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    Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

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    Viktor
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    Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  Viktor on Fri May 03, 2013 8:10 pm

    Excellent Russian documentary about performance of airdefense systems in Vietnam.

    English subtitles included  Very Happy  


    Viktor
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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:00 pm

    Day of Defense - February 20, 1975 was established a national holiday - Day of the Defense Forces. "Defense Day" is celebrated every year in Russia, on the second Sunday of April

    On the day 24.07.1965... Russian PVO troops scored its first combat kills ... (3 out of 4 Phantoms flying in the formation wanished from the sky)








    During the war Russian PVO missile troops shoot down 1300 US aircrafts including 54 B-52 bombers.

    LINK

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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  Giulio on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:08 am

    In the second picture from the bottom there is an F-105 (it seems to me an F-105D). The SA-2 looks small because the missile lost its first stage shortly after the launch.
    The F-100 (the "Hun") and the F-105 (the "Thud") weren't suitable for the "wild weasel": being a big supersonic fighter the F-100 and a very big supersonic tactical nuclear bomber the F-105.
    Only the proper training and courage saved many pilots. The losses of the F-105s in the Vietnam war (afaik) were about 50% of the aircrafts.
    The things improved only with the electronics and the two-seater F-105G, with AGM-45 and AGM-78 and then the F-4E.
    The SAMs defenses of the North Vietnam (afaik) were primarily against B-52 raids. The "wild-weasel" missions (USAF) and the "iron-hand" missions of the US Navy served to protect the bombers.
    The US Navy was in a better condition than the USAF, because the Navy had teh A-4 Skyhawk, and then the A-6 Intruder, day and night, all-weather bomber.
    Afaik the first "wild weasel" mission (or SEAD) in South East Asia took place in Laos, on june 9 1964, when an F-100D destroyed with Mk-82R "snake eye" and its cannons some AAA positions in the Plain of Jars , protecting a rescue mission for a downed RF-8 pilots.
    The bigger limit of the F-100 and of the F-105 was the endurance: this required some in flight refueling for reach the North Vietnam (afaik, the F-100 was never used on the North Vietnam).
    In addition, the U.S. had to share their attack plans with the South Vietnamese Forces: absurd! Because many men in South Vietnam were in the service of the North.
    In conclusion, an absurd war, for incomprehensible reasons, with an incredible foolish treatment of veterans when they return back home.

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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:27 am

    The US Navy was in a better condition than the USAF, because the Navy had teh A-4 Skyhawk, and then the A-6 Intruder, day and night, all-weather bomber.


    The USAF did catch up and overtake the navy... thanks to the navy.

    The F-111 was originally designed as a carrier based super fighter interceptor but was found to be much too heavy for the role.

    The result for the Air Force was a long range strike aircraft with a small fault in the tail design that cost a few planes and pilots but ended up being an excellent strike aircraft, while for the Navy the radar and missiles developed for the F-111 eventually saw service in the F-14.


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    Giulio
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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  Giulio on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:49 pm

    Yes, but the F-111 was an interdiction fighter. The news were the all-weather, low level, terrain following capability and the long range capability, that allowed to reach the North Vietnam without in flight refueling. But the F-111 wasn't for the wild weasel missions. So, for both F-111s and wild weasels needed ECM aircrafts like the EB-66, or EA-6A.
    The greater weight of the wild weasel missions during all the aerial offensive over the years in the Vietnam war fell on the F-105 and A-6 crews.
    At least three wings of F-105D were deployed to Thailand with their squadrons: the 355° TFW based at Takhli (tail codes JE, RE, RK, RM, RU), the 23° TFW (tail codes MD, ME, MF MG), and the famous 388° TFW (codes JB, JE, JJ, JV, WW and ZB), with their famous "shark mouths" on the nose, in Korat.
    The F-105G faced the most powerful and lethal combination of anti-aircraft defenses of the History. An F-105G pilot, a poker fan, calculated that it was impossible not to be downed at least once, going beyond the seventy-fifth mission over the North Vietnam.

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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  BlackArrow on Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:39 pm

    Viktor wrote:

    During the war Russian PVO missile troops shoot down 1300 US aircrafts including 54 B-52 bombers.

    LINK

    Russian troops did not shoot down 1300 US aircraft. The overwhelming majority were shot down by Vietnamese nationals. You need to retranslate that man's blog.

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    Vietnam War :The Soviet Evaluation of Operation LINEBACKER II, December 1972

    Post  nemrod on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:04 pm

    During the Vietnam war, the SA-2 Guideline  successfully downed 1.500 US air aircrafts.

    Selon les données du ministère de la Défense de l’URSS, 60 divisions de missiles S-75 abattirent dans le ciel du Vietnam près de 1 500 avions américains.

    Here is an interresting point of view of soviet responsibles about Linebacker II. It shows how NVA managed to downed nearly 90 US aircrafts above the sky the Vietnam, how it was an incredible US disaster regarding either political, geostrategical, and military goals.
    It shows how heroic was the people of Vietnam, how heroic the help of soviet, and chinese advisors. Anyway, I suspect many soviet pilots had participated to destroy several US fighters. Moreover, many soviet advisors were behind SAM batteires. No wonder, how they were efficient.
    Moreover U can notice that the KGB evaluated that for 8 sam shoot, one B-52 downed.



    http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/patterns-and-predictability.pdf


    1
    PATTERNS AND PREDICTABILITY: THE SOVIET EVALUATION OF OPERATION LINEBACKER II
    by
    Dana Drenkowski and Lester W. Grau
    The opinions expressed are those of the authors and their sources and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Department of Defense or the US Army
    1972 was President Richard M. Nixon’s winter of discontent. Although elected to bring peace to Southeast Asia, Congress and his own Secretary of Defense were trying to tie his hands in dealing with a stubborn North Vietnam. Nixon was trying to extricate the US from the war with dignity. Nixon wanted North Vietnamese guarantees that the South Vietnamese government would be left intact, that all fighting in Indo-China would end, that northern infiltration into the South Vietnam would cease, that North Vietnam would withdraw from Laos and Cambodia, that U.S. prisoners of war would be returned and that US missing in action would be accounted for.1 North Vietnam’s negotiators had walked out of the Paris Peace talks and were refusing to return, figuring that U.S. politics would force Nixon to abandon South Vietnam and the POWs without any concessions on their part. Congress was recessed, but when they returned from the Christmas recess, they were expected to force Nixon into unilateral withdrawal by stopping all funds for the war. Nixon’s position looked untenable, but he decided to launch a massive bomber strike against Hanoi to force the North Vietnamese back to negotiations before Congress could reconvene. The bomber campaign was named Operation Linebacker II.
    Linebacker II remains a controversial operation. The USAF Strategic Air Command (SAC) made some serious mistakes, suffered serious losses and their campaign came close to failure, yet after the war they launched a massive media and public relations blitz (and internal witch hunt) to prove that Linebacker II was an unqualified success that unfolded as planned. The North Vietnamese, glorying in their unprecedented destruction of USAF B-52 bombers, hailed Linebacker II as the “Dien Bien Phu of the Air”–despite their heavy losses to the bombers. Incredibly, the most-objective observers and commentators of Linebacker II may be the Soviet advisers attached to the North Vietnamese air defense forces. They recorded their observations in official after-action reports which remained classified and inaccessible until recently. They provide a professional assessment of both belligerents during Linebacker II.
    ........


    nemrod
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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  nemrod on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:27 pm

    To Viktor
    Viktor wrote:Excellent Russian documentary about performance of airdefense systems in Vietnam.

    English subtitles included  Very Happy  


    Could you please repost, it seems to be a dead link.

    Viktor
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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  Viktor on Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:52 am

    Here you go Nemrod - enjoy

    Dance with Death

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRSYZpRFt4

    nemrod
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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  nemrod on Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:10 pm

    Viktor wrote:Here you go Nemrod - enjoy

    Dance with Death

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRSYZpRFt4

    Thank you very very very much Viktor, thumbsup
    I immediatly download it.
    If you have more documents like this, please do not hesitate to post. Iam looking for soviet/russian pov about :
    - Vietnam war
    - October 1973 -impossible to find any russian or soviet views-
    - Lebanon war in 1982
    - Desert Storm 1991
    - Serbia's war in 1999
    - Iraq :Incidents in no fly zone between 1991-2002: For example one Iraqi Mig-25 dodged nearly 10 air to air missiles -AMRAAM- launched from F-15 C, F-16 C, F-18 and F-14 in 1990's.
    - Invasion of Iraq in 2003.
    If you have multimedia like this document, or if you have websites in english, or in french.
    thumbsup

    Thx again. thumbsup

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    Re: Vietnam War: Soviet Air Defence systems

    Post  max steel on Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:51 am

    So far the Electronic Warfare made life more "interesting" for the SAM operators, but with experience and luck, they were still able to achieve...
    ... but it changed during the next year of the Vietnamese war, 1967.

    US EW agencies found out the frequency of the SA-75MK Dvina (SA-2B/F) missile beacon, and it turned out to be in a narrow 20MHz range.
    TAC immediately started to send planes with two QRC-160-1/1A pods, where one pod was solely dedicated for the missile beacon noise jamming.
    For several months, all missiles were lost right after launch.

    A new rule was enforced that before launch, the missile beacon channel should be checked for jamming.
    If jamming was present, it was forbidden to launch.



    As the situation become critical, Soviet experts were called in to find out and test the solution.
    During 1969, Technical Bulletin-1 was released to all Soviet allies using the SA-75MK Dvina system.



    It introduced several modifications:

    - Adding the H<1 switch by modifying the missile guidance electronic, reducing the minimum effective altitude into 500m.
    - Adding the RAB.po.K3 switch, in case of radio proxy fuse jamming. (this was feared by the Soviets, but never happened)
    - Adding the PA-00 cabin "doghouse" at the top of the RSNA cabin for visual target tracking, in dense jamming environment.
    - Adding the APP-75M instrument, to make launch calculations automatic.
    - V-750VK missile FR-I5AK beacon output was increased from 20W into 80W.

    After this bulletin was implemented, the beacon jamming become ineffective, and TAC stopped using it.
    Quite interesting, that SAC never received hint of this modification, so the B-52 bombers were still trying to jam the missile beacon in 1972, using up valuable jammers for nothing.

    Still in the same year (1967), the QRC-160 become official.

    QRC-160-1/1A E band Barrage Noise Jamming pod become the AN/ALQ-71, capable of jamming the S-25 Berkut (SA-1), SA-75MK Dvina (SA-2A/B/F), and the SON4, SON9 AAA systems.



    QRC-160-2 I band Barrage Noise Jamming pod become the AN/ALQ-72, capable of jamming the S-125 Neva (SA-3) system.This pod was sent into the Vietnam War, but was never flown operationally proving that the S-125 Neva (SA-3) was never used by the Nort Vietnamese during the war.



    QRC-160-8 D..G band Barrage Noise Jamming pod become the AN/ALQ-87, capable of jamming the S-75 Desna (SA-2C), S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) beside the systems already covered by the AN/ALQ-71.



    The NAVY also prepared to face new Soviet SAM equipment in Vietnam, by fielding the AN/ALQ-49 G/H band Angle Deception Jamming System, against the expected S-75 Desna (SA-2C) and the S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) system.
    It complemented the already fielded AN/ALQ-51.


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