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    Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

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    indochina

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    Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  indochina on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:50 am

    According to my knowledge Su-27SM2 ​​is modernized version of the Su-27SM generation to save Russia's defense budget.Electronic weapons systems and similar Su-35

    For Su-30SM images and new information released, completely different from the Su-27SM. The only difference is the addition of wings Canard. I think it will be for export and replace the Su-30MK in the global market.

    Su-27SM2 or 3



    Su-30SM

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    medo

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  medo on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:56 pm

    Su-27SM2 is more comparable with Su-30M2, because they both have similar engines without TVC and similar mechanical radars. Su-30SM is more comparable with Su-35, because they have both stronger engines with TVC and more powerful PESA radars (BARS and IRBIS) as well as more modern electronics.

    But all those flankers are multirole fighters.

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  indochina on Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:46 am

    medo wrote:Su-27SM2 is more comparable with Su-30M2, because they both have similar engines without TVC and similar mechanical radars. Su-30SM is more comparable with Su-35, because they have both stronger engines with TVC and more powerful PESA radars (BARS and IRBIS) as well as more modern electronics.

    But all those flankers are multirole fighters.

    Su-30m2 and Su-30SM?How our differences ?

    Su-30m2 as I know is the trainer version of the Su-30MK. With wings Canard and TVC!
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    TR1

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:41 pm

    You are confusing different variants from different plants.

    The Su-30SM is from the Irkut plant, where the Su-30MKI originates from. IT has canards and TVC.

    The Su-30MK is built at Komsomolsk, where they also build Su-35s now. The Su-30M2 is basically a domestic MK, has no carads, and no electronically scanned array.

    We don't know the exact differences from the Su-27SM2 to the Su-27SM, but it is certainly not as advanced as the Su-30SM.
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:17 pm

    The SU 27SM2 is the domestic version of the SU 35 . It is the stage two of the Su-27SM upgrade program.

    SU 30 SM is the IAPO-built domestic version based on the Su-30MKI
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:04 pm

    Sujoi- the Su-27SM2 has nothing (well, they are both Flankers ofc ) to do with Su-35.
    Domestic Su-35 is called Su-35.
    Su-27SM2 is the designation for the 12 airframes delivered from Komsomoslk, that along with the 4 Su-30M2, are analogues to the Su-27SM upgrade fielded by the RuAF. There are some cockpit and equipment changes, but largely they are the same.
    They are both not nearly as sophisticated in equipment as Irkut's Su-30s or the Su-35.
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:32 am

    TR1 wrote:Sujoi- the Su-27SM2 has nothing (well, they are both Flankers ofc ) to do with Su-35.
    Domestic Su-35 is called Su-35.
    Su-27SM2 is the designation for the 12 airframes delivered from Komsomoslk, that along with the 4 Su-30M2, are analogues to the Su-27SM upgrade fielded by the RuAF. There are some cockpit and equipment changes, but largely they are the same.
    They are both not nearly as sophisticated in equipment as Irkut's Su-30s or the Su-35.


    You are making a mistake TR1 . Su-27 is the Russian Millitary designation - and they allocate a 'role' suffix - Su-27UB, Su-27M, Su-27IB, Su-27K, Su-27KUB etc. - At the end of the day they were all Su-27's

    After sometime the marketing/PR deparment of Sukhoi started to use their own numbers - Su-33(Su-27K), Su-34(Su-27IB), Su-35(Su-27M) etc.

    The Su-30KN from IAPO and the Su-27SM from KnAAPO were rival designs for the RusAF upgrade . Su-27SM from KnAAPO won.


    Back in Feb 2006 , it was clarified in an interview to Interfax by Pogosyan himself that the SU 27SM2 is the SU 35 . Read their article below :

    Su-35 Airplane to Be in Demand in Domestic and Export Markets

    The Su-35 (Su-27SM2) fighter, which the Sukhoy OKB is developing, will be in demand not only by the Russian air force, but also by foreign customers, the general director of the Sukhoy Aviation Holding Company, Mikhail Pogosyan, has declared.

    “We thing that the new airplane should be produced for the Russian air force in the Su-27SM2 “technical aspect.” Work in this direction is underway actively, inasmuch as the aircraft will be in demand both in Russia and abroad,” M. Pogosyan told Interfax-AVN.

    According to him, “the need for replacement in the future of the existing fleet of Su-27 type fighters will require marketing in the period approximately of 2009 – 2010 along with the upgrade and overhauls and the order of new airplanes for the Russian air force.”

    M. Pogosyan noted that in the draft of the Russia’s state arms program to 2015, all emphasis will be arranged neatly on the developments and purchases of aviation equipment, based on the volumes of financing.

    “The Su-27SM2 is the next stage with a transition to new sensors and phased antenna array of the aircraft radar (RLS),” the Sukhoy AkhK general director emphasized.

    In the opinions of specialists, the Su-27SM2 fighter, which is intended for Russia’s air force (the export variant is the Su-35) is a heavy upgrade of the Su-27/27SM fighters. The installation on the fighter of new aircraft engines with a thrust up to 14 tonnes (instead of 12.5 tonnes) and new aircraft equipment, including the “Irbis” aircraft radar, will be a distinguishing feature of the Su-27SM2. The fighter also is supposed to receive new long-range missiles of a different class.

    It is planned that the Su-27SM2 will be a step in the creation of the future tactical aviation aircraft complex, inasmuch as on it many proposals for the fifth generation combat airplane will be perfected, Interfax notes.
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:59 am

    The Su-35 was originally called the Su-27M by the RuAF. That was back in the day of N011 and canards.
    Today's Su-35 is called just that, the Su-35.

    EDIT: OOOPS! Every time I wrote Su-27SM2 I meant Su-27SM3.
    That is the bird pictured in the opening post, and yeah it is basically Su-27SM, but new build.

    And yes you are quite right the project name for Su-35BM was originally Su-27SM2.
    Today it is simply Su-35S.
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:30 am

    The Su-30 branch of the family is based on the Su-27UB two seat operational trainer. Anything you add to either the Su-27 or Su-30 you can add to the other.

    The Sukhoi company can name their planes anything they like, but the official names come from the Russian military and Su-27S, Su-27P indicate fighterbomber and interceptor models of the Su-27. The S model has air to air and air to ground capability while the P models were for the PVO and had no air to ground capability at all... even dumb rockets and dumb bombs.

    Electronics and IFF systems are different for frontal aviation and PVO aircraft.

    The Su-27SM was a modest upgrade that was a cheap and simple way to improve the in service Flankers from fairly basic to fairly good multi role aircraft. The Su-33 was like the original Su-27 with R-27 andR-27E capability and R-73 for air to air, while air to ground was dumb bombs and rockets, the only upgrade over the bog standard Su-27 was the introduction of the Kh-31 missile in the anti ship version. Even the Mig-29C was more sophisticated than eitehr in service Flanker as it could carry R-77s. The Russian AF didn't actually buy any R-77s for operational use, but if they did the Mig-29C was the only aircraft that could carry and use it that they had in operational numbers.

    The Su-27SM upgrades are the equivalent of the Mig-29SMT upgrades in that they were simple improvements that made the aircraft much more potent and capable at minimum costs and could be done relatively quickly... which was a good way of improving the general performance of the AF without having to wait years for new planes to be produced.

    At the end of the day the comparison between Su-27SM2 and Su-30SM is that the latter has two seats.


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    indochina

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  indochina on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:43 pm

    So the answer end of same Su-27SM2 ​​/ 3 is a partner of the Su-30SM!this is similar to the Su-30MKI and the Su-30MKK to compete between KnAAPO and Napo for the export market!

    I do not see any difference apart from the Su-30SM with double wheels and Canard. Load of weapons and they do not have specific information, but I'm sure are in the range of 8 tons of Flanker family. Or if there is a difference, it can only be located in the avionics and radar aircraft

    indochina

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  indochina on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:46 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Su-30 branch of the family is based on the Su-27UB two seat operational trainer. Anything you add to either the Su-27 or Su-30 you can add to the other.

    The Sukhoi company can name their planes anything they like, but the official names come from the Russian military and Su-27S, Su-27P indicate fighterbomber and interceptor models of the Su-27. The S model has air to air and air to ground capability while the P models were for the PVO and had no air to ground capability at all... even dumb rockets and dumb bombs.

    Electronics and IFF systems are different for frontal aviation and PVO aircraft.

    The Su-27SM was a modest upgrade that was a cheap and simple way to improve the in service Flankers from fairly basic to fairly good multi role aircraft. The Su-33 was like the original Su-27 with R-27 andR-27E capability and R-73 for air to air, while air to ground was dumb bombs and rockets, the only upgrade over the bog standard Su-27 was the introduction of the Kh-31 missile in the anti ship version. Even the Mig-29C was more sophisticated than eitehr in service Flanker as it could carry R-77s. The Russian AF didn't actually buy any R-77s for operational use, but if they did the Mig-29C was the only aircraft that could carry and use it that they had in operational numbers.

    The Su-27SM upgrades are the equivalent of the Mig-29SMT upgrades in that they were simple improvements that made the aircraft much more potent and capable at minimum costs and could be done relatively quickly... which was a good way of improving the general performance of the AF without having to wait years for new planes to be produced.

    At the end of the day the comparison between Su-27SM2 and Su-30SM is that the latter has two seats.

    So the Russians are up to 4 choices?MiG-35 vs MiG-29SMT and Su-27SM vs Su-30SM?!

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  indochina on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:48 pm

    TR1 wrote:You are confusing different variants from different plants.

    The Su-30SM is from the Irkut plant, where the Su-30MKI originates from. IT has canards and TVC.

    The Su-30MK is built at Komsomolsk, where they also build Su-35s now. The Su-30M2 is basically a domestic MK, has no carads, and no electronically scanned array.

    We don't know the exact differences from the Su-27SM2 to the Su-27SM, but it is certainly not as advanced as the Su-30SM.

    I think the Su-27SM vs Su-30SM is a local reference, comparing them is like Su-35S (to be sold to China) vs Su-30MKI
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:52 pm

    indochina wrote:So the answer end of same Su-27SM2 ​​/ 3 is a partner of the Su-30SM!this is similar to the Su-30MKI and the Su-30MKK to compete between KnAAPO and Napo for the export market!

    I do not see any difference apart from the Su-30SM with double wheels and Canard. Load of weapons and they do not have specific information, but I'm sure are in the range of 8 tons of Flanker family. Or if there is a difference, it can only be located in the avionics and radar aircraft

    The Su-27SM and SM3 are Knaapo products.
    They don't have PESA, or a lot of the goodies Su-30SM has. They do however have uprated engines, something the Su-30SM has yet to get.
    The SM is an upgrade, and the only reason the RuAF got the 12 SM3s (and 4 Su-30M2) was that Knaapo had some unfinished airframes lying around.

    The Su-30SM is a domestic MKI, made by Irkut.
    It has TVC (Su-27SM/SM3 do not), it has a more modern cockpit and avionics, etc etc.
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:54 pm

    indochina wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The Su-30 branch of the family is based on the Su-27UB two seat operational trainer. Anything you add to either the Su-27 or Su-30 you can add to the other.

    The Sukhoi company can name their planes anything they like, but the official names come from the Russian military and Su-27S, Su-27P indicate fighterbomber and interceptor models of the Su-27. The S model has air to air and air to ground capability while the P models were for the PVO and had no air to ground capability at all... even dumb rockets and dumb bombs.

    Electronics and IFF systems are different for frontal aviation and PVO aircraft.

    The Su-27SM was a modest upgrade that was a cheap and simple way to improve the in service Flankers from fairly basic to fairly good multi role aircraft. The Su-33 was like the original Su-27 with R-27 andR-27E capability and R-73 for air to air, while air to ground was dumb bombs and rockets, the only upgrade over the bog standard Su-27 was the introduction of the Kh-31 missile in the anti ship version. Even the Mig-29C was more sophisticated than eitehr in service Flanker as it could carry R-77s. The Russian AF didn't actually buy any R-77s for operational use, but if they did the Mig-29C was the only aircraft that could carry and use it that they had in operational numbers.

    The Su-27SM upgrades are the equivalent of the Mig-29SMT upgrades in that they were simple improvements that made the aircraft much more potent and capable at minimum costs and could be done relatively quickly... which was a good way of improving the general performance of the AF without having to wait years for new planes to be produced.

    At the end of the day the comparison between Su-27SM2 and Su-30SM is that the latter has two seats.

    So the Russians are up to 4 choices?MiG-35 vs MiG-29SMT and Su-27SM vs Su-30SM?!

    MiG-29SMT was only bought because of the Algerian mess.
    Su-27SM was an upgrade/leftover buy.

    The truly new deals are still varied though.
    Su-30SM from Irkut.
    Su-35S from Knaapo.
    Su-34 from NAPO.
    Yak-130 is also being bought from Irkut, though the first batches were built @ Sokol.
    I don't remember off the top of my head where the MIG-29Ks, or potentially the MiG-35 will be built; MiG has several associated plants.
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:01 pm

    So the Russians are up to 4 choices?MiG-35 vs MiG-29SMT and Su-27SM vs Su-30SM?!

    No.

    There are new planes: PAK FA is number one, but expensive and certainly wont be produced in the numbers needed to be their one and only fighter as there are hundreds of Mig-31s, Su-27s and Mig-29s that are going to need replacing over the next two decades.

    The Mig-35 is going to be bought... whether they buy just under 50 or just under 100 or more probably depends on its performance and costs... if they buy less then in the short term an SMT upgrade is a cheap way to keep some Mig-29s in service while a solution is reached. A longer term solution is the Mig-29M2 which is an almost Mig-35.

    The Su-35 is also going to be purchased, but to keep the Air Force going they will upgrade existing Su-27s to SMx standard to make up the numbers. By 2020 most of the original Mig-29s and Su-27s and many of the Mig-31s will have to be retired so the Su-30SM and Su-27SMx and any Mig-29s they might upgrade are just gap fillers... by then the old planes will be too expensive to maintain and the new aircraft will be cheaper to produce and even the numbers planes will start to be replaced by the new aircraft... and unmanned aircraft no doubt.

    I think the Su-27SM vs Su-30SM is a local reference, comparing them is like Su-35S (to be sold to China) vs Su-30MKI

    SM are commonly used to indicate upgraded models... there was even a Mig-21SM and indeed Mig-21SMT. As I said above the Su-27SM was a modest upgrade to give standard Su-27s multirole capability and compatibility with new missiles like R-77 and Kh-31 etc.

    Just like the Mig-29SMT upgrade there are as many choices as you like from a very basic upgrade to a complete change of pretty much everything... the latter not a hugely popular option simply because a new aircraft would work out cheaper in the long run in terms of airframe life etc.

    MiG-29SMT was only bought because of the Algerian mess.

    Of course, the Air Force is not hugely interested in multi role Mig-29s as Mig-29 units are not generally engaged in air to ground missions so the extra capability is largely wasted... especially during the 1990s and 2000s as the sophisticated weapons needed were not purchased anyway.

    In the next 10 years however the Mig-29s in service will need to be retired and I rather doubt new build production will keep up so now that they have them in service I suspect an upgrade of a few of the low hours airframes might keep flying numbers up as a stopgap measure... much the same as the Su-30SM can provide for Flanker units... no evidence... just my opinion.

    Su-27SM was an upgrade/leftover buy.

    It was an upgrade Sukhoi developed as a cheaper option, because some export partners can't or don't want to afford an Su-30MKI/MKK, but still want the range and performance of a Flanker... and that included the Russian AF during the early 2000s. It was a significant step up from a bog standard Su-27, yet was not as expensive as an Su-30MKI and of course it could be applied to single seat Su-27s already in service rather than require new builds... which is only relevant to the Russian AF.



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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  Mig25 on Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:34 pm

    What is the difference between Su27 and Su30?
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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:01 am

    What is the difference between Su27 and Su30?

    Su-30 is a two seat derivative of the Su-27UB two seat operational trainer. The Su-27 traditionally is a single seat aircraft.

    Su-30 is tandem two seat aircraft, Su-34 and Su-33KUB are side by side two seat, Su-27 is generally single seat except for the two seat operational trainer.. Su-27UB, while the Su-35 is a single seat aircraft too.


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    medo

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    What is the difference between Su27 and Su30?

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:03 pm

    Mig25 wrote:What is the difference between Su27 and Su30?

    By the rule, basic Su-27 is a clear fighter and interceptor, while Su-30 is a multirole fighter-bomber or in the western equivalent, the same difference as between basic F-15 and F-15E.

    Su-30 is developed from Su-27UB and is twin seater. Outside difference is in IFR capabilities and in twin wheeled nose gear. Su-30SM and export Su-30MKI/MKM also have canards and TVC engines. In opposite of Su-27UB, the second member in Su-30 is a WSO and not only flight instructor.
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    JohnSnow

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  JohnSnow on Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:35 pm

    Hey guys, What's the difference between Su-30M2 and Su-30SM?
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27SM vs Su-30SM/M2 Differences

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:26 pm

    JohnSnow wrote:Hey guys, What's the difference between Su-30M2 and Su-30SM?

    Outside Su-30SM have canards and engines with TVC, which Su-30M2 doesn't have. Inside Su-30SM have Bars-R PESA radar, Su-30M2 have N001VEP mechanical radar.
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    franco

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    Hey guys, What's the difference between Su-30M2 and Su-30SM?

    Post  franco on Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:13 pm

    JohnSnow wrote:Hey guys, What's the difference between Su-30M2 and Su-30SM?

    Another difference is the 30M2 is designed to be the trainer / conversation aircraft for the Su-35 and Su-27SM while the 30SM is a two seated multi-role upgraded version of the Su-27.

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