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    Su-24 Fencer

    medo
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    Post  medo on Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:20 am

    New modern fighters like Su-30M2/SM, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-29K and modernized ones like Su-25SM/3, Su-24M2, MiG-29SMT don't need SVP-24 as their modern fire control and navigation complex already have the same capabilities. SVP-24 will not bring any improvement to them.

    Ka-52 doesn'thave SVP-24 and doesn't need it. It is true, that RuAF will arm Ka-52 with guided and unguided bombs up to 500kg, but it will not get SVP-24. They will only integrate them in its existing FCS and install new software.

    Gefest install SVP-24-50 to single seat attack helicopter Ka-50.

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    In Ka-50 cockpit you could see VM-10 LCD from SVP-24. RuAF got some serial Ka-50 before production of Ka-52 started and they were equipped with SVP-24-50. I don't know, if they are operational now.


    Interesting is, that Su-33 got modified VM-10 LCD with additional buttons around it to make it real MFD in contrast with VM-10 LCD in Tu-22 and Ka-50.

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    On the left pilot could choose in menu up and down. On the right have buttons for SVP, navigation and HUD Picture and additional buttons. In the botton row it have distances for radar ground mapping similar to Su-24M Orion-A radar only with longer range of 300 km. Also it have upper buttons for unknown functions. It actually looks like SVP-24-33 was just part of modernization, which also include other parts. It seems radar was also modernized and become multirole with A-A, A-G and A-S modes. Time will tell, what new armament will Su-33 get with this modernization.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:45 pm

    Does gefest only work with free fall bombs or can it be used to help/aid the use of rockets such as S-24,S-25, S-5/8/13 etc basically unguided rockets
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:46 am

    It is a fire control and navigation system, so it should work by predicting the paths of unguided weapons... both free fall and rocket propelled.

    My understanding of the Mi-35M upgrade (with the under nose optics ball turret) that the introduction of the laser range finder and ballistics computer greatly improved the effective range and accuracy of the cannons and rockets, as well as improving the performance of Ataka and Shturm.
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    Post  medo on Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:32 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:Does gefest only work with free fall bombs or can it be used to help/aid the use of rockets such as S-24,S-25, S-5/8/13 etc basically unguided rockets

    Interesting question. SVP-24 could help with target delivery and map, that pilot could better choose how to attack the target. But for attack itself I'm not sure. Those rockets have quite short range and are aimed to the target through HUD or older visier. Unguided rockets are primarily used to cover area, not against single targets. That mean against infantry. For attacking on single target they already have laser guided rockets like S-8KOR, S-13KOR,... Maybe if they increse the range of rockets, than Gefest could help. But new helicopters Ka-52 and Mi-28N and Su-25SM/3 already have modern FCS and don't need SVP-24. It is useful only to upgrade older planes and helicopters, like those in Syria, Iraq, Lybia,... It is interesting, that Gefest didn't install SVP-24 on Mi-24 helicopter.
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    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:56 pm

    Su-24MR reconnaissance plane enters service with air regiment in Russia’s Central Command


    "The Su-24MR has arrived for the composite air division of the 14th Air Force and Air Defense Army of the Central Military District stationed in the Chelyabinsk Region," the press office said in a statement.

    The Su-24MR is a tactical reconnaissance plane fitted out with radar reconnaissance equipment and the image-recording capability. It can develop a supersonic speed at extremely low altitudes. For this purpose, the plane’s design offers the variable sweep-wing option. The reconnaissance plane can develop a maximum speed of 1,700 km/h and has a service ceiling of 11,500 meters.

    https://tass.com/defense/1074627


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    Post  franco on Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:00 pm

    George1 wrote:Su-24MR reconnaissance plane enters service with air regiment in Russia’s Central Command


    "The Su-24MR has arrived for the composite air division of the 14th Air Force and Air Defense Army of the Central Military District stationed in the Chelyabinsk Region," the press office said in a statement.

    The Su-24MR is a tactical reconnaissance plane fitted out with radar reconnaissance equipment and the image-recording capability. It can develop a supersonic speed at extremely low altitudes. For this purpose, the plane’s design offers the variable sweep-wing option. The reconnaissance plane can develop a maximum speed of 1,700 km/h and has a service ceiling of 11,500 meters.

    https://tass.com/defense/1074627



    This is strange due to the fact that a squadron already is there. Perhaps this is the -24MR aircraft that was just listed as being given a maintenance overhaul.
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    Post  kopyo-21 on Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:19 am

    medo wrote:New modern fighters like Su-30M2/SM, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-29K and modernized ones like Su-25SM/3, Su-24M2, MiG-29SMT don't need SVP-24 as their modern fire control and navigation complex already have the same capabilities. SVP-24 will not bring any improvement to them.
    No, Gefest & T SVP-24 is an unique complex that no any relevant complex in the world can compare with so far. In some live fire exercises, Su-34s showed its capability to drop dumb bombs far less accurate than Su-24M Gefest & T.

    Even now, SVP-24 has been upgraded with new super computers, developed by Era Military Technopolis in Anapa, which make the accuracy of unguided munitions be further improved.

    https://topwar.ru/157691-pricelno-navigacionnyj-kompleks-svp-24-gefest-budet-modernizirovan.html
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:31 am

    SU-24 is still and incredibly capable system. I wonder how much airframe life they still have. I suspect quite a lot as there was that 10-15 years where very few hours were flown. When the F-111s were retired by Australia there was a huge debate about the loss of capability. SU-34 appears superior in every aspect. But the West has no analogue. Closest is the Tornado but that is getting pretty close to retired.

    I wonder why India would not pick up 50 or so. They could really use the capability and are desperate for airframes.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:24 am

    mnztr wrote:SU-24 is still and incredibly capable system. I wonder how much airframe life they still have. I suspect quite a lot as there was that 10-15 years where very few hours were flown. When the F-111s were retired by Australia there was a huge debate about the loss of capability. SU-34 appears superior in every aspect. But the West has no analogue. Closest is the Tornado but that is getting pretty close to retired.

    I wonder why India would not pick up 50 or so. They could really use the capability and are desperate for airframes.


    Yes still a decent aircraft with upgrades and particularly with the gefest etc allowing dropping of dumb bombs accurately that would be useful to countries hope don't have the money to buy expensive guided munitions but still need to bomb targets.

    It depends on how well they were kept during the low flying hours period.

    As for India they don't really go around buying second hand aircraft and I suspect Russia wants to sell Su-34 rather than second hand su-24 although there was talk of selling them to Argentina. Russia could still sell to poorer nations and strip them for parts to sell other countries still using them you might find some may get shipped to Syrian Air Force once their su-22 are completely exhausted as its unlikely they will be able to buy su-34 and Russia won't donate su-34. The issue you have is that it has a specific role and any poorer country needing aircraft will likely buy a multi role aircraft that can foremost perform interceptor/ air defense and strike missions and for that they could buy mig-29m. If they buy su-24 they still need to buy a dedicated interceptor and then maintain both types of aircraft.

    I am a fan of the aircraft and think it's been a vital aircraft for Russian in Syrian due to dumb bomb system which has allowed Russia to bomb targets much more cheaply than any western equivalent bombing campaign.
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:51 pm

    gefest has additional pluses as once the bomb is dropped it cannot be spoofed or jammed in any way. Its coming. I wonder if gefest can do lob bombing that used to be  quite popular, Add some sub wings and who knows what the stand off range would be....Yes I can see Syria wanting them although the range will set of alarm bells. I am sure Iran would dearly wany them but Israel and the US would have  STROKE. Vietnam would possibly want them but China would have a stroke. Indonesia would want them but Australia would have a stroke MATE!! Venezuela should load up on them and KH-31s, that will have thea USN steering well clear .


    Last edited by mnztr on Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:00 pm

    mnztr wrote:gefest has additional pluses as once the bomb is dropped it cannot be spoofed or jammed in any way. Its coming. I wonder if gefest can do lob bombing that used to be  quite popular, Add some sub wings and who knows what the stand off range would be....Yes I can see Syria wanting them although the range will set of alarm bells. I am sure Iran would dearly wany them but Israel and the US would have  STROKE.

    Syria already has around 18-20 in service and Iran has 23 in service although unlikely to have gefest but am sure Russia could easily apply it to their aircraft even through the backdoor to Iran, Iran passing it off as their own version. But Russia could sell more to these countries once sanctions lifted on Iran.
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:53 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:gefest has additional pluses as once the bomb is dropped it cannot be spoofed or jammed in any way. Its coming. I wonder if gefest can do lob bombing that used to be  quite popular, Add some sub wings and who knows what the stand off range would be....Yes I can see Syria wanting them although the range will set of alarm bells. I am sure Iran would dearly wany them but Israel and the US would have  STROKE.

    Syria already has around 18-20 in service and Iran has 23 in service although unlikely to have gefest but am sure Russia could easily apply it to their aircraft even through the backdoor to Iran,  Iran passing it off as their own version.  But Russia could sell more to these countries once sanctions lifted on Iran.  

    Under the P5+1 deal the sanctions have been lifted AFIK, only the US still has sanctions. Russia hestitates to sell top weapons to Iran because they don't trust them either.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:46 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:gefest has additional pluses as once the bomb is dropped it cannot be spoofed or jammed in any way. Its coming. I wonder if gefest can do lob bombing that used to be  quite popular, Add some sub wings and who knows what the stand off range would be....Yes I can see Syria wanting them although the range will set of alarm bells. I am sure Iran would dearly wany them but Israel and the US would have  STROKE.

    Syria already has around 18-20 in service and Iran has 23 in service although unlikely to have gefest but am sure Russia could easily apply it to their aircraft even through the backdoor to Iran,  Iran passing it off as their own version.  But Russia could sell more to these countries once sanctions lifted on Iran.  

    Under the P5+1 deal the sanctions have been lifted AFIK, only the US still has sanctions. Russia hestitates to sell top weapons to Iran because they don't trust them either.

    Su-24 isn't really top end item anymore I'd say the sale of S-300 they sold to them did cause a lot of attention I'd imagine the sale of su-24 wouldn't cause much of a stir as Iran already has su-24.
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:20 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:gefest has additional pluses as once the bomb is dropped it cannot be spoofed or jammed in any way. Its coming. I wonder if gefest can do lob bombing that used to be  quite popular, Add some sub wings and who knows what the stand off range would be....Yes I can see Syria wanting them although the range will set of alarm bells. I am sure Iran would dearly wany them but Israel and the US would have  STROKE.

    Syria already has around 18-20 in service and Iran has 23 in service although unlikely to have gefest but am sure Russia could easily apply it to their aircraft even through the backdoor to Iran,  Iran passing it off as their own version.  But Russia could sell more to these countries once sanctions lifted on Iran.  

    Under the P5+1 deal the sanctions have been lifted AFIK, only the US still has sanctions. Russia hestitates to sell top weapons to Iran because they don't trust them either.

    Su-24 isn't really top end item anymore I'd say the sale of S-300 they sold to them did cause a lot of attention I'd imagine the sale of su-24 wouldn't cause much of a stir as Iran already has su-24.

    The plane isn't but KH-31s will give the US a STROKE!!!
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:49 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:gefest has additional pluses as once the bomb is dropped it cannot be spoofed or jammed in any way. Its coming. I wonder if gefest can do lob bombing that used to be  quite popular, Add some sub wings and who knows what the stand off range would be....Yes I can see Syria wanting them although the range will set of alarm bells. I am sure Iran would dearly wany them but Israel and the US would have  STROKE.

    Syria already has around 18-20 in service and Iran has 23 in service although unlikely to have gefest but am sure Russia could easily apply it to their aircraft even through the backdoor to Iran,  Iran passing it off as their own version.  But Russia could sell more to these countries once sanctions lifted on Iran.  

    Under the P5+1 deal the sanctions have been lifted AFIK, only the US still has sanctions. Russia hestitates to sell top weapons to Iran because they don't trust them either.

    Su-24 isn't really top end item anymore I'd say the sale of S-300 they sold to them did cause a lot of attention I'd imagine the sale of su-24 wouldn't cause much of a stir as Iran already has su-24.

    The plane isn't but KH-31s will give the US a STROKE!!!

    Selling aircraft and selling missiles completely different thing. They don't have to sell them su-24 if u think kh-31 is the hissy fit reason. It's far easier to secretly sell kh-31 to Iran than su-24 it's very likely given the plans and rights Iran could make it and pass it off as their own version. If you want sales and hissy fit reaction then just sell Iran tu-22m or mig-31k with kinzhal missiles. Selling Iran tu-22m and a mix of mig-31/k would open up the doors for some seriously nasty missiles of all types.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:01 pm

    There is no new build su-24. Iran wants something like a mix of su-35 and cheap jf-17 or why not futur j-31 from China.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:47 pm

    Isos wrote:There is no new build su-24. Iran wants something like a mix of su-35 and cheap jf-17 or why not futur j-31 from China.


    Hence my original comment. Nobody really wants second hand aircraft apart from poor countries and even then they will want something more multi role than a strike aircraft.

    Iran would be better off buying su-30 with rights to part manufacture certain parts or even assembly rights. Then buy few squadrons of su-34 and maybe some mig-29m/35 . Only second hand aircraft useful to Iran would be tu-22m, mig-31 and more su-25. Add some mi-35 and mi-28 and they are sorted.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:38 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Isos wrote:There is no new build su-24. Iran wants something like a mix of su-35 and cheap jf-17 or why not futur j-31 from China.


    Hence my original comment. Nobody really wants second hand aircraft apart from poor countries and even then they will want something more multi role than a strike aircraft.

    Iran would be better off buying su-30 with rights to part manufacture certain parts or even assembly rights.  Then buy few squadrons of su-34 and maybe some mig-29m/35 . Only second hand aircraft useful to Iran would be tu-22m, mig-31 and more su-25. Add some mi-35 and mi-28 and they are sorted.  

    The more usefull second hand aircraft would be mig-29smt because it is a multi role jet that Iran already operates (Mig-29) and wouldn't need to pay for training so they could get them fast with already trained pilots. And russian air force would be happy to get ride of them and get the money for mig-35.

    Tu-22M would be useless without kh-101 or kh-22. Conventional bombing would be suicide for them.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:42 pm

    Isos wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Isos wrote:There is no new build su-24. Iran wants something like a mix of su-35 and cheap jf-17 or why not futur j-31 from China.


    Hence my original comment. Nobody really wants second hand aircraft apart from poor countries and even then they will want something more multi role than a strike aircraft.

    Iran would be better off buying su-30 with rights to part manufacture certain parts or even assembly rights.  Then buy few squadrons of su-34 and maybe some mig-29m/35 . Only second hand aircraft useful to Iran would be tu-22m, mig-31 and more su-25. Add some mi-35 and mi-28 and they are sorted.  

    The more usefull second hand aircraft would be mig-29smt because it is a multi role jet that Iran already operates (Mig-29) and wouldn't need to pay for training so they could get them fast with already trained pilots. And russian air force would be happy to get ride of them and get the money for mig-35.

    Tu-22M would be useless without kh-101 or kh-22. Conventional bombing would be suicide for them.

    training would still need to be provided as its a vast improvement on what Iran operates, although basic flying skills would already be there. But its highly unlikely Russia would sell its Mig-29SMT while it still has loads of older less capable Mig-29 in service, i wouldnt be surprised if Russia replaces all of its older Mig-29 before they replace the more capable Mig-29SMT. Also if Iran is buying Mig-29SMT its likely they will buy new Mig-29M. And the Mig-29SMT wouldnt replace all of Irans needs. As i mentioned before Mig-29M and Mig-35 would useful replacement for some of its aircraft but not all.

    as mentioned before the Mig-31/K and Su-25 would actually be better why..... well for one we already know how the west likes to fight these days through proxy forces using local militia and terrorists within the country, Libya, Iraq and Syria are prime examples. If Iran was to face such warfare CAS aircraft have been proven to be more useful than most other aircraft, in Syria Su-25 have been used extensively and in the western war into Iraq more A-10 sorties were flown than other combat aircraft. Iran already uses the Su-25 so as u mentioned training wouldnt be a a big learning curve, Iran would only need a couple of squadrons and Russia still has a large amount of these, upgrade them to SM3 standard would be ideal. As for the Mig-31BSM a couple of squadrons would be ideal for Iran having such a large airspace such aircraft would be useful, high speed, and being able to be armed with powerful missile would great range would prove to be very useful, and the K version being armed with Kinzhal would be a decent deterrent and the Mig-31 with its powerful radar can also act as a mini AWACS to other aircraft. Russia has a large amount of these with some in storage this would be ideal to get rid of some in storage.

    as for the Tu-22M being suicidal in conventional bombing i would has to disagree, its uses in such warfare as Syria has proven useful. In other types of conflict using long range missiles it becomes a serious threat, If my memory serves me well Russia hasnt armed its Tu-22m with KH-101 and instead uses Tu-95ms and Tu-160 to carry them. Tu-22m can carry a multitude of missiles the Kh-101 is very expensive Russia could sell the tech for the Kh-15 to Iran it would still pose a serious threat, in fact any hypersonic oand/or long range missile would be a serious threat to any ship in the Hormuz straight. And Russia still has a large amount of these with only 60 planned to be upgraded they would still have many in storage.

    Iran is in a serious need to replace its aging aircraft. It would be ideal as i mentioned for Iran to buy Su-30 with assembly rights, and some Su-34, to replace the bulk of its air force, and smaller amounts of Mig-31, Su-25, Mi-35, Mi-28, Mig-29M/35, they could probably get away with keeping its Su-24 and upgrading them, and upgrade its small number of Su-25. And add a small number of Tu-22m and arm them all with decent missiles and suddenly Irans air force becomes deadly. Biggest problem is sanctions and money. On paper Irans air force still seems fairly large and they talk about upgrades and new aircraft but we all know that its very likely a lot of aircraft are not in decent condition or in flying condition and although some parts they have managed to produce but not every part they can. Their so-called new aircraft are just minor upgrades of older aircraft which other than light strike attack aircraft dont amount to much more. Irans air force is going to be in serious trouble within the next decade if it doesnt start to procure new aircraft. China and Russia is the only options its likely to have, and J-17 is likely the only aircraft that they would be willing to purchase from China, and i'd say they would be better buying mig-29m/35 than buying J-17. If any deal is done between Russia and Iran i personally think Su-30 and Mig-29M would be likely aircraft with both aircraft being purchased with assembly rights and possibly some parts produced in Iran to help bring cost down would be part of the deal. These two aircraft would replace the bulk of the air force, and as mentioned purchases of smaller amounts of others make up the rest. Iranian aviation producers would still be in business for they would be responsible for maintenance, parts production, and they could focus on producing their turbo prop trainers and conversion jet trainers, these could be either based on their own design, or copies of F-5 which they pretty much already done, or obtaining rights to produce Yak-130, and yak-152. And course other types of aircraft such as transports, and small helicopters, could get rights to produce Ansat. Iran could also be used as a repair and maintenance facility for Russian made aircraft in the region as well.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:37 am

    If they buy su-24 they still need to buy a dedicated interceptor and then maintain both types of aircraft.

    Well with new technology that might be the solution... the MiG-21-98 was a multi role design with new radar and new missiles and some air to ground capability.

    The Su-24 is a large aircraft... it wouldn't be that hard to upgrade... Al-31 engines, new multimode radar, more external hard points, new digital cockpit and systems... with a bit of automation you might even be able to make it a single seater with more fuel.


    Tu-22M would be useless without kh-101 or kh-22. Conventional bombing would be suicide for them.

    Iran has made a few cruise missiles already... they could certainly modify a few to hang off the bottom of a Backfire...

    But its highly unlikely Russia would sell its Mig-29SMT while it still has loads of older less capable Mig-29 in service, i wouldnt be surprised if Russia replaces all of its older Mig-29 before they replace the more capable Mig-29SMT.

    They have mentioned that the MiG-29SMT was a disappointment in Syria because it didn't have the digital datalinks that connected them to the local IADS network... which is something they could probably easily fix if they wanted to... it wouldn't be the only item they upgraded with experience in Syria.

    I suspect what they will want to do is sell Iran a licence to build MiG-29M2s... which would be better than MiG-29SMTs and cheaper than MiG-35s but could be upgraded to MiG-35 level if wanted.

    as mentioned before the Mig-31/K and Su-25 would actually be better why.

    Not sure they would want to sell MiG-31s, though they are making the engines again so maybe they might take some more out of storage and get them operational. The Su-25s are the same they probably want them for themselves... the two seat model was made in Russia but are they still able to build new aircraft?

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:17 am

    GarryB wrote:
    If they buy su-24 they still need to buy a dedicated interceptor and then maintain both types of aircraft.

    Well with new technology that might be the solution... the MiG-21-98 was a multi role design with new radar and new missiles and some air to ground capability.

    The Su-24 is a large aircraft... it wouldn't be that hard to upgrade... Al-31 engines, new multimode radar, more external hard points, new digital cockpit and systems... with a bit of automation you might even be able to make it a single seater with more fuel.


    Tu-22M would be useless without kh-101 or kh-22. Conventional bombing would be suicide for them.

    Iran has made a few cruise missiles already... they could certainly modify a few to hang off the bottom of a Backfire...

    But its highly unlikely Russia would sell its Mig-29SMT while it still has loads of older less capable Mig-29 in service, i wouldnt be surprised if Russia replaces all of its older Mig-29 before they replace the more capable Mig-29SMT.

    They have mentioned that the MiG-29SMT was a disappointment in Syria because it didn't have the digital datalinks that connected them to the local IADS network... which is something they could probably easily fix if they wanted to... it wouldn't be the only item they upgraded with experience in Syria.

    I suspect what they will want to do is sell Iran a licence to build MiG-29M2s... which would be better than MiG-29SMTs and cheaper than MiG-35s but could be upgraded to MiG-35 level if wanted.

    as mentioned before the Mig-31/K and Su-25 would actually be better why.

    Not sure they would want to sell MiG-31s, though they are making the engines again so maybe they might take some more out of storage and get them operational. The Su-25s are the same they probably want them for themselves... the two seat model was made in Russia but are they still able to build new aircraft?



    mig-29SMT is still a better plane than the current older mig-29 in Russian service so as i said its likely they will get rid of them before the SMT. I agree Iran woulod be better getting rights for mig-29M and Su-30.

    As for the Mig-31 as i said Russia has quite a large number of these in storage and although they may use some for parts and bring a few back into service they do still plan long term to replace and i sure they wont use them all in storage so i guess it wouldnt hurt selling some to Iran it would clear a few out of storage and Russia would also benefit from parts, maintenance, and missiles for the aircraft. And on the flip side Iran gets a decent aircraft.

    As for the Su-24 yes you could upgrade it to be semi multi role, but would the cost be worth it, i remember sometime ago we talked about upgrading older aircraft and was it worth it. A su-24 upgraded to the standard you suggested you might be getting closer to mig-29m or Su-30 territory in cost, and even if it cost you more you would be getting a new aircraft that was purpose build for multi role. On the Su-25 i remember reading that Russia was the only country still producing armoured fixed wing and it mentioned Su-34 and Su-25 and both were still in production but with such a large number they have i think they have never needed to build anymore, and a planned newer version in the long distant future we probably will never see anymore produced.
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:05 am

    mig-29SMT is still a better plane than the current older mig-29 in Russian service so as i said its likely they will get rid of them before the SMT. I agree Iran woulod be better getting rights for mig-29M and Su-30.

    True, but the best feature of the MiG-29SMT is not its modernised electronics or improved weapon range, it is the reduced costs of operation and maintenance...

    The MiG-29M2 should also be much cheaper to operate but it is based on a new more modern airframe, and the brand new state of the art components that make the MiG-35 better can be fitted easily because it uses the same airframe.

    I have said before and will say it again... I would put the MiG-29M2 into production and make 150-200 of them, but I would also buy 50 MiG-35s and use them operationally... I would give it a time period of perhaps 3-5 years and then get the operators... pilots and crew to decide which features of the MiG-35 are worth the cost and upgrade the 150-200 MiG-29M2s with those features... after five years of course MiG will have come up with new systems and new weapons that of course being new will cost more but be largely unproven... I would probably buy 25 sets for half my MiG-35s and use them for a bit and then decide whether to upgrade all the MiG-35s or all the MiGs, or none.

    The MiG-29M2 is a bit like an F-16... it is a useful cheap fighter that can perform a range of roles adequately... the MiG-35 is like an unstealthy F-35... that will be much cheaper to buy and to operate and able to carry a much broader payload.

    As for the Mig-31 as i said Russia has quite a large number of these in storage and although they may use some for parts and bring a few back into service they do still plan long term to replace and i sure they wont use them all in storage so i guess it wouldnt hurt selling some to Iran it would clear a few out of storage and Russia would also benefit from parts, maintenance, and missiles for the aircraft. And on the flip side Iran gets a decent aircraft.

    From a Russian perspective it is useful to have aircraft in storage available if needed. If Iran wants to buy some they will likely need new engines and a complete overhaul and upgrade because these are mostly from the cold war optimised for Soviet operations within a Soviet air defence system.

    What weapons Iran wants to buy from Russia is another matter... they might want the R-33 or they might want the R-37, or they might want to make their own missile. Of course they might want to make a new missile with Russia as a joint venture... we keep hearing about the KS-172 with India but never see any actual progress... Perhaps Iran might kick it in to reality and load up MiG-31s and F-14s with it...

    WIth the MiGs engines back in production perhaps an engine upgrade for the F-14s to make their own sort of F-14D model?

    As for the Su-24 yes you could upgrade it to be semi multi role, but would the cost be worth it, i remember sometime ago we talked about upgrading older aircraft and was it worth it.

    It really depends on the condition of the aircraft... a swing wing aircraft is tricky... they had to build an entirely new Titanium forge to allow them to make the enormous titanium box structure the Blackjack needs for its swing wing design... perhaps they could do the same for the Fencer and make it lighter and stronger... able to carry more payload?

    Who knows... I suspect the older Fencers will be scrapped... they are getting useful and good use in Syria... and any problems in Afghanistan they could use them there too or in the former soviet republic 'stans if that is ever needed... but the Backfire could probably do the job and do it better. And now of course the Su-34 has matured and can also do the job too.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:44 am

    I've always been a fan of the mig-29m2 and Ur right but them and u can pick and choose what bits u want from the mig-35 after using a handful for sometime or as u say u don't bother if nothing is really good. And Iran could likely attach its own upgrades or pods etc.

    As for weapons yes completely different ball game as I mentioned earlier and transferring of tech is easier.

    I always liked the USA aardvark F-111. Great aircraft and ibet a few USA officers miss them a nice mini bomber say one up close a few months ago. I suppose it depends what budget u have su-24 maybe be cheaper but if u can afford the backfire then it be better choice and yes su-34 is a great aircraft and I am sure more upgrades will come.

    I remember Iran was interested in mig-31 at one point most likely due to the size of the airspace it has and needing a fast long range aircraft that has a powerful radar and can carry deadly long range missiles. It's not an aircraft for every air force and it's fairly expensive to run. And yes Russia does find them useful but not all are being used with many in storage and in the next decade they are looking to bring in a newer replacement so they could still sell 2-3 squadrons worth to Iran and still have aircraft in storage for spares etc. And yes they would need overhaul and upgrades etc but still be cheaper than buying new if they still produced and Iran is pretty limited to who it cannot aircraft from

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