). For fu** sake, china isn't even issuing body armor to its troops, USSR did it since the 1970s.

    -Russia has the most sophisticated nuclear arsenal and is buying new systems. They also have the biggest numbers active.
    -Russia has a massive navy especially the submarines, second only to the US navy, but with strike/defense capacities nearly comparable to US navy (not talking deployment of airforces and troops, only the submarines), some of russian submarines are simply the most sophisticated ever devised.
    -Russia has a massive ground army with so many redundancy in firepower, it's not even funny. Russian army's artillery and AA defenses + ballistic missile forces (non nuclear) are simply out of reach even of US army in terms of numbers and quality.
    -Russia has countless facilities, sophisticated ones, operation centers, etc... many modern buildings have been made in last decade.
    -Russia has a strong "internal army" and militarised police, with big means. They have a lot of security services of various kinds.
    -Russia has a complex hierarchy of military research and production centers, probably second to none (US system is different and not really comparable), inherited from soviet times but also modernised /transformed by current russia modernisation program.
    -Russia has the 2nd most powerful airforce and quite frankly no other country (on its own) other than USA can touch RUAF. Even if it's a pathetic dwarfed version of the USSR air force, modern RUAF is still extremely strong and varied.

    Now tell please, how can CLOWNS make a f********** list of assending bugets$$ by country and put saudi arabia on the same f******* level as RUSSIA??? for f*** sake?

    quite simply, this type of ranking has no sense. "oh look! Russia is so weak! we have a budget roughly 80% of hers, and we are small country! Russia so weak!"

    Russia buys russian weapons, and functions almost 100% internally for military questions. Once the nutheads understand that, they'll maybe start to be less clownish. Fake $ value / equivalents have 0 meaning when it comes to Russian military budget and real military capacities.

    When your average american clown says "look, we have 8 times the budget of russia, we are 8 times stronger", he basically fools himself to no point.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:22 am

    It would be easy if we knew how much Russia paid for their Su-30's for example or their upgrades to MiG-29's, MiG-31's, Su-24's, etc.

    Since there is very little word on how much Russia pays for, we hardly know.  But judging by the large aquisitions of planes like Su-30SM (plans to purchase an additional 75) and Su-35's gives us the indication they are fairly cheap products (Su-35 is roughly $31M per aircraft judging by the fact Russia paid $1.5B for 48 aircrafts, which is a darn good price for the aircraft).  Since like Franco said all their orders are in Rubles, it makes it somewhat easier to guess.

    But it is true Russia can purchase a lot more with less money in terms of modern military equipment.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:06 am

    One other factor to consider that the majority of the Russian MIC is either publically-owned or the State is a major share-holder with veto powers within the company board-rooms.  Russian government can mandate that her MIC companies put the interests of the nation first, and profits second.  State owned companies invariably return their profits back to the public purse in any case, so it rather pointless to pursue profit as the penultimate goal, as profit/cost is a zero sum game in such an arrangement.

    The EU and US MIC however is 100% privatised and its companies place profit making as their No 1 concern, trumping everything including the national good and the maintenance of a well-paid skilled labour force (that delivers a solid tax base to the national government).  Profits are maximized at the expense of the public purse, and then locked away in private cash stashes, becoming unavailable for future needs of the state (thereby requiring the US gov to print more money to replace that now lost to private hoarding).

    In a nutshell, money in Russia is a renewable resource as the Russian gov can keep the money fluid and recycled back into the nations productive economy.  In the West, the constant flow of newly created money is skimmed off and locked away as collateral in the debt-based system and is no longer available for productive purposes.  Which system is more robust in the long term?  My money is on the Russians...

    franco
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  franco on Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:01 pm

    Some budget comparisons for 2014-2016;
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1560197.html

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:35 am

    Financing of Russian uniformed agencies to increase by $810 mln in 2016
    Business & Economy
    November 03, 17:00 UTC+3
    Overall, the spending planned for security and law enforcement in Russia equals 2.024 trillion rubles ($31.8 billion)

    http://tass.ru/en/economy/833785

    MOSCOW, November 3. /TASS/. The financing of Russia’s uniformed agencies will grow by 26 billion rubles ($410 million), according to a draft resolution the State Duma Security and Anticorruption Committee has issued in response to the 2016 draft budget. The committee is reviewing the main financial document of the nation, with the interested governmental bodies taking part in the process.

    Overall, the spending planned for security and law enforcement equals 2.024 trillion rubles ($31.8 billion).

    A draft federal budget was published in the state Duma’s electronic database on October 24. Under the draft, the 2016 defense spending was set at 3,145.090 billion rubles ($49.5 billion), i.e. there is a 25.5-billion-ruble ($400-million) increase over 2015.

    At the same time, the financing of the Public Order and Anti-Crime Program was set by the draft budget at about 816 billion rubles ($12.8 billion) — an approximately 15-billion-ruble (about 2%) reduction compared with 2015.

    Relative to the GDP, the defense spending alone is 4% in 2016. Its share of the overall federal budget will diminish to 19.6% compared with 2015 (20.2%).

    Russia’s federal budget income in 2016 is planned to be 13.577 trillion rubles ($213 billion) and expenditures — 15.761 trillion rubles ($248 billion), according to the draft law worked out by the Finance Ministry and published on the Federal Website for Draft Laws and Regulations.

    The budget includes the estimated GDP standing at 78.673 trillion rubles ($1.24 trillion) and an inflation rate within 6.4%.

    max steel
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  max steel on Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:38 pm

    Cracker you need to go through this forum thoroughly to gain knowledge about budgets. Russia+China is spending on PPP as much or more than USA, that is, Russia/China get much more for their money. USA would have to double their spending in order to catch up with Russia/China (in terms of development and production of new weapons). Also to note that a big portion of USA military spending goes on maintaining their troops that are heavily placed accross the globe and on consultants, which to a big extent is what would in other parts of the world be called corruption.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Notio on Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:10 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Essentially, what I am getting out of this is that the National Defense Budget is over 3T Rubles ($49B USD) and that out of that $49B, $34B of it is going to the military (paying soldiers, maintenance, training, benefits, etc etc etc) and the rest through things like FSB, Nuclear weapons, other special operative groups, possibly weapons procurements, etc.  The wording makes it sound like something else but essentialy defense budget is $49B (or $90/some odd B in old exchange rate).  But defense means multitude of things and well, I imagine the national police units like Omon fall under the budget.

    FSB, OMON etc. get their money through National security and law-enforcement budget, which is also very substantial. For example in 2012 national defence and national security & L-E budgets were basically the same size (about 1800 billion rubles each). As Austin's article shows the national defence budget has since grown a lot more than NS&LE as the military modernisation program has gone into high gear.

    According to Janes Russian defence budget for 2015 is 3117 billion rubles. Comparing it to the 2012 budget with 2012 exhange rate (about 30RUB/1USD) shows just how dramatic the increase has been. 2012 budget was ~60 billion dollars, 2015 budget is 104 billion dollars with the same rate. At the same time the NS&LE budget increased from ~60 to 67 billion.

    http://www.janes.com/article/55138/russia-reduces-planned-cuts-to-2016-defence-budget

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:19 pm

    +1 to you. Thanks for the explanation. I didnt know that the budget for police and such was separate or even that huge! Just goes to show how much Russia spends on security.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:10 am

    If the PPP GDP of Russia is 300% of the nominal dollar GDP then I would argue that the military industrial complex in PPP
    terms is at least 1000% of the nominal dollar value. The PPP evaluation is totally skewed to the consumer/civilian economy
    so the 300% adjustment cannot be applied to the military economy.

    So in proper PPP terms, the Russian military industrial complex is $490 billion per year which is very close to the USA
    military budget. But as I posted before the equipment cost is misleading since there is a very large amount of non-monetized
    activity. This cannot be dismissed it is the very reason that Russia's military industry survived the 1990s and early 2000s.
    It is annoying how this epic achievement is ignored and we have various yaps going on about nominal expenditures as if
    reality is isomorphic to money exchange. In the physical realm called reality Russia is as large as the USA in terms of
    military industrial activity and capacity. In terms of sophistication it is not far behind like the western media consumer
    lemmings would like to believe. We see some of this in Syria where the EW effectiveness of Russian forces is impressive.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:18 am

    I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:06 am

    sepheronx wrote:I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

    I totally disagree. The 300% is a weighted mean of different price scales. So you can't even apply it to every part of the civilian sector. Some
    prices are the same or higher than in the USA and some prices are much lower. I cited an example of big ticket price military hardware
    being 10 times cheaper. So my 1000% is conservative. It is also consistent with empirical observations.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  cracker on Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:53 am

    we can agree that there is a major gap in US-Rus budget where US can't be challenged by Russia: Navy(read the freaking flleet of destroyers and nuclear supercarriers)+USMC and military infrastructures (bases) around the world. And US airforce 3 services combined is simply unchallenged in its number and quality (quality military accademies and training+quality planes (mostly)+quality ammunitions+ all that in seemingly infinite numbers).

    I think Rus ground forces are *vastly* superior to US, and both have roughly parity on nuclear deterrent.

    Russia is undefeatable on its soil, but its force projection is ridiculous if compared to US. But, the good news is: Russia never pretended to compete with US on that aspect of the military. US needs it because of its geographical isolation, has always been this way since slightly before WW2 and especially after. US emphasis on naval and air assets is showing, and nobody can compete with them.

    So the US budget is largely swallowed by this silly (yet necessary if you subscribe to US pov) huge navy (not a single county in the world has the equivalent of 1 (a single one) nimitz supercarrier, and US operates at all times about a dozen of those or the newer class (george bush?)...) And if this wasn't enough, the USMC in itself is larger and more powerful than MOST armies on this planet, with a fleet of small carriers/amphibious ships that in itself dwarfs all combined european naval force projection.

    Then it is swallowed by the countless bases that cost a shitload to maintain and operate along with personnel (US miliary personnel is graciously paid, also overall a big part of the budget litterally disappearing in the nothingness, not buying technology or stockpiling weapons)


    To finish the airforce itself is a blackhole of money, and again, this is n°1 priority for US, understandably.

    Russia has nothing similar to spend each year, so its budget is used in a very different manner, not on worldwide striking capacity and world policing, but on true inside-the borders defense.

    Top euro countries with $$ budget "close" to russia are not even capable to fully operate 200 tanks (france, germany, UK).... Russia has at least 2000 tanks active at any time.... Just one example of totally uncomparable paper data that the common fellow cannot grasp and will continue to bark his "russia weak" bullshit.

    From what i said right there and what KVS said, i'd say russia's direct converted US-comparable budget is not 490 but maybe closer to 250-300 billions, because you have to remove the 3 USA's specific critical spendings i've mentionned that are mostly unknown to Russia. Yes Russia has a strong navy and airforce nonetheless, but you see what i mean.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Kimppis on Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:10 am

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

    I totally disagree.  The 300% is a weighted mean of different price scales.  So you can't even apply it to every part of the civilian sector.  Some
    prices are the same or higher than in the USA and some prices are much lower.   I cited an example of big ticket price military hardware
    being 10 times cheaper.  So my 1000% is conservative.  It is also consistent with empirical observations.

    We all seem to agree that the Russian military budget in nominal dollars doesn't tell you anything and is not comparable to western countries, to the US in particular. But KVS, if according to you, Russian military budget "should" be 1000% higher or whatever, how do you explain the following: US has 10-11 supercarriers, 10 smaller ones, around 90 destroyers and cruisers, 60 nuclear submarines, around 3000 fighter aircraft and insane amount of transport helicopters and aircraft and other power projection assets, foreign military bases, numerous failed projects that cost billions of dollars, each.... (Well, they don't have a similar IADS system, or diesel submarines, or smaller vessels: frigates and corvettes, but those are asymmetrical capabilities, cheaper, defensive, that is their whole point.) And as Cracked mentioned, their "maintenance" costs are also absolutely massive. Really, something like 3 times more, or 150 billion looks about right to me.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:30 am

    Kimppis wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

    I totally disagree.  The 300% is a weighted mean of different price scales.  So you can't even apply it to every part of the civilian sector.  Some
    prices are the same or higher than in the USA and some prices are much lower.   I cited an example of big ticket price military hardware
    being 10 times cheaper.  So my 1000% is conservative.  It is also consistent with empirical observations.

    We all seem to agree that the Russian military budget in nominal dollars doesn't tell you anything and is not comparable to western countries, to the US in particular. But KVS, if according to you, Russian military budget "should" be 1000% higher or whatever, how do you explain the following: US has 10-11 supercarriers, 10 smaller ones, around 90 destroyers and cruisers, 60 nuclear submarines, around 3000 fighter aircraft and insane amount of transport helicopters and aircraft and other power projection assets, foreign military bases, numerous failed projects that cost billions of dollars, each.... (Well, they don't have a similar IADS system, or diesel submarines, or smaller vessels: frigates and corvettes, but those are asymmetrical capabilities, cheaper, defensive, that is their whole point.) And as Cracked mentioned, their "maintenance" costs are also absolutely massive. Really, something like 3 times more, or 150 billion looks about right to me.

    I was giving you what PPP means. You take the nominal prices in country X and scale them to reference country Y. Russian Project 636.3 submarines cost
    less than $200 million at nominal prices but equivalent products from Japan and NATO countries are $2 billion each. And many other Russian military
    industry prices are roughly 10 times cheaper than in the reference country USA. Hence a 1000% PPP adjustment for this part of Russia's GDP.

    You are confusing legacy accumulation with annual expenditures. The equipment list you gave me has nothing to do with the annual military budget
    of the USA being so much greater than that of Russia. The USA does not manufacture a dozen aircraft carriers every year. Recall that Russia experienced
    one of the worst depressions in history where it lost 50% of its GDP. During this era a lot of Soviet military equipment (e.g. aircraft carriers) was left to
    rot and basically lost. If the USA underwent a similar depression and left its fleets to rot it would have a much smaller list to boast about today. So
    your point has no relevance to my PPP estimate.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:34 am

    kvs wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I think it is safer to just assume that it is still the 300% difference.  Once we go through larger numbers it sounds more silly imo.  At this point, I think Russia is spending a healthy sum on military procurement and development.  But it still seems there is plenty of work required, especially on the electronics front (still curious as to why there hasn't been more recent updates on AESA technology and only just tests of N036 and no word on Zhuk-A).

    I totally disagree.  The 300% is a weighted mean of different price scales.  So you can't even apply it to every part of the civilian sector.  Some
    prices are the same or higher than in the USA and some prices are much lower.   I cited an example of big ticket price military hardware
    being 10 times cheaper.  So my 1000% is conservative.  It is also consistent with empirical observations.

    We all seem to agree that the Russian military budget in nominal dollars doesn't tell you anything and is not comparable to western countries, to the US in particular. But KVS, if according to you, Russian military budget "should" be 1000% higher or whatever, how do you explain the following: US has 10-11 supercarriers, 10 smaller ones, around 90 destroyers and cruisers, 60 nuclear submarines, around 3000 fighter aircraft and insane amount of transport helicopters and aircraft and other power projection assets, foreign military bases, numerous failed projects that cost billions of dollars, each.... (Well, they don't have a similar IADS system, or diesel submarines, or smaller vessels: frigates and corvettes, but those are asymmetrical capabilities, cheaper, defensive, that is their whole point.) And as Cracked mentioned, their "maintenance" costs are also absolutely massive. Really, something like 3 times more, or 150 billion looks about right to me.

    I was giving you what PPP means.  You take the nominal prices in country X and scale them to reference country Y.   Russian Project 636.3 submarines cost
    less than $200 million at nominal prices but equivalent products from Japan and NATO countries are $2 billion each.   And many other Russian military
    industry prices are roughly 10 times cheaper than in the reference country USA.   Hence a 1000% PPP adjustment for this part of Russia's GDP.

    You are confusing legacy accumulation with annual expenditures.   The equipment list you gave me has nothing to do with the annual military budget
    of the USA being so much greater than that of Russia.  The USA does not manufacture a dozen aircraft carriers every year.   Recall that Russia experienced
    one of the worst depressions in history where it lost 50% of its GDP.  During this era a lot of Soviet military equipment (e.g. aircraft carriers) was left to
    rot and basically lost.   If the USA underwent a similar depression and left its fleets to rot it would have a much smaller list to boast about today.  So
    your point has no relevance to my PPP estimate.    

    The Japanese Soryu class doesn't actually appear to cost that much; it's just that Australia seems to have been massively ripped-off on that deal (or there were some major kickbacks/corruption involved).
    Japan offered to sell the same vessel to the Philippines - only for about $500 mil each or so. So its true price is likely to be only x2-2.5 the amount of the Improved Kilo. And keep in mind that it's a next-gen vessel; closer to the Lada than the Improved Kilo in tech/capabilities. By Western standards it's actually great value for money.

    A better example on relative submarine costs can be found in this article though; http://thediplomat.com/2015/03/putins-red-october-russias-deadliest-new-submarine/
    According to naval-technology.com, the  total cost of the first Borei-class SSBN was $713 million, including the $280m research and development effort. In comparison, the cost of a U.S. Ohio-class SSBN was around $2 billion per vessel.

    So here the difference is very pronounced; the Russian equivalent (which is also newer) costs 1/5 to 1/4 the amount that the US sub does, when initial R&D costs are excluded.

    Now in terms of operational costs, the difference is pretty large too.

    Russia's Syrian campaign has; in addition to the planes and supporting personnel, a huge marine contingent there, a large naval task force parked off-shore, and even a small helicopter gunship task-force. At least one of the precision weaponry manufacturers in Russia are currently producing 24-hours in 3 shifts, in order to keep up with demand. Yet the current cost per day is reportedly only $2.3 - 4 million http://country.eiu.com/article.aspx?articleid=573639041&Country=Russia&topic=Politics&subtopic=Forecast&subsubtopic=International+relations

    Compare this to the American-led campaign, of which their part of it costs $8 million (http://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/0814_Inherent-Resolve); despite operating from established airbases in Turkey, no need for a supporting fleet or personnel and equipment to guard the perimeter, and flying 1/8th the amount of average sorties per day than the Russian campaign is.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  max steel on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:27 pm

    cracker wrote:we can agree that there is a major gap in US-Rus budget where US can't be challenged by Russia: Navy(read the freaking flleet of destroyers and nuclear supercarriers)+USMC and military infrastructures (bases) around the world. And US airforce 3 services combined is simply unchallenged in its number and quality (quality military accademies and training+quality planes (mostly)+quality ammunitions+ all that in seemingly infinite numbers).

    I think Rus ground forces are *vastly* superior to US, and both have roughly parity on nuclear deterrent.

    Russia is undefeatable on its soil, but its force projection is ridiculous if compared to US. But, the good news is: Russia never pretended to compete with US on that aspect of the military. US needs it because of its geographical isolation, has always been this way since slightly before WW2 and especially after. US emphasis on naval and air assets is showing, and nobody can compete with them.

    So the US budget is largely swallowed by this silly (yet necessary if you subscribe to US pov) huge navy (not a single county in the world has the equivalent of 1 (a single one) nimitz supercarrier, and US operates at all times about a dozen of those or the newer class (george bush?)...) And if this wasn't enough, the USMC in itself is larger and more powerful than MOST armies on this planet, with a fleet of small carriers/amphibious ships that in itself dwarfs all combined european naval force projection.

    Then it is swallowed by the countless bases that cost a shitload to maintain and operate along with personnel (US miliary personnel is graciously paid, also overall a big part of the budget litterally disappearing in the nothingness, not buying technology or stockpiling weapons)


    To finish the airforce itself is a blackhole of money, and again, this is n°1 priority for US, understandably.

    Russia has nothing similar to spend each year, so its budget is used in a very different manner, not on worldwide striking capacity and world policing, but on true inside-the borders defense.

    Top euro countries with $$ budget "close" to russia are not even capable to fully operate 200 tanks (france, germany, UK).... Russia has at least 2000 tanks active at any time.... Just one example of totally uncomparable paper data that the common fellow cannot grasp and will continue to bark his "russia weak" bullshit.

    From what i said right there and what KVS said, i'd say russia's direct converted US-comparable budget is not 490 but maybe closer to 250-300 billions, because you have to remove the 3 USA's specific critical spendings i've mentionned that are mostly unknown to Russia. Yes Russia has a strong navy and airforce nonetheless, but you see what i mean.



    Russia doesn't need power projection shouting My Way or Bombs your way at all. Soviet Navy/Russian Navy has been a global sea denial force. Bith Russia and US have different doctrine. Rest your preconceived notions on USMC or any other US military branch being topmost in quality is a pure sham, I've some sources but I never shared it here because people don't take much interest in US discussions. US due to its geographical position needs strong Navy and Aircraft Carriers are the first strike targets in a war against potent enemy.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:56 pm

    Ex-minister says Russia will cut defense budget in 2-3 years


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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Austin on Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:11 am

    Russia to Cut 2016 Military Spending By 5%

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160219/1035016486/russia-military-spending.html#ixzz40bTOwkCb

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The 2016 military spending in the country was expected to amount to 3.14 trillion rubles (over $41 billion at the current exchange rate) or 4 percent of GDP. A 5-percent cut amounts to some 160 billion rubles.

    The Russian economy, highly dependent on energy exports, is experiencing a slowdown caused by a sharp decline in global oil prices and, to a lesser extent, by Western sanctions imposed on Moscow over its alleged role in the internal Ukrainian conflict — a claim the Kremlin has repeatedly denied.

    In 2015, Russian military budget were reduced by almost 4 percent.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:46 am

    Kudrin: Without reserves Russia would've been forced to cut military spending by half

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/economy/871170


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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Project Canada on Sat May 28, 2016 7:25 am



    Russia to boost defense spending by extra $533 million

    The Russian government has confirmed a modernization program for the country's defense industry in order to strengthen the position of Russian products on the world market. The country’s military experts say that the resources are necessary to buy machines and produce components that Russia used to buy from its partners abroad.


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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 28, 2016 7:56 am

    Figured this was gonna happen. While multiple industries are modernized or have started modernization years ago, it is simple that without access to certain technologies, their modernization of the industries will happen a lot slower. So this injection of funds will essentially build the industrial output capabilities of producing the toolings and other goods needed for multiple industries. This concept will have actual returns as well, rather than just throwing money around here and there expecting results - they concentrated on a field that was left to pure imports.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Sun May 29, 2016 2:45 am

    George1 wrote:Kudrin: Without reserves Russia would've been forced to cut military spending by half

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/economy/871170

    Now that we have seen the reserves increase to over $390 US billion we can confidently dismiss this idiot as the crank
    he is. According to him and the rest of the liberast 5th column the reserves should have been vanishing by now.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  kvs on Sun May 29, 2016 2:48 am

    Project Canada wrote:


    Russia to boost defense spending by extra $533 million

    The Russian government has confirmed a modernization program for the country's defense industry in order to strengthen the position of Russian products on the world market. The country’s military experts say that the resources are necessary to buy machines and produce components that Russia used to buy from its partners abroad.


    This must apply to the state owned part of the MIC. The private part has been undergoing modernization for years and has not stopped
    retooling. Anyway, the sanctions have been a serious boost to Russian GDP diversification and national security. NATO blowhards must
    be ripping their own hair out with rage.

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    Re: Military budget of the Russian Federation

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun May 29, 2016 4:02 am

    kvs wrote:
    George1 wrote:Kudrin: Without reserves Russia would've been forced to cut military spending by half

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/economy/871170

    Now that we have seen the reserves increase to over $390 US billion we can confidently dismiss this idiot as the crank
    he is.   According to him and the rest of the liberast 5th column the reserves should have been vanishing by now.

    Agreed 100% Kudrin is a 5th columnist stooge, and this absurd claim is simply another fat slice of proof. I just don't understand people like this idiot who willingly sell out their own nation for a pat on the head from the Western robber-barons and their bought-and-paid satraps in government.

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