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    NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

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    AlfaT8

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:52 pm

    max steel wrote:
    DerWolf wrote:‘Polish missile shield’ rockets tested
    11.12.2015 14:43

    The rockets which would make up the NATO missile-shield unit in Poland and the CEE region, have been successfully tested in Hawaii.

    A successful test of the antiballistic SM-3 missile was conducted on Thursday.
    The rockets will be used as part of a NATO missile defence shield in the CEE region, including Poland.
    “The Missile Defense Agency conducted the first intercept test of a Raytheon Land-Based Standard Missile-3 Block IB from the Aegis Ashore Missile Defense Test Complex. The SM-3 destroyed an intermediate range ballistic missile target in space by using remote track data from [a] ballistic missile defense radar in a 'launch-on-remote' engagement,” read a press statement released by Raytheon, a US defence contractor.
    The missile base will become operational in line with plans, and will be launched later this year in Romania.
    A base in Redzikowo, northern Poland should also become operational by 2018.


    I've read it earlier and it shows that US isn't not at all interested in listening to Russia. It's time for repercussions.

    More Iskanders....strike that, floating Iskanders (on river boats). Twisted Evil
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    GarryB

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:37 am

    The operational range of SM-3 is about 700km in the early models and up to 2,500km in later planned versions.

    Basing it in Europe... even just testing it in Europe is a violation of the INF treaty.

    I rather suspect the US jumping up and down saying cruise missiles on the Iskander platform violate the INF treaty is so they can claim Russia did it first and let them move the SM-3s into Europe...


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    Towen

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Towen on Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:33 am

    Good evening, from a rookie. Well, from one in this forum that is. I do however, have experience of the kind I can tell you very little about. When I follow this thread there is one crucial thing I see you people in here do not realise: The primary reason for the US to pursue a increasingly complex infrastructure of a so called Missile Shield in Europe and surplus areas - is NOT - to intercept and terminate hostile ballistic missiles (so be it a wanted fraction of it). Rather, it is a premature precursor to a Strategic Master Plan, a PAX Americana of Space Dominance. Star Wars in it cradle and future militarization of space. Think kill satellites. Think X-37 B. Think of the "Shield"-deployment as a small comparmentalized part of a much broader picture - a "Manhattan Project" of the space era.

    I would also like to comment on a previous passus in this thread stating that the US military spending surpasses the 18 following militaries in the world combined. A passus mocked by many in the following discussion. However, I think what was meant from the beginning and somewhat mixed up was - and this is TRUE - The US NAVY is considered to be larger than the following SEVENTEEN NAVIES combined..


    Towen

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Towen on Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:07 am

    I also would like to say I am not a one eyed pro american. I do not believe in a unipolar world - but not in a multipolar one either. It is only through a united conglomerate of the rich infrastructure (hard and soft) of the worlds major powers we as a spieces will be able to find the technology and spirit to evolve over millennias. To leave this world and to colonize others. Our ONLY chance to survive. That goes for Washington and for Moscow equally. And no, The F/A 22 Raptor nor the PAK T 50 will do it for any of us..
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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Thu May 12, 2016 1:24 pm

    Romania's Missile Defense System to Go Live Despite Russian Objections

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039472039/Romanias-Missile-Defense-Systemto-Live.html#ixzz48RKb7iNf



    Russia Could Drop START Treaty Due to New Air Defense Systems in Europe

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039489776/russia-start-air-defense.html#ixzz48RKVoEL9


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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Thu May 12, 2016 1:25 pm

    Missile Defense Program in Romania to Increase NATO 'Defensive' Coverage

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039479967/nato-missile-defense-stoltenberg.html#ixzz48RKg3Jty


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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 12, 2016 2:41 pm

    I got a good idea: why not leave start, but don't say anything? The US openly lies regarding placement of systems and missiles while violating imf treaty, so why not violate both as well and just lie like US. They will complain but they already do. At least America won't know what Russia has/building so can't counter it. Russia is too honest imo. Build ground launch Kalibr missiles with a larger fuel tank and the newer fuel so it can reach from Eastern Russia to US coast, and deeper inside Russia to Romania and Poland.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu May 12, 2016 8:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I got a good idea: why not leave start, but don't say anything? The US openly lies regarding placement of systems and missiles while violating imf treaty, so why not violate both as well and just lie like US. They will complain but they already do. At least America won't know what Russia has/building so can't counter it. Russia is too honest imo. Build ground launch Kalibr missiles with a larger fuel tank and the newer fuel so it can reach from Eastern Russia to US coast, and deeper inside Russia to Romania and Poland.
    Agree.

    I suppose Russians will always act with a degree of naivety when it comes to dealing with the West, it's just the way they are. The collapse of the Soviet Union demonstrated this naivety to disastrous effect. Sadly, being honest and fighting the good fight only works if people can see it; MSM makes sure the majority of us don't.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Werewolf on Thu May 12, 2016 9:28 pm

    Or they leave the pandora's box closed because Putin can't be president for ever and i doubt the next one will be set in stone to be a patriot.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 12, 2016 9:50 pm

    He won't be president forever but there was a good article on South front about the rise of ONR, or in other words the nationalists. If you take a gander on who is popular or not, not a single one of the liberals is popular. The other guys (LDPR) can be quite scary. You of all people should know that the none patriotic Russians are pretty much pariah.

    The transition of Putin to the new guy will be controlled imo. So we will get someone similar or tougher. As that is what is popular.
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    Militarov

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Militarov on Thu May 12, 2016 10:12 pm

    Call me dumb, but i would like Natalia Poklonskaya to be president, somehow she is intimidating in..weird freaky way.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Werewolf on Thu May 12, 2016 10:21 pm

    The scariest part would be if Zhirnovsky or one of his stooges gets president based on his "patriotism" which he loudly claims to have. One of the worst, would lick US ass in a second after being elected.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 12, 2016 10:28 pm

    The Communist? Nah, he is right now riding the ultra Patriot ride that if he did lick us butt, the countrymen would BBQ his fat arse.
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    kvs

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  kvs on Thu May 12, 2016 11:13 pm

    sepheronx wrote:The Communist? Nah, he is right now riding the ultra Patriot ride that if he did lick us butt, the countrymen would BBQ his fat arse.

    He means the LDPR leader. The court jester. I don't the LDPR will ever form the government. The problem with the KPRF (Communists) is that
    Zyuganov never properly reformed the party and made it democratic with fresh ideas. Instead he followed the obsolete dictatorial model and made
    himself its leader for life and suppressed any challengers. If the KPRF had reformed itself there would now be two major parties in Russia instead
    of one, namely United Russia. Thanks for nothing, Zyuganov, you retarded old meat.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Thu May 12, 2016 11:26 pm

    Maybe fresh new person will take over. That old man looks like he is at deaths door.

    Maybe the LDPR act nationalistic (ultra nationalist as I do like many of the bills they propose) but I don't know enough about them. The liberals are almost nothing (3%) so yeah, United Russia it seems will be rulers for next while. Not huge fan about that really and I don't trust half the party members. I see at least some newer parties Right cause party. And PVO.

    victor1985

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 13, 2016 6:58 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Or they leave the pandora's box closed because Putin can't be president for ever and i doubt the next one will be set in stone to be a patriot.
    putin can choose a next candidate for the presidency who is aproximately like him. a ex fsb agent. they have the balls to stay in usa's face .....

    victor1985

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 13, 2016 7:03 pm

    about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?
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    Militarov

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Militarov on Fri May 13, 2016 7:14 pm

    victor1985 wrote:about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?

    Printing money causes inflation pwnd
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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Fri May 13, 2016 7:14 pm

    victor1985 wrote:about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?
    No.  And those Romanians are not sure what they are talking about either.  1) GDP has little to do with it. 2)Russian goods are much cheaper so with less money, more can actually be purchased. 3)US cannot afford an Arms race either.  Just printing money isn't a form of a real economy and sure sounds like your fellow Romanians have very little knowledge on economy.

    There are a lot more factors I could go into, but don't really feel like it.  All in all, Russia can easily afford various types of missiles to easily deal with these systems - since they already have the weapons available (Cruise missiles like Kalibr, Iskander, Kh-101, etc.)

    victor1985

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 13, 2016 8:55 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?

    Printing money causes inflation pwnd
    as long as it's a low inflation that is not so bad. but contrary being in the market new money that would make another relation between price and work .....

    victor1985

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  victor1985 on Fri May 13, 2016 8:57 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?
    No.  And those Romanians are not sure what they are talking about either.  1) GDP has little to do with it. 2)Russian goods are much cheaper so with less money, more can actually be purchased. 3)US cannot afford an Arms race either.  Just printing money isn't a form of a real economy and sure sounds like your fellow Romanians have very little knowledge on economy.

    There are a lot more factors I could go into, but don't really feel like it.  All in all, Russia can easily afford various types of missiles to easily deal with these systems - since they already have the weapons available (Cruise missiles like Kalibr, Iskander, Kh-101, etc.)

    2) that would mean that more you buy would mean less money that the usa counterpart for the producer .....
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    Militarov

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Militarov on Fri May 13, 2016 9:01 pm

    victor1985 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?

    Printing money causes inflation pwnd
    as long as it's a low inflation that is not so bad. but contrary being in the market new money that would make another relation between price and work .....

    But Russia already has higher inflation that they would like, below 5% inflation is considered as "healthy". And at certain points Russia reached even almost 20%, printing additional money without "cover" would just make things worse.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Fri May 13, 2016 9:04 pm

    victor1985 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?
    No.  And those Romanians are not sure what they are talking about either.  1) GDP has little to do with it. 2)Russian goods are much cheaper so with less money, more can actually be purchased. 3)US cannot afford an Arms race either.  Just printing money isn't a form of a real economy and sure sounds like your fellow Romanians have very little knowledge on economy.

    There are a lot more factors I could go into, but don't really feel like it.  All in all, Russia can easily afford various types of missiles to easily deal with these systems - since they already have the weapons available (Cruise missiles like Kalibr, Iskander, Kh-101, etc.)

    2) that would mean that more you buy would mean less money that the usa counterpart for the producer .....

    English please.

    Russia gets more bang for its buck. Cruise missiles are relatively cheap compared to what they used to be, and are more readily available. A stationary defense system such as this ABM would be a far easier target than a mobile system. The Launchers are blind without its method of tracking the missiles or air assets, and the radar stations would be the first to go. No stationary or mobile is 100% effective, even FAR less so when salvo strikes. Which would be cheaper than the setup of this station. Couple million vs tens of millions.
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    max steel

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  max steel on Fri May 13, 2016 9:11 pm





    victor1985

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  victor1985 on Sat May 14, 2016 7:06 am

    Militarov wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:about the misile shield. here in romania is said that russia isn't prepared to take a arms race with usa. and a race would cost alot russia because of the difference in gdp. because russia (they clame) doesnt have a diversificated civil economy so they cant have the money to build those weapons.
    in my opinion as long as money flew from russia that is bad. printing money to be a solution?

    Printing money causes inflation pwnd
    as long as it's a low inflation that is not so bad. but contrary being in the market new money that would make another relation between price and work .....

    But Russia already has higher inflation that they would like, below 5% inflation is considered as "healthy". And at certain points Russia reached even almost 20%, printing additional money without "cover" would just make things worse.
    you see .....normally the market would try to restore the equilibrium ...but is the unemployement problem who makes the things worse ....fix that and youre done

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