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    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

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    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:29 pm

    Well no surprise. It's a new tech. It is hard to give the size they want as the size of the missile is a parameter for its speed, engines are first generation so they can't make them that small.

    Reducing the missile will probably reduce the range. I would upgrade udaloys with this one first as they already plan to upgrad them. And keep uksk with oniks untill a better smaller version fits inside.

    It took lot of years to make a small brahmos NG that has same caracteristics as brahmos but 2 times smaller. It will probably be the same with zirkon. During this time udaloy should carry the zirkon.

    Depends on its size, 650mm tubes may also launch it from the yasen.

    With mig-31 carrying kinzhal, udaloys carrying Zirkon, and all the other uksk ships carrying kalibr/oniks it more than enough to keep US away for the next 10-15 years.

    I also doubt they would buy as many zirkon as they have uksk cells.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:30 pm

    Izvestia is a piece of s...

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    Post  dino00 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:04 pm

    Hole wrote:Izvestia is a piece of s...


    Disagree, i think they got better Over time. For me they are credible.
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:10 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Mach 9 and the range of 1000km fired from a ship, then an air launched model (like Kinzhal is to Iskander-M) would have greater speed and range. We saw Iskander-M fired from a ground launcher attain Mach 8 speed, and 500km range, but the air-launched version (Kinzhal) attain Mach 10 speed and 2000km range, we could see similar increase in characteristics.
    It's not an Iskander. Please stop with this shite, all of you.

    Everywhere it's been ever mentioned the Zirkon is a cruise missile. One which surpassed it's designed speed last test.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:51 pm

    Do we know the cruise altitude of the zirkon ?
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:02 am

    flamming_python wrote:It's not an Iskander. Please stop with this shite, all of you.
    Well, the same way Brahmos was modified for air launch, Zirkon could be modified the same way, it makes military sense so why not? Even a baby-zircon has been mentioned, it would even help further to get a version light enough to be carried by a heavy fighter. Alternatively, a plane like Tu-22 could carry many of the full sized missiles for a much better range and speed than Kh-32. Why to develop additional missiles?
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:38 am

    Wow, apparently the missile will be capable of developing high speeds at low altitudes. Deployment estimated in 1-3 years:

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/https/iz.ru/848109/2019-02-20/voennyi-ekspert-nazval-sroki-postupleniia-rakety-tcirkon-v-voiska
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:29 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    This makes so sense

    All ships with UKSK launchers can use same missiles

    If it doesn't fit on Karakurts or Buyans it doesn't fit on anything else with UKSK, corvettes and frigates including



    pr "heavy" ships......Zircon in UKSK-M
    MKR's got................."lightweight". Zircon in UKSK?
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    Post  Austin on Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:46 am

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    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:39 am

    The Defense Ministry will receive a miniature version of the Zircon hypersonic rocket. First of all, it should be equipped with small rocket ships (MRK) of the Karakurt and Buyan-M projects. Also, the rocket will be adapted for launches from a special container

    Your logic makes sense... I agree....

    All ships with UKSK launchers can use same missiles

    If it doesn't fit on Karakurts or Buyans it doesn't fit on anything else with UKSK, corvettes and frigates including

    No... what he is saying is that some Russian ships that can carry these missiles don't have UKSK launchers.... they have space on the deck for a shipping crate for these sorts of missiles and it is these shipping crates that can't carry the Zircon missiles, so a new Zircon design is being developed for use in the shipping crate model design.

    A bit like the Brahmos fits on an Su-30MKI but they can only carry one so they made a smaller faster lighter Brahmos-NG model that can be carried under the wings of most fighters like the MiG-29 and even Mirage 2000 etc etc... and as an added bonus can also be carried by the Su-30MKI but it can carry two under each wing and another missile under the centreline... so it can carry 5 missiles of the new smaller type or one of the original.

    The newer type is also faster but I believe has a shorter range and smaller warhead... which is fine...

    If this is the case regarding the Zircon, that would mean the new missile could be carried on smaller fighters and large fighters could carry more missiles at one time... but the shipping containers would be ideal to attach to trains or put on trucks... you could make thousands of them and hide them in open sight... is it cargo or is it a deadly hypersonic missile able to target ground and sea targets...

    Do we know the cruise altitude of the zirkon ?

    Efficiently at a quite high altitude I suspect... that would also improve its safety as few fighters can engage targets at 30km or above altitudes... so it really only has to worry about major SAMs.

    Wow, apparently the missile will be capable of developing high speeds at low altitudes. Deployment estimated in 1-3 years:

    That would be fantastic... very few things operate at high speed at low altitude because of the thickness of the atmosphere... a Sidewinder missile might achieve 25km range and mach 2.5 speed at medium and high altitude launches, but at low altitude it will be much shorter range and much slower... in a monsoon its effective range for target detection might be 2km...

    pr "heavy" ships......Zircon in UKSK-M
    MKR's got................."lightweight". Zircon in UKSK?

    Or maybe there are three classes... frigates and corvettes have UKSK, some new boats don't have integral launchers and rely on shipping crate mounted missiles, and ships new build or upgraded bigger than Frigate have UKSK-M?

    The new smaller Zircon is for the small ships with no UKSK launcher that use shipping crates for such missiles... or the UKSK-M is to allow standard Zircons to be used which means new Zircon can fit all existing UKSK launchers fitted to smaller ships and subs, while the big new zircon will need to wait for bigger vessels to be launched/upgraded.

    Personally I think Dino is right and the new small Zircon is for the shipping crate mounted UKSK substitute setups...

    In which case a bigger UKSK-M might allow expanded and enlarged types of all missiles currently in development for new ships larger than Frigate... including S-500.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:52 am

    Well... a Russian vessel 400km from Washington launches a mach 9 missile... assuming mach 9 = about 320m/s, that means we have that missile covering 9 x 320m every second... which is works out at about 2.88km/s, so 400km would take roughly 140 seconds, which is about 2 and a half minutes... not very long at all...

    It could be on a shipping crate on a transport ship, a submarine, a corvette, or a cruiser...

    Hell, they could take a leaf out of Chinas book and build an artificial island there.... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Post  Isos on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:56 am

    GarryB wrote:Well... a Russian vessel 400km from Washington launches a mach 9 missile... assuming mach 9 = about 320m/s, that means we have that missile covering 9 x 320m every second... which is works out at about 2.88km/s, so 400km would take roughly 140 seconds, which is about 2 and a half minutes...  not very long at all...

    It could be on a shipping crate on a transport ship, a submarine, a corvette, or a cruiser...

    Hell, they could take a leaf out of Chinas book and build an artificial island there....  Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    Mach 1 is 320m/s. Mach 9 is 3090 m/s
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:07 am

    Something wrong with my calculator then... I was taking 320m/s as mach one, so 320 x 9 = 2880m/s according to my computer calculator...

    Lets do it manually... 320 + 320 = 640.

    640 + 640 + 640 + 640 + 320 = 1280 + 1280 +320 = 2560 + 320 = 2880.

    Fairly straight forward if you are into computers and are familiar with Binary... take the zero off and treat it like 32... 32 times 8 is 256... put the zero back on and add 320 and you get 2880m/s...

    10 times the speed of sound at 320m/s would be 3200m/s or 3.2km/s... deduct 320m/s and you get 2880m/s... so my numbers seem to add up.

    Either way covering the 400km EEZ to Washington is going to be less than 3 minutes... you could have an obvious missile carrier there 24/7 and a few less obvious also there in case that one is preemptively attacked... which in itself would be justification for the other clandestine platforms to immediately attack... so either way you get your shot at the Washington cronies.

    Imagine... right now... start a stopwatch... wherever you are... what can you do in 2 and a half minutes?

    Not very much... It would be very restrictive to have to remain within 2 minutes and 30 seconds from a security bunker... and when Gzur II is ready and moves even faster... at mach 12-14... well then... perhaps the US is going to have to tone down the attitude?
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    Post  Arrow on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:14 am

    ell... a Russian vessel 400km from Washington wrote:

    The US will not let Russian ships be located 400 km from Washington" . In the event of war, this ship will not survive for several minutes.

    at would be fantastic... very few things operate at high speed at low altitude because of the thickness of the atmosphere wrote:

    It is impossible. Such a high speed at such a low altitude. Cirkon develops its 9 M at a height of about 40 km
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    Post  hoom on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:27 am

    a Russian vessel 400km from Washington launches a mach 9 missile
    Even at the height of the Soviet fleet I can't think of a case that a Soviet warship got within 400km of Washington.
    Maybe some subs did, maybe.
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    Post  Arrow on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:30 am

    The submarine will be detected quickly.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:47 am

    This are international waters. You can sail there anytime you want.

    How would the morons at the Potomac attack the ship? With a Harpoon?

    Even if, the ship only has to survive a few minutes. The Zirkons will be launched and half a minute later all important places in Washington will be destroyed. This is worth even a ship like PtG.

    By the way, this deck launcher for Zirkon could be used to modernise this ones:

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    Post  dino00 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:57 am

    Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

    Yeah yasen-m Will be detected easy. lol1
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:05 pm

    Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

    yes, but ONLY  if  Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad





    Hole wrote:This are international waters. You can sail there anytime you want.

    How would the morons at the Potomac attack the ship? With a Harpoon?

    Even if, the ship only has to survive a few minutes. The Zirkons will be launched and half a minute later all important places in Washington will be destroyed. This is worth even a ship like PtG.

    By the way, this deck launcher for Zirkon could be used to modernise this ones:

    IMHO waste of resources. But why to send people of suicidal l mission? not better drones, small, stealthy , long duration with 8 UKSK -M patrolling US coast lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  flamming_python on Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:Something wrong with my calculator then... I was taking 320m/s as mach one, so 320 x 9 = 2880m/s according to my computer calculator...

    Lets do it manually... 320 + 320 = 640.

    640 + 640 + 640 + 640 + 320 = 1280 + 1280 +320 = 2560 + 320 = 2880.

    Fairly straight forward if you are into computers and are familiar with Binary... take the zero off and treat it like 32... 32 times 8 is 256... put the zero back on and add 320 and you get 2880m/s...

    Or you could just add a 0 to 320, to give you 3200, and then subtract 320 from that to give you 2880.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:31 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Something wrong with my calculator then... I was taking 320m/s as mach one, so 320 x 9 = 2880m/s according to my computer calculator...

    Lets do it manually... 320 + 320 = 640.

    640 + 640 + 640 + 640 + 320 = 1280 + 1280 +320 = 2560 + 320 = 2880.

    Fairly straight forward if you are into computers and are familiar with Binary... take the zero off and treat it like 32... 32 times 8 is 256... put the zero back on and add 320 and you get 2880m/s...

    Or you could just add a 0 to 320, to give you 3200, and then subtract 320 from that to give you 2880.

    Or write "mach 9" in google search and it gives you the conversion automatically Very Happy


    But Garry you did well the first calcul. You just typed mach 9 instead of mach 1.
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    Post  Arrow on Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:41 pm

    If it were so simple, it would be a much better idea to send 955 to the near coast of the USA or at least 1000 km away. Bulava is much faster to Cirkon.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:03 pm

    Arrow wrote:If it were so simple, it would be a much better idea to send 955 to the near coast of the USA or at least 1000 km away. Bulava is much faster to Cirkon.

    Do you know what is a ballistic trajectory ?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:35 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

    yes, but ONLY if Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad


    If memory serves me Aquaman is on very good terms with Russian Navy Cool
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    Post  Hole on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:22 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Arrow wrote:The submarine will be detected quickly.

    yes, but ONLY  if  Aquaman joins USN. Otherwise US is fucked baaad





    Hole wrote:This are international waters. You can sail there anytime you want.

    How would the morons at the Potomac attack the ship? With a Harpoon?

    Even if, the ship only has to survive a few minutes. The Zirkons will be launched and half a minute later all important places in Washington will be destroyed. This is worth even a ship like PtG.

    By the way, this deck launcher for Zirkon could be used to modernise this ones:

    IMHO waste of resources.  But why to send people of suicidal l mission? not better drones, small, stealthy , long duration with 8  UKSK -M patrolling US coast lol1 lol1 lol1

    I wrote IF it would be destroyed. And it would be worth it. The top echelon of the command and control system of your enemy destroyed for a single ship… Cool

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