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    Western propaganda

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:47 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    But i am pretty sure illegal and weird things aswell as criminal things happen way more in Russia.

    Dont get me wrong i dont hate Russia.

    I don't believe you hate Russia either... but sadly you are further evidence of how effective western propaganda is and how ingrained the western stereotype of Russia is.

    You guys think there is more rule of law in Russia than in the US?

    Ask any Russian how they feel about that Very Happy.

    Well how do you feel About it?

    To say that there is effective rule of law in Russia is to tell a cruel cruel joke.

    Our conviction rate alone is hilariously suspect.

    Your justice system seems to be a mess of the 90's cause Treason only gets a person 12 years max in Russia, while a person in US gets life sentence (Just one of many examples).  About as much as a murderer.  Russian law system seems to be strange.  Some cases do work in favour of the people and some work against them.  Either the system is indeed free and judges are just morons, or it really depends on the judge.  Judges in Russia have faced questionable deaths that revolve in some cases, so it is hard to say.

    I think the major issue here is the lack of separation between the state and the law.  Which is becoming a problem nearly everywhere (Many people in US wall street should be in jail, but are not as an example.  Brother of JFK had his convertible found with a womans body in it in the lake, no proceedings happened as another example).  I never heard of any small claims court in Russia, so I cannot comment.  But seems to be a real mix bag and indeed a mess compared to many countries. I just think there are too many loopholes in your justice system, hence people can get away with a lot if they know them.

    So that being said, Welcome to the forums Austin.  Hope this thread alone didn't turn you off.  We have some weird members here, but at the same time, this place is more open to talk than other forums.  That is the benefit.  Very rarely someone gets banned, even if they are blatant anti Russian or anything else.  Just do not make mistakes of those who do get banned by outright spamming and like our Forum admin Vlad stated, just read the rules and have fun.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:29 pm

    Judges in Russia pay massive bribes to get their positions. It is an utter nonstarter when they are supposed to be practicing the law.

    Treason is irrelevant. How many cases of treason are there compared to more "typical" violent and non violent crimes?

    Law itself have been molded politically at times, but even if we stick to current codes and laws, everything would be a universe better if the law was actually obeyed.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:32 pm

    TR1 wrote:Judges in Russia pay massive bribes to get their positions. It is an utter nonstarter when they are supposed to be practicing the law.

    Treason is irrelevant. How many cases of treason are there compared to more "typical" violent and non violent crimes?

    Law itself have been molded politically at times, but even if we stick to current codes and laws, everything would be a universe better if the law was actually obeyed.

    Interesting.  How would one fix such a system?  FSB to go down hard on the judges? Public shaming? Instant loss of positions? How does a judge supposed to normally get in?

    Werewolf
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    Effectivenss of western propaganda... AKA everything is worse in Russia

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:38 pm

    GarryB, can you move all the comments that have nothing to do with Welcoming Austin, and move them to a subthread named "Injustice Systeme here and there"?

    Thanks, GarryB.

    Nice title, btw.

    kvs
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    Vaclav Klaus: the West’s lies about Russia are monstrous

    Post  kvs on Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:21 pm

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9322652/europe-needs-systemic-change/

    Some sober analysis of the situation in the EU. You cannot accuse Klaus of being some Putin-bot.



    Klaus believes the EU is beyond reform and has called for it to be replaced with an ‘Organisation of European States’ — a simple free trade association which would not pursue political integration. He recalls his own experience at the forefront of Czechoslovakia’s Velvet Revolution in 1989. ‘When we started to change my country we quite deliberately did not use the term “reform” — we used the word “transformation”, because we wanted a systemic change. Such a systemic change is needed in Europe today.’

    It’s not just on the economy that Europe has got it wrong, says Klaus. He doesn’t agree with the western elite’s current hostility towards Russia, which he believes is based on a false and outdated view of the country. ‘I remember one person in our country who at one moment was minister of foreign affairs, telling me that he hated communism so much that he was not even able to read Dostoevsky. I have remembered that statement for decades and I am afraid that the current propaganda against Russia is based on a similar argument and way of thinking. I spent most of my life in a communist Czechoslovakia under Soviet domination. But I differentiate between the Soviet Union and Russia. Those who are not able to understand the difference are simply not looking with open eyes. I always argue with my American and British friends that although the political system in Russia is different from the system in our countries and we wouldn’t be happy to live in such a system, to compare the current Russia with Leonid Brezhnev’s Soviet Union is stupid.’

    He says, with finality: ‘The US/EU propaganda against Russia is really ridiculous and I can’t accept it.’

    Hannibal Barca
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    Watch and sharethis they try to hide it.

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:07 pm


    Werewolf
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:12 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:

    In responce to such covered agents working as "journalists" there was a program created that uses a databank of today known "journalists" who are in lobbys like Transatlantic agencies, Transatlantik academy, Münchner Sicherheitskonferenz, Bilderberger etc. pp.

    This program is called Cahoots, everytime you use google or wikipedia or anything and the program recognizes some Name of a suppossed Journalist and if it haves already a database entry you can hover the mouse of this name that is marked with a circle and tells you in which lobbys this "journalists" are operating. The program is relative new and database is small, yet.

    Recommended to everyone, if you read articles that show author names and you can check if they are in some lobbies and operating directly for them.

    This is how it looks when you use Cahoots and it recognizes Names with database entries.



    kvs
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    Hate campaigns against Russia in Finland and the west

    Post  kvs on Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:29 am

    Here is a post from another blog by karl1haushofer about a recent murder in Finland:

    Anti-Russian feelings have been steadily rising in Finland for a long time and the crisis in Ukraine have accelerated the process. Various internet boards, social media and newspaper’s comment sections are full of hateful and anti-Russian comments.

    The media is even “helping” the process by purposely flaming anti-Russian feelings within the population. All of the major media outlets are more or less anti-Russian with Helsingin Sanomat (our biggest newspaper) and Iltasanomat (biggest tabloid paper) leading the way, both owned by Sanoma group.

    Since Finland has a big Russian minority I have been afraid if they might be subjected to a violence or attacks because of this growing hatred. Many Russians living in Finland have been telling how they are more and more afraid of revealing their ethnicity in fear of aggressive responses.

    A couple of weeks ago a 58 year old Russian woman was brutally murdered in Helsinki. She was beaten for hours and finally her body was found at a shore of the Baltic sea. The mainstream media did not say that the victim was Russian until it was revealed in the social media.

    The murderer was found and his name is Jukka Romppainen. He is a 28 year old leader of the youth group of Finland’s biggest party National Coalition. The murdered woman was a neighbor of Romppainen.

    Romppainen is a known Russian hater in social media. His Facebook wall was full of anti-Russian messages. He was very vocal against the Crimean operation of Russia and had a lot of racist remarks about Russia and Russian people in his Facebook page.

    In spite of this the Finnish police does not believe that a racial hate was a motivation for this murder, even when it is known that Romppainen both hated Russia and knew that this woman was a Russian, and there is no other sensible motive for the murder. Also the fact that the authorities wanted to conceal the victim’s nationality speaks some volumes. It is not good publicity for Finland that the leader of a youth group of Finland’s biggest party brutally beat an old Russian woman to her death.

    I hope that this is not a new trend here where Russians have to be concerned about their safety. There is a lot of hate on the air, but so far things have not escalated to open violence against Russians.

    There is no analogue for this media hate propaganda in Russia. Westerners aren't being murdered by hate filled Russians venting
    their primitive frustrations.

    I read all sorts of outright lies about Ukraine and Russia's "invasion" day in and day out. The western media propaganda spew uses
    hate language and spins information to push the ridiculous narrative that the Donbas is a 100% Russian operation and not an uprising
    by the locals against the Kiev coup regime. NATO cannot allow its open support for the coup regime to be challenged by facts that
    expose both NATO and the regime as bloody butchers and war criminals. Various "human rights" groups in the west write reports
    on mass graves uncovered in formerly regime controlled territory in a way that makes it look like the rebels are doing similar levels
    of extra-judicial killings by using simple fudge words and without a shred of evidence to back this spin.

    Mike E
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:55 am

    Holy crap, that is getting pretty serious... 

    Thankfully I haven't seen much of that in my area. - Though US citizens are very critical (and idiotic) when it comes to the Russian government and the country itself, most of us have no feeling against the people themselves. At least not that I've seen. Either way, this is the direct result of a broad propaganda campaign and a populations that is willing to gobble it up....

    sepheronx
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:10 pm

    Mike E wrote:Holy crap, that is getting pretty serious... 

    Thankfully I haven't seen much of that in my area. - Though US citizens are very critical (and idiotic) when it comes to the Russian government and the country itself, most of us have no feeling against the people themselves. At least not that I've seen. Either way, this is the direct result of a broad propaganda campaign and a populations that is willing to gobble it up....

    Better red then dead, the Communist wich hunts, etc. Your country was worst than most in dealing with Russian's and or Soviet citizens. I still hear the same sentiments from your ilk. You may not have heard it, but you may not hear a lot when you have your head in sand.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:36 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Holy crap, that is getting pretty serious... 

    Thankfully I haven't seen much of that in my area. - Though US citizens are very critical (and idiotic) when it comes to the Russian government and the country itself, most of us have no feeling against the people themselves. At least not that I've seen. Either way, this is the direct result of a broad propaganda campaign and a populations that is willing to gobble it up....

    Your country was worst than most in dealing with Russian's and or Soviet citizens.  I still hear the same sentiments from your ilk.  You may not have heard it, but you may not hear a lot when you have your head in sand.
    "Was" - That's the key word in there. Back in the Cold War our country was extremely hostile to the CCCP and Russian's themselves, but that is a thing of the past now... I know a few Russian immigrants and not a single one has trouble living over here. If anything, having a "pro-Russian" stance on events is much more controversial. Sepheronx, honestly, I would see it IF it was prevalent here.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:04 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Holy crap, that is getting pretty serious... 

    Thankfully I haven't seen much of that in my area. - Though US citizens are very critical (and idiotic) when it comes to the Russian government and the country itself, most of us have no feeling against the people themselves. At least not that I've seen. Either way, this is the direct result of a broad propaganda campaign and a populations that is willing to gobble it up....

    Your country was worst than most in dealing with Russian's and or Soviet citizens.  I still hear the same sentiments from your ilk.  You may not have heard it, but you may not hear a lot when you have your head in sand.
    "Was" - That's the key word in there. Back in the Cold War our country was extremely hostile to the CCCP and Russian's themselves, but that is a thing of the past now... I know a few Russian immigrants and not a single one has trouble living over here. If anything, having a "pro-Russian" stance on events is much more controversial. Sepheronx, honestly, I would see it IF it was prevalent here.

    I would admit that the average person in US has far more to worry about, but it is prevalent in our media regarding Russia. Not everyone though gets objective news, thus there are a lot of people with the mindset that Russia = evil. There was an old viewpoint that during USSR, average person in US viewed Russians as a whole as evil commies, while in USSR the view was that only the US government is evil. After reading how US citizens are (face it, MP.net is a good example of them) feel about many in the middle east where they want to turn the area into glass, kinda gives me the impression they can change their viewpoints rather quickly towards similar with Russia.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:16 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Holy crap, that is getting pretty serious... 

    Thankfully I haven't seen much of that in my area. - Though US citizens are very critical (and idiotic) when it comes to the Russian government and the country itself, most of us have no feeling against the people themselves. At least not that I've seen. Either way, this is the direct result of a broad propaganda campaign and a populations that is willing to gobble it up....

    Your country was worst than most in dealing with Russian's and or Soviet citizens.  I still hear the same sentiments from your ilk.  You may not have heard it, but you may not hear a lot when you have your head in sand.
    "Was" - That's the key word in there. Back in the Cold War our country was extremely hostile to the CCCP and Russian's themselves, but that is a thing of the past now... I know a few Russian immigrants and not a single one has trouble living over here. If anything, having a "pro-Russian" stance on events is much more controversial. Sepheronx, honestly, I would see it IF it was prevalent here.

    I would admit that the average person in US has far more to worry about, but it is prevalent in our media regarding Russia.  Not everyone though gets objective news, thus there are a lot of people with the mindset that Russia = evil.  There was an old viewpoint that during USSR, average person in US viewed Russians as a whole as evil commies, while in USSR the view was that only the US government is evil.  After reading how US citizens are (face it, MP.net is a good example of them) feel about many in the middle east where they want to turn the area into glass, kinda gives me the impression they can change their viewpoints rather quickly towards similar with Russia.
    I'm talking about the people here, not our media or government... The MSM here demonizes Russia and (in certain cases) Russians as well as much as they can. Yes, the majority of MURICANS' here dislike Russia because of the Cold War and our MSM etc, but that's not what I'm trying to say. - The people here don't mind Russian people and their culture, which is my point... 

    MP.net is a terrible example... That forum is full of a bunch of hot-headed pre-teens that get all butt-hurt when someones disagrees with them. The Joe Shmoe American doesn't know crap about our forces anyway... 

    Many of us are opposed to intervention, more so intervention in the Middle East. Those that aren't are typically your average idiotic Republican on Democrat. Thankfully, almost every Independent here is opposed to intervention, so there always that to think about...............

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:18 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Holy crap, that is getting pretty serious... 

    Thankfully I haven't seen much of that in my area. - Though US citizens are very critical (and idiotic) when it comes to the Russian government and the country itself, most of us have no feeling against the people themselves. At least not that I've seen. Either way, this is the direct result of a broad propaganda campaign and a populations that is willing to gobble it up....

    Your country was worst than most in dealing with Russian's and or Soviet citizens.  I still hear the same sentiments from your ilk.  You may not have heard it, but you may not hear a lot when you have your head in sand.
    "Was" - That's the key word in there. Back in the Cold War our country was extremely hostile to the CCCP and Russian's themselves, but that is a thing of the past now... I know a few Russian immigrants and not a single one has trouble living over here. If anything, having a "pro-Russian" stance on events is much more controversial. Sepheronx, honestly, I would see it IF it was prevalent here.

    I would admit that the average person in US has far more to worry about, but it is prevalent in our media regarding Russia.  Not everyone though gets objective news, thus there are a lot of people with the mindset that Russia = evil.  There was an old viewpoint that during USSR, average person in US viewed Russians as a whole as evil commies, while in USSR the view was that only the US government is evil.  After reading how US citizens are (face it, MP.net is a good example of them) feel about many in the middle east where they want to turn the area into glass, kinda gives me the impression they can change their viewpoints rather quickly towards similar with Russia.
    I'm talking about the people here, not our media or government... The MSM here demonizes Russia and (in certain cases) Russians as well as much as they can. Yes, the majority of MURICANS' here dislike Russia because of the Cold War and our MSM etc, but that's not what I'm trying to say. - The people here don't mind Russian people and their culture, which is my point... 

    MP.net is a terrible example... That forum is full of a bunch of hot-headed pre-teens that get all butt-hurt when someones disagrees with them. The Joe Shmoe American doesn't know crap about our forces anyway... 

    Many of us are opposed to intervention, more so intervention in the Middle East. Those that aren't are typically your average idiotic Republican on Democrat. Thankfully, almost every Independent here is opposed to intervention, so there always that to think about...............

    Then the average needs to be more proactive in telling their respective governments to be careful in their foreign policies. But I do not see this happening.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:24 pm

    The average person doesn't, but many still do. Foreign intervention is quickly becoming a thing of the past, and I think that the US population is starting to realize that. Thankfully, unnecessary intervention like the Iraq War etc have helped to wake the average American up. More so when our soldiers are losing their lives......

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:26 pm

    The only reason why intervention is a thing of the past is because USA losing grip. Economically and militarily that is.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:57 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:The only reason why intervention is a thing of the past is because USA losing grip. Economically and militarily that is.
    It *should* be a thing of the past, US intervention is already digging its grave. The US has showed that intervention simply doesn't help, so what's the point of it?

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:03 pm

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-25/whatever-we-decide-disaster-us-france-admits-putin-winning-europe-blinked

    good read from French Ambassador to USA. Even though he states Russia is supporting separatists (even if it isn't quite proven), he states they are loosing grasp of this.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:33 am

    The US has showed that intervention simply doesn't help, so what's the point of it?

    You know this already but let me spell it out to you.

    The US government makes decisions on interventions and cares nothing about anything except itself and reelection.

    The Generals and other professional soldiers who climb through the ranks to positions of power train the people below them or at least control them for a period, but have no say in interventions.

    When they retire big companies hire ex generals and other high ranking military officers because they know they have influence in the military and also the pentagon.

    Those same big companies have enormous pockets and can wine and dine the particular members of government that decide who to invade and which companies will get the contracts to clean up afterwards.

    Bombing countries cost a half a trillion dollars or more, but most of that money was recovered in contracts to US companies to rebuild what was destroyed... either from the newly installed governments under US control and including local funds and US provided loans that dictate who gets the contract.

    Whether those companies get money from the bombed country or from the US "aide" to rebuild afterwards they will make a fortune which in turn finances their "contribution" to both political parties to ensure favourable laws get passed and contracts are given to the right company.

    If you think protests is going to stop that you are mistaken... most politicians care about their own pockets and if they will be reelected and that can be bought and paid for too.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Mike E on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:57 am

    Exactly that, but I meant to ask what is the actual none-corrupted benefit? There really is none, except for, like you said, lining the pockets of our politicians...

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:04 pm

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/757002

    Well well well. So US is constantly trying to hire Russian diplomats to join other side. Guess Russia should expose these people, and persecute them under Russian law. Put a US citizen in a Russian prison.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:03 am

    sepheronx wrote:http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/757002

    Well well well. So US is constantly trying to hire Russian diplomats to join other side. Guess Russia should expose these people, and persecute them under Russian law. Put a US citizen in a Russian prison.

    I've posted this fact already about a year ago, provided with a video where russian diplomats are going into US embassy on the very same day to some "meeting" and were all acting aggressivley/suspiciously to reporters when asked what they were doing there.


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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:24 am

    Exactly that, but I meant to ask what is the actual none-corrupted benefit? There really is none, except for, like you said, lining the pockets of our politicians...

    Actually bombing and destabilising countries with a lot of oil is good for the US.

    Even with countries unfriendly to the US that wont give them any contracts... if they want more money to pay for the damage they pump more oil which reduces oil prices, which is good for most western economies as cheap energy and transport costs always helps...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:55 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Exactly that, but I meant to ask what is the actual none-corrupted benefit? There really is none, except for, like you said, lining the pockets of our politicians...

    Actually bombing and destabilising countries with a lot of oil is good for the US.

    Even with countries unfriendly to the US that wont give them any contracts... if they want more money to pay for the damage they pump more oil which reduces oil prices, which is good for most western economies as cheap energy and transport costs always helps...

    Yes, but that is corrupted as well... My question was whether or not intervention is helpful for anyone involved, and I already know the answer...

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:10 am

    The interventions are never for the benefit of the people... usually the government has stopped cooperating and needs to be replaced.

    I realise many are claiming that the intervention in Iraq did get rid of Saddam, which they claim was a good thing... destroying a country and murdering hundreds of thousands of people... thousands of times more than Saddam himself was responsible for killing.... I am sure claiming it worked out best in the end and that justified it all in the end might help them sleep at night... but if the US did that here I don't think I could forgive and forget... and I really think if a foreign country did that to the US that the american people would feel any different either.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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