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    NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:11 am

    sweetflowers365 wrote:Hi all,

    Do russian weapons have capability to destroy anti missile defense system ?

    Yes, easily.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:30 am

    sweetflowers365 wrote:Hi all,

    Do russian weapons have capability to destroy anti missile defense system ?

    Most modern anti missile defense systems are based upon defeating usually missiles like Scuds or other IRBM's. Although, SM-3BII is supposed to be able to deal with shorter ICBM's theoretically. THAAD very similar. But, all of these systems are specific to the type of systems they are to be worked against, and in most tests, they already knew trajectory and where it was going to land, thus it was easier to shoot down. Also, there is a belief that the numbers are fabricated in terms of how effective they are. But that is up for debate.

    That being said, all such systems are usually a launcher platform, with radar systems to detect, track and guide missile to the target. These such systems are susceptible to anti radiation missiles, which usually fly lower, thus harder to detect and engage. So they would need to have secondary systems to protect such sites, but usually they don't or are maybe effective against some targets and not supersonic cruise missiles. There is a belief too that because Iskander flies at a quasi ballistic path, it is harder for such ABM systems to be able to engage it.

    So I would say yes. But that same thing can be said about any other country who has cruise missiles, and or smart munitions.

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sweetflowers365 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:17 pm

    all these weapons can be made by Company , I am planning t build a system which can easily be build and destory tanks and aircraft, Like Tanks Have Iron shield, IF we can Fire Electricity on it with high voltage, will they kill the people inside tank with electricity current ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:25 am

    The outside of the vehicle will act like a faraday cage which will protect those inside as long as they are not touching metal themselves... a bit like a person in a car being relatively safe from lightning.


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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:43 am

    Makei: Euro ABM deployment will disrupt the balance of forces in Europe

    MINSK, 18 November (BelTA) – The deployment of the European antiballistic missile defense system (Euro ABM) is much likely to disrupt the balance of forces in Europe, Foreign Minister of Belarus Vladimir Makei said following the joint meeting of the Foreign Ministries of Belarus and Russia on 18 November, belta has learned.

    “In this respect we need measures for a corresponding response,” Vladimir Makei said. In his words, today's meeting highlighted the issues of international security and arms control.

    According to Vladimir Makei, the parties expressed readiness for closer cooperation in order to strengthen the positions of the two countries in the international arena as well as in favor of strengthening integration in the Union State and other formats. He stressed that Belarus and Russia continue their fruitful cooperation in the UN. The meeting in Minsk also discussed cooperation in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, including the advancement of the Eurasian Economic Union there.

    The two countries are also ready to advance the joint declaration on the 70th anniversary of the end of WWII on the OSCE platform.
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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:06 pm

    Missile defense deployment in Romania against European security — Russian Foreign Ministry

    US offial said that the interceptor missiles the USA is planning to deploy at the American airbase in Deveselu by the end of 2015 are among other things targeting potential threats from Russia.

    MOSCOW, December 17. /TASS/. Steps towards further militarisation of south-eastern Europe, including missile defense deployment in Romania, run counter to the interests of regional and European security and stability, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said on Wednesday.

    He commented on statements by Chairman of the US House Intelligence Committee Mike Rogers on the “great shield” in Deveselu, Romania.

    Rogers told Romanian Realitatea TV Channel that the interceptor missiles the USA is planning to deploy at the American airbase in Deveselu by the end of 2015 are among other things targeting potential threats from Russia.

    “Thus, the American legislator confirmed the validity of Moscow’s doubts that the ‘missile defense shield’ being created by the US is designed to be used for the purposes that Washington declared,” Lukashevich said.

    “The role assigned to Romania to service the regular American project is hardly as honourable as it is presented,” he said.

    “Bucharest’s involvement in another American project that was confirmed in the US Senate recent report on tortures in secret CIA prisons in other countries has put Romanian officials, who were forced to decline journalists’ questions, in a rather awkward position,” Lukashevich said.
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    Kyo

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Kyo on Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:52 pm

    US missile defense system cannot intercept Russian strategic missiles: deputy PM

    “Neither the current nor even prospective American missile defense system can stop or challenge Russian strategic missile potential,” Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said

    MOSCOW, January 26. /TASS/. The American missile defense system is unable to counter Russia’s strategic missiles, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Monday.

    Neither the current nor even prospective American missile defense system can stop or challenge Russian strategic missile potential,” Rogozin said in a program on the Rossiya 1 TV channel.

    However, the deputy prime minister declined to specify any technical characteristics of Russia’s strategic missiles.
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    kvs

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  kvs on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:29 am

    Kyo wrote:US missile defense system cannot intercept Russian strategic missiles: deputy PM

    “Neither the current nor even prospective American missile defense system can stop or challenge Russian strategic missile potential,” Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said

    MOSCOW, January 26. /TASS/. The American missile defense system is unable to counter Russia’s strategic missiles, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Monday.

    Neither the current nor even prospective American missile defense system can stop or challenge Russian strategic missile potential,” Rogozin said in a program on the Rossiya 1 TV channel.

    However, the deputy prime minister declined to specify any technical characteristics of Russia’s strategic missiles.

    They have maneuverable warheads. There is no way to calculate their trajectory a priori and send the hypersonic interceptor.
    There are no hypersonic missile systems that can chase warheads. There are only warhead vs. warhead systems being deployed
    and designed.

    So Rogozin is not talking trash.
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    GarryB

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:11 am

    Interception is 4D maths.

    Very simply it is a question of getting your interceptor object to the 4D position of the target... the 4 dimensions are longitude, latitude, altitude, and time... if all four numbers are exactly the same for the interceptor and the incoming threat then you have a successful interception.

    With incoming ICBM warheads travelling at 6km/s however even a half a second early or late means a miss by 3km.

    the interceptor does not need to be faster than the incoming target but it does need to get to the interception point at the correct time... a 1 degree turn 10 seconds to interception will shift the interception point hundreds of kms with the interception system having a mere 10 seconds to detect the change in trajectory, recalculate the new interception point and redirect the interceptor to the new interception point and time... obviously you can see that a small turn and then another small turn in any direction will render an interceptor useless because after burning enormous amounts of energy and fuel to reach the initial interception point 10 seconds to impact it suddenly needs to be 10km to the left and you have 7 seconds to get there because the target that was 60km away when it started to turn is now 42km away and closing fast... even if you can turn your interceptor and reach the new interception point another turn of 2 degrees the other way will likely mean the interceptor has no chance of turning back and getting to the new interception point before the target has gone past it, which means it will have to over take the target to catch it... and it is unlikely to be moving fast enough, nor will it have any fuel left by now to reach the new interception point... so a new interceptor needs to be launched....


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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:08 pm

    Pentagon Asks for $9.6 Bln to Counter Missile Threat From Iran, North Korea

    The Obama administration asked for $9.6 billion to counter the increasing threat from North Korea and Iran.

    The US Department of Defense has requested $9.6 billion in the 2016 budget year to counter "a maturing long-range missile threat from North Korea and the potential threat from Iran," the Associated Press reports.

    "The US Military remains deeply engaged around the world," Pentagon said in its $585-billion defense budget proposal, citing Russian activities in Ukraine, Ebola and the rise of the Islamic State as the three main geopolitical challenges the US faces. The DoD also said that the agency must address both current and emerging challenges, including cyberattacks, rising China and threats to space assets.

    The Pentagon’s base budget has increased by 7.7 percent from last year, reaching $534 billion, which makes it the largest in US history, according to the Associate Press. However, the $51-billion funding for overseas contingency operations is a 21 percent decrease compared with the 2015 budget year, the news agency said.

    The current defense budget proposal ignores the cap of $499 billion, imposed by Congress.

    On Monday, US President Barack Obama unveiled a nearly $4-trillion budget for fiscal year 2016, which must be approved by Congress to take effect.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150203/1017695545.html#ixzz3QgA7o45Q
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    max steel

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  max steel on Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:00 pm

    Pervius wrote:There is no reason for a nuclear war between US-Russia. If it came up for a vote today most Americans would elect Putin as US President.

    Both countries are facing huge population loss from Baby Boomer Generation which created nuclear arsenals....all dying off.

    If Russia and US can avert War both countries will finally see their economy come back after old people die off. We all just need to survive trying to provide for all the old people. Hence why Russia and US people are suffering in poverty. Too many old people to clothe/feed.

    1/3rd of US will be dead by 2020. Russia and US will have to join together to survive Chinese Century of domination. We both will be minority countries in the world soon.



    SORRY BUTH RUSSIAN POPULATION IS NOT DYING . IT'S A MYTH :
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/02/04/five-myths-about-russia/ study

    Russia's Baby Boom. Fertility Rate Far Higher Than in EU, Rising Quickly. : http://russia-insider.com/en/politics_opinion_society/2014/10/27/03-27-22pm/russias_baby_boom_fertility_rate_far_higher_eu_rising russia love


    Russia's Birth Rate Is Now Higher Than The United States' : http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/07/25/dying-russias-birth-rate-is-now-higher-than-the-united-states/ russia
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    max steel

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    Denmark ships to join NATO shield Russia threatens to aim nuclear missiles at them .

    Post  max steel on Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:59 pm

    Denmark ships to join NATO shield Russia threatens to aim nuclear missiles at them .



    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/22/us-denmark-russia-idUSKBN0MI0ML20150322
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:10 pm

    Well in case of nuclear war , of course they will be a target Twisted Evil
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    max steel

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  max steel on Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:03 am

    Denmark unlikely to join NATO’s missile shield — expert   dunno


    http://tass.ru/en/world/784466


    btw why the hell there are two us satellites shown just above russia in east . Must be taken down .


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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:01 pm

    NATO: Iran Deal or Not, Missile Shield Will Stay

    NATO will go ahead with its plans to deploy a fully-fledged missile defense network in Europe despite the recent agreement with Tehran aimed at preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons, spokeswoman Oana Lungescu told Sputnik on Friday.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik), Alexander Mosesov — The spokeswoman reiterated that the so-called European missile shield is not directed against Russia.

    "The threat to NATO countries posed by the proliferation of ballistic missiles continues to increase… The framework [Iran nuclear program] agreement does not change that fact," Lungescu said.

    On Thursday, Tehran and the P5+1 countries, comprising Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom, China, France and Germany agreed a political framework for a comprehensive agreement aimed at ensuring the peaceful nature of Iranian nuclear activities.

    In December 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Washington had created threats for Russia by expanding its missile defense shield, placing elements in Eastern Europe, close to the Russian border.

    However, NATO earlier claimed that the system was primarily aimed at protecting its allies, countering threats from Iran and North Korea.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150403/1020449551.html#ixzz3WH3nE599
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    GarryB

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:22 am

    So despite deal with Iran on Iranian nukes the US ABM shield in Europe will continue.... that clears that up... the US ABM shield in Europe is directed at Russia... so one can assume the ABM system proposed by the US to Japan and South Korea will also be directed at Russia and China...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:10 am

    The Pentagon’s $10-billion bet gone bad

    Trying to fashion a shield against a sneak missile attack, military planners gambled on costly projects that flopped, leaving a hole in U.S. homeland defense.

    Leaders of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency were effusive about the new technology.

    It was the most powerful radar of its kind in the world, they told Congress. So powerful it could detect a baseball over San Francisco from the other side of the country.

    If North Korea launched a sneak attack, the Sea-Based X-Band Radar — SBX for short — would spot the incoming missiles, track them through space and guide U.S. rocket-interceptors to destroy them.

    Crucially, the system would be able to distinguish between actual missiles and decoys.

    SBX “represents a capability that is unmatched,” the director of the Missile Defense Agency told a Senate subcommittee in 2007.

    In reality, the giant floating radar has been a $2.2-billion flop, a Los Angeles Times investigation found.
    ...............

    http://graphics.latimes.com/missile-defense/

    Wow,  couldn't add the entire article,but wow, just wow. Shocked Shocked
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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:02 pm

    Russia warned that it is ready to neutralize US anti-ballistic missile system
    Russian Aviaton » Tuesday April 7, 2015 16:09 MSK

    Russia is able to counter US anti-ballistic missile system, official representative of Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Alexander Lukashevich, said. Despite having such capabilities, Moscow would rather not use it, the representative added, RBC reports.

    «In order to keep the strategic balance, we have capabilities to counter US anti-ballistic missile system, but we are not going to use it unnecessarily,» the official said. «But just to let members of this system know: Russia has all the capabilities needed to neutralize such threats,» Lukashevich warned countries, which are going to place elements of US anti-ballistic missile system in their territory.

    Over the last few years Moscow has been protesting against deployment of US anti-ballistic missile systems in Europe close to the borders of Russian Federation. Russia also took countermeasures and placed missile early-warning systems in the most western region of the country – Kaliningrad Region.

    Last month Bloomberg reported with reference to some officials that USA might try to pressure Moscow (in light of Ukrainian crisis) by means of expanding its military presence in the Eastern Europe and Scandinavia: deploying air defense and anti-ballistic missile systems, military units of the army as well as surveillance units. In January NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg announced establishment of the alliance’s command centers in six countries: Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

    Last September after verbal confrontation between Russia and USA the countries started massive maneuvers. Russia held military exercise aimed at practicing the interaction between Topol missile systems and aviation, while NATO involved thousands of service members in massive maneuvers held in the Western part of Ukraine.
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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:21 pm

    US Stands on Need for European Missile Defense Regardless of Iran Deal

    US State Department official stated that United States will not change its stance on the need for missile defense systems in Europe even after a preliminary deal was struck last week by the P5+1 and Tehran Group on Iran’s nuclear program.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik), Alexander Mosesov – The United States will not change its stance on the need for missile defense systems in Europe even after a preliminary deal was struck last week by the P5+1 and Tehran Group on Iran’s nuclear program, a US State Department official told Sputnik in an exclusive interview on Tuesday.

    “A successful resolution of the nuclear issue with Iran would not obviate the need for ballistic missile defenses. [US] President [Barack] Obama said last Thursday that US sanctions on Iran’s ballistic missile program will continue to be fully enforced,” the official said on conditions of anonymity.

    The official said that Iran’s ballistic missile capability remains a threat and “continues to be a source of concern to us and the international community.”

    The United States will continue developing its European Phased Adaptive Approach (EPAA) plans that include missile defense systems placed in Eastern Europe because of possible ballistic missile threats from Iran, a US State Department official said.

    “The United States remains committed to the security of our Allies and Partners against possible ballistic missile threats, including those posed by Iran and its non-state proxies in the region,” the official said on conditions of anonymity.

    Last week, a preliminary deal was struck between the P5+1 Group and Tehran on Iran’s nuclear program. US President Barack Obama said last week that the deal would not alleviate concerns in regard to Iran.

    “Our commitment to the European Phased Adaptive Approach (EPAA), including the facilities in Romania and Poland, is ironclad,” the official added.

    On April 3, NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu told Sputnik that the military bloc would go ahead with its plans to deploy a fully-fledged missile defense network in Europe despite the Lausanne deal.

    In 2009, the United States and NATO agreed to the European Phased Adaptive Approach to ballistic missile defense in Europe.

    Russia has raised concerns over the close proximity of the ballistic missile systems to its borders. Moscow has also expressed concerns that such deployments could upset the strategic balance.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/us/20150407/1020564234.html#ixzz3WelvWEwK
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    max steel

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    Now can these SM intercept Russian irbms , mrbms & srbms ?

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:47 pm

    Does Russia posses any IRBM, SRBM and MRBM which they are planning to target Europe with . I think thats why europeans are going with aegis anti ball missile defence .

    If russia has to attack usa it will use icbms or slbms . So this SM class of missiles are basically to form a shield in europe .

    Now can these SM intercept Russian irbms , mrbms & srbms ?
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    sepheronx

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:58 pm

    IRBM's like Iskander and Tochka U. Tochka's may be able to be intercepted as they are nothing advanced but Iskander is two systems really: a quasi ballistic missile and other ones are cruise missiles. The quasi ballistic missile flies at a different path than a typical BM and thus harder to track and engage. It also is manouverable and may posses decoys of some sort. The cruise missile would possible be used to strike abm systems.

    But Iskander is indeed in western Russia, Belarus and Kaliningrad.
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    max steel

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:16 pm

    Can I know what all cruise missiles can be used to neutralize ussa abm in europe both on land and water ( aegis bmd ) ?
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    George1

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:23 pm

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    max steel

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:44 pm

    If they don't cancel it russia must pull out from INF Treaty . enough is enough .

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    Re: NATO ΑΒΜ Shield in Europe and Russia's response

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:35 am

    max steel wrote:Can I know what all cruise missiles can be used to neutralize ussa abm in europe both on land and water ( aegis bmd ) ?

    Iskander cruise missile version is made for that.. also Kalibrs/Club missiles land attack version.
    This ones have up to 3500km range.. or 2600km depending the source. Enough to hit any military base in europe from Russia.  There are also nuclear cruise missiles with 5,000km range
    forgot the model..

    About US vs Russia defense..
    As far i have read ,based on their own simulation videos ,Sm-3 is not a missile interceptor.. but more like a space orbit mine..  that is transported by a missile carrier to the place where NATO expect the missile to pass.. when launched from Russia. Because is very limited its propulsion system.. is just a mine with very rigid mobility by boosters it cannot be used to chase anything.
    is a mine you place in front of a predicted trajectory of a passing missile in very high altitude exosphere space orbit. So Sm-3 will have problems to intercept a missile that do maneuvers
    and cannot be used in anything but gravity zero space.

    So the system of defense, SM-3. is only useful only against missiles with a linear trajectory.
    but if it change the course , when the mine is placed , it will fail since cannot chase. is not a missile.

    So we can say US navy is more advanced that Russia navy when it comes to high altitude ballistic missiles defense.Russia navy have nothing of that. All Russian defenses are in Land.
    S-400 no idea of its range but if it is true can do 180km altitude.. it could do the same and be used as a mid course interceptor.

    S-500 will apparently be an all altitude interceptor. So essentially will do it all in just one missile. Can intercept either Planes ,or ICBM. Americans in the other hand.. needs no less than 3 system of defenses or possibly 4 to cover the entire range of territory defend against air or space attacks.

    S-400's and others systems will do the job of space interception. So which is more advanced..
    thats impossible to know.. unless they tested..in real war conditions , But all the info i have seen suggest US is not really satisfied with their missile interceptors on land. while Russia it is.

    The next article will show you how complicate is interception of ICBMs..  Is not an easy thing
    at all.. and the best way to intercept them it seems to be before they are in their final trajectory.. ie. .mid course.. because in the final path ,they drop decoys and many other things ,
    that really complicates interception.. this is true for both , for Russia and US.

    http://www.crazedfanboy.com/roth/missiledefense.html

    So to play safe.. Russia will need to deploy missiles capable of Mid course interception ,that is real missiles.. (not space mines like SM-3) at borders of Russia. to counter any nuclear attack before it enters in Russia space . Because im afraid the interception of nuclear missiles in the final stage is next to impossible from land..  This is why i think Russia should really push
    for militarization of Space.. why Russia needs to deploy satellite interceptors or a space station
    with anti ICBM defenses.. or perhaps laser defenses. .that will truly take things in security to a new level.

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