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    Western propaganda

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    sepheronx
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    Africans 'under siege' in Moscow

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:07 pm


    Africans 'under siege' in Moscow
    A woman walks past graffiti reading "We love you!" with a swastika mocking migrants
    Many African students in Moscow are afraid to go outside

    Nearly 60% of black and African people living in Russia's capital Moscow have been physically assaulted in racially motivated attacks, says a new study.

    Africans working or studying in the city live in constant fear of attack, according to the report by the Moscow Protestant Chaplaincy.

    A quarter of 200 people surveyed said they had been assaulted more than once. Some 80% had been verbally abused.

    But the number of assaults was down from the MPC's last survey in 2002.

    The report's clear conclusion was that Africans living in Russia exist in a state of virtual siege, says the BBC's Rupert Wingfield Hayes in Moscow.

    Extreme violence

    Many of the African respondents said they:

    * Avoided using the Moscow metro
    * Were also careful to avoid crowded public places
    * Did not go out on Russian national holidays or on days when there were football matches

    Many of the attacks on Africans were pre-meditated and extremely violent, the report found.

    One Nigerian migrant interviewed by the BBC had been repeatedly stabbed in the back and then shot.

    Another man said his attacker had attempted to remove his scalp.

    Officially there are some 10,000 Africans living in Moscow, but far more are believed to live there illegally - many as economic migrants.

    The Moscow Protestant Chaplaincy is an English-speaking interdenominational Christian congregation that has ministered to Moscow's foreign community since 1962.

    I put this into question. First off, I do not see any other news source to this other then BBC.

    Second, these immigrants in Russia they interviewed, are they now living in England or what? Cause if they are, then they could also be people extending the truth? I know skinheads exist everywhere (there are tons in Calgary, Alberta (here), but they are never mentioned. I have a feeling that this whole statistic is thrown way out of proportion. But then again, that is what news is good at doing. Did you know 70% of statistics are made on the spot? See what I am getting at? Easy to fabricate the truth.

    Edit: Also, it seems that this article did its job in providing fuel for the fire for all Russophobes I noticed on other forums. They are now going around saying "Russia needs to do something about immigrants being scalped" and so on. Funny thing is, who knows if it was a racily motivated attack? What if it was just a real screwed up guy? BBC wont say that nor will the russophobes. They now act as if Scalping is an every day business in Russia. And this is where our western nations and East will never get along; the stupid will always hate Russia and Russia will always hate us. To be honest, I don't blame Russia hating us, all our papers and politicians say is how evil they are. Maybe we should take a look in the mirror sometime.

    Edit 2: Now I re-read this, and saw where the interviews are coming from. Now, if someone from Russia that can tell me about this group, and what they are like? An english speaking group in Russia? Usually these groups are hired goons also known as "the free press" and "Humanitarians"


    Last edited by sepheronx on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Viktor
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Viktor on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:16 pm

    I guess in any city in the world you can find to beaten up foreign students thus making mockery of any state in the world. I would not take it to mutch to the heart.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:18 pm

    Viktor wrote:I guess in any city in the world you can find to beaten up foreign students thus making mockery of any state in the world. I would not take it to mutch to the heart.

    I ain't, but a lot of russophobes are. And I just want info about this "group" that did the interview, and see what their past records are like.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:27 pm

    I wouldn't put too much stock into it. This Amerikan protestant group is trying to make it look worse than it really is. I will admit, illegals of different races will be attacked often. The tactic, ask for valid ID. The people they survey are illegals who frequent their church while they harbour illegals.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:55 am

    Makes sense vlad. All I know is that it seems that whatever happens in Russia (like it would happen here in Canada or worst, the USA) gets more attention. Racial attacks in the USA will happen all the time, like in the poorer areas of USA and if you are white and not Hispanic or black, you would either get beaten or end up dead. Does that ever get media attention? Maybe in the movies.

    nightcrawler
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    Movie Russians need to Rebut

    Post  nightcrawler on Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:45 pm

    @ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1486193/
    The movie is very good on action & war machine visuals & depicts russian machinery on a large scale...but what about facts.

    Movie starts & claims to be factual so I want some clarification from Russian sides about the said FACTUAL genocides by the Russian military in Georgia. Plus I also want some answers that was it the oil pipe line that Russian feared to be handed over to west that led to conflict

    Pervius
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Pervius on Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:47 pm

    If Americans knew they were suffering because of all the US dollars and exports being sent to Georgia to buy them off as their friends......the US would be no more.


    Not even Russia has stooped so low. Americans themselves would be over in Georgia killing them. How much are those Georgian boys getting paid to work for DOD in Iraq? Really....gave them US Civil Servant positions?....thought those jobs were reserved for Americans....ahhhh I see....

    Hmmmm...see the Georgians making lots of Youtube video's driving around their new Japanese atvs that usually were sold in America....wow.....


    America's suffering right now because the money's being used to buy friends around the world. Bill Clinton's Quadrennial Defense Review cut US military and used Billions over the years buying off dictators and countries.....awww...Americans lost their jobs? No homes?

    It's ok....maybe they will end up America's friend....maybe they are like Vietnam and playing America as the sucker handing out free things trying to be their friends now.


    ""Genocide""....really? Why were +1 million Iraqi's killed? mmmmm oil.

    GarryB
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:06 am

    Movie starts & claims to be factual so I want some clarification from Russian sides about the said FACTUAL genocides by the Russian military in Georgia. Plus I also want some answers that was it the oil pipe line that Russian feared to be handed over to west that led to conflict

    First of all if the oil pipeline led to the conflict... why was it that it was Georgia that invaded South Ossetia and not Russia invading Georgia?

    I haven't seen the movie but the claim initially from Georgia was that Russian forces were moving into South Ossetia in a big invasion.

    The question then of course is how could the Georgian forces amass a force large enough not only to stop this Russian force but also push them back and hold them long enough to bombard the South Ossetian capital for 2 nights before the Russian forces so decisively pushed them back?

    If the Georgians were fighting front line Russian armour why was most of their equipment and weapons artillery?


    The facts are there was no Russian attack... it was a planned Georgian attack timed specifically to coincide with the opening ceremony of the olympic games in China... typically and traditionally a time of ceasefires and peace rather than a chance to invade and murder.

    The Georgians used artillery because as far as they knew there were only some Russian paratroopers there are peace keepers and rather than fight them one on one they wanted to fight from a distance with artillery knowing their enemy had no heavy weapons.

    Paratroops dropped behind enemy lines are generally dealt with the same way as they are usually well trained troops so firing at them with artillery is usually the best way to deal with them rather than drawing front line well equipped troops from the front to deal with them.

    If the Georgians had ANY evidence of genocide they would have taken it to the various EU courts. They had no evidence at all... which is little surprise... they had been using UAVs to recon South Ossetia and Abkhazia for months before and now we know why... they wanted targets for their artillery and attacks.


    And finally why would Russia "fear" a western pipeline through Georgia?

    Have they bombed Iran?

    Iran has pipelines taking oil from the Caspian Sea too. The west had no access to oil reserves there but Georgia offered a chance for them to take oil from the region... big deal. Hardly a problem for Russia.

    It is a B movie for Rambo fans. Evil Ruskies are coming!

    Pervius
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Pervius on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:56 pm

    This was my favorite photo of the whole conflict:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-seizes-us-vehicles-902432.html

    What a piece of crap that vehicle is eh? But 5 were free! Were they ever given back to the US? I find no news story since 2008.

    GarryB
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:39 am

    The humvees were a bit of a joke when they first came out.

    Their whole purpose was to replace the Jeep with something that was supposed to be a cross between an MRAP and a range rover.

    In other words a protected vehicle that could go anywhere.

    The result was a huge vehicle that was hard to manouver in narrow streets that was very heavy but not actually an armoured vehicle except in the even heavier armoured models that drank fuel like a sailor drinks booze.

    AFAIK they were not returned... and neither should they be. When was the last time the west returned anything that was captured in war?

    solo.13mmfmj
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  solo.13mmfmj on Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:05 am

    A classical american style movie .The bad guy shoots the bribe gets killed stuff like that, special georgian forces kill lots of bad guys .
    The soldiers with the white bandana on the hand were chechen paramilitary fighting for Russia?
    Do georgians have any hind helicopters in Afghanistan?

    Pervius
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Pervius on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:27 pm

    solo.13mmfmj wrote:
    Do georgians have any hind helicopters in Afghanistan?


    It certainly is possible the Georgians were hired via a Contract...to fly US helicopters in Afghanistan.

    Would explain the loss of helicopters! ha ha ha!!

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    US mainstream media & Gang of War Criminals

    Post  Guest on Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:57 am

    Under the Nuremberg Principles, later incorporated into the United Nations Charter, to which the United States is a signatory, the planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, which is defined as a war started against another nation that does not pose an imminent threat of attack on the aggressor nation or nations, is the highest of war crimes, for which the perpetrators are liable for the death penalty. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of those above acts is an equally serious capital crime.

    How then to explain the casual way that civilian and military leaders of the US and Israel are talking openly about plans and threats to attack Iran?

    The supposed casus belli or justification for such an attack is that Iran, which has a uranium enrichment program underway which it claims is to produce nuclear fuel for its new nuclear reactor (a completely legal activity for any nation under international law), secretly plans to further enrich uranium to make an atomic bomb. Yet that is a process which, even if it were to be implemented, would not lead to an actual bomb suitable for testing for at least a year, and which would not give Iran a functioning, useable weapon for even longer. (US intelligence sources say that Iran at this point is not even trying to make a bomb!).

    That alleged threat, even if it were real, doesn’t even come close to constituting an “imminent” threat of attack of the kind which might justify a pre-emptive strike on Iran, as is being publicly contemplated and threatened by the US and Israel.

    The simple fact is that the president of the United States, Barack Obama, and his top generals and cabinet officers, are committing a war crime every time they threaten Iran with attack. The president is also committing a crime of conspiracy when he sends his generals to Israel, which is also committing the crime of threatening to attack Iran and planning to attack Iran. This is because by discussing options for an attack, or by providing Israel with the weapons and delivery systems it would need for such an attack, as the US is doing by sending Israel super large bunker-buster bombs and bomb-capable aircraft, they are furthering that conspiracy.

    What is absolutely stunning is that this massive criminality at the highest levels of the US government is going on totally unchallenged by the US mainstream media
    There is not one word in the Times or anywhere else in the corporate media about the reality that such an attack would constitute the commission of a supreme war crime.

    But all the war talk and saber rattling, the only debate in the US media seems to be over whether the US is really planning to attack Iran, or whether it would join in attacking Iran if Israel were to launch an attack, not on whether such an attack by either nation on Iran would constitute a horrific war crime.

    There are polls, some of which show a majority of Americans to favor an attack on Iran by the US, but again, there are no pollsters asking Americans whether they think such an attack would be a crime against humanity.

    Never have the US media suggested that past horrors were war crimes deserving prosecution (though at least the House Impeachment Committee did consider charging President Richard Nixon with a war crime for invading Cambodia).
    So why should we expect things to be any different now?

    Kysusha
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  Kysusha on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:56 am

    Nuremburg was nothing to do with Justice – it was retribution and revenge – and the extermination of people who knew the truth [Holohoax].

    Since then, the UN and the ICJ has systematically displayed unbelievable bias. The Hague trials are a perpetuation of the Nuremburg fiascos.

    Anyone with only one eye can see that there actually is no justice in the world – otherwise the leaders of the Western powers would all be hung! Power, as Chairman Moa said, comes from the end of a barrel!

    Learn this phrase – “Might is right”. If you are going to oppose the world order, make dam sure you are going to win – Hitler was a prime example.

    GarryB
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:23 am

    Russia is not strong enough to take on the west in terms of force.

    In terms of military force and economics and political power and influence.

    Russia would struggle against china and the economic ramifications would put them both back 30 years... ie not to where they were 30 years ago, but to a place where it will take 30 years to get back to the position they are in now. in terms of their positions in comparison with the west.

    Western double speak where they talk about the greater good and right and wrong and good and evil but what they are really talking about is their own interests economic and political and more and more countries who liked the sound of justice and democracy and peace realise it was all just rubbish they used to justify the countries they stole from and walked all over.... it was the colonial language to justify their separation of the native from the land and its wealth...

    gloriousfatherland
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:46 am

    The US violates treaties signed nothing new here. Thats what happens when there is one superpower in the world that seeks globabal hegemony. Look at the Geneva convention on the torture of POW's in Iraq. They just bullS**tted around it using language of the document. When your the most unstoppable force on the planet, whose gonna stop your course of action? No one....

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:15 am

    GarryB wrote:Russia is not strong enough to take on the west in terms of force.

    In terms of military force and economics and political power and influence.

    Russia would struggle against china and the economic ramifications would put them both back 30 years... ie not to where they were 30 years ago, but to a place where it will take 30 years to get back to the position they are in now. in terms of their positions in comparison with the west.

    Western double speak where they talk about the greater good and right and wrong and good and evil but what they are really talking about is their own interests economic and political and more and more countries who liked the sound of justice and democracy and peace realise it was all just rubbish they used to justify the countries they stole from and walked all over.... it was the colonial language to justify their separation of the native from the land and its wealth...

    Russia don't have the need to take on the west with military force. Russia's president already stated it reserves the right to first Strike capability if it feels threatened by Nato's Action via the Strategic Rocket Forces and Navy. Russia will only get involved when important regional interests are at sake like its mediteranian port in Syria, or CIS countries are attacked.

    The West are brilliant at global control or as our good firend Col.Eugene Krushchev "managed chaos". The west most important weapon is their psychological assests proliferated through globalisation. These include mass media and the internet ans they have the most advance technology to control such assests and develop them to the maximum capacity. Media especially creates perceptions===========> controls the mind of their citizens==========>keeps the trinity between state, military and population. Its seems Carl Von Clausewitz's influence went very deep into their psyche of their modus operandi. You will all notice that the west wages a large media campaign prior to engagement or conflict . This is to preserve the trinity.They justify their actions in the minds of their population very deeply now so that protests on the scale of Vietnam that took place in the US wouldn't do so again so their population will be giving full moral support to their leaders action and the military.This is where anti-NWO countries like Russia fail to do so both internally and globally. Sun Tzu called this winning without fighting and this is the most effecitve form of warfare. This is seen today in the arab spring.
    So for russia to retain its superpower status it must reinstate its nationalistic pride into its soldiers and population as seen in its great anthem and for instance the pride to serve in Russian VDV. It must use the enemy's greatest weapon "globalisation" against them, subdue the enemy without skill and break their trinity.The advantages also western forces have again is that they treat/reward their soldiers better. However as conscription fades out this will not be an issue.


    GarryB
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    US mainstream media & Gang of War Criminals

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:31 am

    I don't agree that the west is brilliant at global control... I think the west is pretty good at convincing its own citizens that it is a force for good and truth, but I think most people in non western countries can see they clearly don't practise what they preach...

    I certainly agree that Russia needs a change in attitude in several areas and like anything else that will take time.

    Cyberspec
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    Russian Cyber Skills better than China and Israel - US analyst

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:20 am

    China Cyber-skills Are Improving But Still Don't Top Russia and Israel

    Notions that most Chinese hackers are simplistic and amateurish may be correct for the moment, but it is irrelevant, says a senior U.S. official who has been involved in classified airborne electronic and cyber-warfare since the Vietnam War.

    “There are some really good [Chinese hackers] that fall into the category of advanced persistent threats,” says the veteran electronic warrior. “The others in that category are the Israelis and the Russians and I’m not talking just about Russian Mafia which is good in the financial arena.”

    The information comes from background conversations with experts gathered for the Air Force Association’s 2nd Annual Cyber Conference in Washington, D.C.

    U.S. analysts have based their judgement on the forensic analysis of APT such as skills at getting through firewalls. They contend that in the upper category, the order of sophistication is Russia, Israel and then some of the Chinese. The number of penetrations by the Chinese overwhelm all the others, but the Russians put more focus on sophisticated exploitation schemes.

    “If you look at the educational background of the Russian [cyber-]mafia, most of them came out of the Russian Academy of Sciences,” the specialist says. “They’ve had a strong focus for a number of years.”

    Russia also flooded Israel with scientists when the Soviet government lifted its restriction on the immigration of Jews. They flocked to Israel and added new engineering and scientific life to Jerusalem’s technology base.

    The reason that Russia is rated higher than Israel in its cyber-expertise is the size of Moscow’s resources and its well-educated population.

    “Now China is putting a lot of resources into cyber,” the EW specialist says. “A lot of those [Chinese] amateurs that get caught and identified are probably all students that will one day move up into the APT category.”

    Arrow http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:a5aa328c-9f63-416f-9701-f82d59426269

    nemrod
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    Western propaganda

    Post  nemrod on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:48 pm

    Few weeks before I subscribe in this forum, i was among several people in the world strongly thinking that no russian hardwares could match with US weaponery. It does not exist an something abble to down F-15, F-16, F-18, F-4E. In the next I will explain why.

    Western Propagada: A tool very efficient

    If this was an area where western was far ahead Soviet Union, is the propaganda.
    During my youth, i was passionned by everything in relation with weapon, I tried to become pilot, however, as I had a glass, I was suppressed to pass tests in order drive an aircraft.
    Each weeks I bought several military newspapers magazins. I watched as I could, several tv documentaries about US wars Vietnam, Korea.
    The mechanism of western propaganda is, very, very efficient, not stupid, and very clever.
    In fact I've never seen or heard words, or sentences like "we are the strongest, we are the best, the others are...". Never i've witnessed of this kind stupidities.
    The system lead you to think that there is no things abble to match with US weaponnery. You will think that, they will never force you to think that.

    By for example articles like "F-15 is the best aircraft in the world, after... it has the more victories.", far in magazin you will see a mig-23, mig-25 downed. For example during documentaries about Vietnam, we heard..."For the vietcongs...punishment starts...we saw B-52 dropping bombs". In another subject ...."Israelis air force, are among the best of the world".
    For Israelis's auxiliary, during the bekaa's battle IDF annihilated 102 aircrafts syrian fighters-we will see after, in another topic, how, it was a pure lie-. Moreover, no use to back to images during the first gulf war, where US bombed, bombed Iraq again and again. After pictures with american soldiers smiling with an iraqi prisonners, sometimes with civils, happy to see the civilization comming to them.
    Adding all that images, sounds, you will lead, sometimes by force, to think that the best aircrafts in the world could only be americans. No one can match, moreover, the 90's decade with the soviet union's collapse, and the USA unfortunetly for us became the only superpower in the world.


    When doubts cast

    - My first doubts was, when I saw the success of Mig 21, Mig 23 in the world.
    - When in 2006, a little Hizbollah milice stop israeli invasion, and blowing many of their armor vehicles, and burnt many of their Merkava.
    - 2008, my doubt became a true reality, because we were at the top of US power, after that, reality recalled USA. Georgia, after US green light, attacked Russia. Do not tell me this is the jester of Tbillissi that has undergone himself this attack. It was the next step of US great middle east, and normally the next step was US air force, bombed russian forces, and after triggered a new world war. However nothing has passed, US staid muet, and things staid like that.
    - 2008 when the krach occured, it showed to the rest of world, how US economy is so weak.

    Father of western propaganda.
    The efficiency of western propaganda is to fight your doubts, by chieftly seduced you. They know you will be conviced.
    The master of western propaganda is not Goebbels but Edward Bernays. Goebbels is a dwarf comparing to Bernays.
    For more information you can download his books Propaganda in pdf version.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:02 pm

    Don't forget William Hearst and Douglas McCarthy the masters of anti-Soviet propaganda, The first taking faschist propaganda and spreading to the west while the other trying to portray socialism as demonic(utter stupidity) and starting discrimination against anyone with even minorly left political views.

    I too used to watch discovery documentaries about communism and military channel and I always had a feel they were BSing me to believe some preposterous things.

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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  nemrod on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:14 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Don't forget William Hearst and Douglas McCarthy the masters of anti-Soviet propaganda, The first taking faschist propaganda and spreading to the west while the other trying to portray socialism as demonic(utter stupidity) and starting discrimination against anyone with even minorly left political views.

    I too used to watch discovery documentaries about communism and military channel and I always had a feel they were BSing me to believe some preposterous things.

    Questions Kommissar:
    Thx, I ignored D. Mccarthy, W. Hearst.
    What would be your reaction when your learned a day, that Israel downed very easily more than 100-we will see next about this western 'israeli hoax- syrian aircrafts ? Furthermore it was said that most of downed aircrafts were Sukhoi, mig 21 and especially Mig 23 -B, and M, don't forget that, in that time Mig 23 was the backbone of many air force defense in the world- ?
    Moreover what is your reaction, when most of the time, when you read, and see any pictures, any tv documents relating Vietnam war, they always talk US weaponnery as for example about Phantom ? And about Phantom F4, all images, pictures depict it as an exceptionnal aircraft -that was not-, all images are beautifull technicolor, the rare images about Mig, when they are, you see black&white poor qualities, immediatly after they showed Phantom dropping its bombs during an operation like Rolling Thunder, or Linebacker.
    The message underliying that soviet weaponnery is weapon for tacky soldiers, and Soviet Union were very late, and innefective against western modern weapons.
    Once you saw other things than their filty lying figures, you realize that the contrary, soviet weapon are redoutable between experts hands

    PS: To Kommissar, by William Hearst, did you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Hearst ?


    Last edited by nemrod on Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:23 pm

    War is often called a game, but the stakes are death... very few people would enter an actual game where the stakes were their life where they had to use equipment that they knew was inferior to the other side.

    It is not just the west as we know it today... before WWII started most British Empire countries believed Japanese planes were made of rice paper and could not fly in the rain. The Zero was the best fighter anywhere in 1941, its problem was that it didn't improve and change when it came up against different enemies.

    The Germans thought the pinnacle of Soviet tank production was the T-32 multi turreted tank and the T-26 light tank.

    The point of course is that it doesn't matter how good or how bad your equipment is, it is how it is used... tactics... and how your enemy reacts too.

    German Panzer 2-4 tanks were inferior to the T-34 and KV-1 tanks they faced, yet they were still effective because they operated as a team with good communications... they called in air support and artillery to deal with targets their own guns couldn't deal with, or they bypassed the enemy strong points and left those problems for the infantry forces to reduce and destroy.

    The west is never going to admit to having inferior material, even when it is obvious, because they can secure local superiority in numbers, and they also have what are called force multipliers and of course good communications to allow them to be far more efficient and effective with their use of force.

    Even if Serbia had F-22s they still would not have won over Kosovo... NATO would simply have launched cruise missile attack after cruise missile attack against all the potential airfields it could have operated them from.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    nemrod
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  nemrod on Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The west is never going to admit to having inferior material, even when it is obvious, because they can secure local superiority in numbers, and they also have what are called force multipliers and of course good communications to allow them to be far more efficient and effective with their use of force.

    Even if Serbia had F-22s they still would not have won over Kosovo... NATO would simply have launched cruise missile attack after cruise missile attack against all the potential airfields it could have operated them from.

    The problem is Iam more than 45 years old, bac + 4 years in university, and I believed their propaganda.
    A few months ago, I was with friends talking about Russia, and I said them that Russia, is far to match USA, noone in the world could downed their modern fighters. No
    I realize how poor of me, I was far from the truth, because of the lack of culture.

    Back to Serbia, Iam near sure, Serbia will retrieve Kossovo, if not tommorow, it's after-tommorow, but one day, Serbians will free their historic land.
    If some of you, desires to understand the world that we live, and the propaganda's mechanism, I advise you Guy Debord, and his books la société du spectacle, it exists in english version, you can download it directly by Internet. The movie can be seen/or download it.
    But take care, it's a marxist-rhetoric, and sometimes it's hard to understand.
    He was opposed to the capitalist world, and soviet system. He was one the top universalist intellectuel international. Just as example, for him he considered the chinese soldiers on earth since Tchin era, is great hoax.
    In 1994 he suicided himself.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Debord

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle_%28film%29


    GarryB
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    Re: Western propaganda

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:02 am

    A few months ago, I was with friends talking about Russia, and I said them that Russia, is far to match USA, noone in the world could downed their modern fighters.

    Not that far from the truth actually... no country in the world would choose to take on the US military for fun or for practise.

    Of those that actually get the opportunity to do so it is generally up to the US who has the chance and they like to prepare and plan to minimise the chance of loses to a very high degree.

    Where the risk is high you will see the US not even turning up with fighter aircraft... Syria, and indeed Libya... so it is not just sensible enemies, but a sensible US that prevents US aircraft from being shot down.

    The US these days sends UAVs to do the job they used to send modified bombers to do (ie RB-xx), so the chances are further reduced, and finally tactics... they wont just send in a single fighter to enter enemy air space to duke it out and see who is the best pilot... they will start with jamming and cruise missiles to take down communications and command and control centres and then attack airfields etc so that by the time US aircraft are over enemy airspace the enemy air force and air defence network is already broken so it is never a "fair" fight.

    Of course in war there is no such thing as fair... a good example would be the superior coordination of German troops and artillery and air power during WWII... in the attack you can concentrate your forces in one small area and create local superiority which allows you to break the line... the Soviets used tactics to over come this... notably in Stalingrad where the close proximity of hand to hand combat was a great equaliser, where air power was no longer so effective...

    Any enemy can use such tactics to negate an advantage their opponent has... try to fight on Americas terms and they will thrash you... make them play on your terms and you have a chance.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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