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    Western propaganda

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:40 pm

    Isn't it interesting that the generation that witnessed WW2 recognized the Soviets as the X-factor in Fascist defeat in Europe, while the generations that didn't witness (WW2) have the exact opposite opinion. Plato's Cave and cognitive dissonance at it's finest!
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:25 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Isn't it interesting that the generation that witnessed WW2 recognized the Soviets as the X-factor in Fascist defeat in Europe, while the generations that didn't witness (WW2) have the exact opposite opinion. Plato's Cave and cognitive dissonance at it's finest!

    I call it ignorance. They don't know any details about WWII history since they have not taken any courses or gotten any general education on
    the subject. Instead they regurgitate the popular media (movies, TV, casual news coverage) spin and narratives. The fact is that the Reich
    blew 80% of its military resources on the eastern (aka Soviet) front. It not only did not send any of its divisions to counteract the D-Day
    landings it had stripped large caliber artillery pieces from the pill boxes to use on the eastern front. The D-Day "allies" had a cake-walk.
    German forces surrendered and offered weak resistance in the west, but fought tooth and nail in the east.

    Basically a little knowledge is a bad thing. It is better to know nothing about a subject. At least then there would be less chance for a
    false opinion.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:41 pm

    There were divisions from the east on their way to the west. Then came the great summer offensive by the red army and the troops were turned back to the east. Without that event the d-day would have ended in the largest embarrassment for the western powers since galipoli.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:01 pm

    Hole wrote:There were divisions from the east on their way to the west. Then came the great summer offensive by the red army and the troops were turned back to the east. Without that event the d-day would have ended in the largest embarrassment for the western powers since galipoli.

    By 1944 it was clear that the Reich was losing. German soldiers where brainwashed into hating Russians and Slavs but not western Europeans.
    So resistance to the western allies was nothing like it was to the Soviet army. It is fair to say that Hitler's job was to bring down the USSR
    and not to destroy western Europe. The civilian death counts in the west prove this.

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    andalusia

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    Post  andalusia on Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:46 am

    Do you guys think Westerners particularly Americans overrate D-Day? When I was in school, their was a tendency to play down the Soviet contribution and defeat of Nazi Germany by saying that the USSR benefited from the winter in helping defeat the Nazis.  I understand that the major reason why the US doesn't give credit to the Russians is because after the war, the two countries became mortal enemies and that bad feeling prevails today after the Cold War.  

    Another thing is that if D-Day would not have never happened, would the Soviets have continued west conquering Western, Southern, and Northern Europe and placing their governments under communism? Many Americans believe this was a benefit of D-Day.

    Also, US General Patton wanted to continue marching the army and capture all of Berlin; was their a deal by Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin for the USSR to get to Berlin first? Moreover, when the US had a monopoly on the nuclear bomb in 1945, Patton wanted to invade Eastern Europe and push back the Soviets; would the Americans had succeeded in defeating the Soviets and kicking them out of Eastern Europe?  I would love good responses to these questions.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-D-Day-overrated-considering-majority-of-German-army-was-fighting-Soviets
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:22 am

    The german leadership knew what was happening on the eastern front from day one... it was their orders that were being followed after all.

    When it came time to decide which front to put up the heaviest resistance it is pretty clear they wanted to be occupied by the British and Americans rather than the Soviets because payback is a bitch.

    Do you guys think Westerners particularly Americans overrate D-Day?

    If you reverse it and pretend that western europe actually fought hard and well and the attack on the eastern front didn't happen... it was WWI all over except the british and french put up a much better fight and after 4 years of stalemate fighting over the Maginot line the Americans arrived and they started to push the German forces back towards Germany and then finally the Soviets declared war and started moving through eastern european countries towards berlin... clearly a ploy to capture land at the last minute when both sides had exhausted themselves... would you think the Soviets won the war because they got to berlin first?

    The west basically murdered old men, women, and children with their "strategic bombing of Germany" Campaign, while the Soviets were killing the German armed forces best and brightest on the front lines... well after the fate of Germany had been decided at the gates of Moscow and Stalingrad and Kursk, they landed forces in France to try to take europe... but not from the Germans... from the Soviets...

    When I was in school, their was a tendency to play down the Soviet contribution and defeat of Nazi Germany by saying that the USSR benefited from the winter in helping defeat the Nazis. I understand that the major reason why the US doesn't give credit to the Russians is because after the war, the two countries became mortal enemies and that bad feeling prevails today after the Cold War.

    Look at what researchers at your (American) war colleges think:



    It also explains why the west thinks what it thinks... it based all their postwar views of what happened on the testimony of the west german officers who joined NATO... ie it listened to the stories of nazis who needed to justify why they lost, without incriminating themselves with their new allies...

    Also, US General Patton wanted to continue marching the army and capture all of Berlin; was their a deal by Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin for the USSR to get to Berlin first? Moreover, when the US had a monopoly on the nuclear bomb in 1945, Patton wanted to invade Eastern Europe and push back the Soviets; would the Americans had succeeded in defeating the Soviets and kicking them out of Eastern Europe? I would love good responses to these questions.

    There are a series of war documentaries... well war propaganda actually made by Frank Capra or something that describes WWII but was written and filmed at the time and the views expressed in those movies is totally different to the views expressed today... it actually explains the change in views on who won the war as shown by polls in France then and now.

    The world was tired of war and even with the few nuclear bombs they had at the time going up against the Soviet air force with ammo and aircraft and pilots and flying all the way to Moscow or wherever you wanted to bomb (most of their other cities were so devastated you probably wouldn't notice a couple of nukes exploding near them anyway) it would never have worked... the Soviets had an enormous combat ready force that was relatively mobile... the moved a very large force to the far east and smashed the Japanese very very quickly and moved into enemy held territory at a huge rate.

    If the Americans really wanted to "save" the eastern european countries from soviet occupation they could have mounted D Day in 1942 when the Soviets were under heavy pressure and were asking for them to open a second front... they could have landed in Spain and moved by land into France to reduce casualties during the landings but they preferred to sit back and let the Soviets do all the fighting and dying.

    The US had the nuclear bomb, but no perfect way of delivering it that would guarantee it gets to where you wanted it... MiG-3s were not much good at low and medium altitude manouvering combat but for shooting down high altitude high speed targets they were perfect... the Germans lost a few high altitude recon planes just before Barbarossa started and assumed they were technical losses, but they were shot down by MiGs...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:15 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    kvs wrote:As with the Kharkov tank factories and the vanishing aviation and ship-building industries, Ukrainians are voting with their feet and not
    acting like good little cogs to prop up the Banderite regime.     The days of the evil clown show in Kiev are numbered.  

    The Kiev regime has been riding the Donbass "ATO" pony hard as it is the only thing it has to "give" the masses.   The economy is
    swirling the toilet bowl and now the "ATO" is losing its luster.    Aside from shelling civilians, the "ATO" is doing nothing for Banderastan.

    NATO's big plans aren't working out.


    That's OK, NATO plans in Russia is working out though.

    They got the loud minority to now protest on the 22/23 over a drug dealer who was arrested only because he is a "journalist" for a Riga based newspaper. And Yabloko party is trying to push through the Duma to have Crimea moved from Russia to "international". So pretty much shitting on the face of Russians, Russian state and the criminal code over separatism.

    And will the Russian authorities act? Of course not! Who needs a criminal code if no one will enforce it.

    When the protestors get the dope dealer freed then maybe there will be something to worry about. Until then, let them protest
    and make fools of themselves. Aside from this clown being some "journalist", they have no actual motive for putting him away
    for his "good work". Most Russians and people with functional brains can see this and so they will not throw themselves under
    the bus in the name of defending "freedom of journalism".

    Yabloko has been around since the 1990s and is utterly irrelevant. Its popular support never exceeded 17% and now hovers below
    5%. Shutting them down serves no purpose other than to justify NATO propaganda.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:27 pm

    It sets a bad situation though. Yabloko may have no support (they had 17% before? That's treason right there) but all liberals will end up working together if they ended up gaining majority in Duma and thus this is bad.

    What's even more sad about this case that everyone is all jumping in to get browny points for this Gulanov drug dealer. Even RT for fucks sakes.

    So what does that tell us? Society wants to legalize illicite drug sales if a "journalist" (anti Russia) does it. That's fucking sick and everyone everywhere is in "solidarity" with the guy, with many comparing him to assange.

    RT does, Bryan McDonald, Rania Khalik, RT head, etc.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:58 pm

    LOL

    Russian MVD capitulated. They released the drug dealer claiming "no evidence" yet the drugs we're on him and in his apartment. But they folded because of liberal opposition and media groups in Russia. Now cops are fired and so is anti drug units head

    Maidan will happen in Russia sooner than I thought.
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    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:48 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:LOL

    Russian MVD capitulated. They released the drug dealer claiming "no evidence" yet the drugs we're on him and in his apartment. But they folded because of liberal opposition and media groups in Russia. Now cops are fired and so is anti drug units head

    Maidan will happen in Russia sooner than I thought.

    Please calm down. The Navalny hamsters are hardly the equivalent of the UNA-UNSO Ukr Nazis. No Maidan will happen and this
    case is not going to ignite any revolution. In fact, the victory is too easy and will leave a bad after-taste in the mouths of
    the Russian majority.

    Given the trickery of NATO, it would not be surprising if this case was engineered to create a crisis. By letting the clown walk, NATO
    wins nothing. Emboldened hamsters are not the same thing as most people starting to drink the NATO koolaid.
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    Post  Hole on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:00 pm

    You could turn this into a nice little psy-op. Look at western countries (France, Australia, GB) reporters there are harassed or even persecuted for their journalistic work, but in Russia they are prevented from being charged.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:44 am

    kvs wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:LOL

    Russian MVD capitulated.  They released the drug dealer claiming "no evidence" yet the drugs we're on him and in his apartment. But they folded because of liberal opposition and media groups in Russia. Now cops are fired and so is anti drug units head

    Maidan will happen in Russia sooner than I thought.

    Please calm down.  The Navalny hamsters are hardly the equivalent of the UNA-UNSO Ukr Nazis.   No Maidan will happen and this
    case is not going to ignite any revolution.   In fact, the victory is too easy and will leave a bad after-taste in the mouths of
    the Russian majority.  

    Given the trickery of NATO, it would not be surprising if this case was engineered to create a crisis.  By letting the clown walk, NATO
    wins nothing.  Emboldened hamsters are not the same thing as most people starting to drink the NATO koolaid.  

    Come on KVS, this is a case of not seeing the trees in the forest.

    The libtards won this case and now Russian authorities are back peddling hard. They are still gonna protest on behalf of the "journalist" on the 16th even though he was released.

    So they now know they can stage anything and get away with it and force Russian law structure to work in their favor.

    https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3157135&3157135&3157135=&__twitter_impression=true
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:02 am


    Two cops that arrested him have been charged

    So there are two possibilities here: he was either released for political expedience​ or he was framed for crime he didn't commit

    If he was guilty and released anyway it means that Russia is a failed state so no point bothering over matters of state and every single citizen is on his own

    If he was framed then those cops should receive high double digit sentence because this goes beyond just bad PR and if they walk it will again mean that Russia is a failed state
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:05 am

    There will be no break down of law and order on the basis of this case. How can there be. Every criminal will now claim to be a journalist?

    Even if he was framed, Russia comes out smelling roses after this. It goes without saying that if this clown was a NATO stooge participating
    in a psy-op, Russia still wins by neutralizing the narrative.

    I really do not see how Russia loses from this case.
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    Post  PhSt on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:21 am

    It seems the liberats and NATO 5th columnists are already capitalizing on Golunov's release, Rolling Eyes

    Meduza says Golunov's release result of "unprecedented campaign of public solidarity"

    Soo whats next? another "unprecedented campaign of public solidarity" to oust Putin, Bring down the government and Balkanize Russia into tiny small republics?? angry
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:15 am

    PhSt wrote:It seems the liberats and NATO 5th columnists are already capitalizing on Golunov's release,  Rolling Eyes

    Meduza says Golunov's release result of "unprecedented campaign of public solidarity"

    Soo whats next? another "unprecedented campaign of public solidarity" to oust Putin, Bring down the government and Balkanize Russia into tiny small republics?? angry

    The protests in 2011 were vastly more substantial than this farce. They can claim "unprecedented" all they want. They have
    lost the narrative. This was supposed to be a prima facie case of state abuse of a journalist. Now all they have left is to
    yap about "unprecedented".

    As they say in Russian: "yazik kostei ne imeyet" or "the tongue has no bones". Which means all sorts of shit can be claimed
    and yapped about. Ever since 1990, NATO has had no hooks into Russia. Attempts to bootstrap a revolution (e.g. 2011)
    fail utterly since there is no real discontent. You can hear these 5th column maggots bleat about "corruption" but clearly
    that is not radicalizing Russians into some mob of useful idiots.

    The bottom line is that no rent-a-crowd, colour revolution is possible in Russia. Why do you people all of the sudden treat
    the Russian 5th column liberast press that has seen much better days during the 1990s and into the 2000s as being some
    existential threat to Russia now. All this talk of Maidans and implicit assertions that Russians are being herded by these
    stooges are simply nonsense.

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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:30 am

    kvs wrote:
    PhSt wrote:It seems the liberats and NATO 5th columnists are already capitalizing on Golunov's release,  Rolling Eyes

    Meduza says Golunov's release result of "unprecedented campaign of public solidarity"

    Soo whats next? another "unprecedented campaign of public solidarity" to oust Putin, Bring down the government and Balkanize Russia into tiny small republics?? angry

    The protests in 2011 were vastly more substantial than this farce.   They can claim "unprecedented" all they want.  They have
    lost the narrative.   This was supposed to be a prima facie case of state abuse of a journalist.   Now all they have left is to
    yap about "unprecedented".  

    As they say in Russian: "yazik kostei ne imeyet" or "the tongue has no bones".   Which means all sorts of shit can be claimed
    and yapped about.   Ever since 1990, NATO has had no hooks into Russia.   Attempts to bootstrap a revolution (e.g. 2011)
    fail utterly since there is no real discontent.    You can hear these 5th column maggots bleat about "corruption" but clearly
    that is not radicalizing Russians into some mob of useful idiots.

    The bottom line is that no rent-a-crowd, colour revolution is possible in Russia.   Why do you people all of the sudden treat
    the Russian 5th column liberast press that has seen much better days during the 1990s and into the 2000s as being some
    existential threat to Russia now.   All this talk of Maidans and implicit assertions that Russians are being herded by these
    stooges are simply nonsense.  


    When you have the media (everyone in Russia) support a guy when he clearly had drugs on him and then opposition meet with everyone to demand his release, then they release him through pressure, it shows that the government is weaker than it should be. And that rule of law only exists for people who are not "special". The simple fact that people rallied around a guy who works for a newspaper that is based from Riga, owned by that oligarch living in London who runs open Russia campaign, should tell you a lot.

    You know for a fact that they will do more of this.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:53 am

    This has been very poorly handled.
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    Post  par far on Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:59 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:This has been very poorly handled.


    WE don't know all the deals, for all we know, this drug dealer probably ratted out some people and this isi why he is being released.
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    Post  nero on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:45 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:LOL

    Russian MVD capitulated.  They released the drug dealer claiming "no evidence" yet the drugs we're on him and in his apartment. But they folded because of liberal opposition and media groups in Russia. Now cops are fired and so is anti drug units head

    Maidan will happen in Russia sooner than I thought.
    The possibility of it all being planted is beyond your grasp to comprehend or what?

    He's a nobody. Probably talked badly about someone local and 'higher up', they tried to get back at him and it blew over. Now people lose their jobs over it - it's a good precedent.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:29 pm

    nero wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:LOL

    Russian MVD capitulated.  They released the drug dealer claiming "no evidence" yet the drugs we're on him and in his apartment. But they folded because of liberal opposition and media groups in Russia. Now cops are fired and so is anti drug units head

    Maidan will happen in Russia sooner than I thought.
    The possibility of it all being planted is beyond your grasp to comprehend or what?

    He's a nobody. Probably talked badly about someone local and 'higher up', they tried to get back at him and it blew over. Now people lose their jobs over it - it's a good precedent.

    Is it beyond your comprehensibility that he may have wore gloves when handling the drugs and never took them?

    Sorry, but you don't "solve" a case in 3 days like this.  That is just beyond stupid.  And it came from pressure above then all of a sudden "no, he wasn't involved".

    Yeah, being planted is a possibility.  But here is the thing, who did it? Were they arrested?  Sacking cops before investigation is over is just ridiculous.  There is a thing called Due Process and this was not done in Russia.  Instead, they folded very damn quickly to liberal pressure.  And they decided to hold protests on Day of Russia in Russia.  Navalny got arrested at least. But of course he will be released on small charges which then he will counter sue in the EUCHR which they will demand Russia to pay him much more back. Hell, the liberals could have planted it on him, called authorities and got him into trouble just so they can create a situation. I mean, it is obvious too that the west was all jumping on this. Now the liberals and the west is calling it their victory.

    It is a huge scam going on and the Liberals are playing it hard.  I guess I cant blame them, they found a loophole and or cracks in the system they will exploit.  I would do the same I suppose.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:27 am

    This drug related arrest of a journalist has played out the only way it could.

    It was not Putins plan... Putin would not have come up with such a pathetic plan... this was clearly an investigative journalist who is basically getting paid to shame Russia and Russians and some members of the organisations he was "investigating" (read smearing with a broad brush no doubt) decided to deal with the problem.

    The cops that tried to frame him... if indeed that was the case will go to jail... we will probably never hear their side of the story... they are just pawns at this stage.

    Perhaps the real problem is that the Russians are not as ruthless as the Americans or British... in their cases they are prepared to kill to get their way... hense send snipers to Maidan, and of course Bill Browder has his accountant murdered before he can reveal the money BB stole while in Russia and all his criminal activities are revealed... not to mention the British offing a drug addict and then blaming the Russians for it... there is no end to the wests treachery sadly... but of course they are worse... they are on the way out and they know it...
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:03 pm

    Big profile sackings just took place.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:24 pm

    Western propaganda - Page 37 Chartoftheday_18339_countries_ranked_by_peace_level_n

    What a BS graphic.

    By what metric is the USA more peaceful than Russia? No, this is not due to domestic issues. Chechnya has not
    been an issue for several years already. And any operations against militants inside Russia have corresponding operations
    against militias and organized crime elements in the USA.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:34 pm

    Really weird.

    Just compare the big citys. Moscow is the second most peaceful large city in the world, only behind Tokio. Murican citys are warzones. Even citys like Phoenix or Salt Lake got higher murder rates than Moscow.

    EU states more peaceful? What about all these terror attacks in France and Belgium?

    Well, Canada is quite peaceful - for white people. Ask the "Indians" what they think.

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