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    Infantry Mobility Vehicles

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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:09 am

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    Unusual variant of Tigr used by MVD/FSB spotted some months ago in Southern parts of Russia *cough* *cough*
    I had a video of that in operation (probably in the same place) that a friend sent me a while back. Damned if I can find it now.

    Here you go:
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    Militarov

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Militarov on Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:15 am

    Arctic_Fox wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    Unusual variant of Tigr used by MVD/FSB spotted some months ago in Southern parts of Russia *cough* *cough*
    I had a video of that in operation (probably in the same place) that a friend sent me a while back. Damned if I can find it now.

    Here you go:

    Ye that video was shared on Multimedia thread few months ago.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:36 am

    Arctic_Fox wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    Unusual variant of Tigr used by MVD/FSB spotted some months ago in Southern parts of Russia *cough* *cough*
    I had a video of that in operation (probably in the same place) that a friend sent me a while back. Damned if I can find it now.

    Here you go:
    Thanks Arctic. That is indeed the one.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  eehnie on Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:26 am

    For reconnaissance roles, I do not think this kind of light utility vehicles have a chance. The reconnaissance work is changing fast, and the old way to do the job is being surpassed by the new aerial unmanned technology.

    It has been announced that the tanks of the Armata platform will be equiped with drones (likely small to very small, but also likely more than one).

    The future reconnaissance vehicles will be one step above this (in the refered to reconaissance). Surely it will not be a small vehicle with a drone or two. The reconaissance vehicles in the future will be likely mobile stations of decent size for the control of multiple drones working at same time. The Typhoon-U and the Typhoon-K can take also this role with a crew of drone operators.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  eehnie on Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:32 am

    franco wrote:Army to order some of the new Skorpion vehicles for testing with the Spetsnaz and Reconnaissance units.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1436755.html

    https://defencerussia.wordpress.com/2015/08/18/corporation-zaschita-to-supply-the-defense-ministry-with-armored-vehicles-party-skorpion-lsha-2b/

    Some of this news has been finally confirmed?
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    eehnie

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  eehnie on Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:49 pm

    Benya wrote:A bit more detailed article about the concept of the "superlight brigade".


    Russian armed forces have created a new superlight infantry battalion equipped with UAZ Patriot

    A superlight infantry battalion has been formed in the Samara Region. It is unique as far as the Russian Armed Forces are concerned. The unit shall operate UAZ Patriot wheeled vehicles mounting Kalashnikov machineguns, the press office of the Central Military District told journalists.


    Russian-made UAZ-3163 Patriot 4x4 light tactical vehicle

    "Building on the lessons learnt from the fighting of recent years, a superlight infantry battalion has been stood up. It is the first unit of the kind ever in the Russian Armed Forces," the press office said.

    The UAZ Patriots in the battalion’s inventory will be equipped with 7.62-mm Kalashnikov machineguns and other weapons as required. Around 90 Patriots are due to the brigade the battalion reports to before the end of the year.

    The activation of the battalion will boost the brigade’s mobility by several times on military operations in urbanized terrain and enable it to raid the enemy’s flanks and unprotected positions with lightning speed. The unit’s personnel are receiving tactical training and conducting range practice at the Roshchinsky Training Area in the Samara Region while waiting for the arrival of their new materiel.

    The newly infantry brigade of the Central Military District was formed in the Samara Region on November 30. It comprises infantry, field artillery, scout, combat engineer and other units. Its manning with enlisted personnel is under way.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russian_armed_forces_has_created_a_new_superlight_infantry_battalion_equipped_with_uaz_patriot_tass_11412161.html



    Well, those support units of the brigade (field artillery, combat engineer), would need heavier equipment no matter what. These UAZ Patriots are indeed looking like technicals (no armor, no heavy weapons (except ATGMs maybe), so I totally agree with VladimirSahin's statement. In my opinion, the only viable task for this type of units would be COIN (counter-insurgency), but only with a bit heavier vehicles like the Typhoon-series, since these UAZ Patriots do not offer adequate mine/IED and projectile protection.

    Quoting the article from other topic, to have here another of the options for infantry mobility vehicles being considered.

    For me the Typhoon 6x6 are far superior to all the rest for combat roles.

    Smaller vehicles are enough for light utility roles out of combat areas, or to work with the security forces in the internal security.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:19 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    Benya wrote:.........

    Well, those support units of the brigade (field artillery, combat engineer), would need heavier equipment no matter what. These UAZ Patriots are indeed looking like technicals (no armor, no heavy weapons (except ATGMs maybe), so I totally agree with VladimirSahin's statement. In my opinion, the only viable task for this type of units would be COIN (counter-insurgency), but only with a bit heavier vehicles like the Typhoon-series, since these UAZ Patriots do not offer adequate mine/IED and projectile protection.

    Quoting the article from other topic, to have here another of the options for infantry mobility vehicles being considered.

    For me the Typhoon 6x6 are far superior to all the rest for combat roles.

    Smaller vehicles are enough for light utility roles out of combat areas, or to work with the security forces in the internal security.


    And this is same discussion we had over bikes and ATVs.

    Those UAZ Patriots are NOT technicals. They are mode of transportation.

    You do not engage the enemy in Patriots. You approach the enemy's general location in them and then dismount and then proceed on foot to engage the enemy.

    Using Typhoons for this role is pointless because they are slow, complex and cost as much as full IFVs while being inferior to them in all aspects.

    You will never sneak up on anyone in Typhoon 6x6. And you will never leave quickly in it.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:23 pm

    Arctic_Fox wrote:K4386 "Typhoon VDV":

    Remote controlled turret has 2A42M now.
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    franco

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:25 pm

    Some more information has come out on the new brigade being formed. It appears 2 battalions to operate using Patriots and 1 battalion to operate in BTR-82A's.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2328591.html

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    Benya

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Benya on Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    Benya wrote:.........

    Well, those support units of the brigade (field artillery, combat engineer), would need heavier equipment no matter what. These UAZ Patriots are indeed looking like technicals (no armor, no heavy weapons (except ATGMs maybe), so I totally agree with VladimirSahin's statement. In my opinion, the only viable task for this type of units would be COIN (counter-insurgency), but only with a bit heavier vehicles like the Typhoon-series, since these UAZ Patriots do not offer adequate mine/IED and projectile protection.

    Quoting the article from other topic, to have here another of the options for infantry mobility vehicles being considered.

    For me the Typhoon 6x6 are far superior to all the rest for combat roles.

    Smaller vehicles are enough for light utility roles out of combat areas, or to work with the security forces in the internal security.


    And this is same discussion we had over bikes and ATVs.

    Those UAZ Patriots are NOT technicals. They are mode of transportation.

    You do not engage the enemy in Patriots. You approach the enemy's general location in them and then dismount and then proceed on foot to engage the enemy.

    Using Typhoons for this role is pointless because they are slow, complex and cost as much as full IFVs while being inferior to them in all aspects.

    You will never sneak up on anyone in Typhoon 6x6. And you will never leave quickly in it.

    Well yes, you are right. I was just wondering that how these UAZ Patriots will act in case of an armed conflict. Well, the 6x6 Typhoons are too heavy indeed, but I was thinking about 4x4 vehicles like the "Tigr" or the "Rys". My point was that what if a Patriot-equipped unit - God forbid - gets ambushed and whatnot.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:48 pm

    Benya wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:............


    And this is same discussion we had over bikes and ATVs.

    Those UAZ Patriots are NOT technicals. They are mode of transportation.

    You do not engage the enemy in Patriots. You approach the enemy's general location in them and then dismount and then proceed on foot to engage the enemy.

    Using Typhoons for this role is pointless because they are slow, complex and cost as much as full IFVs while being inferior to them in all aspects.

    You will never sneak up on anyone in Typhoon 6x6. And you will never leave quickly in it.

    Well yes, you are right. I was just wondering that how these UAZ Patriots will act in case of an armed conflict. Well, the 6x6 Typhoons are too heavy indeed, but I was thinking about 4x4 vehicles like the "Tigr" or the "Rys". My point was that what if a Patriot-equipped unit - God forbid - gets ambushed and whatnot.


    Getting ambushed is always the possibility of course but fun part is that purpose of these units is to ambush the enemy themselves. Cool

    Basically they have vehicles to save them footwork.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:57 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Benya wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:............


    And this is same discussion we had over bikes and ATVs.

    Those UAZ Patriots are NOT technicals. They are mode of transportation.

    You do not engage the enemy in Patriots. You approach the enemy's general location in them and then dismount and then proceed on foot to engage the enemy.

    Using Typhoons for this role is pointless because they are slow, complex and cost as much as full IFVs while being inferior to them in all aspects.

    You will never sneak up on anyone in Typhoon 6x6. And you will never leave quickly in it.

    Well yes, you are right. I was just wondering that how these UAZ Patriots will act in case of an armed conflict. Well, the 6x6 Typhoons are too heavy indeed, but I was thinking about 4x4 vehicles like the "Tigr" or the "Rys". My point was that what if a Patriot-equipped unit - God forbid - gets ambushed and whatnot.


    Getting ambushed is always the possibility of course but fun part is that purpose of these units is to ambush the enemy themselves.  Cool

    Basically they have vehicles to save them footwork.

    Patriots once again seem to be a working in progress from what Russia learns in Syria (and Ukraine) and the small wars in its periphery (NK, Ossetia), Typhoon style Strykers worked A-OK in Iraq, until the EFP's became commonplace. So basically the Typhoons will be part of the button-up game in select situations where you would need Heavy UV's, MRAPS and armored trucks.

    Also Typhoons running 110 kmh is (marginally) faster than the usual 50/60MPH MRAPS used to patrol in Iraq and parts of Afghanistan.
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    Benya

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Benya on Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:30 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Getting ambushed is always the possibility of course but fun part is that purpose of these units is to ambush the enemy themselves.  Cool

    Basically they have vehicles to save them footwork.

    So, "park the car, sneak upon the enemy, hit and then run" would be the ideal tactic.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Patriots once again seem to be a working in progress from what Russia learns in Syria (and Ukraine) and the small wars in its periphery (NK, Ossetia), Typhoon style Strykers worked A-OK in Iraq, until the EFP's became commonplace. So basically the Typhoons will be part of the button-up game in select situations where you would need Heavy UV's, MRAPS and armored trucks.

    Also Typhoons running 110 kmh is (marginally) faster than the usual 50/60MPH  MRAPS used to patrol in Iraq and parts of Afghanistan.

    That's more like it. thumbsup . I'm curious about the tactics and capabilities of these type of units, but we have to wait until a large military exercise to see their combat potential unfold.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  eehnie on Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:26 pm

    Well sorry but if I would be in the attacked side, I promise you to wait not until the attacking unit parks their Patriots and prepares to attack me. I would receive them warmly. This is the reality. And the same if they go with other light semiarmoured vehicles that are not passing the tests as combat vehicles. There is some reason why they have as many troubles with the tests. Then better if you park out of the range of the portable/man-portable weapons (until 8.8Km in Russian units + 120mm rocket assisted projectiles) that I can have.

    Between the smaller semiarmoured and unarmoured vehicles that have not enough protection I can understand that the faster is the winner. More still if the faster is between the cheapests. Then I can understand that the Patriot is not in a bad position between the entire bench:

    GAZ 2330 Tigr
    Iveco LMV
    UAZ 3163 Patriot

    GAZ 3937 Vodnik
    KAMAZ 43269 BPM-97 Vystrel
    Skorpion 2M
    Trecol 39294
    Typhoon 4x4
    Falkatus

    These vehicles are good for light utility roles (mainly transport) in non contested areas. Also for the clasical roles of the security forces, like small combat with internal militias and organizations without heavy warfare and without the best portable/man-portable weapons. But are plagued of problems by weakness for combat environments. Even to do transport in areas contested by armies with decent warfare and organization.

    With the Typhoon 6x6 the history is different. In urban environments the Patriots can play with the building protection, but still, I would not take this way. Still can be destroyed but the people inside have significantly bigger chance of surviving. This is key in contested areas.

    PS: To apply the lessons learned in combat in Syria, it is necessary to take into account that the Syrian war is by nature a civil war (internal war, with only limited external support). The Syrian opposition is not armed in the level of an official army. This is why some tactics work.


    Last edited by eehnie on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:29 am


    Things are really getting crazy out there:


    BliTTzZ

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  BliTTzZ on Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Things are really getting crazy out there:

    Hm, interesting. If remember correctly 30mm automated module already exists for Tiger. Can't see the difference yet.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:24 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Things are really getting crazy out there:


    Full video:

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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:50 pm

    Can anyone id this vehicle?


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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:10 pm

    Arctic_Fox wrote:Can anyone id this vehicle?



    CAN AM Commander MAX MTV. This should be the XT model.

    http://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/commander.html
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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:37 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Arctic_Fox wrote:Can anyone id this vehicle?



    CAN AM Commander MAX MTV. This should be the XT model.

    http://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/commander.html

    Thank you Kotemore Very Happy

    Hope that Russia one day produce such vehicle class, im sure Stels can do it.
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    franco

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  franco on Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:32 pm

    Russian Airborne recon have similar type vehicles ^^^. Pictures were posted on here somewhere over the past couple of years.
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    George1

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:19 pm

    GAZ-39371 "Vodnik" in Syria



    _________________
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:47 pm

    Arctic_Fox wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:......

    CAN AM Commander MAX MTV. This should be the XT model.

    http://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/commander.html

    Thank you Kotemore Very Happy

    Hope that Russia one day produce such vehicle class, im sure Stels can do it.

    Stels already does and I have seen at least two more manufacturers with similar products. It's just that this particular unit is using these models.

    Russian military is more into ATVs, snowmobiles and dirt bikes than buggies.



    George1 wrote:GAZ-39371 "Vodnik" in Syria

    ....

    Excellent. These things were not up to standard for RU military but this way they can offload them and put them to use.

    I see some Typhoon and Boomerang contracts in the near future.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  eehnie on Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:43 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Arctic_Fox wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:......

    CAN AM Commander MAX MTV. This should be the XT model.

    http://can-am.brp.com/off-road/side-by-side/commander.html

    Thank you Kotemore Very Happy

    Hope that Russia one day produce such vehicle class, im sure Stels can do it.

    Stels already does and I have seen at least two more manufacturers with similar products. It's just that this particular unit is using these models.

    Russian military is more into ATVs, snowmobiles and dirt bikes than buggies.



    George1 wrote:GAZ-39371 "Vodnik" in Syria

    ....

    Excellent. These things were not up to standard for RU  military but this way they can offload them and put them to use.

    I see some Typhoon and Boomerang contracts in the near future.

    In fact I do not think the Vodnik has been in the Russian Armed Forces (yes in the Security Forces). The alone doubt is with some Spetznaz unit of the transfered to the Army, but I do not think the Vodnik were included in the transference and entered in the Russian Armed Forces this way, despite some reports.

    Between the recent vehicles, the alone with confirmed presence in the Russian Armed Forces would be:

    GAZ 2330 Tigr
    Iveco LMV
    UAZ 3163 Patriot

    While the rest would have not been included until now:

    GAZ 3937 Vodnik
    KAMAZ 43269 BPM-97 Vystrel
    Skorpion 2M
    Trecol 39294
    Typhoon 4x4
    Falkatus


    Last edited by eehnie on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Militarov

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Militarov on Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:54 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    While the rest would have not been included until now:

    GAZ 3937 Vodnik
    KAMAZ 43269 BPM-97 Vystrel
    Skorpion 2M
    Trecol 39294
    Typhoon 4x4
    Falkatus

    GAZ 3937 Vodnik and BPM-97 Vystrel have been already seen in Syria used by Syrians.

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    Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

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