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    1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:21 pm

    check this video out



    where is that village? They pounded it like Kobani Neutral
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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:51 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:check this video out



    where is that village? They pounded it like Kobani Neutral

    Its village called Planeja (sounds abit Greek), attack on it was part of what we here call "Operation Arrow". While it looks devastating, effects of the bombardment were quite limited, core of the units stationed there was intact.







    Few shots after strikes



    Another video of same area
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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:00 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:Even us, despite declining use of airbases for strikes and border (pre-Rambouillet), our government (member of EU and NATO) did very little to help you. Mainly humanitarian stuff and media-wise the Serbian POV was/is public opinion (daily footage directly from RTS, journos went up there, etc). But that Greek government 96-00 was the same that screwed the country over financially, sold the eurozone myth, wasted a lot of money, handled aggressiveness of Turkey horribly etc.

    So tell those people that Hellas' membership in EU/NATO failed to help you as well.
    Also I distinctively remember CNN airing a map with both Turkey and us "on fire" and the story was that if Serbia wins the war, trouble will go south...

    PS. I always felt Milosevic sold everything out in Rambouillet... am I wrong? The media here conveyed this image of a strongman that will never yield.
    PS2. we can continue if you like on the 1999 war thread.
    PS3. just realized tanjug press agency is shut. wtf Shocked

    Well except few random volonteurs and some "Dogs of War" from Greece there was no real help. Except few rumons about some Greek officer leaking info to our General Staff, but that is questionable.

    Well Milosević did best he could... not sure what else he could have done... one of his mistakes tho was leaving Krajina in 1995. to fall, and that is reason why many Serbs dont like him.

    Yes Tanjug does not exist anymore.... but dont worry, EU will build for us new and better news agency, older too Very Happy
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:05 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:check this video out



    where is that village? They pounded it like Kobani Neutral

    That village is the shame of Albanian politics, and it will hound us forever.

    It's right on the North Eastern Albanian/Ex-FRY border. It's called Planeja. Fun fact I crossed further North in 1997 to get out of ALbania during the troubles. Many of the people on the border post there that would get killed by NATO actually saved my life. It's f***** sad. In Albania we have a saying, "I with bread and you with stone". Well basically the Albanian Government acted like that.
    It's separated by the White Drin River, that coes in perpendicular to the border. which forms a natural barrier. The NATO was bombing actually in front of the UCK people that were crossing the border. In fact it is the same thing that NATO accuses Russia of doing in Ukraine. It's sad.

    They would assemble groups in Morinë with NATO planners and send them through the border on a slant route to have cover through the foliage. Most of those whores got spotted which forced NATO to get going and hit the village. Now the press in Albania has started pushing out the "real" stories of the "UCK". The "guys" were massively criminals that were gathered to "defend" the motherland, they'd be formed by NATO troops under PELICAN, US advisors would for the core, 'about 3 teams of 60 people', than a wider training program was done by the Germans about 500 guys, and the rest was taken care by the Albanian Gov under US embassy patronage.

    many didn't need much "training", they were patented criminals and "resistants". UNfortunately a small contingent of "moderate" beheaders also joined in. A couple of Jordanians, Saudis and Bosnians.

    If this was a genuine "liberation" movement, although I have the greatest respect for Serbia, so be it. It happens. But this was in great part a fabricated mercenary army, formed over the rubble of the Albanian state, armed with weapons plundered in Albanian stocks and breeding on Albanian blood.

    There's nothing but Albanian sorrow that created this. And somehow many Albanians consider this a victory. LOL.


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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:05 pm















    "Operation Arrow" documentary, you have titles too just need to activate them.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:10 pm

    Yeah well Militarov posted a whole Documentary about it. I won't say it's 100% truth, but it's far more right than whatever NATO crap was told about this situation.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:29 pm

    Thanks to the both of you. I am convinced that this war had nothing to do with the interests of Albanians in Serbia, testament to that is that Albania did not get the territory. This was/is a recipe for disaster and I fear leaves the door wide open for future conflict. As both of you know, I am not at all a fan of what Tito's Yugoslavia did on the FYROM issue nor did I ever agree with communists. But as a teenager, even from TV watching that war (here media showed a lot of ugly stuff...) was the epitome of evil. And we know who pushed things in that direction. I have utmost respect for what Yugoslavia stood for and how it brought together different countries and made a strong industrially nation competing with N. and W. Europe. For us it was a big, northern respected neighbor and gateway to central, western and northern Europe.

    I don't know if today's post Yugo nations (probably bar Slovenia) have much to be proud about or whether what they've constructed as success-story (Croatia for Croats, Kosovo for Albanians, moderates in Bosnia, etc.).

    Anyway, sorry for much talking. PapaDragon's video from the war brought me a lot of memories.

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  cheesfactory on Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:14 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Yeah well Militarov posted a whole Documentary about it. I won't say it's 100% truth, but it's far more right than whatever NATO crap was told about this situation.


    Some Frames are of course a bit out of place in the documentary. I can no longer hear this shit with the official data on the number of dead soldiers. People who were there right at the front, have quite different numbers in the head.
    Even those who personally knows "Mr. Albert", must smile from his appearance here...some other Russian brothers would have been suitable for this purpose.
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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:59 am



    Victors write the history.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:42 am

    Militarov wrote:

    Victors write the history.

    If we're talking about America, then yes those people got their nice foothold. If you're talking about Albanians (in Albania), then nope, we actually were the second losers of this. We opened the Pandora box, in the SOuth, at any moment we have about 100K people ready to go back to Greece (just because) what do you think will happen if the Greeks decide to pull a Kosovo on us? We'll be fucked. And no NATO BS is going to save us. Half my native town is made up with minority Greeks. What do you think they felt when Northern Albanians were chanting Ethnic Albania? We had shivers that much it was bad. Family members had to pay visit around each other so no hothead BS would happen. It's a very sensitive matter around here, especially since most of the families, from both sides have immigrants in Greece. Europeans (normal ones) don't understand how edgy this this is. How hard it has been to get back in order after those years.
    Kosovars (Albanophones) are mostly dismayed about their "state". It's actually worse than it was before. There's no law, there's no order, there's no logic in Kosovo. The only thing that has changed is that there's no open war any more within the Kosovar community.


    And then well there's you, basically the Last European Leprosy patient of Europe. While Belgrade should have been a regional center to coordinate and get together the Balkans. Instead it (the war) injected even more hatred among people and ultimately led to the Montenegrin secession.
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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:28 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    Victors write the history.

    If we're talking about America, then yes those people got their nice foothold. If you're talking about Albanians (in Albania), then nope, we actually were the second losers of this. We opened the Pandora box, in the SOuth, at any moment we have about 100K people ready to go back to Greece (just because) what do you think will happen if the Greeks decide to pull a Kosovo on us? We'll be fucked. And no NATO BS is going to save us. Half my native town is made up with minority Greeks. What do you think they felt when Northern Albanians were chanting Ethnic Albania? We had shivers that much it was bad. Family members had to pay visit around each other so no hothead BS would happen. It's a very sensitive matter around here, especially since most of the families, from both sides have immigrants in Greece. Europeans (normal ones) don't understand how edgy this this is. How hard it has been to get back in order after those years.
    Kosovars (Albanophones) are mostly dismayed about their "state". It's actually worse than it was before. There's no law, there's no order, there's no logic in Kosovo. The only thing that has changed is that there's no open war any more within the Kosovar community.


    And then well there's you, basically the Last European Leprosy patient of Europe. While Belgrade should have been a regional center to coordinate and get together the Balkans. Instead it (the war) injected even more hatred among people and ultimately led to the Montenegrin secession.

    Pre 1999. Kosovo-Yugoslavia was state with order and law in place. Occasional small bribes (to policeman to not write you a ticket for speeding and similar) and stuff of that sort would happen but where they do not. Capital Belgrade had few thugs that now they call "mafia", just couple dozen of thugs that were killing eachother in clubs over a truck full of gasoline or similar. Other than that... it was like that series "law and order". Now when i see what "independend state of Kosovo" has become i actually have smile on my face. Noone was hungry on Kosovo for 70 years, noone was lacking medicines, noone was traficking cocaine and lived long enough to brag about it.

    You have "Kosovars" now traveling though my city in hundreds trying to reach Hungary, Austria, Germany begging here on the way for shelter and money and most common sentence you can hear is "Ja nesam UČK". Meanwhile in 1999. our Police on patrols was soaked by boiling oil or water by women from the terraces. But sure... they are not UCK now.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:31 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    Victors write the history.

    If we're talking about America, then yes those people got their nice foothold. If you're talking about Albanians (in Albania), then nope, we actually were the second losers of this. We opened the Pandora box, in the SOuth, at any moment we have about 100K people ready to go back to Greece (just because) what do you think will happen if the Greeks decide to pull a Kosovo on us? We'll be fucked. And no NATO BS is going to save us. Half my native town is made up with minority Greeks. What do you think they felt when Northern Albanians were chanting Ethnic Albania? We had shivers that much it was bad. Family members had to pay visit around each other so no hothead BS would happen. It's a very sensitive matter around here, especially since most of the families, from both sides have immigrants in Greece. Europeans (normal ones) don't understand how edgy this this is. How hard it has been to get back in order after those years.
    Kosovars (Albanophones) are mostly dismayed about their "state". It's actually worse than it was before. There's no law, there's no order, there's no logic in Kosovo. The only thing that has changed is that there's no open war any more within the Kosovar community.


    And then well there's you, basically the Last European Leprosy patient of Europe. While Belgrade should have been a regional center to coordinate and get together the Balkans. Instead it (the war) injected even more hatred among people and ultimately led to the Montenegrin secession.

    Pre 1999. Kosovo-Yugoslavia was state with order and law in place. Occasional small bribes (to policeman to not write you a ticket for speeding and similar) and stuff of that sort would happen but where they do not. Capital Belgrade had few thugs that now they call "mafia", just couple dozen of thugs that were killing eachother in clubs over a truck full of gasoline or similar. Other than that... it was like that series "law and order". Now when i see what "independend state of Kosovo" has become i actually have smile on my face. Noone was hungry on Kosovo for 70 years, noone was lacking medicines, noone was traficking cocaine and lived long enough to brag about it.

    You have "Kosovars" now traveling though my city in hundreds trying to reach Hungary, Austria, Germany begging here on the way for shelter and money and most common sentence you can hear is "Ja nesam UČK". Meanwhile in 1999. our Police on patrols was soaked by boiling oil or water by women from the terraces. But sure... they are not UCK now.

    What can I say, the fewer the merrier for everyone. It's a whole land of degenerates and the few that are normal, have either gotten out or become rich.
    Ohh well we beat Oddjob Bosnacis for the most debiloid people in the Balkans. Yay Albania and Kosovostan.
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    Cowboy's daughter

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:59 pm

    This conflict has always been confusing to me. Embarassed

    I remember seeing Sarajevo bombed (on television).
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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:07 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:This conflict has always been confusing to me. Embarassed

    I remember seeing Sarajevo bombed (on television).

    Sarajevo was featured in earlier war 1991-1995. during breakdown of Yugoslavia. And it was never really bombed by airforce at least not in any significant cappacity, artillery was mainly used.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:10 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:This conflict has always been confusing to me. Embarassed

    I remember seeing Sarajevo bombed (on television).

    Sarajevo was featured in earlier war 1991-1995. during breakdown of Yugoslavia. And it was never really bombed by airforce at least not in any significant cappacity, artillery was mainly used.

    Thank you for your clarification.

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:45 am

    Calm before the storm, literally

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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:46 pm

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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:08 am

    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:Even us, despite declining use of airbases for strikes and border (pre-Rambouillet), our government (member of EU and NATO) did very little to help you. Mainly humanitarian stuff and media-wise the Serbian POV was/is public opinion (daily footage directly from RTS, journos went up there, etc). But that Greek government 96-00 was the same that screwed the country over financially, sold the eurozone myth, wasted a lot of money, handled aggressiveness of Turkey horribly etc.

    So tell those people that Hellas' membership in EU/NATO failed to help you as well.
    Also I distinctively remember CNN airing a map with both Turkey and us "on fire" and the story was that if Serbia wins the war, trouble will go south...

    PS. I always felt Milosevic sold everything out in Rambouillet... am I wrong? The media here conveyed this image of a strongman that will never yield.
    PS2. we can continue if you like on the 1999 war thread.
    PS3. just realized tanjug press agency is shut. wtf Shocked

    Well except few random volonteurs and some "Dogs of War" from Greece there was no real help. Except few rumons about some Greek officer leaking info to our General Staff, but that is questionable.

    Well Milosević did best he could... not sure what else he could have done... one of his mistakes tho was leaving Krajina in 1995. to fall, and that is reason why many Serbs dont like him.

    Yes Tanjug does not exist anymore.... but dont worry, EU will build for us new and better news agency, older too Very Happy


    Have read in a Polish newspaper that some Polish volunteers went to the Yugoslav embassy in Warsaw in 1999 offering their help, but that they were turned away because "their services were not needed."

    That was allegedly said by the contemporary Yugoslav ambassador to Poland.


    Also read that the NATO leak(s) was/were made by some Czech(s).


    There is practically nothing Milosevic could have done about Krajina; both it and Yugoslavia were being sanctioned and embargoed into defeat. Also, Krajina had a very long border and very small population; it was an easy target for a Blitzkrieg type of an invasion.
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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:40 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:Even us, despite declining use of airbases for strikes and border (pre-Rambouillet), our government (member of EU and NATO) did very little to help you. Mainly humanitarian stuff and media-wise the Serbian POV was/is public opinion (daily footage directly from RTS, journos went up there, etc). But that Greek government 96-00 was the same that screwed the country over financially, sold the eurozone myth, wasted a lot of money, handled aggressiveness of Turkey horribly etc.

    So tell those people that Hellas' membership in EU/NATO failed to help you as well.
    Also I distinctively remember CNN airing a map with both Turkey and us "on fire" and the story was that if Serbia wins the war, trouble will go south...

    PS. I always felt Milosevic sold everything out in Rambouillet... am I wrong? The media here conveyed this image of a strongman that will never yield.
    PS2. we can continue if you like on the 1999 war thread.
    PS3. just realized tanjug press agency is shut. wtf Shocked

    Well except few random volonteurs and some "Dogs of War" from Greece there was no real help. Except few rumons about some Greek officer leaking info to our General Staff, but that is questionable.

    Well Milosević did best he could... not sure what else he could have done... one of his mistakes tho was leaving Krajina in 1995. to fall, and that is reason why many Serbs dont like him.

    Yes Tanjug does not exist anymore.... but dont worry, EU will build for us new and better news agency, older too Very Happy


    Have read in a Polish newspaper that some Polish volunteers went to the Yugoslav embassy in Warsaw in 1999 offering their help, but that they were turned away because "their services were not needed."

    That was allegedly said by the contemporary Yugoslav ambassador to Poland.


    Also read that the NATO leak(s) was/were made by some Czech(s).


    There is practically nothing Milosevic could have done about Krajina; both it and Yugoslavia were being sanctioned and embargoed into defeat. Also, Krajina had a very long border and very small population; it was an easy target for a Blitzkrieg type of an invasion.

    Ah yes, there were also some Russians, volonteurs, some even died or got wounded though war. One of them was even now legendary Anatoly Lebed future commander of 45th Guards Spetsnaz Regiment.



    Well, it wouldnt be easy however Serbia and JNA still had huge potential, Krajina at one point operated only two batteries of ZiS 3 guns so... figure their firepower.
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Godric on Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:02 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:This conflict has always been confusing to me. Embarassed

    I remember seeing Sarajevo bombed (on television).

    I remember the UK news coming out with the Serbia bad stuff ... the reporting made no sense .. you had the Croats with their chequer board flags the Croatian Nazis Utasha or Ustasche flew during WW2 ... I think this was the main factor for Serbs losing their temper ... the croats were guilty on a massive scale in the ethnic cleansing of Orthodox Serbs .... the Croats wanted a Catholic superstate and they received the blessing of the pope in cleansing the Orthodox Serbs from Croatia ... this is why the war in Croatia and Bosnia was so bloody because the Slovenia breakaway was relatively peaceful with only minor incidents .... i'm sure Militarov will correct me if I am wrong
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:59 am

    Godric wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:This conflict has always been confusing to me. Embarassed

    I remember seeing Sarajevo bombed (on television).

    I remember the UK news coming out with the Serbia bad stuff ... the reporting made no sense .. you had the Croats with their chequer board flags the Croatian Nazis Utasha or Ustasche flew during WW2 ... I think this was the main factor for Serbs losing their temper ... the croats were guilty on a massive scale in the ethnic cleansing of Orthodox Serbs .... the Croats wanted a Catholic superstate and they received the blessing of the pope in cleansing the Orthodox Serbs from Croatia ... this is why the war in Croatia and Bosnia was so bloody because the Slovenia breakaway was relatively peaceful with only minor incidents .... i'm sure Militarov will correct me if I am wrong

    Well, i can tell you alot about that topic as i felt quite of it first hand. My village was 70% Serbian 30% Croatian in 1941. in 1945. it was 30% Serbian and 70% Croatian... i dont need to explain you why. 11 males from my house aged 15-55 were taken, throats sliced and then thrown into natural pit, together with 1340 other Serbs from that community. Now...if someone started waving in font of your nose with letter U on Croatian flag, tell me, what would you do?

    War in Bosnia and parts of Croatia was more intense due to fact Serbs tried to keep Yugoslavia together, while Croats and majority of Muslims belived how everything will be so much better without "opressive Serbs". They actually genuinely belived how they do not have enough rights in decision making on federal lvl, which from this time distance i can just call retarded. They would even get spots on military academy equal to their % in Yugoslavian population even tho half of them wasnt really...bright enough for anything beside taking care of sheep, hat down to exceptions as there were some highly respected Muslim poets, engineers etc.

    War in Slovenia was very short true, however Slovenians did one thing, they killed probably near 100 high ranking JNA officers in their homes hours before their "separation". They sent ppl to their apartments, they would ring and say how they are urgently needed at job or similar, when he opens door to let them in or to join them, they shoot him in font of family, kids, doesnt matter. One of such cases was my fathers cousin, Air force captain first class. He was killed in hallway of his apartment in front of wife and 2 kids with a submachine gun MGV-176 .22 LR he was shot like 40 times. His crime? Serbian officer of Yugoslavian National Army, loyal to his flag and rank.

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:13 am

    The interesting thing is that when I talk to westerners or all the ethnic groups actually involved in the conflict except the Serbs... they say the bad guys were the Serbs.

    Most of the Serbs I talk to about it say there were no good guys and everybody did very bad things, but that the Serbs tended to get the blame for everything... largely likely because of their link to Russia no doubt.


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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Godric on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:08 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:This conflict has always been confusing to me. Embarassed

    I remember seeing Sarajevo bombed (on television).

    I remember the UK news coming out with the Serbia bad stuff ... the reporting made no sense .. you had the Croats with their chequer board flags the Croatian Nazis Utasha or Ustasche flew during WW2 ... I think this was the main factor for Serbs losing their temper ... the croats were guilty on a massive scale in the ethnic cleansing of Orthodox Serbs .... the Croats wanted a Catholic superstate and they received the blessing of the pope in cleansing the Orthodox Serbs from Croatia ... this is why the war in Croatia and Bosnia was so bloody because the Slovenia breakaway was relatively peaceful with only minor incidents .... i'm sure Militarov will correct me if I am wrong

    Well, i can tell you alot about that topic as i felt quite of it first hand. My village was 70% Serbian 30% Croatian in 1941. in 1945. it was 30% Serbian and 70% Croatian... i dont need to explain you why. 11 males from my house aged 15-55 were taken, throats sliced and then thrown into natural pit, together with 1340 other Serbs from that community. Now...if someone started waving in font of your nose with letter U on Croatian flag, tell me, what would you do?

    War in Bosnia and parts of Croatia was more intense due to fact Serbs tried to keep Yugoslavia together, while Croats and majority of Muslims belived how everything will be so much better without "opressive Serbs". They actually genuinely belived how they do not have enough rights in decision making on federal lvl, which from this time distance i can just call retarded. They would even get spots on military academy equal to their % in Yugoslavian population even tho half of them wasnt really...bright enough for anything beside taking care of sheep, hat down to exceptions as there were some highly respected Muslim poets, engineers etc.

    War in Slovenia was very short true, however Slovenians did one thing, they killed probably near 100 high ranking JNA officers in their homes hours before their "separation". They sent ppl to their apartments, they would ring and say how they are urgently needed at job or similar, when he opens door to let them in or to join them, they shoot him in font of family, kids, doesnt matter. One of such cases was my fathers cousin, Air force captain first class. He was killed in hallway of his apartment in front of wife and 2 kids with a submachine gun MGV-176 .22 LR he was shot like 40 times. His crime? Serbian officer of Yugoslavian National Army, loyal to his flag and rank.


    Cheers Militarov the first part I know about ie the ethnic cleansing , the 2nd part I wasn't quite fully sure of due to the one sided reporting and the 3rd part in relation to Slovenia that is a eye opener ... we were just told by our media that the Slovenians barricaded military barracks ....

    I am sorry for your family's loses during both wars Militarov
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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:The interesting thing is that when I talk to westerners or all the ethnic groups actually involved in the conflict except the Serbs... they say the bad guys were the Serbs.

    Most of the Serbs I talk to about it say there were no good guys and everybody did very bad things, but that the Serbs tended to get the blame for everything... largely likely because of their link to Russia no doubt.

    Croats, Bosnians and later Albanians had great support from Germany most notably, even weapons, Croatians were supplied for an example with significant amounts of Ambrusts. Now when Germany says something, others EU members follow. And how i see it, Germans always had thing for Croatians and their blind obidinence to German influence. For God sake they sent 10.000 men "Black Legion" to fight in Russia during WW2. They were running one of the biggest WW2 death camps, Jasenovac. So i guess that way way to repay Croats and Muslims (Yes Muslims too were members of NHD Ustaše, they were actually last to lay weapons in place called Fazlagića Kula).

    See, Croats fought on German side in WW2, WW2 both times post war "hugged" by Serbs which prevented them from being listed on losing side, they never answered for their crimes aganist civilians in Serbian Mačva in WW1 (and there were plenty), then again after WW2 Serbians formed state with them included, some Ustaše were punished by new Communist regime but it was all beans compared to real scale of that organisation. And what happens? Croats only remember Blajburg, place were captured Ustaše were executed for their crimes, they never mention anything before. They actually blame Serbs directly for "killing Croats in Blajburg", which was basically Yugoslavian Nirmberg trial.

    Serbs are not saints, but things that Serbs did are so sporadic, unorganised and mostly done in revenge.

    Let me tell you one story, its longish but i think it will say thing or two:

    Youngest person from my family to die in June 1941. by Croats was 15 years old. Croats that gathered all male Serbs from my village were our actual Croatian neighbours reinforced by Croats from city of Dubrovnik. They said various lies to make them come peacefully, my grand-grand father which was 55 at that time, was village knez (term derived from Russian, means like leader/chieftain of a sort) and they told him he needs to come to a meeting, new Independent State of Croatia needs to read him changes in laws etc, to rest of my family they said they need to give away old documents and recieve new so that they need to come too. When they left village they were tied up in long line with ropes and taken on foot to 7-8km away natural deep natural pit. Some were killed by knife and thrown, some hit in head with big wooden hammer, some thrown alive, occasionally handgrenade was thrown after them to stop screams of wounded that did not die.

    Now let me come back to 15 years old guy. He was sick, and was laying near fireplace with temperature. They asked my Grand-grand mother whats up with a kid (it was brother of our Croat neighbour, his family way very poor and they would often use our land to feed their cow, and grandmother would send them every sunday big wheat flour bread, as they mainly ate corn bread, this guy however was working in Dubrovnik on docks and came here only for this "job") and she said (like many mothers would to boost sick kids morale): "He is not a kid, he is a bachelor now, he might need to marry soon". Then our neighbour, friend, copatriot said: "Then if he is a man, he should come with us too". Naturally she never saw him again, his remains were identified in 1991. taken from that same pit, decades after his mother died. Grand-Grand mother blamed herself for his death, and she never pointed out who that guy was, out of fear i guess.

    Now, lets say some 15 years post WW2, was is long over, one of my far cousins talked with Croatian train conductor about my village and he apparently "had a few drinks" and said at one moment: "I am sorry of nothing in my life, but for that young <insert my surname> boy i took from <insert village>". Lets say this information came to ears of my grandfather cousins. They stopped the train one day, took conductor off it, took him to mountains on foot, tied far, far and took his brains out with a rifle bullet. None of them is alive today, police lets say "turned head away" too so i am fairly free to share this. My point, Serbs are not genuinely some butchers and maniacs like West likes to portrait us... but sure as Hell you should not make them your enemy. Coz if you do, you will have to cry out loud to Germans, Brits and Americans to save your ass.
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    Militarov

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

    Post  Militarov on Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:27 pm

    Godric wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:This conflict has always been confusing to me. Embarassed

    I remember seeing Sarajevo bombed (on television).

    I remember the UK news coming out with the Serbia bad stuff ... the reporting made no sense .. you had the Croats with their chequer board flags the Croatian Nazis Utasha or Ustasche flew during WW2 ... I think this was the main factor for Serbs losing their temper ... the croats were guilty on a massive scale in the ethnic cleansing of Orthodox Serbs .... the Croats wanted a Catholic superstate and they received the blessing of the pope in cleansing the Orthodox Serbs from Croatia ... this is why the war in Croatia and Bosnia was so bloody because the Slovenia breakaway was relatively peaceful with only minor incidents .... i'm sure Militarov will correct me if I am wrong

    Well, i can tell you alot about that topic as i felt quite of it first hand. My village was 70% Serbian 30% Croatian in 1941. in 1945. it was 30% Serbian and 70% Croatian... i dont need to explain you why. 11 males from my house aged 15-55 were taken, throats sliced and then thrown into natural pit, together with 1340 other Serbs from that community. Now...if someone started waving in font of your nose with letter U on Croatian flag, tell me, what would you do?

    War in Bosnia and parts of Croatia was more intense due to fact Serbs tried to keep Yugoslavia together, while Croats and majority of Muslims belived how everything will be so much better without "opressive Serbs". They actually genuinely belived how they do not have enough rights in decision making on federal lvl, which from this time distance i can just call retarded. They would even get spots on military academy equal to their % in Yugoslavian population even tho half of them wasnt really...bright enough for anything beside taking care of sheep, hat down to exceptions as there were some highly respected Muslim poets, engineers etc.

    War in Slovenia was very short true, however Slovenians did one thing, they killed probably near 100 high ranking JNA officers in their homes hours before their "separation". They sent ppl to their apartments, they would ring and say how they are urgently needed at job or similar, when he opens door to let them in or to join them, they shoot him in font of family, kids, doesnt matter. One of such cases was my fathers cousin, Air force captain first class. He was killed in hallway of his apartment in front of wife and 2 kids with a submachine gun MGV-176 .22 LR he was shot like 40 times. His crime? Serbian officer of Yugoslavian National Army, loyal to his flag and rank.


    Cheers Militarov  the first part I know about ie the ethnic cleansing , the 2nd part I wasn't quite fully sure of due to the one sided reporting and the 3rd part in relation to Slovenia that is a eye opener ... we were just told by our media that the Slovenians barricaded military barracks ....

    I am sorry for your family's loses during both wars Militarov

    Yeah, there is alot to this all Yugoslav wars mess that even i do not know and i partially lived though it, and i live though issues it made.

    Ty, it was long ago but still, when you read names in a book or hear stories from old family members and cousins, you wonder.

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    Re: 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia

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