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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

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    Militarov
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Wed May 04, 2016 5:05 pm

    On this day, 17 years ago commander of 204th fighter squadron Milenko Pavlović died flying over city where he was born trying to intercept NATO aircrafts.



    This is him flying just a year earlier over Batajnica airfrield.

    Order from High command came that they are to try fly and defend important storage facilities near Valjevo and ammunition factory (what was left of it). Some young pilot pulled the shortest straw, however Milenko called and said ground crew to keep the pilot from entering aircraft, because "if someone has to die today its him". He flew aganist advancing group of 16 NATO fighter-bombers in region around town of Valjevo.

    He flew very agressive trying to scare them off, which he for short period of time even managed however his power generator failed during flight so he went blind without radar. He was hit 12 minutes later by missiles launched from Netherlands F16s. They launched 3 missiles aganist him from long distance and teritory of Bosnia and Herzegovina. His last words to ground control were "They have me", after his SPO device started blinking.

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Mon May 23, 2016 2:33 pm



    UCK fighter 1999. powered by black eye and dislocated shoulder
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Werewolf on Mon May 23, 2016 2:40 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    UCK fighter 1999. powered by black eye and dislocated shoulder

    Aarrrggh!
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:23 pm

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:27 pm













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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:28 pm











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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:30 pm











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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:34 pm














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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:37 pm











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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  flamming_python on Sat May 06, 2017 5:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Of course they still needed Typhoon because there were Flankers but the MiG was no longer something to be worried about. And that is why I think they should make them because the very low western opinion of the aircraft family will bite them in the ass if they ever actually come up against some for real... ones that have been properly maintained and have modern missiles etc.

    They did come up against MiG-29s in Serbia, which were soundly defeated due to massive AWACS/EW/numeric advantages.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  galicije83 on Sat May 06, 2017 6:52 pm

    First of all they was Yugoslavian MiGs, not Serbians, because in 1999 my country name was Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

    Second our MiGs lack of maintenance. They all was bought in 1987. and they dont go to cap overhaul after 7 years because FRY was under UN sanction between 1992-95 . After 1995 when sanction was abolished we have opportunity to send our MiGs to Belarus, to overhal and partial modernization but our president Milosevic didnt send them from his known cause. When NATO start bombing my country in 1999 on our MIG-29s expired all possible resources and they was junks at that time...on many planes radars stop working, SPOs, they lost power on their main systems....so they was easy targets to NATO pilots and planes because all NATO planes engage our MiG at range 30+ km...
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 07, 2017 3:17 am

    They did come up against MiG-29s in Serbia, which were soundly defeated due to massive AWACS/EW/numeric advantages.

    And that is what they trade on... the MiG-29 failed in Serbian hands so it must be crap.

    Lets ignore the fact that the entire command and control network was non existent. Lets ignore that the aircraft that got airborne were basically on their own with faulty equipment that had not be serviced for years.

    It is a bit like a game of cricket where one team has 2 or three players up against a team with 20 players. It does not matter who any of those players are... even if the three are the best players who ever played and the 20 players are fairly ordinary, because there are no match officials and those 20 players can "play" it any way they want.

    Swap those MiGs to fully serviced and up to date F-16s with pilots fully trained to use them effectively and the results would not have been much different... with AWACS the NATO side knew exactly who was in the air and where and could send groups of fighters to intercept. I am sure the leader of that group took the opportunity to launch an AMRAAM from max range so he could get crowing rights for shooting down a real enemy aircraft... there is no chivalry involved... they were there to murder men defending their country from foreign international aggression. A moral war fought immorally. Ironic.


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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  marat on Sun May 07, 2017 12:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    ...
    Lets ignore the fact that the entire command and control network was non existent.
    ...
    WTF you are talking about???
    This is simple BS.

    Till the last day cc network was working.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  galicije83 on Sun May 07, 2017 6:00 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]


    Lets ignore the fact that the entire command and control network was non existent. Lets ignore that the aircraft that got airborne were basically on their own with faulty equipment that had not be serviced for years.

    GarryB ur wrong about network and command....trough entire war this network and command exist and was operational. Our pilots wasnt alone in air when they airborne they know where they go and also they gets information from command. On March 26th 2 our MiG was airborne and was send first to the east of Batajnica air port, to attack group of NATO planes, then after couple of minutes command gave them new targets west from their position. They turn back and go to chase that NATO group. Both our planes was shot down in Bosnia air space. Cap first class Zoran Radosavljevic was killed in his MiG 29, Major Slobodan Peric avoided one AMMRAM but next hit him, and he ejected when he found that the plane are uncontrollable. Our command didnt gave them order to back to airport when the Maj Peric asked them that they go over the line (state border)...because of that we lost one of our pilots for nothing....on both planes radars stop workking after pilots turn them On, on their max power...On Maj Peric MiG SPO didnt work also, on Cap Radosavljevic MiG SPO work and he tells Peric that they are both was engaged by NATO plane...

    Our best MiG29 pilot at that time Predrag Milutinovic Grof out maneuver dozen NATO AMMRAM rockets with his MiG 29. in single combat mission...but he was shot down by our SAMs when he was back to Nis airport at low altitude....
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Isos on Sun May 07, 2017 6:45 pm

    galicije83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:


    Lets ignore the fact that the entire command and control network was non existent. Lets ignore that the aircraft that got airborne were basically on their own with faulty equipment that had not be serviced for years.

    GarryB ur wrong about network and command....trough entire war this network and command exist and was operational. Our pilots wasnt alone in air when they airborne they know where they go and also they gets information from command. On March 26th 2 our MiG was airborne and was send first to the east of Batajnica air port, to attack group  of NATO planes, then after couple of minutes command gave them new targets west from their position. They turn back and go to chase that NATO group. Both our planes was shot down in Bosnia air space. Cap first class Zoran Radosavljevic was killed in his MiG 29, Major Slobodan Peric avoided one AMMRAM but next hit him, and he ejected when he found that the plane are uncontrollable. Our command didnt gave them order to back to airport when the Maj Peric asked them that they  go over the line (state border)...because of that we lost one of our pilots for nothing....on both planes radars stop workking after pilots turn them On, on their max  power...On Maj Peric MiG SPO didnt work also, on Cap Radosavljevic MiG SPO work and he tells Peric that they are both was engaged by NATO plane...

    Our best MiG29 pilot at that time Predrag Milutinovic Grof out maneuver dozen NATO AMMRAM rockets with his MiG 29. in single combat mission...but he was shot down by our SAMs when he was back to Nis airport at low altitude....

    I've seen that some of them managed to get locks on NATO fighter but missile couldn't be lunched.

    NATO results are very bad at then end. They engaged hundred of fighters and all the support they had against maybe 10 Mig-29 that could fly. With decent radars, fiighters and EW complexes against them, they would have lost much more.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 08, 2017 3:54 am

    WTF you are talking about???
    This is simple BS.

    Till the last day cc network was working.

    So what you are saying is that Serbia had a full and complete air picture 24/7 and was able to direct its aircraft to attack threats without interference?

    Really?

    So it was incompetent pilots?


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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  marat on Mon May 08, 2017 1:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    WTF you are talking about???
    This is simple BS.

    Till the last day cc network was working.

    So what you are saying is that Serbia had a full and complete air picture 24/7 and was able to direct its aircraft to attack threats without interference?

    Really?

    So it was incompetent pilots?

    No country have 24x7 total awareness of air situation in war. But that do not meant that CC was destroyed. That is pure BS.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon May 08, 2017 2:29 pm


    Guys this entire argument you have here is pointless.

    Back in '99 we could have had fleet of 100 F-22 Raptors in the air the moment war started and it would have still made no difference whatsoever because numerical superiority of NATO was insane.

    There were more enemy jets coming at us than those theoretical 100 Raptors would have had missiles loaded on them.

    You will need different example for this discussion.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Isos on Mon May 08, 2017 2:53 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Guys this entire argument you have here is pointless.

    Back in '99 we could have had fleet of 100 F-22 Raptors in the air the moment war started and it would have still made no difference whatsoever because numerical superiority of NATO was insane.

    There were more enemy jets coming at us than those theoretical 100 Raptors would have had missiles loaded on them.  

    You will need different example for this discussion.

    Do you have an average of how many nato fighter were in the air at the same time ?
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    Yugoslavian MiG-29s

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 12, 2017 9:45 am

    Do you have an average of how many nato fighter were in the air at the same time ?

    They had enough AWACS aircraft and regional assets to detect Serb aircraft taking off 24/7.

    It wouldn't matter which Serb aircraft got airborne whether it was 3 MiG-29s with non functioning radars and obsolete export model AAMs or 100. If it was 100 they would simply sit 60km away and pick them off with AMRAAM. If it was 3 then send in a dozen F-16s to attack from behind also with AMRAAM.

    The whole purpose of a command and control system is to find the enemy and to concentrate your forces to deal with them.

    With AWACS coverage you can watch their major airfields and when something takes off you can send appropriate assets to take them out. It means you don't need to constantly patrol air space in the hope of catching them in the air.

    No country have 24x7 total awareness of air situation in war. But that do not meant that CC was destroyed. That is pure BS.

    A command and control system that has no idea where the enemy is and cannot communicate with its fighter pilots is not a functioning system.

    Those serb pilots fought practically blind and is not a reasonable way to judge the performance of the aircraft they flew or them as pilots.

    It would take serious courage to get into an aircraft knowing it likely does not have a functioning radar against the best NATO can send.


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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 28, 2017 2:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Do you have an average of how many nato fighter were in the air at the same time ?

    They had enough AWACS aircraft and regional assets to detect Serb aircraft taking off 24/7.

    It wouldn't matter which Serb aircraft got airborne whether it was 3 MiG-29s with non functioning radars and obsolete export model AAMs or 100. If it was 100 they would simply sit 60km away and pick them off with AMRAAM. If it was 3 then send in a dozen F-16s to attack from behind also with AMRAAM.

    The whole purpose of a command and control system is to find the enemy and to concentrate your forces to deal with them.

    With AWACS coverage you can watch their major airfields and when something takes off you can send appropriate assets to take them out. It means you don't need to constantly patrol air space in the hope of catching them in the air.

    No country have 24x7 total awareness of air situation in war. But that do not meant that CC was destroyed. That is pure BS.

    A command and control system that has no idea where the enemy is and cannot communicate with its fighter pilots is not a functioning system.

    Those serb pilots fought practically blind and is not a reasonable way to judge the performance of the aircraft they flew or them as pilots.

    It would take serious courage to get into an aircraft knowing it likely does not have a functioning radar against the best NATO can send.

    We more than once engaged own aircraft in the air, that says enough on whole this topic.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 29, 2017 7:01 am

    We more than once engaged own aircraft in the air, that says enough on whole this topic.

    And a layman would say that was proof they were useless.

    Someone who thinks for themselves however... like myself, would suggest that this is just proof they took off blind.

    History is full of examples of pilots getting excited and shooting down their own wingman with missiles... even when they have functioning radars and ground control...


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