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    State Armaments Program 2011-2020

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:01 pm

    38 modernized T-72's? That's it? I imagine that cost peanuts but help, only 38?
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    franco

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  franco on Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:30 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:38 modernized T-72's? That's it? I imagine that cost peanuts but help, only 38?

    Year is not done, one district out of 4 and focus seems to be on upgrading those T-80BVM's right now. Also some of those BVM's are replacing 72B3's that then replace the regular 72B's. All good in the march to have 2300 modern MBT's by end of 2020.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:44 pm

    franco wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:38 modernized T-72's? That's it? I imagine that cost peanuts but help, only 38?

    Year is not done, one district out of 4 and focus seems to be on upgrading those T-80BVM's right now. Also some of those BVM's are replacing 72B3's that then replace the regular 72B's. All good in the march to have 2300 modern MBT's by end of 2020.

    judging by recent comments about saving older equipment, and US growing presence out west, Russia will probably upgrading a hell of a lot more tanks than 2300, as that doesn't come close to what is needed. I forsee them coming up with an upgrade to T-72A's and upgraing maybe all T-80's or majority of them. Only makes sense.
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    franco

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  franco on Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:50 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    franco wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:38 modernized T-72's? That's it? I imagine that cost peanuts but help, only 38?

    Year is not done, one district out of 4 and focus seems to be on upgrading those T-80BVM's right now. Also some of those BVM's are replacing 72B3's that then replace the regular 72B's. All good in the march to have 2300 modern MBT's by end of 2020.

    judging by recent comments about saving older equipment, and US growing presence out west, Russia will probably upgrading a hell of a lot more tanks than 2300, as that doesn't come close to what is needed.  I forsee them coming up with an upgrade to T-72A's and upgraing maybe all T-80's or majority of them.  Only makes sense.

    Less then 3,000 are in active use, so with the T-14 coming (just like Christmas), don't see the need for too many more. If they field 350 T-90A's, 250 T-80U's and 300 T-80BVM's plus 1500 T-72B3's then they have over 70% modern plus the first 100 T-14's have already been ordered.


    Last edited by franco on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:53 pm

    You seem to keep up to date. But as you may have noticed, nothing is in stone. If they agreed to not break apart all of their old systems, because they said due to the need of them and growing issues, then it leads me to believe they plan to end up fielding more. Even if they are not exactly in active use, having modernized tanks ready to fight in short notice is ideal.
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    franco

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  franco on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:42 pm

    ^^^ Gospel

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:18 pm

    franco wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    franco wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:38 modernized T-72's? That's it? I imagine that cost peanuts but help, only 38?

    Year is not done, one district out of 4 and focus seems to be on upgrading those T-80BVM's right now. Also some of those BVM's are replacing 72B3's that then replace the regular 72B's. All good in the march to have 2300 modern MBT's by end of 2020.

    judging by recent comments about saving older equipment, and US growing presence out west, Russia will probably upgrading a hell of a lot more tanks than 2300, as that doesn't come close to what is needed.  I forsee them coming up with an upgrade to T-72A's and upgraing maybe all T-80's or majority of them.  Only makes sense.

    Less then 3,000 are in active use, so with the T-14 coming (just like Christmas), don't see the need for too many more. If they field 350 T-90A's, 250 T-80U's and 300 T-80BVM's plus 1500 T-72B3's then they have over 70% modern plus the first 100 T-14's have already been ordered.

    T-14 won't be around in sufficient numbers for years, T-72's will stay the main bulk of the Russian tank force for at least another 15 years. These are extremely expensive tank in the top 10.

    Russian budget is not also the biggest.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:06 am

    If one is stupid enough to compare it in USD, yes, its rather small all thanks to exchange rates.  But since Russia spends in Rubles, it has a rather high budget, especially in procurement.  But that is besides the point.  The point is, they have a large arsenal sitting away rotting and they are wanting to pinch every kopec that they can.  So if that is the case, then upgrade all the tanks.  All 5,000 of them to be ready for any conflict.  It will be a hell of a lot cheaper, especially spread out over a decade, than it is to build all brand new.

    You can still get life out of T-72A's and B's upgrading them to similar standard as T-90M. What they plan for T-80 is perfect. Once the Armata starts to come out in service, then it gives opportunity to start selling off the oldest of tanks modernized, to third parties whom would be interested in purchasing a rather modern but cheap tank for their armed forces. Helps reduce the overall costs in the long run. Rather than letting it sit there and rust away to nothing. What a waste of opportunities that it becomes a major question as to why retards like us on this forums knows this and they don't.
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    GarryB

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:57 am

    The majority of tanks in Russia wont be Armata.

    They will have heavy tracked brigades and medium tracked brigades  and medium wheeled brigades.

    The medium tracked brigades and medium wheeled brigades will have Kurganets and Boomerang based tanks.

    And before you say they lack armour, they will have APS systems able to stop APFSDS rounds and also most HEAT types from 360 degrees so in many senses would be better protected than a current T-90 or Abrams tank.

    Tanks constitute only a small fraction of a brigade... most of the other vehicles are soft light variants of existing types like the BMP or BTR.

    A Kurganets division therefore with Kurganets based vehicles will have overall better armour than a current brigade for that reason.

    The lighter vehicles will be much easier and cheaper to produce...


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    eehnie

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  eehnie on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:The medium tracked brigades and medium wheeled brigades will have Kurganets and Boomerang based tanks.

    More exactly, very likely they will have mobile antitank weapons of 125mm and 152mm.

    The key is in the balance between the units based on the different platforms. Russia will not lose strenght with the change, Russia will win strenght.
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    GarryB

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:56 am

    The overall numbers of vehicles will decrease but the overhaul of units means there will be faster mobilisation and more men available if needed.

    The CFE agreement had something like 2,000 tanks in western european Russia with about 4,000 in storage.

    There were no limits for eastern Russia, but the changes would see more divisions available ready to be used faster, with much more modern and capable systems and equipment.


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    eehnie

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    Re: State Armaments Program 2011-2020

    Post  eehnie on Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:00 am

    GarryB wrote:The overall numbers of vehicles will decrease but the overhaul of units means there will be faster mobilisation and more men available if needed.

    The CFE agreement had something like 2,000 tanks in western european Russia with about 4,000 in storage.

    There were no limits for eastern Russia, but the changes would see more divisions available ready to be used faster, with much more modern and capable systems and equipment.

    Not necessarily. I really do not expect a reduction. For it only is necessary a tie between procurement and exits.

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