Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4588
    Points : 4703
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:42 pm

    Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

    No technology exists, including the vaunted VLBM acoustic nets that can detect the submarine.
    No EM radiation can scan through the electrolytic sea water and the submarine would have to be making absurd amounts
    of noise to be detect by long range acoustic nets since the background noise in the oceans exceeds the noise generated
    by modern submarines that are not pushing their upper underwater speed (which results in nonlinear increase in screw
    noise and low frequency sound emissions from hull vibrations).

    The smug, ignorant attitude you present is the same as that of your idiot leaders. Who, just like all the other
    invaders of Russia, don't have the mental capacity to evaluate their chances and ride the masturabatory wave
    of hubris.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4588
    Points : 4703
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:47 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

    yes, but ONLY  if  Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad



    The clowns in charge of Exceptonalistan probably think they have some superheroes working for their crusader armed forces.
    They are that demented and infantile.

    I would not take Putin's statements too far. He is not going to show all of Russia's cards to the western "partners" (genocidal
    psychopaths). He is just highlighting that well known Russian missiles are already enough to give Washington a real headache
    even if they base IRBMs in Ukraine and Georgia.

    But I suggest to Putin that Russia adopt a pre-emptive strike policy for NATO missile deployments in Ukraine and Georgia.
    There is no need for NATO to place missiles there for "self defense" and these are pure aggressive moves against Russia.
    Let's see how far NATO takes it.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1398
    Points : 1392
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  LMFS on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:09 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

    No technology exists, including the vaunted VLBM acoustic nets that can detect the submarine.
    No EM radiation can scan through the electrolytic sea water and the submarine would have to be making absurd amounts
    of noise to be detect by long range acoustic nets since the background noise in the oceans exceeds the noise generated
    by modern submarines that are not pushing their upper underwater speed (which results in nonlinear increase in screw
    noise and low frequency sound emissions from hull vibrations).

    The smug, ignorant attitude you present is the same as that of your idiot leaders.   Who, just like all the other
    invaders of Russia, don't have the mental capacity to evaluate their chances and ride the masturabatory wave
    of hubris.
    Martianov on the subject:

    Well, what can I say: 3.14 x 1000^2=3.14 million square kilometers of potential search area for a single submarine carrying Zircons. For comparison, 3+ million square kilometers is the area of India. Good luck coming up with the location probability density mapping for this one.


    Smoothie , Putin says Submarine and Ships can be in international waters
    and strike US main land target , is this possible as they might get
    hunted down submarine or ships

    ASW is very important, and expensive, but it is obvious that US coasts are protected by a number of ASW systems in which:

    1. Patrol Aviation (P-3 Orion, P-8 Poseidon) ;
    2. US Navy's SSNs;
    3. Sea-bottom acoustic (and non-acoustic) sensors

    are main means to conduct search, detection and annihilation of any submersed threats to US coasts. Yes, subs can patrol in international (and not always, wink, wink) waters within ranges of their weapons. The longer the range of the weapon, the larger is the territory (A=Enemy's Weapon Range X Rough Length of the Coast) which needs to be patrolled and searched. If to very roughly calculate the Area of possible Zircon's salvo, giving a base of US East Coast (from Maine to Florida's tip) as 2,500 kilometers, we are talking about 1,000 X 2,500 = 2.5 million square kilometers area which needs to be searched against Zircon-carrying platform. You know what? Let me make a separate post about it.

    http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2019/02/four-three-two-one-experts.html

    So yes, good luck searching for subs in an area like that Laughing

    dino00
    dino00

    Posts : 968
    Points : 1009
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 31
    Location : portugal

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  dino00 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:59 pm

    The pentagon is so close to the shore...how juicy.

    I think Russia is going all-in to bankrupt the evil Empire. The cost of defense systems against Avangard, Zirkon, Poseidon Will be insane, and probably Will nott work.
    How will the US navy defend the use of aircraft carriers with so many systems tha can send them to the botton of the ocean? And thy dont have defense...
    ...Zirkon, khinzals, kh-32, Shvkal, Poseidon, will be hard to choose.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4588
    Points : 4703
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

    dino00 wrote:The pentagon is so close to the shore...how juicy.

    I think Russia is going all-in to bankrupt the evil Empire. The cost of defense systems against Avangard, Zirkon, Poseidon Will be insane, and probably Will nott work.
    How will the US navy defend the use of aircraft carriers with so many systems tha can send them to the botton of the ocean? And thy dont have defense...
    ...Zirkon, khinzals, kh-32, Shvkal, Poseidon, will be hard to choose.

    That is indeed quite juicy. NATO likes to stroke itself how it bankrupted the USSR with the arms race (this is, of course, BS since command
    economies cannot be bankrupted unless every worker is forced to engage in activity that leaves vital sectors of the economy non-functional
    and for sure only a smaller percentage of people in the USSR were working in military jobs). But this time around Russia has the potential
    to bankrupt the corrupt NATO. Any system that NATO will deploy will be overpriced beyond belief. The current military prices in the USA
    and its NATO pals bear no relation to the utility of the products and are pure pork barrel rot. By forcing an asymmetric response, Russia
    is taking this rot and taking taking it to the second power. This comes at a time when NATO's GDP is stagnating and contracting and the
    middle class is shrinking. But hey, they can always borrow and print the money. LOL.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2195
    Points : 2193
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  Hole on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:15 pm

    What really "bankrupted" Russia (SU) were the high costs of the social programs (education, health care and so on) + military expenditure. But the military costs were so high not because of the strategic weapons systems but the concentional forces. They were so large to beat NATO + China at the same time and to occupy the whole of western europe. This sort of warfare is no longer neccessary. If attacked, Russia will strike back with his formidable weapons and destroy a lot of western infastructure = destroy the capability to wage a large war. After that most western states would be in turmoil. No need to occupy them, they would beg for peace (even the poles).
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4588
    Points : 4703
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:10 pm

    Hole wrote:What really "bankrupted" Russia (SU) were the high costs of the social programs (education, health care and so on) + military expenditure. But the military costs were so high not because of the strategic weapons systems but the concentional forces. They were so large to beat NATO + China at the same time and to occupy the whole of western europe. This sort of warfare is no longer neccessary. If attacked, Russia will strike back with his formidable weapons and destroy a lot of western infastructure = destroy the capability to wage a large war. After that most western states would be in turmoil. No need to occupy them, they would beg for peace (even the poles).

    There was no real budget in the USSR. This is a common misconception in the west. There were also no real prices for goods and services.
    Command economies work by directive not by market forces. This is why capitalist economies adopt command economy modes of operation
    during war time since there is no time to deal with market speculation and inefficiency. There is such a thing as market inefficiency. Markets
    are every resistant to expensive product introduction (why we are still driving internal combustion engines for more than 100 years).

    The USSR was brought down by the public's perceived loss of freedom and the greed of the Party and management structures to live it
    up capitalist style. Gorbie introduced a NEP style of reform where "initiative" was to be rewarded to stimulate the economy. This had the
    opposite effect since a new class of crooks developed that wanted more and more. His prohibition style alcohol control program was also
    a boon for black marketeers just like it was in the USA. Stagnation in the USSR really started from the mid 1970s and terminated with the
    dissolution of the USSR. Gorbie was the one who did the country in. But he was capitalizing on a wave of discontent. Command economics
    is a superior system for computers. For humans, who have emotions and needs (greed, envy, hate, etc.), a different type of economy is
    needed to accommodate psychological constraints. This is something that none of the socialist theoreticians really understood.
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4916
    Points : 4948
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:59 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Or you could just add a 0 to 320, to give you 3200, and then subtract 320 from that to give you 2880.

    c'mon GB  is THE humanist ,no need for math here lol1 lol1 lol1




    PapaDragon wrote: If memory serves me Aquaman is on very good terms with Russian Navy Cool

    Thats why he is the only hope now thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup even Samuel L. Jackson wont help this time. bounce bounce bounce
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4916
    Points : 4948
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:44 am

    GarryB wrote:
    pr "heavy" ships......Zircon in UKSK-M
    MKR's got................."lightweight". Zircon in UKSK?

    Or maybe there are three classes... frigates and corvettes have UKSK, some new boats don't have integral launchers and rely on shipping crate mounted missiles, and ships new build or upgraded bigger than Frigate have UKSK-M?

    The new smaller Zircon is for the small ships with no UKSK launcher that use shipping crates for such missiles... or the UKSK-M is to allow standard Zircons to be used which means new Zircon can fit all existing UKSK launchers fitted to smaller ships and subs, while the big new zircon will need to wait for bigger vessels to be launched/upgraded.

    ok very logical but Im not sure why "lightweight" Zircon cannot be used both with UKSK (MRKs) and with shipping containers ( Like 2210 with 2x4Zircons)? IMHO something th at h as range 1000km+ and speed 9Ma is unlikely lightweight


    BTW with range 1000km+ no way small ship can control them so either netcenric control or supa intelligent missile with star navigation + multi-spectral homing?



    GB wrote: In which case a bigger UKSK-M might allow expanded and enlarged types of all missiles currently in development for new ships larger than Frigate... including S-500.

    Kalibr-M , which In my IMHO is great tool but for land power projection vide Syria , not relly good for ASh application/
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4916
    Points : 4948
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:47 am

    GarryB wrote:Hell, they could take a leaf out of Chinas book and build an artificial island there....  Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    there's cheaper, more effective  solution - sea-bed IRBMs ...


    kvs wrote:
    The clowns in charge of Exceptonalistan probably think they have some superheroes working for their crusader armed forces.
    They are that demented and infantile.

    dont say Marvel heroes dont exist! you're gonna hurt US admirals' inner child respekt respekt respekt


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4916
    Points : 4948
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:52 am

    @Hole -

    If you meant trolling of Fashington elites, not really military application then greed. Militarily is much more efficient to use seabed missiles. Especially when you constantly shuffle their locations. lol1 lol1 lol1





    Arrow wrote: The US will not let Russian ships be located 400 km from Washington" .

    wot what about freedom of navigation so much praised by US admirals ?  lol1  lol1  lol1


    Arrow wrote: It is impossible. Such a high speed at such a low altitude. Cirkon develops its 9 M at a height of about 40 km

    dont be such sooo negative , Kinzhal or DF-41 meet US carriers  with even higher speed.  russia russia russia
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1954
    Points : 1944
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  hoom on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:16 am

    there's cheaper, more effective solution - sea-bed IRBMs ...
    There is a treaty banning that which US hasn't yet withdrawn from.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2195
    Points : 2193
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  Hole on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:30 am

    And in international waters any dumb-ass could salvage the missiles.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 21521
    Points : 22071
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:47 pm

    The US will not let Russian ships be located 400 km from Washington" . In the event of war, this ship will not survive for several minutes.

    Unless the US wants to start a war there is not a lot they could do about a Russian ship operating off their coastline in international waters.

    Such weapon types could be launched fairly quickly and easily if needed...

    Even at the height of the Soviet fleet I can't think of a case that a Soviet warship got within 400km of Washington.
    Maybe some subs did, maybe.

    The Soviet fleet never had land attack missiles able to carry conventional warheads...

    The submarine will be detected quickly.

    They reportedly operated Akulas in US waters for long periods without being detected...

    And detection is not the issue... what are they going to do? Start WWIII because a Russian sub is operating in international waters off the US coast?


    IMHO waste of resources. But why to send people of suicidal l mission? not better drones, small, stealthy , long duration with 8 UKSK -M patrolling US coast

    A suicidal mission for sure, but like a canary down a mine... if the US attacks your ship it suggests an attack is either underway or about to start... so it is worth it... you could modify an old fishing boat with 2-3 crew and a half dozen missiles with target coordinates already punched in... some radio comms the get them the launch signal and some life vests to jump into the sea after they push the launch buttons.

    Give them full internet access and modest daily chores list and it might be a pretty good gig.... international waters so occasionally get the rifle and the RPG out for a bit of target practise to while away the time and just sit 24/7 listening for an order to launch... play the new Metro game while you wait for the order to launch...

    In fact you could pack the launch system so that it detaches and sinks to the bottom if the ship is attacked and launches the missiles from the bottom of the sea automatically so even if you sink the boat the missiles still get launched...

    But Garry you did well the first calcul. You just typed mach 9 instead of mach 1.

    Yeah... I was going to change that but as I put my working out I thought it was obvious I was talking about estimating the speed of sound rather than the speed of Mach 9.... not really a big deal IMHO.

    If it were so simple, it would be a much better idea to send 955 to the near coast of the USA or at least 1000 km away. Bulava is much faster to Cirkon.

    SSBNs will be hidden well away from the USA and will deliver weapons to US cities... not command centres.

    ok very logical but Im not sure why "lightweight" Zircon cannot be used both with UKSK (MRKs) and with shipping containers ( Like 2210 with 2x4Zircons)? IMHO something th at h as range 1000km+ and speed 9Ma is unlikely lightweight

    Don't be misled by the range... because of its high flight speed simply operating for a period of time gives long range... a propeller might accelerate a missile to  300km/h, so a fuel supply that will allow the missile to fly for ten hours will give it a range of 3,000km.

    That exact same fuel supply might only last for 3 hours in a jet engine but the flight speed might be three times faster at 900km/h, so it has a range of 2,700km but gets there faster... now the ramjet version of the missile might only have enough fuel for 1 hours flight, but it flys at three times faster speed... mach 2.8 or about 3,000km per hour... and flying for an hour... you get 3,000km range... the difference is not in size or in weight but in time of flight because of the different performances from the engines... now we have Zircon which has a scramjet engine and there are few reasons a scramjet engine needs to be bigger than a ramjet engine... but this scramjet engine runs at more than three times faster than the ramjet... mach 9, or 2880m/s... which is... about 10 thousand kms per hour... and being a type of ramjet it generates more energy so it only runs for one sixth of an hour... ten minutes on the fuel the ramjet could use for one hour... but because it is moving so damn fast in ten minutes it is still going to cover a hell of a lot of distance...  ten minutes is 600 seconds and this missile covers just under 3km every second... so 600 times three is 1,800km... well about 1,700km if you allow for the fact that it is 2.88km/s and not 3km/s...

    BTW with range 1000km+ no way small ship can control them so either netcenric control or supa intelligent missile with star navigation + multi-spectral homing?

    Any aircraft launching them is unlikely to see the target either... I rather suspect target coordinates with a satellite photo of the target will be enough for inertial guidance and imaging terminal homing...

    Kalibr-M , which In my IMHO is great tool but for land power projection vide Syria , not relly good for ASh application/

    A bigger launch tube means all the big missiles that only fit one of in the standard UKSK will now be loose in the UKSK-M but not loose enough to fit more than one... so if you just keep using them in UKSK-M launchers you are not using them efficiently... you are not using their full capacity.

    The old Calibre missiles can be expanded from 2,500km range land attack cruise missiles to 4,500km range land attack cruise missiles... and the anti ship sub sonic and anti ship supersonic and anti submarine weapons can be enlarged with extra range or warhead performance too...

    Probably add all sorts of drones and other weapon types too...

    there's cheaper, more effective  solution - sea-bed IRBMs ...

    You don't get exclusive fishing rights and mineral rights around a sea bed IRBM site...

    Put in time shares and sell them to North Koreans and Cubans....

    And in international waters any dumb-ass could salvage the missiles.

    Put a nice big sign in several languages to say this weapon is booby trapped and if anyone moves it there will be a 5 million degree temperature increase in this general area for a few minutes... but you wont notice a thing...
    avatar
    Arrow

    Posts : 416
    Points : 416
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  Arrow on Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:08 pm

    Would it be possible for Cirkon to fly 9M at a low altitude? The Russians say they have materials that can withstand 3000 degrees but a dense atmosphere will significantly reduce the range of the missile.
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4916
    Points : 4948
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:41 pm

    hoom wrote:
    there's cheaper, more effective  solution - sea-bed IRBMs ...
    There is a treaty banning that which US hasn't yet withdrawn from.

    seriously? Russia already has this weapons. Project Skiff.




    Hole wrote:And in international waters any dumb-ass could salvage the missiles.

    same way SSBNs right?
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2195
    Points : 2193
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  Hole on Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:45 pm

    to Gunship: SSBN´s are manned. You just can´t raise them from the seabed. If they didn´t sink before. Very Happy

    to GarryB: I doubt that such a sign would deter this geniuses in Washington from trying it. Shocked

    to Arrow: the whole point of the development of hypersonic weapons is to fly shocking fast at low heights. The speed alone isn´t the big thing about them. Ballistic missiles exist for decades, but for most of the way they fly very high. Until now low-flying cruise (anti-ship) missiles were limited to Mach 2,5 or 3 or sometimes 4 for a few hundred kilometres. The hypersonic missiles are the cure for that problem.

    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4916
    Points : 4948
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The submarine will be detected quickly.

    They reportedly operated Akulas in US waters for long periods without being detected...


    https://freebeacon.com/national-security/silent-running/
    A Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine armed with long-range cruise missiles operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and its travel in strategic U.S. waters was only confirmed after it left the region, the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

    russia russia russia




    GB wrote:
    you could modify an old fishing boat with 2-3 crew and a half dozen missiles with target coordinates already punched in... some radio comms the get them the launch signal and some life vests to jump into the sea after they push the launch buttons.

    {}

    In fact you could pack the launch system so that it detaches and sinks to the bottom if the ship is attacked and launches the missiles from the bottom of the sea automatically so even if you sink the boat the missiles still get launched...


    well remove those 2-3 crew and you got... drone lol1 lol1 lol1





    GB wrote:
    despicable me wrote: ]ok very logical but Im not sure why "lightweight" Zircon cannot be used both with UKSK (MRKs) and with shipping containers ( Like 2210 with 2x4Zircons)? IMHO something th at h as range 1000km+ and speed 9Ma is unlikely lightweight

    Don't be misled by the range... because of its high flight speed simply operating for a period of time gives long range... a propeller might accelerate a missile to  300km/h, so a fuel supply that will allow the missile to fly for ten hours will give it a range of 3,000km.


    Are we talking bout Zircon? well, regardless on how it is gonna to work - scramjet marching engine, "tossing by aircraft + booster stage" , the range limits kinetic energy - aerodynamic heating.


    In case of ship based Zircon, kinetic energy delivered is function of fuel volume it carries. You cannot have long range, heavy warhead, , high speed and and tiny missile.

    At least not in my understanding of physics.



    GB wrote:
    BTW with range 1000km+ no way small ship can control them so either netcenric control or supa intelligent missile with star navigation + multi-spectral homing?

    Any aircraft launching them is unlikely to see the target either... I rather suspect target coordinates with a satellite photo of the target will be enough for inertial guidance and imaging terminal homing...

    the funny thing is here - 1,300kms flying 3km/s you need... 7,5 mins to meet US admiral on his fraternal-bed-of-honor command post





    GB wrote:
    Kalibr-M , which In my IMHO is great tool but for land power projection vide Syria , not really good for ASh application/

    A bigger launch tube means all the big missiles that only fit one of in the standard UKSK will now be loose in the UKSK-M but not loose enough to fit more than one... so if you just keep using them in UKSK-M launchers you are not using them efficiently... you are not using their full capacity.

    do you suggest there will be 2 coexisting UKSKs on one ship like 22350? Suspect Suspect Suspect



    GB wrote:
    there's cheaper, more effective  solution - sea-bed IRBMs ...

    You don't get exclusive fishing rights and mineral rights around a sea bed IRBM site...
    .

    would you suggest anybody can just take down US unmanned shuttle, navigation sat or B-21 in unmanned mode?
    First things first Skif does exist. For reason I guess.


    IMHO most efficient way is not to just drop 'n' forget but constantly pick up, move, drop missile containers. Imagine logistic company moving containers round country Smile so US never knows where they actually are Of course combiners are in 24/7 discrete surveillance by your drones.



    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4916
    Points : 4948
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:29 pm

    Hole wrote:to Gunship: SSBN´s are manned. You just can´t raise them from the seabed. If they didn´t sink before. Very Happy
    B-21, X-37 are unmanned, would you suggest anybody can just take them? ,
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2195
    Points : 2193
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  Hole on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:57 pm

    If they crash into international waters or your country: Yes. Remember the drone that was hacked in Iran? They kept it and nobody could do anything about it.

    Solution: put Skiff on the seabed around arctic islands of Russia: Novaja Semlja, Wrangel and so on.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13447
    Points : 13936
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:06 pm

    3M-22 Zircon first TV image (can't say now correct or not)

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 D0LD2ZuWsAAlY0c

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 D0LD2ZsXgAAgDLv

    https://twitter.com/DnKornev/status/1099656612200005632
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 4588
    Points : 4703
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  kvs on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:27 pm

    Now that we have Zircon, how will Almaz look like...

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 5100
    Points : 5253
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:35 pm

    George1 wrote:3M-22 Zircon first TV image (can't say now correct or not)

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 D0LD2ZuWsAAlY0c

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 D0LD2ZsXgAAgDLv

    https://twitter.com/DnKornev/status/1099656612200005632

    That's CGI.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1954
    Points : 1944
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  hoom on Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:18 am

    *Bad CGI.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1398
    Points : 1392
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  LMFS on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:50 am

    hoom wrote:*Bad CGI.
    ... of a X-51 Very Happy

    Sponsored content

    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile - Page 10 Empty Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:56 pm