Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Chinese UAVs

    Share

    nightcrawler
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 559
    Points : 687
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Anjian (Dark Sword) UCAV, China

    Post  nightcrawler on Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:28 pm


    Anjian (Dark Sword) is a conceptual UCAV by Shenyang(SAC),AVIC1. it's designed for high maneuverbility in supersonic condition,to be applied for air to air mission. its underfuselage intake and swing canards are somewhat associated with J-10. large intake implies high speed, agility and angle-of-attack flying, therefore a turbofan engine will be required.

    technical preparation

    this is a prototype of small turbofan engine-WS500.finalized in 2005.

    offical intro to WS500

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:08 am

    The development of air to air combat UCAV aircraft will be a rather difficult thing to do. Most successful aircraft in air to air combat are those that have the situational awareness to a level that they know where their target is and where they are and where their friends are and the target of their attentions do not know they exist.
    Most UAVs however fly most of their time on what equates to an autopilot, though they can be manually flown or commanded to orbit an area if the need arises most of the time they fly level and straight and their situation awareness comes from 3-4 cameras mounted on the craft that will generally include one or two forward facing cameras for flight and 2-3 cameras mounted in a swivel mounting to allow a wide range of visibility below the aircraft, usually a day camera and a night capable camera and possibly another camera with very high zoom capability. The problem is that any aircraft sneaking up behind could probably get very close before it is noticed and it is rather unlikely that a decent ESM suite with RHAW and other capabilities will be wasted on an expendable aircraft.
    It is not an accident that the Serbs found that they could fly beside a UAV with a helicopter and shoot it down with a machine gun from the cabin door.

    UCAVs will have a long way to go before they become efficient air to air combat pilots.

    nightcrawler
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 559
    Points : 687
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  nightcrawler on Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:41 pm

    @GarryB

    But dont you think while comparing a UCAV & a cruise missile; UCAV has an edge as it has got two warhead than one or may be more & also can be reused

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:54 am

    There is no problem with fitting more than one warhead to a cruise missile.

    In fact the AS-18 KAZOO is supposed to be able to fly down a flight line and deploy cluster munitions at set intervals to hit a line of targets. For instance a line of aircraft parked near a runway are difficult to take out with just one warhead, but a Kh-59 can be programmed to fly down the flight line and deploy cluster munitions a few at a time as it flys down the line of aircraft doing damage to all the aircraft. It can do the same with other targets like a line of vehicles on a road with guided anti armour sub munitions.


    In fact in the 50s or 60s there was an American nuclear powered cruise missile that flew at low level at mach 3 that carried about 24 nuclear warheads that were fired up when the missile was over the target an by the time the warhead fell to earth and detonated the missile was beyond the blast radius and it flew to the next target area.

    My quibble is not with UCAVs, I think they are a good idea.
    I just think that in the role of air to air combat they are not ready to perform as well as a fighter jet yet.
    As an aircraft that delivers a precision strike like an F-16 with laser guided bombs flying at medium height I think a UCAV could do an even better job than an F-16 or a cruise missile. But using a UCAV to shoot down enemy aircraft I don't think that is such a good idea because the cost of all the bits and pieces needed to make them effective, like an AESA radar, a modern long range AAM and dogfight AAMs, plus the RHAWs and ESM suite needed to make it effective will make it so expensive it is not expendable any more. And if it is not expendable any more then it is not a good idea for a UCAV. If it doesn't have the radar and missiles and RHAW etc etc then it will be worse than a single Arab Mig-21 going up against the Israeli air force because of the lack of situational awareness for the UCAV and the coordination and SA of the opposition.

    nightcrawler
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 559
    Points : 687
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  nightcrawler on Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:59 pm

    No one is saying that UCAVS be doing dogfights or engaing any fighter planes.
    However from carrying two warheads I mean UCAV can carry two missiles. Everybody know two independent missiles way better than a single missile with two or more warheads.
    In future one can easily assume UCAV carrying atleast four missiles to target mainly important buildings/radar or SAM installations; functions UCAV can readily perform & sure they would be more stealthy & silent than big warplanes

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:47 am

    Actually the current model of a Predator with two Hellfire missiles is the expensive option.

    Fitting two standard 20 shot 80mm rocket pods and fitting those rockets with Ugroza guidance kits you could target up to 40 targets with much cheaper missiles that are just as accurate as the larger and more expensive Hellfire class missiles. If the 80mm rockets' 4.5kg HE warheads are not heavy enough then there are other options.
    For harder targets then S-13 122mm rocket pods carry 5 rockets each with warheads up to 33kgs, and the S-25 single rocket pod with 266mm body diameter with the warhead sticking out the end like an RPG-7 with a warhead of 150kg should do the trick.

    If the ground target is a convoy of light trucks then the 80mm rocket will do fine.

    AFAIK the 57mm rockets of the S-5 system are no longer used because of their light warhead weight, but S-8 (80mm) S-13 (122mm) S-24 (240mm)and S-25 (266mm) unguided rockets can be fitted with the Ugroza guidance package to allow these weapons to be used to ballistic range with the accuracy to hit point targets at a fraction of the cost of an ATGM.

    nightcrawler
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 559
    Points : 687
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  nightcrawler on Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:44 pm

    @GarryB

    Good & economical thinking.
    by the way I can't find any document about
    Ugroza guidance package
    will you be kind enough to upload some specs about this system in english study

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:50 am

    It is mentioned on this page:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-8_rocket

    Note the S-5 is no longer used by the Russian AF as far as I know because although it can be carried in large volumes of up to 32 rockets per pod the rockets themselves have rather small warheads. The warheads are about 800 grammes and the HE content is less than half a kilogramme so in effect they are the equivelent of 1 or two hand grenades per rocket which barely justifies their cost with body armour and the proliferation of light armoured vehicles the 57mm S-5 is pretty much gone from the rocket inventory.

    Just because they are going to use Ugroza doesn't mean all their rockets will have the guidance package applied. For dispersed targets like unarmoured troops in the open the unguided dumb model rocket gives a good spread of explosive over an area rapidly. Obviously the Illumination model rockets wont need guidance and nor will the chaff and flare equipped rockets either. The decoy rocket for the 122mm rocket pod will not need an Ugroza guidance package either.
    The High explosive and the Anti Armour rockets will benefit greatly from guidance and being able to loft them at the target for maximum standoff range will make the launch platform much safer.

    The book I got most of my information about the system lists the Ugroza package with the ATGMs and it has a drawing showing an Su-27 with its nose up and banking away with 4 flight paths leading away from it. The initial portion of the flight path is smooth while the terminal phase has zig zags to show the homing phase and it shows a laser designator on the ground in radio contact with the aircraft.
    The targets depicted are some sort of armoured bunker, an M1 Abrams tank sowing frontal and top attack flight profiles and an Apache helicopter.

    As I mentioned the penetration and fragmentation performance is greatly dependant on which rocket model is used. Obviously a 4kg HEAT from an 80mm rocket against an Abrams would require a top attack diving profile to have a good chance of disabling the target, whereas the 125kg HEAT warhead from an S-24 240mm calibre rocket should be quite effective. Without guidance with a HE Frag warhead against area targets the latters effective range was only about 2-3km, but with terminal guidance and a lofted trajectory it could hit point targets at three times that distance and this at a fraction of the cost of a much more expensive ATGM.
    It is a great idea as long as it remains relatively cheap.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:54 am

    BTW the range figures for Ugroza are for low level launch by helos and CAS like the Su-25. From a big high altitude UCAV you could fit it with 8-10 rocket pods of different types and have a much much smaller UAV flying lower designating targets for it. The smaller target designation UAVs could be made very cheap and disposable as for most uses it will be the only thing those on the ground will see or hear or have a chance of hitting.

    Vladimir79
    Grand Marshal
    Grand Marshal

    Posts : 2193
    Points : 3099
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:14 pm

    A UAV like that is 10-15 years away for China. They still have no indigenous turbofans. Still have to import from Ukraine and Russia. The biggest thing they do not have is high bandwidth satellites needed for its control over long distances. That will take 10-15 years for them to get 3rd generation SATCOM.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:49 am

    I agree.

    It will also be some time for Russia to get such capability too, but many of the required technologies can be introduced now and will be of benefit now.

    In fact the small disposable UAVs carried by the Ka-52 in a box mounted underwing would be ideal for the purpose. The large UCAV could carry a dozen internally and when it spots a target or several targets worth attacking and there are no other platforms able to mark the target with a laser it could release a disposable UAV to fly down and lase the target. Of course new lasers like the one fitted to the Mig-35 can lase targets 20km+ away so fitting that to the high altitude UCAV could mean that it could lase its own targets.
    Added to that it could use the laser for precise location of the target and using its own position calculate the position of the target and put those coordinates into a small satellite guided bomb... perhaps an FAB-50 or so for small point targets.
    The FAB-50 is a compact stubby bomb that could be carried internally in large numbers.
    With GLONASS guidance it would be accurate enough to be effective yet small enough to not kill everything in the area.

    Russian Patriot
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1168
    Points : 2062
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 25
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Chinese UAVs

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun May 12, 2013 4:09 am



    The Chinese military is making preparations for the inaugural flight test of its newly designed unmanned combat vehicle, bringing the Asian powerhouse into the stealth technology race, Chinese media report.

    China’s first unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), known as the Lijian ('sharp sword'), is designed jointly by the Hongdu Aviation Industry Group and Shenyang Aviation Corporation. The project was launched in 2009 and the drone's first ground test was conducted on December 13 last year.

    The Lijian, which makes China the third country to possess stealth drone capabilities, is now ready for flight testing, China Aviation News reported on Friday.

    The Chinese UAV is designed for use by the PLA Air Force and Navy Air Force for combat missions, China Aviation News reported. It may also be used for tracking and reconnaissance along China’s lengthy and occasionally contentious border.

    Beijing’s ambitious efforts at developing its drone capabilities have not escaped the attention of Taiwan, which has quarreled with Beijing in the past over questions of sovereignty and national identity.

    “Taiwan should be concerned about China’s development of large numbers of sophisticated military UAVs,” Ian Easton, a research fellow at the Project 2049 Institute, told the Taipei Times.

    China’s stealth drone is third such unmanned combat vehicle in existence, after the X-47 designed by the United States, and the nEUROn, a collaborative effort of various EU companies.

    The nEUROn was launched in 2005 following an order by the French Defense Procurement Agency. The program is a collaborative effort between French, Italian, Swedish, Spanish, Greek and Swiss defense companies.

    The US Pentagon’s X-47 stealth drone, designed by Northrop Grumman, began as part of DARPA's J-UCAS program, and is now part of the US Navy's UCAS-D (Unmanned Combat Air System Demonstration) program. The X-47 is still undergoing flight testing.

    The unveiling of the prototype places the People’s Republic of China ahead of several nations in the development of stealth drone technology.

    India, Iran, Israel, Italy, Sweden and Russia also have their own stealth UAV programs.

    http://rt.com/news/china-military-drone-stealth-russia-142/

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:46 pm

    China Conducts Test Flight of Largest Domestic Drone


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  George1 on Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:19 am

    China Unveils Next-Generation Wing Loong II Drone

    Chinese defense contractor Chengdu Aircraft Corporation unveiled its second-generation Wing Loong II unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) at the biennial Beijing Air Show earlier this month.

    The platform resembles the MQ-9 Reaper high-altitude long-endurance UCAV, which is manufactured by American firm General Atomics primarily for the US Air Force, IHS Jane's 360 reported.

    Photographs published earlier this year on Chinese websites suggest that flight-testing of the Wing Loong has already begun.

    While the UCAV is likely to be exported under the name Wing Loong II, the drone can be expected to enter the People's Liberation Army Air Force alongside the smaller Chengdu GJ-1/Wing Loong.

    Like the MQ-9 Reaper, the Wing Loong is powered by a single pusher turboprop engine; places its satellite communication system and primary optical system in the nose; and employs large V-stabilizers with a smaller vertical stabilizer below the empennage, IHS Jane's reported.

    While the UCAVs are nearly identical in size, their performance differs – most likely due to their respective engines.

    The MQ-9 has a maximum speed of 300 miles per hour and can reach a max altitude of 50,000 feet. The Wing Loong II has a maximum speed of 230 miles per hour and can reach an altitude of 30,000 feet.

    They also differ greatly in their external payload. The MQ-9 can carry 3,085 pounds, while the Wing Loong II can carry 1,060 pounds.

    A brochure image shows the Wing Loong II carrying 12 air-to-surface missiles. Multiple Chinese companies have developed families of UCAV weapons, including precision-guided missiles, bombs and air-to-air missiles, IHS Jane's reported.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150918/1027216738.html#ixzz3m8RTqHzP


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  max steel on Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:24 pm

    China reveals data on VD200 flying-wing VTUAV






    China's Chengdu Aircraft Research and Design Institute (CARDI) revealed more details about its VD200 flying-wing vertical take-off unmanned aerial vehicle (VTUAV) on Chinese state television on 22 March.

    A flying-wing configuration offers storage and performance advantages over similarly sized helicopter-configured VTUAVs.

    Propelled by twin 2 m diameter rotors, the flying wing design allows the UAV to take off and land vertically, transitioning into and out of horizontal flight. The VD200 was first seen in model form at an October 2013 international trade fair in Chengdu, China. The latest television coverage shows what may be a scaled-down prototype under construction in a Chengdu Aircraft Corporation hanger.

    A promotional video first seen in January 2015 gave basic dimension and performance data: a wingspan of 4.6 m, a length of 1.8 m, a weight of 200 kg, and a payload of 20 kg. The VD200 can fly at up to 260 km/h out to a radius of 150 km or for up to three hours.

    The VD200 has an optical/laser designator payload. The land version is carried by a transporter vehicle accompanied by a command/control vehicle, both made by Dongfeng Motors. It is shown in the video in a stationary hover, designating targets with its laser.

    A naval version is also shown in the video providing over-the-horizon surveillance and targeting data.

    In late 2015, Northrop Grumman was selected to develop a larger flying-wing VTUAV under the Tactically Exploited Reconnaissance Node (TERN) programme of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) of the US Department of Defense.

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:57 pm

    China details CH-901 UAV and loitering munition



    China's Poly Defense has provided details about its CH-901 man-portable tube launched unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and loitering munition, similar in concept to the US AeroVironment Switchblade.

    The CH-901 designation likely means it is a product of the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC).

    A Poly official said it has been in development for "several years" and that both versions have been acquired by China's People's Liberation Army. This official added that while "several friendly countries" have shown interest, there have been no foreign sales so far.

    One operating system weighs 45 kg and consists of three UAVs, one launch tube and a laptop computer control system. It is man-portable or can be carried by a small SUV.

    The 1.2 m length aircraft weighs 9 kg, flies at a speed of 150 km/hr and has an operating radius of 15 km or a search endurance of 120 minutes.

    Its small search and tracking camera is able to detect targets out to 2 km. The electric motor is credited with "low noise" that helps concealment. The aircraft has a life span of 20 sorties or 10 years.

    Poly officials declined to provide details about the warhead of the loitering munition version.

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:01 pm

    CHINA HAS A NEW ARMED DRONE HELICOPTER-SKY SAKER H300




                     An anti-tank missile fires by an Iraqi CH-4 drone destroys an ISIS artillery piece, seen in footage captured by the drone's onboard, retractable sensor turret.



    China's armed CH-3 and CH-4 drones have recently made international news, being used by nations that range from Iraq to Nigeria. And now NORINCO, one of China's leading defense contractors, is getting in on the international drone export game, showing off a new armed drone helicopter.

    Unveiled at the International Exhibition of National Security and Resilience in Dubai, NORINCO's Sky Saker is a coaxial rotor, 100-200kg helicopter UCAV. The Sky Saker H300's cameras include electro-optical and infrared systems, along with laser target designators. In addition to surveillance and fire control, the Sky Saker H300 can provide midcourse corrections for guided munitions launched by other platforms, such as cruise missiles from H-6K bombers or shells fired from PLZ-05 howitzers. The Sky Saker H300's ground control station is likely to be networked to a wider array of Chinese military systems for integrated fire effect, which would make it not only a valuable asset for counterinsurgency and urban combat, but also for wider missions like hunting enemy small ships (such as the Taiwanese Tuo stealth boat) or electronic warfare vehicles.



    The Sky Saker has two missile launch tubes mounted on the fuselage sides; given that those missiles are "fire and forget", they are likely a version of the HJ-10 anti-tank missiles, which already arms the Z-10 attack helicopters, or even smaller 16kg TL-2 missiles.

    Just as Chinese conventional drones like the CH-4 have already made their mark in Middle Eastern conflict, the H-300 could soon see even more export and combat opportunities. Smaller, cheaper and with vertical take off capabilities that make it ideal for operating in urban and austere environments like jungles, this little robot helicopter would herald a new phase in the proliferation of armed robots.

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  max steel on Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:45 pm

    THE GREAT UNDERWATER WALL OF ROBOTS: CHINESE EXHIBIT SHOWS OFF SEA DRONES



    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:48 am

    China’s supersized ‘Xianglong’ surveillance drone gets ready to soar


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:05 am

    Chinese UAVs in Army-2016 forum

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2125487.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    Sponsored content

    Re: Chinese UAVs

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:01 pm


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:01 pm