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    MiG-35 vs Rafale

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    Austin
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    MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:37 pm

    Since i like both the aircraft and I was just wondering if both ever ended up in Close Dog Fight which aircraft would have a higher chance of winning.

    Would like to know how does Rafale and Mig-35 flying quality fare up against each other , Things like STR ,ITR , Rate of Climb , Speed etc.

    Rafale latest version seems to be F3 while Mig-35 will come with RD-33MKM engine with 9.5T of Thrust each.

    GarryB
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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:01 pm

    With TVC engines I would put my money on the Mig-35 in close in dogfighting, but it would obviously be conditional on good pilots in both aircraft.

    Also the Mig-35 with current AAMs would be dangerous, but when the air launched versions of Morphei and extended range model R-77 and RVV-BD are available I would expect the Mig-35 to do even better... which is not to say that Rafale is bad of course.


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    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:12 pm

    Can the R-74 and R-77 compete with the IRIS-T and meteor?

    gaurav
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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  gaurav on Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:15 pm

    What man..
    Total project cost 20billion usd to Indian exchequer.. for approx 126 jets..
    This is bizarre to say the least..
    That counts to
    200million usd for 1 rafale .. what is this .. God level #$%4..Thats all it is ..
    No need to think over it.. Sad


    yet another scam by Indian MOD..

    About capabilities.. cannot comment now

    Austin
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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:04 pm

    gaurav wrote:What man..
    Total project cost 20billion usd to Indian exchequer.. for approx 126 jets..

    The final cost of Rafale deal is yet to be determined but the $20 Billion cost includes the cost of 126 aircraft that are to be outright purchased and later built at HAL facility for say 12-15 years , plus it includes cost of TOT ,Lic Production building a new facility at HAL Bangalore to build the type.

    Also note French equipment is inherently costly , note the cost of upgrading Mirage-2000 for 52 aircraft cost $2.4 billion while cost of upgrading 60+ Mig-29 cost $950 million.

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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:49 am

    The final cost of Rafale deal is yet to be determined but the $20 Billion cost includes the cost of 126 aircraft that are to be outright purchased and later built at HAL facility for say 12-15 years , plus it includes cost of TOT ,Lic Production building a new facility at HAL Bangalore to build the type.


    MRCA will cost 20 billions only if the 50% option( +63 Rafale units for a grand total of 189 Dassault aircraft ) will be exerted by Indian MoD.



    Since i like both the aircraft and I was just wondering if both ever ended up in Close Dog Fight which aircraft would have a higher chance of winning.

    Would be important to choice a version of the two aircraft to attempt to make a similar comparison ,at example choose to take in consideration only the two seater versions (RafaleB and MiG-35D) or, instead, only single seater versions and ,for MiG-35, would also be crucial the choice between domestic or export version....

    Anyhow Rafale is a very very efficient multirole aircraft showing an high level of efficiency in almost any modern operational task and with very strong points in SEAD missions and area control.
    MiG-35 on the other side is more "role-specific" with pronounced qualities for area interdiction and DCA missions.
    Both show a very high level of survivability thanks to fearful EW defensive suit a low corner speed and enviable kinematical capabilities at transonic to mid-supersonic speed regimes.

    For comparison in WVR, instead, the most important element ,like rightfully pointed out by GarryB, would surely become the presence or not of TVC in MiG-35; it would surely represent a quickly unbalancing factor in similar engagements dwarfing , in influence on the outcome ,the effect of other parameters such as TWR or climb rate.




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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  Austin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:06 am

    Garry Mindstorm and every body thanks for replying.

    I am not sure if the Russian version of Mig-35 or Mig-29M2 will come with the 3D TVC ....thats yet to be seen.

    However 3D TVC will be very helpful in close combat , What they have said is Russian Mig will have higher thrust engine of RD-33MKM type each with 9.5T of thrust.

    Check this really nice video of Mig-35 and Rafale

    Mig-35 ------> http://youtu.be/LER_nq9viKM
    Rafale ------> http://youtu.be/19tscviy3uI

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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:55 pm

    3D TVC would be nice but 2D TVC is enough to make it a one sided dogfight.

    Very simply even 2D TVC allows the aircraft to point its nose at its target and fire its weapons allowing the shortest flight path for a kill... it doesn't matter if that means not moving very fast... in a TVC equipped aircraft there is no such thing as a stall, so getting guns and missiles on target first means you win.


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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  dionis on Mon May 06, 2013 2:02 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Can the R-74 and R-77 compete with the IRIS-T and meteor?

    Russian short-range AAMs have always been among the best, so any developments there are going to give the MiG-35 a further edge in a dogfight.

    The R-77 in baseline form is outdated compared to the Meteor, but it has been revealed that new weapons are in the works which are destined for the PAK-FA, which I suspect would be backwards compatible with any of the new Russian fighter platforms (eg. MiG-29SMT/35, Su-35S, Su-34, MiG-31BM, etc.)


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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 06, 2013 12:18 pm

    Good point... even if it takes a while to get the long range ramjet or scramjet powered R-77s into service they can always use the RVV-BD/R-37M with a 280km range.


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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  Austin on Mon May 06, 2013 12:30 pm

    I dont think Mig-35 radar even the AESA one has the ability to track fighter size target at range where RVV-BD full range is useful but on the contrary the RVV-SD along with Mig-35 is an ideal match ~ 110 km.

    RVV-BD effective range is more useful along with IRBIS or BARS.

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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  TR1 on Mon May 06, 2013 1:13 pm

    Zhuk-AE range is more than the initial ranges Bars had. Not sure how it compared to the Bars of today though.

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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 06, 2013 1:40 pm

    Such weapons will not likely be used against fight like aircraft at max range, against force multipliers like AWACS and jammer or even tanker aircraft and troop transports these weapons will be devastating.

    But any range the Meteor will be effective the RVV-BD should be just as effective if not more so.


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    Re: MiG-35 vs Rafale

    Post  Austin on Mon May 06, 2013 2:02 pm

    Meteor is superior to RVV-BD when it comes to dealing with fighter aircraft , refer to Mindstorm post.

    Seems like Mig-29K is limited to 8g while Mig-29M/M2/ , Mig-35 is rated at 9g

    http://www.migavia.ru/eng/military_e/MiG_29_K_KUB_e.htm

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