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    NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

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    Russian Patriot
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    NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:48 am

    Clinton Says US Considers 'Defense Umbrella' to Deter a Nuclear Iran
    By David Gollust
    Phuket, Thailand
    22 July 2009

    Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Wednesday the United States may offer a "defense umbrella" for U.S. allies in the Gulf, to deter Iran if it acquires nuclear weapons. Clinton, in Thailand for a regional dialogue with ASEAN foreign ministers, also says the United States is concerned about possible North Korean nuclear aid for Burma.

    Clinton says the United States has not given up hope that Iran can still be persuaded by world powers to scrap a uranium enrichment project the United States and European allies believe is weapons related.

    But she says, if the negotiating track fails and Iran acquires a nuclear weapons capacity, the United States will respond with "crippling" actions and is prepared to offer regional allies a "defense umbrella" to prevent Iranian intimidation.

    Appearing on Thai television, the secretary's comments were some of the most pointed by any American official, thus far, about what Washington would do if Iran does acquire nuclear arms.

    She says there is still a lot of opportunity for Iran to be dissuaded from its apparent course, through negotiations with the permanent U.N. Security Council member countries and Germany (P5 +1), who have offered Iran incentives to curb its nuclear activities.

    If such efforts fail, Clinton says the United States will take action that would limit a nuclear Iran's ability to bully its neighbors.

    "We want Iran to calculate what I think is a fair assessment that, if the United States extends a defense umbrella over the region, if we do even more to support the military capacity of those in the Gulf, it's unlikely that Iran will be any stronger or safer because they won't be able to intimidate and dominate as they apparently believe they can, once they have a nuclear weapon," she said.

    Clinton says the negotiating track remains open but says the P5 +1 powers are "not going to keep the window open forever."

    Officials traveling with Clinton in Thailand say her remarks on a defense umbrella reflect no change in American policy and that the United States has long been concerned that a nuclear Iran might spark an arms among worried neighbors.

    In the Thai TV appearance, Clinton also gave direct voice to comments made earlier in Bangkok by senior members of her entourage that the United States is concerned about reports North Korea may be providing nuclear assistance to Burma.

    She says she intends to discuss those concerns with Burma's neighbors at the ASEAN meeting, with the hope that there can be a unity in the region against Burmese cooperation with Pyongyang, which she says Washington is not sure has actually occurred.

    "We want to try to focus attention by countries that have a direct relationship, or share have a border [with Burma], as Thailand does, to that there can be a united front against that happening," said Clinton. "I'm not saying that it is happening, but we want to be prepared to try to stand against it."

    The senior officials in Clinton's party said North Korea has exported every major nuclear technology it has acquired, thus far. They said Burma may have been the intended destination of North Korean freighter that recently was being monitored at sea, but returned to port without delivering its cargo.

    Clinton is holding separate meetings in Phuket with the foreign ministers of the other parties to the stalled Chinese-sponsored nuclear negotiations with Pyongyang.

    North Korea has sent an envoy to the ASEAN regional forum. Clinton will not meet with the North Korean, but American officials do not rule out interaction with him by other members of the secretary's team.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2009/iran-090722-voa01.htm

    Vladimir79
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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:41 am

    I thought they already had a defence umbrella with all the military cooperation pacts they share.

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  lulldapull on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:07 am

    These Israelis and their U.S. patrons can cry all the huff and puff they want, but they don't have the balls to initiate action against Iran.

    Decisive and destructive missile barrages will follow and destroy all U.S. bases in the Gulf and Iraq. Israel will get pounded from Lebanon and Syria with thousands of heavy payload new series Iranian SSM's.

    Iran will take thousands of U.S. troops hostage as it is Iran who controls all shia militias in Iraq.

    If war breaks out then it will make the Hezbollah action in Lebanon in 2006 look like a school yard fight. I am pretty sure Syria and Hezbollah will also be drawn into the conflict as recently as a month ago Ahmadinedjad, Nasrallah and Assad convened a war council and agreed to concerted action with massive SSM retaliation in case of any Israeli aggression.

    Most naive and dis-informed people are unaware of this fact of life that the U.S. is currently in Iraq and Afghanistan as a courtesy of the Islamic Republic. That will change immediately the moment there is an attack on Iran.

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  USAF on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:51 am

    lulldapull wrote: Most naive and dis-informed people are unaware of this fact of life that the U.S. is currently in Iraq and Afghanistan as a courtesy of the Islamic Republic.


    That is an interesting view you have made. What are your thoughts on the reason the Islamic Republic is extending this "courtesy". I dont see any advantage to Iran to extend this "courtesy".

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  lulldapull on Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:15 am

    USAF, Iran and the U.S. are in an alliance to control and pacify the Sunni insurgency rampant in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

    In Iraq it is largely contained now thanks to Iran reigning in the Shia's, and unleashing their armed wings on the sunni insurgents, and the U.S. buying off the sunni Tribal chiefs and sunni leaders in the triangle.

    Iran's IRGC is in command of the Shia militia's in Iraq, and its personnel largely on the ground inside Iraq. Most of the shia council of Iraq was based in Iran throughout the 80's and 90's during the Saddam regime. The Iraqi shia resistance was nurtured by Iran for the last 25+ years for just this purpose, as Iraq holds the worlds second largest oil reserves after Saudi Arabia, and not to mention that the country is more than 75% ethnically Shia.

    It is in Iran and the U.S. interests to contain a sunni insurgency. Whatever adhoc arrangement the Mullah's have made with the U.S. post 9-11 is open to debate, but we are looking at actions here.....USAF.......So far as is evident that neither the U.S. nor Iran have made a wrong move toward each other, despite all the negative rhetoric emanating from Washington or Tehran.

    If push comes to shove and this loose agreement stalls, in case of a stupid Israeli attack, then Iran can make life very difficult for the U.S. in the Persian Gulf. It will be a destructive war for both, and will weaken the already weak U.S. position in the muslim world. This will also affect the U.S. & Israel's standing amongst the likes of Mobarak's in Cairo, Hasan's in Jordan and Abdoolah's in Riyadh on CIA/ NSA payroll. If all out war breaks out than it will destabilize Turkey and Egypt aswell.

    This is IMO the strongest case that thus far nothing has happened in this so called 'stand-off'........where the reality is quite different. I believe that the both the U.S. and Iran are talking to one another behind the scenes, but the complicit media is presenting a skewed picture. It's so obvious.

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  USAF on Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:43 am

    Very informative answer. Thank you for your insight.

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    NATO Missile shield plan, and USA's point:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:39 pm

    This is only the begining of the great shift of power.

    http://debka.com/article/22754/US-withdrawal-from-Europe-based-missile-shield-will-impact-Israel%E2%80%99s-defense

    Does the US victim of the Amstrong's -7 tour de France winner- syndrome ?
    This is the question, after two decades unipolar's world, USA are facing in front of the reality. Nothing can save USA.


    ...Facing a 50 percent cutback in military spending, the Obama administration cannot credibly threaten to go to war against a recalcitrant Iran. ....
    As I've already post 2013 is the begining of the great shift of Power's balance, and the great winners should be China, and Russia.
    The great loosers should be those who followed US's march towardd the abyss. I think many european countries will be impacted by the comming shift of power. As long as many asians, and chieftly arab countries, those who blindly followed US hegemonics politics.
    The reality is that, US sank since the seventies, but the President Nixon's decision to set a floating dollar extend so unexpected decades. And of course the Soviet Union collapsed allowed USA to dominate the world, as it did in Iraq, Lybia, etc....

    Since now, the games are over. USA can no longer match with Russia, this is an evidence. Tomorow we will see a new generation of russian weapons that easily surpass US hardwares, -Pak T50, Su 37, Mig 41, T90, S500,.... - in every area. Oviously if, and only if, Russia modernize itself, by ignoring Gaz exports, and should develop indigenous industries, and export like China, equipement's goods across the world. I think Russia has the ability. Russia will have to bring closer to Germany, France, and build a new alliances.


    Regards.

    ricky123
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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  ricky123 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:20 pm

    it will be hard to make alliances with the west for russia considering the past and american pressure ..what russia needs to do is protect its current allies .russia has more allies in the world then the west but not all of those are rich countries ...

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  Viktor on Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:26 pm

    I think this missile shield in EU saga is far from over. DEBKA file is most misleading newspaper out there,

    that is in that article questioning what would happen if automatic cuts apply on US defense budget

    which will of course never happen. I had read numerous article of that sort recently where

    US Army is crying it will cut training by 78%, US Navy will be forced to retreat one aircraft carrier

    from the Persian Gulf, Panetta crying it will cut pays etc etc and this is no other than one more in continuation of the same story.

    I would not put to much weight on this story.

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:34 pm

    Gonna have to agree with Viktor, the chances of the U.S military getting a significant budget cut is almost laughable. lol! lol1

    nemrod wrote:Since now, the games are over. USA can no longer match with Russia, this is an evidence. Tomorow we will see a new generation of russian weapons that easily surpass US hardwares, -Pak T50, Su 37, Mig 41, T90, S500,.... - in every area.

    To be honest even current generation of Russian weapons can match if not surpass there western analogs and in some areas the west has no analog whatsoever. Cool


    Also i think you mean the Pak-Fa,SU-35S,MIG-35,Armata,S-400/500.
    The MIG-41 OR 1.41 was a prototype from the 90s.
    The SU-37/39 were just demonstrators(they never sold any).
    The T-90/80/72 will all be replaced with the Armata tank in the next twenty years.
    The S-500 is a dedicated ABM/ASAT and S-400 is the Air defense system (from fighter to cruise missiles and more).

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:37 pm

    To Viktor and Alpha,

    Viktor wrote:
    DEBKA file is most misleading newspaper out there,...
    I would not put to much weight on this story.

    I agree with you, Debka was funded by ultra neo conservatives, and ultra-hawkish likudnik, and very close to Netanyahu, Rahm Emmanuel, Denis Ross, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowicz, Clinton, etc... I think, if you want we will talk later about Debka, however I agree with you sometimes their informations are merely propaganda, but sometimes their informations are true. This current article mean neo-cons' worries on several areas, we will see why and how below.


    Viktor wrote:I think this missile shield in EU saga is far from over.

    In fact don't underestimate the US'economic gloomy situation. We are near the catastrophe. This is not an invention, or fantasy.
    Go here and download their geab

    http://www.leap2020.eu/English_r25.html

    here is in french version :
    http://criseusa.blog.lemonde.fr/
    http://lescrises.fr/

    english version
    http://www.zerohedge.com/
    http://tarpley.net/
    U have many websites in english, russian that can give the catastrophic's US situation. To close this point, just a simply figure that can give you a fair US' situation. Nearly 50 millions of US citizen eat from Food Stamp program.
    You can add 100 other millions that are not in a good economic' situation. The US 's world's era does no longer exist.
    As I wrote in my title, this the reality that will kill US defense shield, moreover, if the propaganda 's system talk now, -and not before- about a so-called flaws in the shield, there is not by accident.


    To Alfa



    To be honest even current generation of Russian weapons can match if not surpass there western analogs and in some areas the west has no analog whatsoever.

    I think this is a long debat, I have not enough time now to answer you, but if you saw US military's history, it is enough to realize that US war machine is far from above any country in the world.
    Sincerly, and unfortunetly, I don't think now , it exists in the world a hardware abble to match with their F15, F16, F18, F22, and F35, surely in the near the future, -China, and Russia are working- but not nowadays.

    After the fall of Soviet Union, when russian's and chinese military's budget melted, during the last decade US war machine had 16 trillions of dollars. I don't mean russian's engineers are less intelligent than americans, but in that time, US war machine attracted the best chineses, russians, germans, frencheese, english, arabs, africans, japanese, south, central americans best scientists.
    As they looted the world, unfortunetly they had obviously the best pilots, the best soldiers -they can afford to train them very well- , the best hardwares.
    Now it is a new era that is starting, and let's hope Russia, will have its place, that was betrayed by Yeltsin, and Gorbatchov.

    Regards.


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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:16 pm

    Sincerly, and unfortunetly, I don't think now , it exists in the world a hardware abble to match with their F15, F16, F18, F22, and F35, surely in the near the future, -China, and Russia are working- but not nowadays.

    With respect, the main advantage the US has is largely in marketing and propaganda. The F-15/F-16/F-18 would have been dead in a conflict in the 1980s against Mig-29s and Su-27s... very simply only a few kills would come from BVR missiles which all had a fairly low PK (kill probability), which meant close combat... where the high off boresight R-73 and HMS of both Soviet aircraft would have meant even average pilots could kill western aircraft on sight.

    The F-22 does not even have high off boresight weapons or HMS and would be seriously in trouble against most model Flankers let alone the late model ones like the Su-35 which is now starting to enter service. The F-35 is a plane by committee and might never reach its potential... mainly because it is an everything to everyone aircraft that is likely to fail to meet such high expectations.

    In the field of SAMs the Russians are clearly ahead, while in terms of armour the Russians are getting ready to jump forward a whole generation ahead of the west with their new vehicle families.

    All sorts of new equipment is on the verge of entering service in Russia that will fill many gaps in capability and likely make force cuts easier to accept for the higher ups within the military.

    I suspect these changes will have the opposite effect on the US military who will be wanting increased spending at a time when Russian spending is also increasing even though it is still a fraction of what the US spends.


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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:53 pm

    Was trying to figure out a reply, but GarryB beat me to it, anyway what he said. Neutral

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:20 pm

    Further to add that the reduction in size of the Russian forces is critical to its upgrade... the USAF seem to think they can remain the same size while at the same time replace all their old fighters with new expensive stealth fighters. The Russian military on the other hand clearly intend to produce a few hundred stealth fighters, while keeping new fighters (Su-35, Mig-35) in production with 5th gen avionics and engines even if they lack the stealth features of the true 5th gen fighters they will be competitive but not nearly as expensive as true stealth 5th gen fighters.

    Regarding armour the purpose of using unified vehicle families that share weapons and sensors and electronics is to modularise their forces and allow much smaller logistics tails that only have to deal with one engine family within a brigade, as well as one transmission etc etc for each brigade.

    The hidden change is that the "BTR" wheeled vehicle family will be as well armed and as well armoured as the "BMP" medium weight tracked vehicle family, which means that lots of money can be saved through the increased use of wheeled vehicles that would previously not have been used because of the reduced fire power and lighter armour. The wheeled vehicles are cheaper to buy, cheaper to operate and maintain, and offer excellent mobility on terrain with decent road networks. Even the best tracked vehicle can get stuck in deep mud or deep snow and requires a tow, so wheeled vehicles are not that much worse than tracked vehicles on many types of terrain including rocky.

    For very long range deployments wheeled vehicles are much easier to deploy on roads as sending tracked vehicles either greatly wears their tracks and damages the roads, or requires large heavy trucks that cost a high fraction of a tank to move.


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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  nemrod on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:01 pm

    I think, I was deeply misunderstood.
    I never meaned russians engineers are less intelligents -on contrary, the russians scientists are most of the top in the world- than americans, neither I never evoked the soviet era.
    To be clear during the soviet era, we were not in this ultra-feodal period. Why ? Because the most of the soviet help was to prevent USA to attack Soviet Union'allies or friend. It is no use to mention the feats made by Mikoyan, Pavel Sukhoi, Tupolev, Gourevitch.
    As I said before Mig 15-17-19 were ahead than F86, no use describe the Mig 21, it is a feat itself. Mig 23 and Su 17 were better than Phantom, and all US hardware. The Sukhoi 15-even with mediocre pilots's hands- itself was one of the top soviet aircraft fighter.
    Let's back to the Mig 29, and Su 27, as I said before, there were the best fighters. In that time, never USA could attack, either Iraq, Afghanistan, Yougoslavia, Libya, or Syria.

    But what's happened after 1991 ? The collapse of the Soviet Union, the consequences were a huge tragedy, even for Russia. After the collapse, russian people fought against poverty, the huge combinats went to bankrupties, bought by a few koppecs by the most ugglies bastards oligarchs like Berezovsky, Khodorovsky, Abrahamovics, etc...
    In same times U could see old persons that lived correctly, confortably, during soviet era, selling what they could, few bottles of Coca, some US jeans, etc....In fact, in that time, as you know all, there Russia who lost many of its terrories, and economy became a nightmare. In that context what about the brillant russians scientists ?


    Meanwhile in that time -90's decade- USA impose to the world its version of "Freedom", with the highest military budget in the human history, 16 trillons $,.
    Moreover as they crippled Russia, they invaded Iraq, hence, they have the most dynamic economy, and the richest in the world. What's happened in that time, they could attracted the best scientists in the world, either he was arabs, chinese, south american, as argentinians, or brazilians, even.....german, british, french and japanese scientists rushed to the USA. They could afford to choose the best scientists in the world. Obviously if you gather the best scientists in world, and the best budget, they will give the best results.
    The F-22, F-35, Apache, etc.... must not see as US hardware, but the best world's hardwares.

    Nevertheless for the USA, this era is quickly ending, and now I hope countries like Russia, China, will find back what was their place in the world.
    I hope this time I will be understood.

    Regards.

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  nemrod on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:29 pm


    Report casts doubt on US missile shield in Europe protecting America

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/apnewsbreak-report-casts-doubt-on-missile-shield-in-europe-protecting-america/2013/02/09/6e0c2820-7291-11e2-b3f3-b263d708ca37_story.html

    I think, they cannot afford to maintain their pressure against Russia.
    America is in Bankrupcy. Let's add this info

    http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=303430
    It demonstrates that, we are reaching a turning point, a shift in international area.
    Moreover, I suspect that, this shield, was only a pressure against Russia in the goal of Kremlin's help in Iran's nuclear standoff.
    As USA is going to admit a nuclear Iran, and leaving Israel, this shield is becoming useless, if not embarrassing.


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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  Nigerian general on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:32 pm

    I joined this site today as a military enthusiast thinking i will find like minded individuals in here to discuss military related issues, i MUST SAW I AM AWESTRUCK BY WHAT I AM SEEING IN HERE. This looks more or less like a Russian propaganda defense forum which i must say explains the lack of other nationalities as members. Most of the posts on here are nothing but ill informed analysis clouded by blind nationalistic sentiment. That said i will like to bring out some valid point.

    The United States military outspends that of the next 18 militarizes including China and Russia combined. Her military engineers are top class and well funded. Her RnD is not clouded by propaganda you Russians seem to crave. That aside history has shown that BATTLE, not technical specification is the true arbiter of military technology's value and using this as a barometer the United States is in a league of its own. Yes America is currently engaged in A-STAN and Iraq but that is thousands of miles away from home and they have held their ground. The Soviet Union spent just 7 years in A-STAN but lost more than 26,000 troops until they were forced to pull out. America's conventional military strength is unmatched and that is what Putin has to deal with. You can continue with your masturbatory fantasies of Russia's greatness but that only exists in your own silly wet dreams...

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:15 pm

    Nigerian general wrote:I joined this site today as a military enthusiast thinking i will find like minded individuals in here to discuss military related issues, i MUST SAW I AM AWESTRUCK BY WHAT I AM SEEING IN HERE. This looks more or less like a Russian propaganda defense forum which i must say explains the lack of other nationalities as members. Most of the posts on here are nothing but ill informed analysis clouded by blind nationalistic sentiment. That said i will like to bring out some valid point.

    The United States military outspends that of the next 18 militarizes including China and Russia combined. Her military engineers are top class and well funded. Her RnD is not clouded by propaganda you Russians seem to crave. That aside history has shown that BATTLE, not technical specification is the true arbiter of military technology's value and using this as a barometer the United States is in a league of its own. Yes America is currently engaged in A-STAN and Iraq but that is thousands of miles away from home and they have held their ground. The Soviet Union spent just 7 years in A-STAN but lost more than 26,000 troops until they were forced to pull out. America's conventional military strength is unmatched and that is what Putin has to deal with. You can continue with your masturbatory fantasies of Russia's greatness but that only exists in your own silly wet dreams...

    Dasvidanya

    Hahahahaha...... lol1

    I don't like being harsh, but if you actually believe that, than your in the wrong forum, i believe your looking for F-16.net or StrategyPage.com. Wink

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:34 am

    This looks more or less like a Russian propaganda defense forum which i must say explains the lack of other nationalities as members

    I find this comment amusing... How many actual Russians post here regularly?

    Russian Patriot, Vlad, Flaming Python, TR-1.... there are probably a few others I am forgetting.

    I would suspect there are more foreigners posting here regularly than Russians, and that includes me... I am not Russian.

    Perhaps it is the positive spin on Russian material that results in your knee jerk claim it is propaganda, well the place is called Russian Military Forum, so unless you think the idea of a forum is to p!ss and b!tch and moan what exactly were you expecting.

    If I go to F16.com should I expect a balanced open minded rating of a Eurofighter or anything that is not American?

    Most of the posts on here are nothing but ill informed analysis clouded by blind nationalistic sentiment. That said i will like to bring out some valid point.

    So comment one in your first post on this forum is that it is a front for the FSB, and you think we will listen to the truth as you see it and we will open our eyes for the first time and realise that... what exactly?

    The United States military outspends that of the next 18 militarizes including China and Russia combined.

    And Hollywood stars probably spend more on boob jobs and fake bits and makeup than most real women spend in their lifetimes, but I'd take a real woman any time over those prissy fake wannabes.

    You can spend millions on a wrist watch if you want to but that doesn't make it any better than a $20 Casio in terms of actually keeping good time.

    Her military engineers are top class and well funded. Her RnD is not clouded by propaganda you Russians seem to crave.

    In the 1980s a famous US University got a US Army contract to explore the effect of head injuries. They got about $3 million dollars to shoot 100 cats in the head, put them all on life support machines and then monitored them. Their ground shattering findings were that a cat with brain trauma could be kept alive indefinitely, but the chances of a recovery were nil.

    Money well spent. But then the same university got a follow up contract for the same experiment with 100 dogs... for $6 million dollars. I guess they are on to Parrots by now.

    That aside history has shown that BATTLE, not technical specification is the true arbiter of military technology's value and using this as a barometer the United States is in a league of its own.

    America is certainly on its own in terms of creating, escalating, and reigniting conflict around the world, but many of the lessons go unlearned, and many other lessons apply to small conflicts against unsophisticated enemies which will likely lead to serious problems against a capable protagonist.

    Case in point the Iraqis remained static and didn't use their forces very effectively in either conflict with the US, whereas the Serbians managed to hold out for more than two months without the tools to do the job, but with much better tactics.

    Yes America is currently engaged in A-STAN and Iraq but that is thousands of miles away from home and they have held their ground. The Soviet Union spent just 7 years in A-STAN but lost more than 26,000 troops until they were forced to pull out.

    The Soviets fought Afghans supported by a super power, the Americans are fighting forces supported largely by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Without US intervention in the 1980s Afghanistan might be like Vietnam is now... a bit damaged but moving forward.

    America's conventional military strength is unmatched and that is what Putin has to deal with.

    Rubbish. The US is not conventional threat to Russia because Russia has nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them to the US.

    Americas conventional military is certainly unmatched, but then what does that actually mean when little countries like Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iran and Iraq and even Serbia can't be subdued for very long.

    You can continue with your masturbatory fantasies of Russia's greatness but that only exists in your own silly wet dreams...

    So our interests in Russian weapons is somehow sickening and peverted, yet your unabashed love for the US is the normal we should hope to attain if we are lucky and work hard?

    The reality is that the US military is boring to me.

    The tragedy to me is that a lot of the morality and values that comes from the US I actually fully support and think are quite noble... the problem is that they are full of sht saying what sounds good and doing often worse things than those countries they try to paint as evil.

    It seems Iran and North Korea are threats to world peace... the reality is that they are jumping up and down shouting this hoping you wont notice there is only one country that can possibly have the military and economic and political power to create such problems... the US.

    Iran largely just wants to be left alone like most other countries on the planet.

    To put it in Hollywood terms... in fact Star Trek terms the US claims to come in peace and claims to have a policy of non intervention, but the practical result is that they are actually the Borg... but a strange strain of the Borg... they didn't even invent their own language... they took it and butchered it and made it their own, and then they bought up new technologies from around the place and claimed they were theirs, yet something has happened... they have grown to a state where they thing they are the centre of the universe and that the rest of the world would be better if they were just more like the US so instead of assimilating other cultures they are trying to substitute them for their own.

    Yeah... no thanks.

    The irony is that independence seems to be something they hate now yet was supposed to be one of the foundations on which their culture was built.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    TR1
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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:17 am

    Nigerian general wrote:I joined this site today as a military enthusiast thinking i will find like minded individuals in here to discuss military related issues, i MUST SAW I AM AWESTRUCK BY WHAT I AM SEEING IN HERE. This looks more or less like a Russian propaganda defense forum which i must say explains the lack of other nationalities as members. Most of the posts on here are nothing but ill informed analysis clouded by blind nationalistic sentiment. That said i will like to bring out some valid point.

    The United States military outspends that of the next 18 militarizes including China and Russia combined. Her military engineers are top class and well funded. Her RnD is not clouded by propaganda you Russians seem to crave. That aside history has shown that BATTLE, not technical specification is the true arbiter of military technology's value and using this as a barometer the United States is in a league of its own. Yes America is currently engaged in A-STAN and Iraq but that is thousands of miles away from home and they have held their ground. The Soviet Union spent just 7 years in A-STAN but lost more than 26,000 troops until they were forced to pull out. America's conventional military strength is unmatched and that is what Putin has to deal with. You can continue with your masturbatory fantasies of Russia's greatness but that only exists in your own silly wet dreams...

    Dasvidanya

    Whatever helps you sleep easier at night.

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:36 am

    An amusing irony is that it is the Russian posters that tend to be more pessimistic than other posters... so much for Russian propaganda... Rolling Eyes

    Of course the west has to believe its own BS... otherwise they are the bad guys they are trying to warn everyone against... they have to destroy those villages/countries... to save them.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    flamming_python
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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:53 am

    GarryB wrote:To put it in Hollywood terms... in fact Star Trek terms the US claims to come in peace and claims to have a policy of non intervention, but the practical result is that they are actually the Borg... but a strange strain of the Borg... they didn't even invent their own language... they took it and butchered it and made it their own, and then they bought up new technologies from around the place and claimed they were theirs, yet something has happened... they have grown to a state where they thing they are the centre of the universe and that the rest of the world would be better if they were just more like the US so instead of assimilating other cultures they are trying to substitute them for their own.

    Yeah... no thanks.

    The irony is that independence seems to be something they hate now yet was supposed to be one of the foundations on which their culture was built.

    Ultimately this goes for every powerful empire, when they attain enough might and supremacy.
    The fate that befalls such empires is that they are inevitably blinded by their own jingonism and nationalism.
    Especially in the current situation, when there is no competing ideal, no antithesis, no real alternative to the US's vision of how the world should be, or how they should attain this utopia.

    The US government honestly believes that they are making the world a better place at the same time as they are following their interests in a belligerent manner and grabbing anything they want from anyone.

    In fact though, they are just following their interests in a belligerent manner and grabbing anything they want... but by thus doing making the world a worse place, not a better one.

    Nigerian general
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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  Nigerian general on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:34 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    GarryB wrote:To put it in Hollywood terms... in fact Star Trek terms the US claims to come in peace and claims to have a policy of non intervention, but the practical result is that they are actually the Borg... but a strange strain of the Borg... they didn't even invent their own language... they took it and butchered it and made it their own, and then they bought up new technologies from around the place and claimed they were theirs, yet something has happened... they have grown to a state where they thing they are the centre of the universe and that the rest of the world would be better if they were just more like the US so instead of assimilating other cultures they are trying to substitute them for their own.

    Yeah... no thanks.

    The irony is that independence seems to be something they hate now yet was supposed to be one of the foundations on which their culture was built.

    Ultimately this goes for every powerful empire, when they attain enough might and supremacy.
    The fate that befalls such empires is that they are inevitably blinded by their own jingonism and nationalism.
    Especially in the current situation, when there is no competing ideal, no antithesis, no real alternative to the US's vision of how the world should be, or how they should attain this utopia.

    The US government honestly believes that they are making the world a better place at the same time as they are following their interests in a belligerent manner and grabbing anything they want from anyone.

    In fact though, they are just following their interests in a belligerent manner and grabbing anything they want... but by thus doing making the world a worse place, not a better one.

    Dude shut the fuck up... dont get it twisted, i am not pro American but A. America has its ugly side no doubt but it makes me sick to my stomach when i see these sensleless Anti American bashing. America this America that bladabladabla. America is the most benign of all former empires. Superpower status in the hands of European powers cost the world two world wars and over hundreds of millions dead. Take that Japan and China as well. Russia and China with a conventional military force the size and capability of the U.S will paint half the world Red. Even at its present level you see China having territorial disputes with 12 countries, China has engaged in military adventurism with virtually all countries she shares bothers with, even claiming territories as far as the shores of Brunei. Russia is worse, at its height Russia held the enitrre Eastern Union with an iron fist and threatened to accomplished what Hitler failed to do. The only deterent was America's nuclear forces in Europe. So keep on with this propaganda bull shit and talk of America's decline, Russia's rise bladabladabla, it changes nothing on the ground.

    Superpower Russia, a couple of your citizens were arrested in my country months ago on charges of smuggling arms.. what are you guys gonna do about it? Nuke Lagos? lol

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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:44 pm

    Your jimmies be rustlin'

    flamming_python
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    Re: NATO Missile shield plan and USA's point:

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:17 pm

    Nigerian general wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    GarryB wrote:To put it in Hollywood terms... in fact Star Trek terms the US claims to come in peace and claims to have a policy of non intervention, but the practical result is that they are actually the Borg... but a strange strain of the Borg... they didn't even invent their own language... they took it and butchered it and made it their own, and then they bought up new technologies from around the place and claimed they were theirs, yet something has happened... they have grown to a state where they thing they are the centre of the universe and that the rest of the world would be better if they were just more like the US so instead of assimilating other cultures they are trying to substitute them for their own.

    Yeah... no thanks.

    The irony is that independence seems to be something they hate now yet was supposed to be one of the foundations on which their culture was built.

    Ultimately this goes for every powerful empire, when they attain enough might and supremacy.
    The fate that befalls such empires is that they are inevitably blinded by their own jingonism and nationalism.
    Especially in the current situation, when there is no competing ideal, no antithesis, no real alternative to the US's vision of how the world should be, or how they should attain this utopia.

    The US government honestly believes that they are making the world a better place at the same time as they are following their interests in a belligerent manner and grabbing anything they want from anyone.

    In fact though, they are just following their interests in a belligerent manner and grabbing anything they want... but by thus doing making the world a worse place, not a better one.

    Dude shut the fuck up... dont get it twisted, i am not pro American but A. America has its ugly side no doubt but it makes me sick to my stomach when i see these sensleless Anti American bashing. America this America that bladabladabla. America is the most benign of all former empires. Superpower status in the hands of European powers cost the world two world wars and over hundreds of millions dead. Take that Japan and China as well. Russia and China with a conventional military force the size and capability of the U.S will paint half the world Red. Even at its present level you see China having territorial disputes with 12 countries, China has engaged in military adventurism with virtually all countries she shares bothers with, even claiming territories as far as the shores of Brunei. Russia is worse, at its height Russia held the enitrre Eastern Union with an iron fist and threatened to accomplished what Hitler failed to do. The only deterent was America's nuclear forces in Europe. So keep on with this propaganda bull shit and talk of America's decline, Russia's rise bladabladabla, it changes nothing on the ground.

    Superpower Russia, a couple of your citizens were arrested in my country months ago on charges of smuggling arms.. what are you guys gonna do about it? Nuke Lagos? lol

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