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    Su-24 Fencer

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    eridan

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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  eridan on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:51

    Any news on the number of Su-24 in service as of now? Air International had a text by Alex Mladenov in June where he wrote:
    4 squadrons of Su24M remain, with two of them slated to receive Su-34 by the end of the year. That'd suggest some 50 something planes, with training/attrition airframes accounted for. In addtion he mentions some 40 recon variants of Su-24 remaining until 2020-mid 2020s when they will be retired.

    Any changes to that?
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  franco on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 22:37

    eridan wrote:Any news on the number of Su-24 in service as of now? Air International had a text by Alex Mladenov in June where he wrote:
    4 squadrons of Su24M remain, with two of them slated to receive Su-34 by the end of the year. That'd suggest some 50 something planes, with training/attrition airframes accounted for. In addtion he mentions some 40 recon variants of Su-24 remaining until 2020-mid 2020s when they will be retired.

    Any changes to that?

    Including Naval Aviation could be 8 squadrons plus training aircraft.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 10:28

    eridan wrote:Any news on the number of Su-24 in service as of now? Air International had a text by Alex Mladenov in June where he wrote:
    4 squadrons of Su24M remain, with two of them slated to receive Su-34 by the end of the year. That'd suggest some 50 something planes, with training/attrition airframes accounted for. In addtion he mentions some 40 recon variants of Su-24 remaining until 2020-mid 2020s when they will be retired.

    Any changes to that?
    It's probably about right or maybe more su-24 in service. With their upgrades su-24 are still useful and I'd imagine those in syria will likely remain in service for quite sometime. There's other areas which need more attention for replacement. But I have to admit that procurement of su-34 has been quite rapid compared to other aircraft. The navy have a smaller number of su-24 and if am right (correct me if I am wrong) that around 50% have already been replaced by su-30. 

    Its looking likely that su-24 will be fully replaced before any other aircraft. Su-25 will be upgraded as will a certain number of mig-31 with eventual replacement.  Su-27 is being replaced by a mix of su-30 & su-35. And last to be replaced is mig-29 with mig-35 which seems to be a low priority. You might find the mig-29smt will be sent to their base in syria and on russian soil will be just mig-35. Does anyone know is su-35 is now only aircraft to be replacing su-27 or are they still purchasing su-30 to replace them as well.
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    eridan

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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  eridan on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 10:53

    Yes, the Air international text said the figure addressed only the Air force numbers. Supposedly there was to be the second part of analysis covering naval aviation, but to date i haven't seen it in air international magazine.

    Would that mean that naval aviation is basically using more combat su-24 than the air force at the moment? 2-4 squadrons compared to 4 squadrons for the navy? What sort of additional numbers are we looking at for training? 10%? 30%?

    Are combat squadrons 12 planes or more?
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  franco on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 21:15

    eridan wrote:Yes, the Air international text said the figure addressed only the Air force numbers. Supposedly there was to be the second part of analysis covering naval aviation, but to date i haven't seen it in air international magazine.

    Would that mean that naval aviation is basically  using more combat su-24 than the air force at the moment? 2-4 squadrons compared to 4 squadrons for the navy?  What sort of additional numbers are we looking at for training? 10%? 30%?

    Are combat squadrons 12 planes or more?

    12 planes for most. Long range bombers may be less.

    3 squadrons under Naval control, 4 in Russia VKS plus 1 in Syria. Probably 20-25 left in training units.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  franco on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 21:20

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eridan wrote:Any news on the number of Su-24 in service as of now? Air International had a text by Alex Mladenov in June where he wrote:
    4 squadrons of Su24M remain, with two of them slated to receive Su-34 by the end of the year. That'd suggest some 50 something planes, with training/attrition airframes accounted for. In addtion he mentions some 40 recon variants of Su-24 remaining until 2020-mid 2020s when they will be retired.

    Any changes to that?
    It's probably about right or maybe more su-24 in service. With their upgrades su-24 are still useful and I'd imagine those in syria will likely remain in service for quite sometime. There's other areas which need more attention for replacement. But I have to admit that procurement of su-34 has been quite rapid compared to other aircraft. The navy have a smaller number of su-24 and if am right (correct me if I am wrong) that around 50% have already been replaced by su-30. 

    Its looking likely that su-24 will be fully replaced before any other aircraft. Su-25 will be upgraded as will a certain number of mig-31 with eventual replacement.  Su-27 is being replaced by a mix of su-30 & su-35. And last to be replaced is mig-29 with mig-35 which seems to be a low priority. You might find the mig-29smt will be sent to their base in syria and on russian soil will be just mig-35. Does anyone know is su-35 is now only aircraft to be replacing su-27 or are they still purchasing su-30 to replace them as well.

    They say they will be ordering more Su-30SM's. As for the naval aviation, the regiments had basically run down into just having 1 squadron of flyable Su-24's left. The Su-30's have just been added as a second squadron to date.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 08:33

    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    eridan wrote:Any news on the number of Su-24 in service as of now? Air International had a text by Alex Mladenov in June where he wrote:
    4 squadrons of Su24M remain, with two of them slated to receive Su-34 by the end of the year. That'd suggest some 50 something planes, with training/attrition airframes accounted for. In addtion he mentions some 40 recon variants of Su-24 remaining until 2020-mid 2020s when they will be retired.

    Any changes to that?
    It's probably about right or maybe more su-24 in service. With their upgrades su-24 are still useful and I'd imagine those in syria will likely remain in service for quite sometime. There's other areas which need more attention for replacement. But I have to admit that procurement of su-34 has been quite rapid compared to other aircraft. The navy have a smaller number of su-24 and if am right (correct me if I am wrong) that around 50% have already been replaced by su-30. 

    Its looking likely that su-24 will be fully replaced before any other aircraft. Su-25 will be upgraded as will a certain number of mig-31 with eventual replacement.  Su-27 is being replaced by a mix of su-30 & su-35. And last to be replaced is mig-29 with mig-35 which seems to be a low priority. You might find the mig-29smt will be sent to their base in syria and on russian soil will be just mig-35. Does anyone know is su-35 is now only aircraft to be replacing su-27 or are they still purchasing su-30 to replace them as well.

    They say they will be ordering more Su-30SM's. As for the naval aviation, the regiments had basically run down into just having 1 squadron of flyable Su-24's left. The Su-30's have just been added as a second squadron to date.
    So su-35 is not replacing replacing the remaining su-27 and only X amount of su-35 will be bought with continued purchases of su-30sm in til su-27 are replaced? ? I wonder how quick mig-29 replaced as no sign of it being replaced quickly as yet and they must be equally worn.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  George1 on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 11:45

    so the Su-24s now in service are about 100?
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  franco on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 12:48

    George1 wrote:so the Su-24s now in service are about 100?

    Around 120 plus 40 or so Su-24MR's.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  franco on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 13:02

    So su-35 is not replacing replacing the remaining su-27 and only X amount of su-35 will be bought with continued purchases of su-30sm in til su-27 are replaced? ? I wonder how quick mig-29 replaced as no sign of it being replaced quickly as yet and they must be equally worn.


    - Su-35 still replacing Su-27's
    - Probably only 5 combat squadrons still active with the Su-27. Another 3 squadrons of Su-27SM's and shortly 2 squadrons of Su-27SM3.
    - By the end of 2020 probably only a couple of Su-27 squadrons left.
    - Probably 50-60 Mig-29, -29UB and -29S's left. Some have received limited upgrades. Plus 50 Mig-29SMT/UBM active.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 17:54

    franco wrote:So su-35 is not replacing replacing the remaining su-27 and only X amount of su-35 will be bought with continued purchases of su-30sm in til su-27 are replaced? ? I wonder how quick mig-29 replaced as no sign of it being replaced quickly as yet and they must be equally worn.


    - Su-35 still replacing Su-27's
    - Probably only 5 combat squadrons still active with the Su-27. Another 3 squadrons of Su-27SM's and shortly 2 squadrons of Su-27SM3.
    - By the end of 2020 probably only a couple of Su-27 squadrons left.
    - Probably 50-60 Mig-29, -29UB and -29S's left. Some have received limited upgrades. Plus 50 Mig-29SMT/UBM active.
    So come 2025 what's figures are you expecting? I know it's a bit of guess. 
    Su-35?
    Su-30?
    Su-27sm/sm3? 
    Su-34
    Mig-29/smt 
    Mig-35
    Su-24 all variants 
    Mig-31 
    Su-25 sm3? ?
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  franco on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 23:06

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    franco wrote:So su-35 is not replacing replacing the remaining su-27 and only X amount of su-35 will be bought with continued purchases of su-30sm in til su-27 are replaced? ? I wonder how quick mig-29 replaced as no sign of it being replaced quickly as yet and they must be equally worn.


    - Su-35 still replacing Su-27's
    - Probably only 5 combat squadrons still active with the Su-27. Another 3 squadrons of Su-27SM's and shortly 2 squadrons of Su-27SM3.
    - By the end of 2020 probably only a couple of Su-27 squadrons left.
    - Probably 50-60 Mig-29, -29UB and -29S's left. Some have received limited upgrades. Plus 50 Mig-29SMT/UBM active.

    So come 2025 what's figures are you expecting? I know it's a bit of guess. 


    Su-35 - 160
    Su-30 - 160-180
    Su-27sm/sm3 - 70-80
    Su-34 - 180-200
    Mig-29/smt - 100 (including the K's)
    Mig-35 - 20-30
    Su-24 all variants - 100-120
    Mig-31 - 120
    Su-25 sm3 - 120 (including SM)
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun 11 Nov 2018, 10:16

    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    franco wrote:So su-35 is not replacing replacing the remaining su-27 and only X amount of su-35 will be bought with continued purchases of su-30sm in til su-27 are replaced? ? I wonder how quick mig-29 replaced as no sign of it being replaced quickly as yet and they must be equally worn.


    - Su-35 still replacing Su-27's
    - Probably only 5 combat squadrons still active with the Su-27. Another 3 squadrons of Su-27SM's and shortly 2 squadrons of Su-27SM3.
    - By the end of 2020 probably only a couple of Su-27 squadrons left.
    - Probably 50-60 Mig-29, -29UB and -29S's left. Some have received limited upgrades. Plus 50 Mig-29SMT/UBM active.

    So come 2025 what's figures are you expecting? I know it's a bit of guess. 


    Su-35 - 160
    Su-30 - 160-180  
    Su-27sm/sm3 - 70-80
    Su-34 - 180-200
    Mig-29/smt - 100 (including the K's)
    Mig-35 - 20-30
    Su-24 all variants - 100-120
    Mig-31 - 120
    Su-25 sm3 - 120 (including SM)
    So despite the rapid purchases of su-34 the su-24 will be still in service in 6-7yrs ok.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  Militarov on Sun 11 Nov 2018, 20:16

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    So despite the rapid purchases of su-34 the su-24 will be still in service in 6-7yrs ok.

    Make it 15.
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    hoom

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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  hoom on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 04:21

    Has anyone seen a photo of an Su-24 actually flying with Kh-31 missiles?
    From what I can work out they're capable of carrying 2* & there are pics of 'loadout arrays' with Kh-31 in the array but I couldn't find an actual pic of an Su-24 carrying one.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  Hole on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 11:16



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    hoom

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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  hoom on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 13:37

    Cool, thanks Very Happy
    So indeed 2*, whats on the centerline? The B&W one looks like a targeting pod or EW? The colour one looks like a bomb.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  medo on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 14:29

    hoom wrote:Cool, thanks  Very Happy
    So indeed 2*, whats on the centerline? The B&W one looks like a targeting pod or EW? The colour one looks like a bomb.

    In B&W Picture it is standard Su-24M and it use the same Fantasmagoria pod to program anti-radar missiles like with Kh-58.




    In the picture below is modernized Su-24M, as it have new HUD, so it is either Su-24M2 (more likely) or Gefest Su-24M with SVP-24. Considering that this Su-24M doesn't have Fantasmagoria pod, this could be anti-ship Kh-38A missile or this Su-24M have L-150 Pastel RWR integrated to program anti-radar missiles. On the central pylon it is KAB-1500L laser guided bomb.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  Isos on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 14:35


    In B&W Picture it is standard Su-24M and it use the same Fantasmagoria pod to program anti-radar missiles like with Kh-58.

    New fighters like su-30SM will use their own radars for programing anti radar missiles.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  Hole on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 16:40

    Not radar. ECM/ESM system.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  medo on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 18:29

    Isos wrote:

    In B&W Picture it is standard Su-24M and it use the same Fantasmagoria pod to program anti-radar missiles like with Kh-58.

    New fighters like su-30SM will use their own radars for programing anti radar missiles.

    L-150 Pastel RWR/ELINT is capable to program both anti radar missiles and AAMs.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  Isos on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 19:05

    Hole wrote:Not radar. ECM/ESM system.

    I have seen (maybe official, don't remember) posters of russian radars saying it can be used for using anti radar.

    L-150 Pastel RWR/ELINT is capable to program both anti radar missiles and AAMs.

    For AAM it is a common thing now. Rafale's spectra and f-22 can do this too. Not sure for typhoon.
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    hoom

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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  hoom on Sun 02 Dec 2018, 01:29

    TY for additional info thumbsup

    If Su-24 can carry 2* Kh-31 and a KAB 1500 then they could potentially put a 3rd Kh-31 on that central pylon instead? Maybe not enough ground clearance?
    Weight wise a 4th but no appropriate pylon.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 22:14

    Not 100% topic related 

    but the gefest system can effectively be mounted on anything. I've read a few articles and they stated its mounted on su-24, Su-25, Tu-22m ka-52. The first three I've heard of it being on there but ka-52? also if su-34 is a replacement for su-24 shouldn't it also have the system as in syrian type conflict is was very cost effective.

    Also I read accuracy of 3-5m although many articles have doubted this and suggest 25-40m anyone confirm this. 

    another thing couldn't Russia export the system I'd imagine it would be very popular especially with the poorer nations they could use any existing aircraft rotary, jet, helicopter, this would include cargo planes. iraq am sure would have loved it and Russia could do a sneaky deal with Iran. Iran could put it on its su-22 and homegrown F-5 projects.  iraq could put it on its L-159 and it would have been a better option for its hellfire armed cessna to have than firing expensive hellfire all the time. Russia could also offer it as an upgrade for yak-130 purchases. China could use it on its H-6 and India on its tejas(once it gets off the ground lol) as a dedicated strike version,  could also work in conjunction with embraer for an option for its super tucano. many countries are still using older aircraft and likely will be in years to come mig-21, mig-23, j-7, f-5, alpha jet, L-39, pucara, bae hawk, mirage, jaguar, to name a few even interceptors could get turned into dedicated strike aircraft. and of course cargo planes. This another reason I like the system it's not just cost effective but can be installed on almost anything and initially it could surprise the enemy thinking that simple trainer or cargo plane is in the area or flying head and the next minute a handful of bombs are raining down on you. imagine an enemy convoy and an IL-76 flying over head unleashes 40-60 tons of bombs with fairly good accuracy  Twisted Evil .
    many countries I am sure would love the system as not every country can afford the luxury of smart munitions or purchase large quantities. and the system I'd imagine doesn't cost the earth. great export potential.
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    Re: Su-24 Fencer

    Post  franco on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 00:18

    Su-34 has it's own system and doesn't need the gefest. Also the gefest is being put on the Su-33.

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