Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Share

    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nastle77 on Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:44 am

    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Right before breakup of USSR how many mig 29 were operational with VVS ?
    Yefim gordon says it was around 450 in western USSR  and eastern Europe is that accurate?

    Russa itself allegeldy inherited 460 borts.
    And I know for sure that some regiments were based in Ukraine and Belarus as well not to mention the one in Turkmenistan

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 776
    Points : 953
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:03 pm

    nastle77 wrote:Right before breakup of USSR how many mig 29 were operational with VVS ?
    Yefim gordon says it was around 450 in western USSR  and eastern Europe is that accurate?


    1) More than 800. 825 as reported by the same Yefim.

    -Where Yefim Gordon provide this number of 450 MiG-29 in western URSS and Eastern Europe ? It is way off.

    Only VVS had more than 700 deployed in those are by end of '80 years.

    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:16 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Right before breakup of USSR how many mig 29 were operational with VVS ?
    Yefim gordon says it was around 450 in western USSR  and eastern Europe is that accurate?


    1) More than 800.  825 as reported by the same Yefim.

    -Where Yefim Gordon provide this number of 450 MiG-29 in western URSS and Eastern Europe ? It is way off.  

    Only VVS had more than 700 deployed in those are by end of '80 years.  
    My apologies 450 is from military balance and world air power journal
    World air power encyclopedia  quotes brassy saying that 1200 + single seaters were produced  by end of 80s ...im not sure who Brassy is ? Some defence expert?
    In which book does yefim say its 825?
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5609
    Points : 5650
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Militarov on Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:46 pm

    nastle77 wrote:
    Mindstorm wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Right before breakup of USSR how many mig 29 were operational with VVS ?
    Yefim gordon says it was around 450 in western USSR  and eastern Europe is that accurate?


    1) More than 800.  825 as reported by the same Yefim.

    -Where Yefim Gordon provide this number of 450 MiG-29 in western URSS and Eastern Europe ? It is way off.  

    Only VVS had more than 700 deployed in those are by end of '80 years.  
    My apologies 450 is from military balance and world air power journal
    World air power encyclopedia  quotes brassy saying that 1200 + single seaters were produced  by end of 80s ...im not sure who Brassy is ? Some defence expert?
    In which book does yefim say its 825?

    The Lifeblood of War: Logistics in Armed Conflict, Oxford: Brassy's, 1991.

    Number of 800 is very, very unlikely. That is maybe number whole USSR pre-collapse had active. Russia itself never had such amount of 29s.

    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:40 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:
    Mindstorm wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Right before breakup of USSR how many mig 29 were operational with VVS ?
    Yefim gordon says it was around 450 in western USSR  and eastern Europe is that accurate?


    1) More than 800.  825 as reported by the same Yefim.

    -Where Yefim Gordon provide this number of 450 MiG-29 in western URSS and Eastern Europe ? It is way off.  

    Only VVS had more than 700 deployed in those are by end of '80 years.  
    My apologies 450 is from military balance and world air power journal
    World air power encyclopedia  quotes brassy saying that 1200 + single seaters were produced  by end of 80s ...im not sure who Brassy is ? Some defence expert?
    In which book does yefim say its 825?

    The Lifeblood of War: Logistics in Armed Conflict, Oxford: Brassy's, 1991.

    Number of 800 is very, very unlikely. That is maybe number whole USSR pre-collapse had active. Russia itself never had such amount of 29s.
    Yes that's what I meant 800 in VVS before USSR breakup

    So this book you mentioned says that 1200 single seaters mig 29 were produced by 1990 ?
    Thank you

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 776
    Points : 953
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:56 pm


    nastle77 wrote:World air power encyclopedia quotes brassy saying that 1200 + single seaters were produced by end of 80s ...im not sure who Brassy is ? Some defence expert?


    Brassy is publishing house , author is Julian Thompson and the book in question is obviously incomparably less complete and reliable than the Yefim book purposely dedicated to the MiG-29.


    nastle77 wrote:In which book does yefim say its 825?

    Famous Russian Aircraft : Mikoyan MiG 29

    Chapter Twelve : The Operators; - Soviet Union/Russia - p. 438-440 Wink

    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nastle77 on Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:52 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:World air power encyclopedia  quotes brassy saying that 1200 + single seaters were produced  by end of 80s ...im not sure who Brassy is ? Some defence expert?


    Brassy is publishing house , author is Julian Thompson and the book in question is obviously incomparably less complete and reliable than the Yefim book purposely dedicated to the MiG-29.

     
    nastle77 wrote:In which book does yefim say its 825?

    Famous Russian Aircraft : Mikoyan MiG 29

    Chapter Twelve : The  Operators; -  Soviet Union/Russia - p. 438-440 Wink

    thumbsup thank you !

    eridan

    Posts : 147
    Points : 153
    Join date : 2012-12-13

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  eridan on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:44 pm

    According to take off magazine article about mig's history and their tables of production, 1330 mig29 of all kinds were produced by 1992.

    Soviet breakup was earlier so a few less, and some were exported, so again some 100+ less. Some were lost in accidents, etc...

    Over 1000 for sure (including UB trainers) possibly up to 1200 at the moment of breakup.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5609
    Points : 5650
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Militarov on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:52 pm

    eridan wrote:According to take off magazine article about mig's history and their tables of production,  1330 mig29 of all kinds were produced by 1992.

    Soviet breakup was earlier so a few less, and some were exported, so again some 100+ less. Some were lost in accidents, etc...

    Over 1000 for sure (including UB trainers) possibly up to 1200 at the moment of breakup.

    100+ less? Ukraine alone inherited more than that.
    avatar
    Pierre Sprey

    Posts : 34
    Points : 40
    Join date : 2017-02-01

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:16 pm

    eridan wrote:According to take off magazine article about mig's history and their tables of production,  1330 mig29 of all kinds were produced by 1992.

    Soviet breakup was earlier so a few less, and some were exported, so again some 100+ less. Some were lost in accidents, etc...

    Over 1000 for sure (including UB trainers) possibly up to 1200 at the moment of breakup.

    800+ sounds about right to me.

    The cold war was the biggest arms race of all time. The biggest most overkill armament of all time. 400 ? Nah.

    Mindstorm

    Posts : 776
    Points : 953
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:08 am



    Militarov wrote:100+ less? Ukraine alone inherited more than that.


    Militarov probably you want to know the number of MiG-29 - of different designation - operative with Russian Air Force after URSS's breakup while nastle77 want to know the number of MiG-29 operative with Soviet Air Force -excluded Warsaw Pact nations air forces - up to that date Wink


    From the previously mentioned book:

    "In 1992-93 the Russian Air Force operated about 580 MiG-29s, including the test and development aircraft owned by the Mykoyan OKB.
    By 2002 this had dwindled to about 490 machines ,including 239 Fulcrums in service with first-line units, 145 aircraft operated by training units and 89 aircraft at the Air Force's storage depots"


    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Right before breakup of USSR how many mig 29 were operational with VVS ?

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:40 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:

    Militarov wrote:100+ less? Ukraine alone inherited more than that.


    Militarov probably you want to know the number of MiG-29 - of different designation - operative with Russian Air Force after URSS's breakup while nastle77 want to know the number of MiG-29 operative with Soviet Air Force -excluded Warsaw Pact nations air forces - up to that date Wink


    From the previously mentioned book:

    "In 1992-93 the Russian Air Force operated about 580 MiG-29s, including the test and development aircraft owned by the Mykoyan OKB.
    By 2002 this had dwindled to about 490 machines ,including 239 Fulcrums in service with first-line units, 145 aircraft operated by training units and 89 aircraft at the Air Force's storage depots"    

    Exactly !
    So it's safe to assume yefim gordon is right in suggesting 800 + mig 29 by 1990 operational with soviet airforces. ?
    I also found that the ATTU or Atlantic to Ural count of fulcrum was 455 in the CFE estimation so probably the rest were still in Pacific or central Asia?

    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Mig-23ML production

    Post  nastle77 on Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:26 am

    How many Mig-23ML and MLA were produced ?
    I have read about 1000

    but at the same time about 500 Mig-23P and 500 Mig-23MLD were produced so were these former Mig-23ML and MLA converted to Mig-23P and MLD standards

    OR

    Mig-23P was produced seperately and its numbers were 500 , in addition to the 1000 ML and MLA produced for VVS

    Hope that makes sense

    thanks
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1055
    Points : 1221
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:00 pm


    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    chaff and flare dispensers in soviet fighters

    Post  nastle77 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:31 am

    I was wondering if soviet aircraft in the 80s were fitted with chaff and dispensers?
    was it standard on all versions ? or only on certain specific upgrades

    Also did the soviet aircraft of 80s like Mig-23ML,MLD, Mig-23P,Mig-25PDS ,MiG-29 had chaff/flare dispensers ?
    Thanks
    avatar
    Giulio

    Posts : 169
    Points : 192
    Join date : 2013-10-29
    Location : Italy

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Giulio on Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:38 am

    Yes, not only fighters.

    nastle77

    Posts : 210
    Points : 276
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nastle77 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:48 pm

    Giulio wrote:Yes, not only fighters.

    can you give some details

    what kind of systems were installed

    im only interested in fighters

    thanks
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16865
    Points : 17473
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:34 am

    I remember reading comments in the 1990s from mainly british aircraft magazines about how the flares and chaff dispensors of the east german MiG-29s were quite effective against Sidewinders.

    To be clear the early model IR guided missiles often just headed for the hottest thing it could see, which often meant the sun. That led to improved designs with filters that went for the second hottest thing it could see. This led to flares with different intensities. By the 1980s and early 1990s they often detected UV rays which surfaces like metal or engines or even plastics don't give off... only the sun. flares, and burning fuel in an AB. They also changed the seeker to look for patterns of heat instead of individual hot points.

    That is why today most fighters and transports releasing flares release great streams of them in order to make patterns.

    With new IIR sensors that is all pretty much a waste of time and you actually have to actively deal with the sensor using DIRCMs... ie lasers to dazzle or damage optical sensors.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Giulio

    Posts : 169
    Points : 192
    Join date : 2013-10-29
    Location : Italy

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Giulio on Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:59 am

    nastle77 wrote:
    Giulio wrote:Yes, not only fighters.

    can you give some details

    what kind of systems were installed

    im only interested in fighters

    thanks

    Afaik on the Mig-29 the dispensers were in a horizontal container placed in front of the root of each tail fin. In The Mig-23/27 in horizontal containers above the fuselage. On the Su-25 near the tail. Different configurations over time. On the Il-76/A-50 near the tail, on both sides. On the An-22 on the landing gear fairings, etc....

    For example:

    https://topwar.ru/21611-istrebiteli-mig-23-v-afganistane.html

    Sponsored content

    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:24 am