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    History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

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    nightcrawler
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    History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:03 pm



    Between May 1986 and November 1988, PAF F-16s have shot down at least eight intruders from Afghanistan. The first three of these (one Su-22, one probable Su-22, and one An-26) were shot down by two pilots from No. 9 Squadron. Pilots of No. 14 Squadron destroyed the remaining five intruders (two Su-22s, two MiG-23s, and one Su-25). Most of these kills were by the AIM-9 Sidewinder, but at least one (a Su-22) was destroyed by cannon fire. Flight Lieutenant Khalid Mahmood is credited with three of these kills. One F-16 was lost in these battles during an encounter between two F-16s and six Afghan Air Force aircraft on 29 April 1987, stated by the PAF to have been an "own-goal" because it was hit by an AIM-9 Sidewinder fired from the other F-16. The pilot, Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan, ejected safely.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Air_Force#1979.E2.80.931988_Soviet-Afghan_War

    GarryB
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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:51 am

    Shooting down an Su-25 with an F-16 is like a Mustang or Spitfire shooting down a Stuka.

    Of course the Irony is that if Pakistan had left the Soviets in Afghanistan and not helped the US and Saudi Arabia support the Afghan rebels the Taleban would never have existed and by the time communism collapsed the Soviets would have had 10 years to build the country so it looked more like a 20th century country instead of the stone age country it looks like now.

    Feel sorry for those Afghans.

    nightcrawler
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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nightcrawler on Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:13 am

    @GarryB

    Pakistan had left the Soviets in Afghanistan and not helped the US


    I clearly am/was favour of this; especially after seeing our geopolitical implications no one can justify friendship over the Atlantic & enemy creation in your neighbours; our elders did make a BLUNDER.

    However some believe that I still am not able to either accept/refuse that [b]we had a threat from Soviets
    & that Soviets after Afghanistan will turn to Pakistan to get their hands on warm water seaports in Sindh.....

    In view of friendship b/w India/USSR we thus decided to somehow keep Soviets at bay. How truth it is you tell me??

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:39 am

    I constantly read from western sources that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was an attempt to get a warm water port.

    Total b0llocks.

    Any incursion into Pakistan was an attempt to get rebel forces that sneak across the border and to crush supply lines... much as the US does now with its UCAVs.

    The Soviets invaded Afghanistan because the CIA started trying to "turn" the country and the Soviets feared a CIA puppet in power in Afghanistan like there was in Iran.
    The Afghans were previously friendly to the Soviets so there was really no need to "invade" without western interference.

    The very concept that they could create a Soviet friendly corridor through Afghanistan and Pakistan to any warm water port is ridiculous... just look at a map for goodness sake! Do they think we are idiots?

    The transfer of enough material and fuel and resources through Afghanistan and Pakistan to maintain a port... it would be easier and cheaper to simply build a port in India and then lease it at a fraction of the cost of invading two countries.
    They had enough forces to control some of the cities in Afghanistan but no where near enough at any time to also invade Pakistan. What was supposed to happen? The Pakistanis give up after they see what happened to the Afghans?
    The Soviets aren't stupid. They made mistakes but they weren't stupid. They always had a reason for doing the things they did.

    BTW the British have been fearing Russian invasion of "their" India for centuries believing they wanted warm water ports. (And they certainly do, but they are hardly going to invade lots of hostile countries to do it.)

    I mean lets face it if they desperately needed warm water ports when they joined the pacific war in 1945 in about two weeks fighting the got to the 38th parallel in Korea and took most of China and Manchuria. They could have simply said welcome to the Russian empire and kept China the way Japan had kept China since the early 1930s, though with more humane treatment of course.

    nightcrawler
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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nightcrawler on Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:30 am

    @GarryB

    You are right this Indian port philosophy did strike me beforehand; but guess what this Soviet resistance & helping US was a kindoff 'Blessing in disguise for us'
    Yes a blessing in the meantime we were progressing clandestinely with our nuclear ambitions; & US congress clearly opposed ant CIA investigation of our nuclear sites progress because they needed us.
    Here see the 5th episode although its not entirely true



    Lies
    • AQ Khan millionaire
    • AQ Khan like tailored dressing
    • Was AGENT KARIM





    I wish you can understand urde=u language then I will show u a personal interview of AQ Khan & how simple person he is but a great thief hahahah

    nightcrawler
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    History of Cold war Soviet Air Force aircrafts:

    Post  nightcrawler on Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:39 am

    An account of how a soviet MiG was stolen by the israelis.

    Stealing a Soviet MiGBy Doron Geller

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From 1952-63, Isser Harel directed both the Shin Bet (the Israeli internal security service) and the Mossad (for foreign operations). In early 1963, he was replaced by a newcomer, Meir Amit. At first Amit was not accepted by Mossad operatives loyal to Harel, but after a shaky start, marked by some lack of cooperation and trust, he asserted his leadership over the organization. Even those who had fiercely opposed his entry as the new head of the Mossad in place of Harel grew to respect, admire, and like him. Meir Amit turned out to be a great operations chief. Under him and Military Intelligence (Aman) chief Aharon Yariv in the 1960's, Israeli intelligence turned out some of its most amazing successes. One of these successes had a decisive impact on the outcome of the Six Day War in June 1967 - the stealing of a Soviet MiG-21.

    Soon after assuming leadership of the Mossad on March 25, 1963, Meir Amit consulted a great number of military men in order to spell out Mossad objectives, and ask what they felt would be the Mossad's most valuable contribution to Israeli security. General Mordecai (Motti) Hod, commander of the Israeli Air Force in 1963, (and for the following few years), told him to bring a Soviet-made MiG-21 to Israel.

    It is difficult to determine if Motti Hod really believed such a feat could be pulled off. Ezer Weizmann, who took over command of the Israeli Air force from Hod, told Amit the same thing shortly before the Six-Day War. If it could be done, the Israelis would then have access to the secrets of the most advanced fighter planes the Arab states possessed at the time - and according to the Russians, the most advanced strike aircraft in the world.

    The Russians began introducing the MiG-21 into the Middle East in 1961. By 1963, when Amit took over the Mossad, it was an essential part of the Egyptian, Syrian and Iraqi Air Forces arsenals. The Russians introduced the aircraft under maximum secrecy and security. The Russians "had made it a condition of supplying the aircraft that they should be responsible for security, crew training and maintenance." Few in the West knew much about the MiG-21 - but feared its capabilities.

    The Russians, of course, were aware of the risks they were taking by stationing MiG's outside of their own borders in the service of foreign armies. Security was thus extremely tight - and the Russians were often responsible for it. This in turn bred resentment among certain elements of the their Arab beneficiaries, who were sometimes angered by the greater authority the Russians exerted at their own Syrian, Egyptian or Iraqi air bases than they did themselves. Still, appointment to an MiG-21 squadron "was the highest honor that could be granted to a pilot. These were not the kind of men who could be bribed or would talk loosely in public. As a result, neither Mossad nor Military Intelligence had made any progress at all." They had tried a few times before. Through the services of an Egyptian-born Armenian by the name of Jean Thomas, the Israelis had tried to pay an Egyptian Air Force pilot 1 million dollars to defect to Israel with his MiG-21 in the early 1960's. The pilot refused, Jean Thomas and a number of accomplices were caught, and Thomas and two of his accomplices were hanged in December 1962.

    Another attempt to convince two Iraqi pilots to defect to Israel didn't work either. But the third attempt did.

    "The Israeli military command had always placed a premium on complete familiarity with every weapon their enemies might use against them in combat. One of the first to emphasize this was General Dan Tolkowsky, the commander who built up the Air Force in the early fifties. He said again and again that 'It is a basic principle of warfare that to know the weapons the enemy has is already to beat him.'" Tolkowsky constantly pressed for this kind of information. So, as we saw, would his successors Mordecai Hod and Ezer Weizmann as commanders of the Israeli Air Force.

    The Israeli efforts to accumulate information on potential enemy plans and equipment is of course vital for her national defense. But it has, and undoubtedly continues to be, vital for barter with the United States as well. In Israel, the United States has an ally who has often provided Intelligence far more in-depth than their own, especially about soviet penetration of the Middle East in the 1960's and 1970's. In return, the Americans have often been willing to provide Israel with the latest military equipment which under other circumstances they might not have been willing to provide.

    It is true that as early as the 1956 Suez War, the Israelis found an abandoned Russian plane abandoned by its Egyptian pilot, as the Egyptians hastily fled before the rapidly advancing Israeli Army.

    This was a major coup. But its effects soon wore off as the Russians introduced the more advanced, and unknown, MiG-21 into the Syrian, Egyptian and Iraqi Air Forces.

    Israeli Intelligence went through its options; "bribery, intercepting a plane at its unloading point in an Arab country, planting an agent at an airbase…" But the Mossad came to the conclusion that it would be best to try and persuade an Arab pilot to defect to Israel.

    In the event, the Israelis got a free tip-off from an unexpected source without initiating a thing; an Iraqi Jew by the name of Joseph indicated that if Israel wanted an MiG-21, he could probably arrange it. This was a strange development. Most Iraqi Jews had been flown to Israel in a massive airlift in the early 1950's. Perhaps 1000 or even less remained of a community which prior to the early 1950's numbered well over 100,000 Jews.

    Joseph had grown up as a poor Jew and had been indentured to an Iraqi Maronite Christian family at the age of ten. Although he never attended school or learned to read and write, he, like the biblical Joseph, rose to prominence in this non-Jewish family's household. No decision was taken without him being consulted. He was present at all family meetings, and his was often the last word on any family decision. He had risen to be a central figure in the family's affairs whom they all looked up to, admired, respected, and loved.

    When he was almost 60, however, during a quarrel with the real head of the household, Joseph was told that without the family he would have had nothing. Although the Christian Maronite soon apologized, Joseph didn't forget it. He decided then and there to explore his "otherness" - his Jewish identity. This was something he had hardly given thought to before. He began to learn about Judaism and Israel. Although he maintained his loyalty to his adopted family, he also felt equally loyal to his newfound concern for Israel. Late in 1964 he contacted Israeli officials in Tehran (until 1979 Israel had a good relationship with Persian, non-Arab Iran) and Europe. He had something important to tell them.

    Israel, as a Jewish state in the Middle East, has always cultivated non-Arab nations on the periphery of the Middle Eastern world - such as the Turks and until 1979, Iran. Israel also actively cultivated minorities within Arab-Moslem nations. Israel has made discreet intelligence contacts over the years with the Druze sect (primarily in Syria and Lebanon), the Kurds in Iraq and elsewhere and the Maronite Christians and other Christian sects throughout the Middle East. In the early 1980's Israel tried to form a full-fledged alliance with the large but minority Christian Maronites in Lebanon.

    In early 1964 Israel soon had contact - through Joseph - with a Maronite Christian pilot in the Iraqi Air Force. The family felt disaffected with their lot. The father felt frustrated by the increasing pressures the Iraqi government was imposing on him and other Maronite Christians. Some of his friends had even been imprisoned and he was finding it difficult to manage his business. He mentioned to Joseph that he would like to leave the country.

    After Joseph first contacted the Israelis, there were many in Israel who preferred to drop the issue as unrealistic. But not Meir Amit. Even when Joseph began demanding more money and many in Israel pegged him as a con-man, Amit pursued it. He had an ally in Yitzhak Rabin, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Armed Forces on the eve (and during) the Six Day War. They contacted a top agent in Baghdad, an American woman, and either on Israeli orders or on her own initiative (sources conflict) she decided to draw out Munir Redfa - a Christian Iraqi air force pilot and a member of Joseph's adopted family.

    The American woman was a Mossad agent (it is not clear if she was Jewish) who was not only lively and intelligent but beautiful as well. She mixed in easily in high social circles wherever she went. According to one source, she initiated the contact with Munir Redfa at a party, where the two immediately hit it off. He told her he was a patriotic Iraqi, but he "found himself in violent disagreement with the current war being waged by his government against the minority Kurdish tribesmen in northern Iraq."

    In the 1960's as in the 1990's, the Kurds tried to maintain their independence in the Arab (and Turkish) world that did not wish to give it to them. As a minority Christian, Munir Redfa was greatly troubled by the fact that he, as a deputy commander of a MiG-21 squadron, was one of those who was asked to lead bombing missions against the almost defenseless Kurds. According to Dennis Eisenberg, Uri Dan, and Eli Landau, Redfa "even confessed a 'sneaking admiration' for the Israelis, who were 'so few against so many *******.'" There were other things bothering him as well. He had been passed over as commander of his squadron, he was stationed far from his home in Baghdad, and "was allowed to fly only with small fuel tanks, because he was a Christian." The American woman listened. She continued to see him and their intimacy, despite his marriage and several children, grew.

    She exploited the connection to suggest a holiday in Europe in July 1966. He agreed. After a few days there, she "suggested that Munir fly to Israel with her. She had friends there who might be of service to him." She pulled out a brand new passport and tickets.

    He then knew that this had to have been planned from the start, and she hadn't been attracted to him for who he was. But he also knew that she was making an offer that could be of great benefit to him. Not only would he be through with the bombing missions he so disagreed with - the Israelis would be paying him1 million dollars. It was as attractive as it was dangerous.

    Munir wanted to see that not only his wife and children would be taken safely out of Iraq, but his parents and the rest of his extended family as well. Joseph would see to that. Joseph was concerned that of each family member knew that they were going to leave, it was inevitable, due to human nature, that someone would mention the fact to the wrong person, and the whole plan would go awry. Therefore many of the family members were never even told they were going to leave Iraq. As for Munir Redfa himself, not only did the Israelis agree to pay him very well and grant full protection to his family, but they told him that they would provide him "with Israeli citizenship, a home, and a job for life."

    Munir Redfa's mind was made up. Mordecai Hod, the commander of the Israeli Air Force, met him and went over the escape plan with him. He would fly a zig-zag route to Israel to avoid Iraqi and Jordanian radar. IAF commander Hod told him: "'You know how dangerous this is going to be. The flight is 900 kilometers. If your own colleagues guess what you're up to they may send planes to blow you out of the skies. If they don't succeed, the Jordanians may try. Your only hope is to remain calm and follow this route. They do not know it, we do.'" Hod continued; "If you lose your nerve you are a dead man. Once you have left your ordinary flight path there is no turning back." Redfa seemed aware of this and responded simply; "'I will bring you the plane.'"

    For the remainder of his stay in Israel Munir Redfa and his Israeli handlers went over his planned escape again and again. "He was amazed to see that they knew almost as much about the goings-on at his airbase as he did. They knew the names of all the personnel, both Russian and Iraqi, and the layout of the entire base. They knew minutely the routine of training flights: long flights on certain days, short on others."

    He would have to pick a day when he would be permitted to go on a long-range flight.

    Redfa and the American woman went back to Europe and from there to Iraq. Soon members of Redfa's family began leaving the country; one as a tourist, another for medical treatment…

    Munir Redfa set his date for August 16, 1966. The Israeli Air Force would be expecting him on one of a number of given days in August. He carried on his business as usual as best he could with co-workers he would never see again. He asked the ground crew to fill his tanks to capacity, something the Russian advisors generally had to sign for. But the Iraqis disliked the Russian advisers, who seemed to hold them in contempt. This worked to Redfa's benefit. As a star pilot, they were to happy to obey his orders, rather than those of the Russians.

    He took off. After heading out towards Baghdad, he veered off in the direction of Israel. The ground crew radar picked up a blip on the screen heading west and they frantically radioed him to turn around. He didn't. They warned him they would shoot him down.

    He turned the radio off.

    Hundreds of miles away Israeli radar picked up the blip on the screen. They sent up a squad of IAF Mirages to escort him. He went through his prearranged signals and they flew alongside him to a base deep in the Negev Desert.

    That day, "Mossad agents hired two large vans and picked up the remaining members of the pilot's family, who had left Baghdad ostensibly to have a picnic. They were driven to the Iranian border and guided across by anti-Iraqi Kurdish guerrillas. Safely in Iran, a helicopter collected them and flew them to an airfield, from where an airplane took them to Israel."

    Newspapers all over the world carried the sensational story of an Iraqi pilot who had defected with his MiG-21 to Israel. "Like all news stories, it stayed in the papers a few days (with constantly shrinking headlines) and was soon forgotten by most people...Among those who did not forget were military leaders of the United States, France, Britain and other powers. They pressed the Israelis for a glimpse of the aircraft, the first to fall into the hands of a nation friendly to their interests..."

    The Russians were furious. Their air power secrets were seriously compromised. They threatened the Israelis ferociously and demanded the plane back.

    The Israelis, of course, did not return the plane. They did not, however, turn it over to the United States for the time being in order to temper Russian rage.

    Moreover, it diminished the KGB's - and of course the Iraqis' - prestige. Redfa was not an unbalanced cadet, as they may have preferred to believe, but "one of the country's best pilots, and he had been very thoroughly screened by Soviet and Iraqi security before rising to his position as an elite air force pilot - even if he did, as a Christian, face certain drawbacks.

    The Israelis did not divulge their part in Munir Redfa's defection for quite some time. It took years for the Russians to put together how the theft of the MiG had been arranged. They assumed from the start that the Mossad was behind it. In this they were correct.

    A few months later the IAF did loan the MiG to the United States for testing. It was an essential and very important part of American strategic capabilities. They US Air Force used the MiG in simulated dogfights with the intention of gaining as much insight into the Soviet plane's capability that they could.

    For the Israelis the benefit of possession of the plane was even more immediate. In an April 7, 1967 dogfight with the Syrians, the IAF shot down six Syrian MiG's to no Israeli planes. In the June 1967 War, the Israeli Air Force commanded overwhelming air superiority over the Syrian and Egyptian MiG's. Not a little had to do with the fact that an MiG had been flown to Israel less than a year earlier with the connivance of Israeli Intelligence.

    Munir Redfa came to Israel with his family and was given a new job and a new life. The American woman saw him perhaps once more after he arrived, but she was committed to her work in the Mossad, which was where her ultimate loyalty lay.

    The Iraqi Jew Joseph did not come to Israel, preferring to remain a Zionist from afar in his native Iraq. Presumably, he lived satisfied with what he had done both for the family he loved and the country on which he bestowed his new-found concern and affections.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/migtheft.html

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:53 am

    The Mig-21 would not be the worlds best strike aircraft, it would not even be the best strike aircraft in a hangar if it was alone in that hangar.
    It is, was, and always would be a shiny relatively short range Mach 2 aircraft that was a pretty good fighter that was cheap to operate and relatively easy to fly. It was designed to shoot down B-52s and probably would have done a pretty good job in that role if given a real opportunity.

    The Israelis also kidnapped Arabs in an SA-8 SAM vehicle too from memory.

    It is one of the reasons Israel does so well normally in wars... it does its homework.

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    History of Soviet fighter aircrafts

    Post  nemrod on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:53 pm

    In june 1982, I was 15 years old, and I heard from our radio and watched news-in terse way- and after TV news that Israel downed more than 100 syrian aircrafts, many of them were Mig 23.
    In the moment I did not pay attention, but few years later I tried to interrest in aircrafts, and most of the news military newspapers that I read in frenetic way, took the the informations from wolrd press agencies. This information in fact was a pure lye, and said by Israeli military propaganda. For me, and many of my friends Mig-23 beside the T-72, represented what was soviet military hardware, old, none quality, useless, old fashionned.

    http://www.aviation-time.kiev.ua/eng/article.php?IDA=10


    The rest I leave you reading what Vladimir Illyin said about this so-called israeli success


    As a whole fighters of Syria AF annihilated 42 aircraft of Israeli AF (including, as minimum, five F-15A and six F-16A) and one remote piloted aircraft in the course of dogfights from the 6th to the 12th of June (that day cease-fire has been signed). At the same time Syria AF lost 47 aircraft (four МиГ-23МС, six МиГ-23МФ, twenty six МиГ-21бис and eleven МиГ-21МФ). Besides Israeli F-16A fighters annihilated seven Су-22М fighter-bombers and some МиГ-23БН.

    It is possible to explane some odds in Israel favour by the following reasons: difference in aviation machinery capabilities, wider use of early-warning and ECM aircraft, better fighters tactics in fight, higher level of fighter pilots' flying and tactical training. Besides Israeli observers noted poor moral standard of Syrian pilots. Some of them "flew as if expected that their aircraft will be brought down" (perhaps the last statement belongs to "psychological war" sphere).
    Appraising results of military application of fighters in the fight above Bekaa lowland a "great Israeli commander" (he wanted to be unknown for readers) said in interview to Flight International magazine: "In my estimation: Soviet aircraft are very good judging from our knowledges about their capabilities and that we saw in practice. But Syrian pilots often acted not then, when it is necessary and not there, where it is necessary...."

    However in spite of favorable for Syria outcome of fights during the 9th-11th of June USA won in "informational war". This victory was result of large propagandistic campaign conducted by USA and directed first of all against Soviet Union. Information about losses in Lebanon published in Israel had pronounced propagandistic character. According to these data Israeli AF annihilated 102 aircraft of Syria AF and at the same time lost only one aircraft brought down from land. However the general world public learned results of this war almost exclusively from messages of American news agencies which almost completely repeated information of Israeli sources. There is nothing surprising that Israelis have underestimated their losses and overstated enemy's losses. Eventually war is war and every historian knows that messages of Sovinformbureau, German Ministry of Propaganda or American commander are not good sources for researches of war 1941-1945. Nevertheless USA could use their most power in the world propaganda for discredit of Soviet aviation industry as well as for advancement of their aviation machinery, in particular, F-16 fighters with formed reputation of "МиГ killers". In such conditions Israeli victorius reports skilfully used by USA were excellent present to American aircraft building firms.

    However it is necessary to note that west specialists often called in question Israeli messages. Thus Dr.J.Chorba, President of Washington Centre of Internatinal Safety, who visited Israel on a commission from American Government shortly after finishing of military operations in Lebanon, told that Israelis refused to give him any concrete information concerning use of "new American weapon" in the military operations. Timid attempts of Soviet Government to disprove Israeli version of the fights in Lebanon and to save home aviation industry's reputation by means of TASS were delated and clumsy. TASS message of the 15th of August, 1982 informed that "in military operations above Bekaa lowland Syria AF annihilated about 70 Israeli aircraft including the lastest type machinery". But this message remained unnoticed neither abroad nor in USSR.


    It is important to highlight the very good behaviour of the Mig 23, and its relative success regarding the fact that it was built normally against Tornado and matching the flying-plow F-4 E Phantom II. It did not be concept to match neither F-15, or F-16.
    Despite that the Mig-23 Flogger performed a fair score. Unfortunetly this hoax caused a severe prejudice not only the syrian army, but the soviet -russian- weaponnery too. Allowing US military machine to sell more easily than ever its hardwares.
    Unfortunetly in that time, there was not Internet, only for us, very oriented newspapers leaving us with complete dark.



    PS: Request, if it is possible in this forum to have a special topic dedicated to history. Obviously if it is possible. Is it also possible to move this subject in another topic, as I wrote about a soviet/russian aircraft.
    Thanks for all.

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    Difference between Soviet Air Force and Soviet Air Defence Force?

    Post  SSDD on Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:50 am

    I recently found an article about Soviet Air defence force? What was difference between it and regular Soviet Air force?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Air_Defence_Forces

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Aerospace_Defence_Forces

    Is present Russian Air defence Force is similar to it? Why Soviet Union and Russia keeps 1 additional branch of air service when Soviet Air force was there to look on over all air superiority?Question Question

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:43 am

    The force called the Soviet Air Force consisted of at least 5 branches from memory... DA (Long range), which was the strategic bomber force, the PVO Air Defence forces, Frontal Aviation which was tactical aircraft to support ground forces, Transport aviation... pretty obvious, and Naval Aviation.

    The job of the PVO was to defend Soviet air space from enemy intruders and they had their own aircraft and radars and equipment... as differentiated from frontal aviation which had fighters etc and whose job was to hit enemy ground and air resources.

    More recently the PVO was reduced to aircraft on call to the air defence forces that were nominally in the VVS.

    Today the PVO is part of the VKKO, or Aerospace Defence Forces... which combines the PVO from the VVS and the VKO or space defence forces which includes long range radar, satellites etc etc.

    In terms of equipment there was a bit of sharing, but also custom made aircraft too... the PVO used Su-27s and Mig-29s, but it also used Mig-31s, Tu-128s, Su-11, Su-15, and other unique interceptors.


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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Giulio on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:41 pm

    So, the VVS is the "Air Force" and she includes the 5 branches (PVO, Frontal Aviation, transport ...)?

    If possible, why some aircrafts, like some Su-15 (as these below), Mig-23, ecc ... have received a mimetic camouflage instead of natural silver of the other aircrafts?

    Were those planes belonging to the units of the Frontal Aviation for the ground support?


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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:57 pm

    LINK thumbsup 

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:09 am

    Giulio wrote:So, the VVS is the "Air Force" and she includes the 5 branches (PVO, Frontal Aviation, transport ...)?

    If possible, why some aircrafts, like some Su-15 (as these below), Mig-23, ecc ... have received a mimetic camouflage instead of natural silver of the other aircrafts?

    Were those planes belonging to the units of the Frontal Aviation for the ground support?


    Nah Su-15 could do absolutely nothing as far as ground support was concerned.

    Most of them were in metallic finish anwyays.

    Though I do recall reading Yefim Gordon (yes yes I know) that even PVO MiG-23Ps practices air-to-ground missile strikes....

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  Giulio on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:42 am

    Thanks. But belonged the aircrafts with mimetic camo to the Frontal Aviation?

    Maybe the mimetic camouflage was for intercept missions (air to air) from tactical airports near the front line?
    Another example could be the Mig-25RB with mimetic camo (not for air to air, but for recon).


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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:24 am

    Could be for confusion.

    Generally most PVO fighters and interceptors did not have paint and were left bare metal.

    Frontal aviation did use camouflage paint but also used aircraft in bare metal.

    The Mig-25 had a ground attack version but like other Mig-25 missions flew high and fast so camouflage paint was meaningless to such an aircraft.


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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:24 am

    Did the Mig-25RB have limited tactical effectiveness or was it just a nuclear bomber?

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:36 am

    All the information I have read suggests the Mig-25RB was considered successful.

    Basically it flew at high altitude at high speed and dropped standard FAB bombs.

    It was found very quickly that the standard fuses could not stand the temperatures of that sort of speed so new fuses and bombs were developed that could handle high skin temperatures for long periods, but once that was achieved AFAIK they were effective enough.

    It was the first aircraft to release bombs at high supersonic speeds.


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    Tupolev Tu-128 "Fiddler": the Siberian defender

    Post  Giulio on Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:42 pm

    Is this definition correct? Siberian defender?
    This aircraft was the biggest and heavier interceptor of all time, he has defended for many years the Soviet Arctic and the Far East, but for me it is a perfect stranger.
    Does anyone know anything about it? Thanks.

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:31 pm

    It was built at a time when only a light bomber could carry the electronics and radar and missiles needed to bring down a bomber and cover the enormous distances of the Soviet Union.



    I always though that with new more powerful, more fuel efficient engines that it could have been used for a wider variety of roles... the AESA radar it could carry would be huge...


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    Tu-128 interceptor

    Post  medo on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:17 pm

    Tu-128 is retired for a long time now and was the first Soviet long range interceptor with crew of two (pilot and RIO). It have quite capable radar Smerch for its time and I think a derivate of it was also in MiG-25. Anyone know, if Russia keep at least 1 of those planes in flying conditions for special occasions like MAKS or similar. It would be nice to see such veterans still flying in meetings.

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  medo on Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:02 pm















    Few pictures of Tu-128 interceptor. Very Happy

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:20 am

    A few more:





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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  marcinko on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:34 pm

    [quote="nemrod"]
    Werewolf wrote:

    - The syrian Mig-23 ML -was too, one of the best iraqi fighters- in 1983 downed several israelis' F-15, and F-16.

    Is there any hard proof regarding the Eagles ?

    That would be very useful

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  nemrod on Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:04 pm

    marcinko wrote:
    Is there any hard proof regarding the Eagles ?
    That would be very useful



    The Mig-23 Flogger is the most misunderstood fighter, and the most despised in history of soviet weaponnery. Most misunderstood because this aircraft is a transition between SU-15, and SU-27. It could be seen too as an intermediate between, Mig-25 and Mig-29. In fact this fighter bomber is far better than the Phantom II, and the F-105, but could match F-14, F-18, F-16, Tornado and obviously F-15, if inside, you have a competent pilot. If during Desert Storm -1991- several Mig-23 ML were downed, many US coalition aircrafts were downed and damaged, far more than the US DoD could admit.

    Despised because us in western countries are completly misinformed, and the tragedy is, we, more than any other people in the world, believe strongly in the lies peddled by our diabolic medias. As the war in Lebanon was fight between soviet weaponneries, and US weaponneries, became the baseline of what we believe about soviet fighters, we all rely on one of the hugest slander against the Mig-23. The problem in the 80's and 90's we had no other alternatives, other than moving out of west countries. Nevertheless, proofs against this stupid lie existed everywhere, but our brains were conditionned by western medias, and we could not imagine other things that we were taught. I spent my youth with room full of books, videos, and special newspapers about everything relating military. Nowadays, with Internet I understood that near all what I read is simply hoaxes.

    The great criticism I have against Soviet Union, and Russia, they did not do enough efforts to save their own aviation industry's and know-how reputation. In fact, untill 2010, neither Soviet Union or Russia did significant efforts to refute the lies. More than anyone, soviet, or russian specialists are very well aware about the capacities of US air fleet worth, and they think it is no use to tell more. But us ? And us ? Iam not a specialist, I wish to have opinion of russians about what's happened.  In fact, russians think they are a great people -it is true-, they have a multimillenaires culture -it is true too-,  those who are interresting by russians affairs, they must learn russian tongue, and access to russian sites. I think it is not a good approach, we need Russia, we need russians, we need russians informations in every tongue, at least in english.




    Please take a look here in this Topic.
    Obviously here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23

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    Re: History of Cold war Soviet aircrafts

    Post  marcinko on Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:17 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    marcinko wrote:
    Is there any hard proof regarding the Eagles ?
    That would be very useful



    The Mig-23 Flogger is the most misunderstood fighter, and the most despised in history of soviet weaponnery. Most misunderstood because this aircraft is a transition between SU-15, and SU-27. It could be seen too as an intermediate between, Mig-25 and Mig-29. In fact this fighter bomber is far better than the Phantom II, and the F-105, but could match F-14, F-18, F-16, Tornado and obviously F-15, if inside, you have a competent pilot. If during Desert Storm -1991- several Mig-23 ML were downed, many US coalition aircrafts were downed and damaged, far more than the US DoD could admit.

    Despised because us in western countries are completly misinformed, and the tragedy is, we, more than any other people in the world, believe strongly in the lies peddled by our diabolic medias. As the war in Lebanon was fight between soviet weaponneries, and US weaponneries, became the baseline of what we believe about soviet fighters, we all rely on one of the hugest slander against the Mig-23. The problem in the 80's and 90's we had no other alternatives, other than moving out of west countries. Nevertheless, proofs against this stupid lie existed everywhere, but our brains were conditionned by western medias, and we could not imagine other things that we were taught. I spent my youth with room full of books, videos, and special newspapers about everything relating military. Nowadays, with Internet I understood that near all what I read is simply hoaxes.

    The great criticism I have against Soviet Union, and Russia, they did not do enough efforts to save their own aviation industry's and know-how reputation. In fact, untill 2010, neither Soviet Union or Russia did significant efforts to refute the lies. More than anyone, soviet, or russian specialists are very well aware about the capacities of US air fleet worth, and they think it is no use to tell more. But us ? And us ? Iam not a specialist, I wish to have opinion of russians about what's happened.  In fact, russians think they are a great people -it is true-, they have a multimillenaires culture -it is true too-,  those who are interresting by russians affairs, they must learn russian tongue, and access to russian sites. I think it is not a good approach, we need Russia, we need russians, we need russians informations in every tongue, at least in english.




    Please take a look here in this Topic.
    Obviously here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-23

    I fully agree with you regarding the way people view the Flogger.
    To be honest I sort of analyzed it thru the same glass, then I saw the huge differences between versions what an MLD can do etc.

    Thing is, we need solid proof that the 23 shot down that many and so diverse IAF fighters.
    I mean come on, if you are the military then publish some damn gun camera footage, brag about what what your pilots do.

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