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    3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

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    Enera

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    Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  Enera on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:41 pm

    I watched through the entire video with help of google translate. Unfortunately, the picture referred by TheArmenian isn't probably Zircon but the DCR model of American HyFly program. The segment (starting on 30.37 minute mark) when they show the model was about doing and testing scaled down radar models of Western equipment so that when they look on VKO radar screen for real, they can do educated guesses on what it is.

    The presenter did troll Western audience in that particular segment though, going on like "they never completed it" and "Sorry western warriors" which could refer to keyboard warriors that might be enraged that the evil Russians are doing copies of notional Western stuff like F-18 to F-35 and GBI missile. Laughing

    hoom

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    Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  hoom on Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:22 am

    A while back (Dec?) someone senior (Rogozin I think) let slip something about Hypersonic tech already being in service, a bunch of ppl took that as a(n unlikely) claim that Zircon was already in service, I saw other comments which suggested more rationally IMO that it was reference to existing manoeuvring ballistic missile tech like Iskander.

    Apparently it was reference to this which has just been officially anounced by Putin.

    Kinzhal missile: Mach10, 2000km range, launched from Mig-31BM Shocked
    Could Zircon be based on this?

    Same time amongst other things announced is a new hypersonic maneuvring ICBM warhead as in production too.
    Point being Russia proving it knows how to do hypersonic.
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    George1

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    Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:59 am

    Zircon is ship-based, according to officials is already part of Russian Military and its not nuclear armed

    hoom

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    Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  hoom on Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:13 am

    It was Bondarev.
    And the thing about that is it was a longish interview/presser, at the time I found a transcript in Russian & he'd said a bunch of stuff about new weapons development without specifically mentioning actual weapon programs but did mention hypersonic tech.
    Then he was asked 'isn't it risky & incredibly expensive/wasteful developing this all new hypersonic tech', his response was 'no we already have hypersonic tech in service, we already know hypersonic', the reporters seem to have interpreted that as 'Zircon is in service', I think it was reference to existing manoeuvring ballistic tech.
    And it was close enough to the announced service date for this Kinzhal that he may have been referring to that.
    Either way he didn't actually say 'Zircon is in service'.

    Yes Zircon is ship based but that doesn't preclude it being a version of Kinzhal adapted for ship-launch similar to how Kalibr is related to the air-launched Kh-55.
    From the video the air-launched Kinzhal starts with a ballistic trajectory then appears to have a manoeuvring 2nd stage which can take multiple paths to target, Zircon could be that 2nd stage linked to a shorter range boost stage to get out of VLS & up to speed or just getting up to speed/altitude from a ship hurts the range a lot vs air-launch.

    hoom

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    Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  hoom on Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:14 am

    Seems Kinzhal is probably 'just' basically an air-launched Iskander


    Pretty much kills the idea that Zircon would be based on this, at 0.92m diameter Iskander is almost certainly too fat for UKSK.
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    GarryB

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    Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:53 am

    Edit: hmm interesting thing http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/hyfly.html it is actually a dual-mode ram/scramjet in a missile.
    Frankly I have been doubting the practicality of doing that but apparently it can be done. (albeit appears to have failed...)

    The only difference between a ramjet and a scramjet is the fact that a scramjet can burn fuel at supersonic speed... otherwise they are both ramjets.

    This suggests that a scramjet should be able to operate in ramjet mode at low speed....

    Otherwise what you are suggesting is that a turbojet that flys at mach 2.8 like the engines in the MiG-31 could not possibly be started on the ground at zero speed and operate at less than 500km/h during takeoff and landing... when clearly they do.

    I doubt they would be very efficient if they never went faster than 500km/h but that is not to say they don't work at those speeds.

    It looks very much like an air launched Iskander, but then being air launched there are no limits on speed or range... which shows you the potential of the ground launched missile... of course mach 10 is simply too fast for a rocket that size and 2,000km range means it is most likely fitted with a scramjet sustainer, unlike the Iskander...

    hoom

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    Re: 3M22 Zircon (Brahmos II) Hypersonic Missile

    Post  hoom on Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:01 am

    The only difference between a ramjet and a scramjet is the fact that a scramjet can burn fuel at supersonic speed... otherwise they are both ramjets.

    This suggests that a scramjet should be able to operate in ramjet mode at low speed....
    You need to reconfigure the shape of the combustion chamber between the two modes because the energy cycle is different.

    Not impossible but complex -> likely to be heavy, expensive & possibly unreliable so seems unlikely to do in a missile instead of a simple rocket booster to get it up to scramjet speed.
    Maybe Boeing found a relatively simple way to do it though dunno

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