Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Western propaganda

    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2712
    Points : 2867
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:07 am

    I think Russia (unlike the USSR) sees this latest cold war as mainly a clash for long term economic benefits/realignment....strictly military considerations are of secondary importance.

    As long as they have a viable Strategic deterrence a direct clash with Nato is unlikely
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:22 am

    Completely agreed, they should put a pack of Cobalt on every single warhead they have

    No point halfassing the nuclear war

    But a critical key to this is to make the west aware that they are doing this and why... there is no point in developing weapons of mass annihilation if the other side don't realise it till they go boom and their geiger counters go batshit crazy for the next 100 years or so...

    It would also probably lead to the new NATO members realising Russia is not interested in their territory except as the start of the desert reaching to the English Channel... might calm them down a bit too.

    Cobalt does not increase the yield of nuclear devices. You are repeating an urban myth. Cobalt's sole "value" is in generating isotopes with the
    right half life to generate life-destroying radiation levels that last for decades.

    Sorry I wasn't clear, but I thought the way I said it made it pretty clear that Cobalt makes nukes dirtier, and not more powerful.

    Particularly:

    they should make all their ICBM warheads enormously powerful Cobalt bombs, because their nuclear weapons are not for conquest or to settle an argument...

    If I thought cobalt bombs were powerful bombs on their own I would not suggest developing enormous powerful ones... because that suggests there are cobalt bombs that are not enormously powerful and therefore that the bombs don't derive their power from the Cobalt.

    Why would you use cobalt is you will need to repopulate wiped out lands? Russians should be able move in after decontamination. I'm almost sure Russia can win nuclear war and they would need new lands.

    Yeah, but the best way of ensuring we don't need to find out is to make it all as unappealing as possible... the most dangerous situation we could possibly have is one side or the other thinking they could survive it, because when push comes to shove they might test that theory, and when they find they are wrong there is no undo button to press to put everything back the way it was.

    Some sort of combination of cobalt bombs and deadly virulent viruses that kills only humans is the goal... we know from the area around Chernobyl that radiation might seem like a bad thing but take an urban area and add radiation but take away humans and nature returns pretty damn quickly... the message here is that Human activity is actually more devastating to nature than high levels of radiation.... think about that for a bit...

    If they go pussyfooting around in nuclear war they will be "repopulated" themselves when third party survivors come looking for payback

    They need to make sure nothing is left alive after nuclear war that walks on less than six legs, it's the ultimate deterrence policy

    Exactly... the stark reality is that most of the nuclear strikes are going to be concentrated in the northern hemisphere, and even then major population centres in Russia, Europe, the US, China, and probably Israel and likely Iran and North Korea... even if Pakistan and India open up on each other because they might as well use it in case the other side uses it... there are 3 billion people in China and India and 4 billion people plus in the rest of the world... only a small fraction will be killed out right, and a few billion more dying later on... there is a bloody good chance that several billion people will survive... billions will starve because of the urban nature of humanity, and there will be conflicts and issues, but there are going to be a huge number of people wanting to loot formerly advanced countries stuff...
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:25 am

    You should know what compromises means, it means in this case details you would not want someone to know are learned.

    You could apply that reasoning to Turkey not wanting the US to know how their brand new air defence SAMs work too...

    You assume because Russia says "Eh there is no way they can do that" I wouldn't take their word on that, long have you have the correct data you can easily figure out classified things about the design.

    Public information is ball park stuff, but different customers will be offered different packages depending on their demands and of course how much they are prepared to pay.

    The Turks might get all the detailed information they want to share with the US from the operations manuals they are given by the Russians to use the systems, or they might even invite US specialists to come and climb all over the systems, but do you really think its secrets will lead to serious counters being developed any time soon? And even if it did are the Russian systems the same as the Turkish ones?

    There is bluff and counter bluff at play here...

    And who is to say the CIA hasn't already dropped a huge wad of cash to some S-400 trained soldier in the Far east to deliver all that information and more already?

    Is that really a good reason to turn down a 5 billion dollar contract with all the effects it is having on the relationships between NATO partners and leading to potential future cooperation and sales...

    Get over yourself... it is large cash injections like this that fund development and replacement systems... the profit margin in these export sales are enormous which means production capacity can be expanded and properly used reducing the price and increasing deployment of the Russian systems too.


    Selling anything to China is a mistake unless it's two gens behind they will just reverse engineer it sure it may not be has good as the original but it will be cheaper and MUCH cheaper.

    And no one else does that of course... the value of the ruble means if it is cheaper then they have half arsed the job regarding materials... Russia has already learned when German marine engines are not available because of sanctions that the Chinese offer a good price, but in terms of reliability they lack in terms of metalurgy... whether they didn't know or it is just a consequence of cost saving in areas that needed better quality harder wearing materials is not really important... the fact is that cheaper often means not good enough...

    I have made my opinions on selling up to date tech to China is a mistake from day 1.

    One could argue the same issues apply to selling high tech stuff to Russia, but by hook or by crook they are likely going to buy the technology from somewhere, and once they have it they can build upon it with their own talent and can often lead to directions that are ahead of those they bought the technology from.

    Thales have a good relationship with Russia because Russia is a modern country with educated workers able to produce high quality products for much less than EU member states can manage... Russian produced Thales products are sold around the world for a much bigger profit than domestically produced products...

    The stuff made in Russia is in brand new factories with new equipment... it makes it harder for existing factories in the west to compete...

    You think you are smarter than Sukhoi engineers ? Like they don't know what can be done if they give sensitive tech to a nato country ?

    The Americans created a programme to buy supersonic anti ship missiles... they wrote the specs around the Granit anti ship missile because that is what they wanted to test their systems against... US companies came up with all sorts of designs, but the best system for this 5 million dollar contract was the Kh-31 from Russia, which was accepted and turned in to the MA-31 target missile... they offered up a very early model with rather weak performance and it still won ahead of all the best and the brightest from the US MIC.

    Russia is under no illusions who the bad guys are, and who they need to keep secrets from...

    You also need the sofwares and the source codes which Russia will never give to anyone. You can't guess what the computers are doing and a big part of why S-400 is so good is the computing.

    Indeed, and a lot of it will be software... how far away can an S-400 battery detect and track an F-35... well the Turkish system can detect it at X range, the Indian system can detect it at Y range and the Chinese system can detect it at Z range... but those distances will depend on what each country demanded regarding the specs for the system, and pretty much comes down to how much they paid for it... pay more and get better range... but you wont get the same range the Russians are getting...

    Chinese reverse engineered will be MUCH cheaper but also much more bad. That was proven by anything china copied from small arms to jets. Their military industry suck and everyone knows that.

    That is a bit harsh... many weapons are simple and easier to copy. State of the art things like aircraft engines are not so simple and require expertise in a range of areas... it is not just a case of replication of parts and assembling them together...

    China still buys jet engines from Russia... If China was to invest a few billion dollars on jet engine technology they could master that too...

    Won't it make more sense for Russia to derive a light stealth fighter jet with small internal bays from the MiG-21? Mig-21 already has a small radar cross section.

    If you want stealth it makes more sense to start from scratch. If you could turn any aircraft into a stealth aircraft then it would be done that way. It isn't. You can make any current design more stealthy but it has the problem of the law of diminished returns.

    In other words you can spend $1,000 dollars and make any piece of crap car run, you can spend $10,000 dollars on that car and make it look tidy, you can spend $100,000 dollars and make it fast, but you reach limits where further improvements get much much more expensive and don't really improve performance as much as the earlier cheaper changes.... in other words the cost goes way up and the improvements become less and less everytime so soon it is not really worth trying to upgrade it further.

    It makes more sense to start with a new design from scratch to get a great design for less outlay.

    Small fighter with weapons bay are a waste of time. F-16 and mig-29 were already very short legs and obliged development of conformal fuel tanks and SMT upgrade.

    With a lighter jet with weapons bay it would be already worse.

    And that is the key... you probably couldn't make a light stealth fighter that is worth anything useful... medium stealth fighter is the best you could probably achieve but don't make it light and don't expect it to be cheap, though it can be made more affordable than the heavy fighter.

    If you treat it like the PAK DA bomber... the PAK DA bomber mixes two roles... theatre bomber and strategic bomber... it can do this because the former demands a large bomb load but over moderate flight ranges, while the latter is a more modest strategic weapon load with a larger fuel load.

    With a medium fighter you can trade fuel and weapons loads for different roles... less fuel and more weapons at the start of the conflict to deal with lots of enemy aircraft and cruise missile/standoff missile attacks, and later on less weapons and more fuel to patrol airspace and deal with threats that present themselves.

    Internal weapons and fuel minimise RCS and drag, which allows medium to high altitude operations where speed and range are maximised.

    I think Russia (unlike the USSR) sees this latest cold war as mainly a clash for long term economic benefits/realignment....strictly military considerations are of secondary importance.

    Well they don't need to worry about selling an ideology, though the west still does, which makes things harder for the west amusingly... they are trying to sell western culture to the world... consumerism and amusingly tolerance and understanding of others... or we will bomb you and put you under economic sanctions and make you poor.

    avatar
    Vann7

    Posts : 4166
    Points : 4270
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:55 am

    [quote="andalusia"]
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    I read somewhere that Vann7 said that Brazil and Russia were going to have a joint collaboration with a Brazilian aero company and Sukhoi to build the SU 57.  With this new right wing reactionary president in power who professes to be a fan of Trump and America; he could have sold the secrets to the Pentagon and Russian air force would be compromised.  

    Thats correct.. It was RT quick headlines ,that rotates in their main page where i read it.
    Putin offered dilma ruseff , the previous Brazilian President the blue prints and a manufacturing plant in Brazil to build SU-57 planes. It was a huge risk.. what he was proposing , because US Could easily buy /spy and get the secrets from another or
    a right wing government betray Russia.. and it didn't took long for a right wing government
    to take power.. So Putin's ignorance and naiveness is a major danger for Russia national security.. Is a very huge blunder what he played ,and for the only reason it did not blow back
    on his face is because Brazil had no money to buy and did not accept the offer.

    But truly had She accepted the deal. .Right now The pentagon and Israel will have the blue prints and a copy of Su-57 on their hangers.. and understand every thing ,there is to know about it.. Even it was a major mistake allow India to get hands on Russia supersonic missiles Brahmos.. Which is a modified version of export version of Onyx missiles..

    The biggest blessing and curse of Russia is called Vladimir Putin..
    A blessing because he is patriotic and cares about Russia and defend Russia sovereignty.
    A Curse for his massive Ignorance , his lack of understanding how to Counter the western system.. and his total absolute passiveness with the US empire. .

    The only possible options that exist for Russia are..
    To fix their bad relations with the West are..

    1) Confront the hostilities with force.. that is declaration of war..
    2) or He can confront the hostilities with targeting the US major influence..
    by offering a atrong alternative their popular business that the world likes , and allows
    US Empire to influence the world towards their Orbit.. This is US high tech industry and
    Entertainment industry.
    3)Or he can do nothing ,and hope for time "fix things on its own". which is a complete
    foolishness.. time never fix problems.. on its own... it means to continue receiving
    endless sanctions and more proxy wars as Ukraine and Syria ..

    Putin is doing the #3 one. he is not fighting back.. He is not countering the US influence
    in the world.. He needs to look at China huawei.. How that company alone is opening the doors to China much more wider and open , that Russia could hope. Russia needs a leader with vision ,that understand ,that every nation in the world is not made on stone.. that every country without an exception can be influenced.. and the lack of leadership of Russia in popular with society business , is what is making things more difficult for Russia.. to get the respect they want.. Putin hoped that his Olympics was going to make NATO fall in love with Russia.. No and later he tried with Hypersonic missiles.. No he simply don't understand the west.. how to influence them.. China is doing far better job than Russia
    influencing the west.. Even Mexico wants China to modernize their country communications.
    and Brazil ,did not rejected Chinese business either.. So is proof ,that leadership in business can be used as a weapon to influence other nations. and the more popular is the business among society ,the more the influence in that society .


    avatar
    Vann7

    Posts : 4166
    Points : 4270
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:55 am

    andalusia wrote:

    I read somewhere that Vann7 said that Brazil and Russia were going to have a joint collaboration with a Brazilian aero company and Sukhoi to build the SU 57.  With this new right wing reactionary president in power who professes to be a fan of Trump and America; he could have sold the secrets to the Pentagon and Russian air force would be compromised.  

    Thats correct.. It was RT quick headlines ,that rotates in their main page where i read it.
    Putin offered dilma ruseff , the previous Brazilian President the blue prints and a manufacturing plant in Brazil to build SU-57 planes.  It was a huge risk.. what he was proposing , because US Could easily buy /spy and get the secrets from another or
    a right wing government betray Russia.. and it didn't took long for a right wing government
    to take power..  So Putin's ignorance and naiveness is a major danger for Russia national security.. Is a very huge blunder what he played ,and for the only reason it did not blow back
    on his face is because Brazil had no money to buy and did not accept the offer.

    But truly had She accepted the deal. .Right now The pentagon and Israel will have the blue prints and a copy of Su-57 on their hangers.. and understand every thing ,there is to know about it.. Even it was a major mistake allow India to get hands on Russia supersonic missiles Brahmos.. Which is a modified version of export version of Onyx missiles..

    The biggest blessing and curse of Russia is called Vladimir Putin..
    A blessing because he is patriotic and cares about Russia and defend Russia sovereignty.
    A Curse for his massive Ignorance , his lack of understanding how to Counter the western system.. and his total absolute passiveness with the US empire. .

    The only possible options that exist for Russia are..
    To fix their bad relations with the West are..

    1) Confront the hostilities with force.. that is declaration of war..
    2) or He can confront the hostilities with targeting the US major influence..
       by offering a atrong alternative their popular business that the world likes , and allows
       US Empire to influence the world towards their Orbit.. This is US high tech industry and
       Entertainment industry.
    3)Or he can do nothing ,and hope for time "fix things on its own". which is a complete
      foolishness.. time never fix problems.. on its own... it means to continue receiving
      endless sanctions and more proxy wars as Ukraine and Syria ..

    Putin is doing the #3 one. he is not fighting back.. He is not countering the US influence
    in the world.. He needs to look at China huawei.. How that company alone is opening the doors to China much more wider and open , that Russia could hope. Russia needs a leader with vision ,that understand ,that every nation in the world is not made on stone.. that every country without an exception can be influenced..  and the lack of leadership of Russia in popular with society business , is what is making things more difficult for Russia.. to get the respect they want..  Putin hoped that his Olympics was going to make NATO  fall in love with Russia..  No  and later he tried with Hypersonic missiles..  No   he simply don't understand the west.. how to influence them.. China is doing far better job than Russia
    influencing the west.. Even Mexico wants China to modernize their country communications.
    and Brazil ,did not rejected Chinese business either..  So is proof ,that leadership in business can be used as a weapon to influence other nations. and the more popular is the business among society ,the more the influence in that society . Russia needs an economy oriented towards Ordinary people.. Things that they will truly like to spend their hard earned money. because people can't buy Tanks.. or Nuclear reactors or stealth jets..  weapons are needed when leadership and influence fails.

    If Putin targeted American Silicon Valley business since he came to power in 2000 ,
    long time ago NATO will have been disbanded.. No one in Europe choose Americans over Russia because their shit smell better.. but because US have much better civilian business than Russia.. (no contest) for their nation development..

    if they want a car.. US have better cars..
    If they want Audio Visual system.. US have better ones..
    If they want Internet..  Only US have it..
    If they want entertainment.. US is the leader in Entertainment.
    If they want  elctronics .. US is very strong electronics..

    and to make things worse.. Americans used their politics and military power and Regime change tactics ,to get an alliance with the other most developed asian nations.. Like Japan ,South korea ,taiwan.. that leads the world in High Tech... So they control world technology with their alliances. and Russia is mostly followed by under developed rejected nations..

    If they want to follow a nation with more future looking business. US is that country
    and Not Russia..  This is the problem with Putin's Russia.. is not a bigger economy what will make Russia a better choice ,than US.. but leadership..  The nation that leads and influence better Europe with their business ,is the one that will get Europe in their orbit.. and Europe is important , because without it.. NATO can't exist.  Cool
    So this is why Huawei is banned by Americans.. and why US wants the entire world to do the same.. because is a very influential Business.. and it will steal away the leadership of US
    in the world.. (their major influence).   So replacing the bank ,raising the interest or lowering them.. breaking banana records.. winning more olympics.. better nukes or prettier parks  , is not what will make Europe to Abandon The US orbit ,for the Russian one..
    Only leadership is what will do that.. Better business will also modernize Russia culture too..
    and that will influence Europe to finally drop ,the US system.  And this will be a positive thing for everyone.. including Americans.. citizens.. because will end the wars.. and will end NATO..will end the sanctions and trade wars.. the day Europe forms an alliance with Russia.
    and a new multi Polar world will replace it.. with a new United Nations , moved to Europe or Russia.. a new world system created.. that is more fair and more focused in business.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 5265
    Points : 5418
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:10 am

    kvs you'll love this one:

    Lying SOB's:

    Western propaganda - Page 40 D_iSDOsXYAE-na4
    Western propaganda - Page 40 D_iSD3YXsAID2Wx


    The Truth:

    Western propaganda - Page 40 D_iSEPhWkAAm-Gu
    Aristide
    Aristide

    Posts : 728
    Points : 804
    Join date : 2017-12-31
    Age : 22
    Location : Aix-en-Provence

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Aristide on Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:28 am

    I will be honest...

    what shocks and amazes me most is the amount of hate i often see here. Cobalt bombs? Really?

    Nobody in Europe wants destroy Russia. We are not interested in Russian lands.

    Dont you see where such nonsense leads too? A mistake can be enough to create irreversable damage to mankind and earth as a whole.

    I think this kind of thinking is called paranoia.

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:12 pm

    But that is your problem... like most of your fellow euro morons you don't comprehend the obvious even when it is plainly spelled out for you.

    Cobalt bombs don't suit the west because they are interested in ruling the entire world... they want the resources of Russia, their problem is that they can't walk in and just take it like they have over the last few hundred years when the natives were stupid and signed shit when they should have spoken to lawyers.

    Cobalt bombs suit the Russians because they have not interest in capturing or occupying the west or invasion of any kind, their reasons for destroying the west are to literally just that... remove it as a threat. The west has made it clear it does not want to communicate or cooperate or build any useful relationship... it expects Russia to do as it is told which will largely result in Russia remaining a poor country and its wealth syphoned from it by the chosen few western 1% elite billionaires so they can achieve their goal of becoming trillionaires.

    Russia knows when it uses its nukes that it is already going to be destroyed... the American and British and French nukes are probably already on their way, so their nuclear response is not about making this right... the best thing their nuclear response can do is make the west realise their chances of surviving the attack are zero so they wont launch their attack in the first place.

    In other words the Russian response has to be dire because if it was trivial the west might think they could survive it... making a nuclear war much more likely.

    Russia developing doomsday devices is not about destroying the world... it is about making the west realise they wont win a nuclear war and that it is not worth starting in the first place.

    The goal is prevention. There is no expectation or intended purpose to "win"... it is only when it is clear everyone loses that no body tries.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:14 pm

    BTW your response is amusing in this context... what has changed... you are happy to see the natives of your various colonies around the world suffer in poverty so that you can have nice holidays on pristine beaches with cold drinks... will you give the Russian people better living conditions when they become the energy and mineral resource that fuels the growth of the EU in your living space in the east?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:16 pm

    kvs you'll love this one:

    Bend every story to suit their narrative... a bit pathetic really... trying to claim the rebels are the nazis...
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4788
    Points : 4909
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    kvs you'll love this one:

    Bend every story to suit their narrative... a bit pathetic really... trying to claim the rebels are the nazis...

    Intellectually insulting fiction is what the NATO MSM is today. Orwellian revisionism in full force on basically any key
    subject. Then this MSM is not happy when its market share disappears by huge percentages every year. Not all humans are
    congenital idiots to lap up transparent BS.

    Aristide
    Aristide

    Posts : 728
    Points : 804
    Join date : 2017-12-31
    Age : 22
    Location : Aix-en-Provence

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Aristide on Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:But that is your problem... like most of your fellow euro morons you don't comprehend the obvious even when it is plainly spelled out for you.

    Cobalt bombs don't suit the west because they are interested in ruling the entire world... they want the resources of Russia, their problem is that they can't walk in and just take it like they have over the last few hundred years when the natives were stupid and signed shit when they should have spoken to lawyers.

    Cobalt bombs suit the Russians because they have not interest in capturing or occupying the west or invasion of any kind, their reasons for destroying the west are to literally just that... remove it as a threat. The west has made it clear it does not want to communicate or cooperate or build any useful relationship... it expects Russia to do as it is told which will largely result in Russia remaining a poor country and its wealth syphoned from it by the chosen few western 1% elite billionaires so they can achieve their goal of becoming trillionaires.

    Russia knows when it uses its nukes that it is already going to be destroyed... the American and British and French nukes are probably already on their way, so their nuclear response is not about making this right... the best thing their nuclear response can do is make the west realise their chances of surviving the attack are zero so they wont launch their attack in the first place.

    In other words the Russian response has to be dire because if it was trivial the west might think they could survive it... making a nuclear war much more likely.

    Russia developing doomsday devices is not about destroying the world... it is about making the west realise they wont win a nuclear war and that it is not worth starting in the first place.

    The goal is prevention. There is no expectation or intended purpose to "win"... it is only when it is clear everyone loses that no body tries.

    Why do you always need to use insult? Im not a moron and my people are not morons.

    As i said, psychosis and paranoia. Nobody wants conquer Russia.

    We buy russian gas and oil. A large part of russian income is from trade with us.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:31 am

    Why do you always need to use insult? Im not a moron and my people are not morons.

    As i said, psychosis and paranoia. Nobody wants conquer Russia.

    We buy russian gas and oil. A large part of russian income is from trade with us.

    But you are acting like a moron.... on this page alone is clear evidence of the original story and then almost the entire range of western news agencies from Britain and the US clearly lying about important details of the story... show me that happening on RT or Sputnik...

    There was a big conference on press freedom held in the country currently holding Assange in jail for being a journalist, that banned RT and Sputnik from the conference for publishing fake news and we have evidence on this page of all the major western newspapers publishing fake news...


    Russia does trade with the EU, but trade levels have dropped enormously because of sanctions imposed by the EU blaming Russia for the problems created in the Ukraine by the US government overthrowing the legally elected government of Ukraine.

    That violates all your morals and ideals regarding freedoms and democracy... it basically shows you are a moron and don't understand the principles you pretend to uphold and cheer for around the world, or you are a bunch of bastards who use your morality when it suits, to punish others, but you never let it get in the way of you making money.

    If I was Russia I would cancel Nord Stream 2... let the EU pay four times more for energy... it will make the EU much less competitive on the international market... there are plenty of Asian countries who want cheap piped Russian gas... And of course Russia can liquefy their gas too... it wont be as cheap as piped gas but they can still undercut any price the Americans can offer to sell it for...

    I insult because Europeans are thick as pig shit... you are being used by America to maintain their economic and political and military position in the world despite running their economy like a 2 year old would. They will collapse, and then where will you be?

    By then you might drop all your sanctions against Russia but by then they will have looked elsewhere for the things they need like food or high speed train technology.

    When the EU drops their sanctions... EU farmers will likely be the main reason this happens... the Russians will of course immediately drop their sanctions, but I am afraid those EU farmers are in for a shock because they likely think they can go in and flood the Russian market with their food, but Russian farmers are not the small weak group they were in 2013, they have grown up and gotten strong and had a market to supply... which they largely did... dropping sanctions means EU access to Russian markets but also Russian access to EU markets... I rather suspect sales of EU foodstuffs in Russia wont be the same as they were and Russian food sales in the EU might actually be very competitive with local produce because of the value of the Rouble...

    Dropping food sanctions might be the last thing EU farmers will be wanting.

    Be careful what you wish for...
    Aristide
    Aristide

    Posts : 728
    Points : 804
    Join date : 2017-12-31
    Age : 22
    Location : Aix-en-Provence

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Aristide on Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:03 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Why do you always need to use insult? Im not a moron and my people are not morons.

    As i said, psychosis and paranoia. Nobody wants conquer Russia.

    We buy russian gas and oil. A large part of russian income is from trade with us.

    But you are acting like a moron.... on this page alone is clear evidence of the original story and then almost the entire range of western news agencies from Britain and the US clearly lying about important details of the story... show me that happening on RT or Sputnik...

    There was a big conference on press freedom held in the country currently holding Assange in jail for being a journalist, that banned RT and Sputnik from the conference for publishing fake news and we have evidence on this page of all the major western newspapers publishing fake news...


    Russia does trade with the EU, but trade levels have dropped enormously because of sanctions imposed by the EU blaming Russia for the problems created in the Ukraine by the US government overthrowing the legally elected government of Ukraine.

    That violates all your morals and ideals regarding freedoms and democracy... it basically shows you are a moron and don't understand the principles you pretend to uphold and cheer for around the world, or you are a bunch of bastards who use your morality when it suits, to punish others, but you never let it get in the way of you making money.

    If I was Russia I would cancel Nord Stream 2... let the EU pay four times more for energy... it will make the EU much less competitive on the international market... there are plenty of Asian countries who want cheap piped Russian gas... And of course Russia can liquefy their gas too... it wont be as cheap as piped gas but they can still undercut any price the Americans can offer to sell it for...

    I insult because Europeans are thick as pig shit... you are being used by America to maintain their economic and political and military position in the world despite running their economy like a 2 year old would. They will collapse, and then where will you be?

    By then you might drop all your sanctions against Russia but by then they will have looked elsewhere for the things they need like food or high speed train technology.

    When the EU drops their sanctions... EU farmers will likely be the main reason this happens... the Russians will of course immediately drop their sanctions, but I am afraid those EU farmers are in for a shock because they likely think they can go in and flood the Russian market with their food, but Russian farmers are not the small weak group they were in 2013, they have grown up and gotten strong and had a market to supply... which they largely did... dropping sanctions means EU access to Russian markets but also Russian access to EU markets... I rather suspect sales of EU foodstuffs in Russia wont be the same as they were and Russian food sales in the EU might actually be very competitive with local produce because of the value of the Rouble...

    Dropping food sanctions might be the last thing EU farmers will be wanting.

    Be careful what you wish for...

    No, the problem is, you believe your own propaganda. RT and Sputnik write so much bullshit, that can easily dismissed as any other media. Often even a tad more.

    Assange is held because he raped a women and ran away. Lesson: Dont rape women.

    Trade with EU has not dropped, since its mostly gas and oil we buy and we buy it even more, since its cheap.

    Your words about Ukraine show how you believe your own propaganda. Its a power game.

    Russia wants rule over Ukraine. Europe wants rule over Ukraine. Ukraine ripped apart over this.

    You need two for a dance. We wont give up our side and you wont give up yours. Thats fine. The victim of the fight is Ukraine.

    Thats totally normal power games. This runs since beginning of times. Persian Empire and Roman Empire did same stuff with muppet states like Armenian Kingdom. And you talk like this shocks you.

    France currently kicks out USA more and more. Just look at PESCO. american companies are even banend in defense contracts here.

    And morals and freedom? What?

    Morals never played role in politics and nation running. I want the ebst for France. if this means we must squeeze out other, so be it.

    Russia doesnt cancel NS2. Actually Russia follows all demands we have towards them. They need the money. Its a mutual beneficial thing.

    As for russian food supply...you are in for a very rough awakeneing. A russion market chain wanted open in Germany and basicly got mobbed out. Media ripped it apart as cheap, dirty and low standard.
    The audience in western europe doesnt go for cheap. They go for luxury.

    We have a totally different life style.

    I dont know what Russians eat for breakkfast. But i eat croissant, salmon, mango, and stuff like that. The more exotic the better. I buy burger patties 200g for 20 €. Or some kind of fish where you pay 60 € for 100g.

    If Russia want enter french food market for example, they should try their rare stuff like caviar or that fish from baikal.

    Dont get me wrong Gary but i think you have not much knowledge how politics work. The world is not Teletubby land.

    Look at your own country Newzealand. Dont you see around yourself? We own Polynesia and New Caledonia. We bully countries like Vanuatu, Fiji or Kiribati till boiling point. From New Caledonia we lay claim on Vanuatu and Fijii islands and do in their sea as we please.

    Why? Because we can, thats why.

    You cried so much to me about something we did to New Zealand before i was born. So you should remember. We did blow up a ship in your harbour and killed a person.

    When you made it public, we isolated you. Your own closest allies Australia and UK turned their back at you, when we bullied you. They left you alone. And the humilation was not over.

    You handed us the guy and women who got catched by you and we send them on a tropical island paradise, where he made her a baby, so she was send home. And then he said his tummy hurts and he was send home too.

    You know why France did this? Because New Zealand allowed it.

    We play with Russia and Russia plays with us. We respect them and they respect us. This is what makes it interesting. No need for cobalt bombs and shit like that.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22085
    Points : 22629
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:33 pm

    No, the problem is, you believe your own propaganda. RT and Sputnik write so much bullshit, that can easily dismissed as any other media. Often even a tad more.

    They give a perspective of the stories they release that does not favour the rich and the powerful of the west, which is not really the same as outright boldfaced lying to their audience in the example above.

    No wonder you get upset here finding everything your media tells you is bullshit designed to make you hate any Russian leader who is competent, and the Russian people who support him.

    Assange is held because he raped a women and ran away. Lesson: Dont rape women.

    Those charges were dropped and were only brought up for political reasons. I rather doubt it would even count as a crime in France today... he had consentual sex with a woman but did not wear a condom, which she then claimed was rape... only in europe...

    Trade with EU has not dropped, since its mostly gas and oil we buy and we buy it even more, since its cheap.

    Figures Putin mentioned recently suggest it is estimated that Russia has lost 50 billion dollars in trade with the EU since the sanctions started in 2014, while it is also estimated that the EU has lost about 240 billion dollars over the same time period. He also mentioned agricultural sales in exports have increased to the point where Russia has not actually lost anything... EU farmers unable to find alternative buyers for their crops were not so lucky with many going out of business or indeed committing suicide.

    Your words about Ukraine show how you believe your own propaganda. Its a power game.

    Russia wants rule over Ukraine. Europe wants rule over Ukraine. Ukraine ripped apart over this.

    Russia has made no effort to seize power or take control of Kiev like the US has... Nuland bragged about the 5 billion dollars spent to pay for a coup... she even brought cookies to the execution of democracy there.

    The west and democracy are not showering themselves in glory there... in fact they are creating a rather bad impression all round.

    You need two for a dance. We wont give up our side and you wont give up yours. Thats fine. The victim of the fight is Ukraine.

    Thats totally normal power games. This runs since beginning of times. Persian Empire and Roman Empire did same stuff with muppet states like Armenian Kingdom. And you talk like this shocks you.

    I think it is amusing you think Russia wants the Ukraine... you are creating another broken country in Europe that will take many decades to fix if it ever can... enjoy having more nazis in the EU...

    France currently kicks out USA more and more. Just look at PESCO. american companies are even banend in defense contracts here.

    Yes, the little french poodle growls when uncle sam puts on her lead and takes her for a walk, but there is no question which end of the lead directs the walk...

    And morals and freedom? What?

    Morals never played role in politics and nation running. I want the ebst for France. if this means we must squeeze out other, so be it.

    Yeah, western values are written on two ply paper sheets...

    As for russian food supply...you are in for a very rough awakeneing. A russion market chain wanted open in Germany and basicly got mobbed out. Media ripped it apart as cheap, dirty and low standard.
    The audience in western europe doesnt go for cheap. They go for luxury.

    Good... enjoy the steroid based crap from GMO central, US of A you will soon be forced to take too...

    You cried so much to me about something we did to New Zealand before i was born. So you should remember. We did blow up a ship in your harbour and killed a person.

    When you made it public, we isolated you. Your own closest allies Australia and UK turned their back at you, when we bullied you. They left you alone. And the humilation was not over.

    You handed us the guy and women who got catched by you and we send them on a tropical island paradise, where he made her a baby, so she was send home. And then he said his tummy hurts and he was send home too.

    You know why France did this? Because New Zealand allowed it.

    What you don't realise is that real people don't like bullies, because they know if you will bully an enemy or a stranger then eventually you will bully a friend too... and that is not the definition of a friend.

    We remember that France is no friend to New Zealand... when you start a new war with Russia don't expect us to send any assistance... except perhaps to Russia.

    We play with Russia and Russia plays with us. We respect them and they respect us.

    They don't respect you. You can't even deliver a ship without permission from Washington and Brussels... you tried to interfere in the Nord Stream II pipeline because you thought you could get something more out of the deal and Germany basically told you to piss off.

    You have great delusions of grandeur... delusions of course they remain...

    No need for cobalt bombs and shit like that.

    Even more reason for a good doomsday weapon to ensure all of Europe is exterminated...
    Aristide
    Aristide

    Posts : 728
    Points : 804
    Join date : 2017-12-31
    Age : 22
    Location : Aix-en-Provence

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Aristide on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    No, the problem is, you believe your own propaganda. RT and Sputnik write so much bullshit, that can easily dismissed as any other media. Often even a tad more.

    They give a perspective of the stories they release that does not favour the rich and the powerful of the west, which is not really the same as outright boldfaced lying to their audience in the example above.

    No wonder you get upset here finding everything your media tells you is bullshit designed to make you hate any Russian leader who is competent, and the Russian people who support him.

    Assange is held because he raped a women and ran away. Lesson: Dont rape women.

    Those charges were dropped and were only brought up for political reasons. I rather doubt it would even count as a crime in France today... he had consentual sex with a woman but did not wear a condom, which she then claimed was rape... only in europe...

    Trade with EU has not dropped, since its mostly gas and oil we buy and we buy it even more, since its cheap.

    Figures Putin mentioned recently suggest it is estimated that Russia has lost 50 billion dollars in trade with the EU since the sanctions started in 2014, while it is also estimated that the EU has lost about 240 billion dollars over the same time period. He also mentioned agricultural sales in exports have increased to the point where Russia has not actually lost anything... EU farmers unable to find alternative buyers for their crops were not so lucky with many going out of business or indeed committing suicide.

    Your words about Ukraine show how you believe your own propaganda. Its a power game.

    Russia wants rule over Ukraine. Europe wants rule over Ukraine. Ukraine ripped apart over this.

    Russia has made no effort to seize power or take control of Kiev like the US has... Nuland bragged about the 5 billion dollars spent to pay for a coup... she even brought cookies to the execution of democracy there.

    The west and democracy are not showering themselves in glory there... in fact they are creating a rather bad impression all round.

    You need two for a dance. We wont give up our side and you wont give up yours. Thats fine. The victim of the fight is Ukraine.

    Thats totally normal power games. This runs since beginning of times. Persian Empire and Roman Empire did same stuff with muppet states like Armenian Kingdom. And you talk like this shocks you.

    I think it is amusing you think Russia wants the Ukraine... you are creating another broken country in Europe that will take many decades to fix if it ever can... enjoy having more nazis in the EU...

    France currently kicks out USA more and more. Just look at PESCO. american companies are even banend in defense contracts here.

    Yes, the little french poodle growls when uncle sam puts on her lead and takes her for a walk, but there is no question which end of the lead directs the walk...

    And morals and freedom? What?

    Morals never played role in politics and nation running. I want the ebst for France. if this means we must squeeze out other, so be it.

    Yeah, western values are written on two ply paper sheets...

    As for russian food supply...you are in for a very rough awakeneing. A russion market chain wanted open in Germany and basicly got mobbed out. Media ripped it apart as cheap, dirty and low standard.
    The audience in western europe doesnt go for cheap. They go for luxury.

    Good... enjoy the steroid based crap from GMO central, US of A you will soon be forced to take too...

    You cried so much to me about something we did to New Zealand before i was born. So you should remember. We did blow up a ship in your harbour and killed a person.

    When you made it public, we isolated you. Your own closest allies Australia and UK turned their back at you, when we bullied you. They left you alone. And the humilation was not over.

    You handed us the guy and women who got catched by you and we send them on a tropical island paradise, where he made her a baby, so she was send home. And then he said his tummy hurts and he was send home too.

    You know why France did this? Because New Zealand allowed it.

    What you don't realise is that real people don't like bullies, because they know if you will bully an enemy or a stranger then eventually you will bully a friend too... and that is not the definition of a friend.

    We remember that France is no friend to New Zealand... when you start a new war with Russia don't expect us to send any assistance... except perhaps to Russia.

    We play with Russia and Russia plays with us. We respect them and they respect us.

    They don't respect you. You can't even deliver a ship without permission from Washington and Brussels... you tried to interfere in the Nord Stream II pipeline because you thought you could get something more out of the deal and Germany basically told you to piss off.

    You have great delusions of grandeur... delusions of course they remain...

    No need for cobalt bombs and shit like that.

    Even more reason for a good doomsday weapon to ensure all of Europe is exterminated...

    But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

    Also you obviously dont know french media. French media dont tells me bullshit designed to hate Russians.

    They are often quite positive towards Russia. The most fire gets USA. You wont find a nation with a more anti american press than France.

    Because of that, the poddle comment is amusing. We kick USA out of defense. We force Germany to do the same and gave the the option, either work with us against USA or we drop our
    projects with them.

    Your comment abou european farmers amuses me. Comitting suicide? Who told you so? Pravda?

    We dont allow GMO in Europe and its France that has bans on USA imported crops and pushed this over all of Europe. We even ended free trade talks because of this. Its a core interest to keep american shit
    out of the market here and do that sucesful.

    Your comment about Nordstream II shows just that. France supports the project nd holds a hand over it. Only because of this, Germany was able to bring it through EU.

    Then a mayor american intervention happened, and the Germans needed french support to get it done...and what did we do? We saw our chance to get more out of it. The Germans did not tell us to get lost. The Germans followed our demands and gave us what we wanted.

    France and New Zealand are friends. After all, we are direct neighbors. I think your flight to Nouméa is shorter than to Sydney.

    Sponsored content

    Western propaganda - Page 40 Empty Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:10 pm