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    Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:06 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    The real reason for Russian MARVs is one that I have never seen having been mentioned in the public. It's a bit of a technical reason though.

    Can you please shed some light on this ? Thanks .

    I will, but it wouldn't be a short post. Unfortunately I am a bit busy now. It's 8:06 PM Friday here; I am still at work and should probably work for another few hours.
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    RTN

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    MARV warheads

    Post  RTN on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:17 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    The real reason for Russian MARVs is one that I have never seen having been mentioned in the public. It's a bit of a technical reason though.

    Can you please shed some light on this ? Thanks .

    Ok Sujoy , in case you haven't got the "real reason" from navel gazing intellects , let there be LIGHT .

    The "real reason" why Russia is developing MARVs is exactly the same reason why the US or China is developing MARVs.

    Vann7

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    New offensive nuclear weapons?

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:45 am

    On his discourse in Crimea with the new local government , Putin.. told that Russia have Offensive nuclear weapons
    that no one else have in the world and that when time comes he will reveal information about them..


    "Nos referimos a las armas más modernas, tales como sistemas ofensivos, defensivos y técnica de los que otro ningún otro ejército del mundo dispone", advirtió Putin en la reunión celebrada en Crimea con miembros de la Duma estatal.

    "Hay algo que ya se conoce en cuanto a las armas estratégicas ofensivas: me refiero a la disuasión nuclear. Hay información que todavía no vamos a abrir, pero lo anunciaremos cuando llegue el momento adecuado", advirtió Putin.


    http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/137121-putin-rusia-armas-ejercito

    translation.. "We speak about the most modern weapons ,like offensive system that no other army in the world
    have.
    " told putin in a meeting in Crimea with members of [crimea state ] Duma. "There is something that is know as Nuclear deterrence ,offensive strategic weapons ,but that we will not reveal yet ,but we will do it .when the times comes. "


    What kind of Offensive nuclear weapons [that no one in the world have] and that they have never revealed either to the public, that Putin was speaking to the members of Crimea Government on his last week visit?

    Any thoughts or ideas? What super secret Offensive nuclear weapons Putin could be speaking? that they have never spoken about ?
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:31 pm

    Vann7 wrote:On his discourse in Crimea with the new local government , Putin.. told that Russia have Offensive nuclear weapons
    that no one else have in the world and that when time comes he will reveal information about them..


    "Nos referimos a las armas más modernas, tales como sistemas ofensivos, defensivos y técnica de los que otro ningún otro ejército del mundo dispone", advirtió Putin en la reunión celebrada en Crimea con miembros de la Duma estatal.

    "Hay algo que ya se conoce en cuanto a las armas estratégicas ofensivas: me refiero a la disuasión nuclear. Hay información que todavía no vamos a abrir, pero lo anunciaremos cuando llegue el momento adecuado", advirtió Putin.


    http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/137121-putin-rusia-armas-ejercito

    translation.. "We speak about the most modern weapons ,like offensive system that no other army in the world
    have.
    " told putin in a meeting in Crimea with members of [crimea state ] Duma. "There is something that is know as Nuclear deterrence ,offensive strategic weapons ,but that we will not reveal yet ,but we will do it .when the times comes. "


    What kind of Offensive nuclear weapons [that no one in the world have] and that they have never revealed either to the public, that Putin was speaking to the members of Crimea Government on his last week visit?

    Any thoughts or ideas? What super secret Offensive nuclear weapons Putin could be speaking? that they have never spoken about ?  

    If it's an ICBM that's fine, but I'm more interested if it's a electromagnetic gun that fires nuclear shells that can be both offensive and defensive, and by electromagnetic gun I don't mean rail-guns, I mean electromagnetic guns that use explosive generated batteries, which is exponentially superior to standard rail-guns:



    ...At 6:15 they speak that they were capable of firing projectiles at a speed of 15 km/sec., where as U.S. rail guns fire projectiles at 2 km/sec. Let's put that in to perspective, U.S. rail-guns fire projectiles at Mach 6/7 which is quite an impressive feat but is limited to use on ships because of massive power supply needs and also less reliable because of melting rails in the rail-gun. However Russian electromagnetic guns are more reliable because they don't require rails to fire, their much smaller and compact and could be applied to land vehicle chassis because they're powered by the much more small/compact, and much more practical explosive generated batteries, but above all else they can fire projectiles at much higher velocity at 15 km/sec., that equates to firing projectiles at the speed of Mach 44/45!!!
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:51 pm

    I wonder if it is a "Fractional Orbital Bombardment System".... It would totally trash the outer space treaty and probably even Start, but is sure as heck is an "offensive weapon". A nuclear rail-gun is something of dreams...
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:14 pm

    I hope it's satellite based nukes.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:23 pm

    Funny how you say "hope"...  Laughing  

    My best guess is that it is FOBS. I wouldn't be surprised if they had it in Soviet times, after all... However, FOBS doesn't allow a continuous orbit, so that would have to be fixed.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:47 pm

    The last thing im aware , Russia was testing/working with nukes armed missiles was ICBM with multi entry warheads but that the warheads on itself are hypersonic missiles,not just warheads that fall on different places and move by gravity, but mini hypersonic missiles that operate independently of each other and can be programed to target any specific target.. in this case.. the ICBM.. becomes more like a transportation launcher and not a missile. And the Missiles are stored inside in the warhead..  Rogozing was praising the last test they did end 2013 ,saying the west have nothing like that. am i right?  Question

    So this are the things i think Putin could be mentioning..

    MARV ( maneuvering re-entry vehicle ) that fly independently of each other and are launched not from land or sea..but they launched from the warhead of an ICBM while it have been launched.. on its mid course or final phase.
    So you call call the ICBM a high-hypersonic space drone.. that launch Hypersonic missiles on its midcourse or final phase. A system like that will be a nightmare for any system defense.. because the initial interception data of the ICBM will be useless , since the warhead once eject it will follow a totally different flight path of the original ICBM.



    No country in the world have an ICBM that can do that.. It is said US And China are working to develop one..
    but Perhaps Russia finally got one and now improving it and testing  Question 

    Such kind of weapon will be impossible to intercept with traditional air defenses NATO use.. like SM-3 ,THAAD or Patriot missiles.. and perhaps with S-400s and S-500s too, because of the lack of time to calculate the trajectory and the high  maneuverability of the missiles. Since it will be equivalent of intercepting a missile that was launched from a satellite flying above any country and that will travel the distance in 60 seconds. To calculate the interception of 8 -12 MARV hypersonic missiles fired above above your airspace ,in just 60 seconds while they perform non predictable flight path will be a nightmare for not saying impossible for traditional modern defenses based of projectiles impact on another. You will need something more science fiction like defenses that do not exist yet for nation defense on a nation or city scale,like Giants Electric fields that destroy any object that cross it or EMP fields. etc.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:01 am

    From memory didn't Russia just sign a ban on nukes in space with Argentina?


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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:26 am

    Yeah, a "ban". - Putin
     
    Why would Argentina even care? They are nowhere near Russia's "top nuclear targets" list!
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:29 am

    Many countries already have MARVs, the CCCP did for crying out loud... - MARVs don't have propulsion, as such they are not "missiles" but retargetable MIRVs.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:08 am

    Mike E wrote:I wonder if it is a "Fractional Orbital Bombardment System".... It would totally trash the outer space treaty and probably even Start, but is sure as heck is an "offensive weapon". A nuclear rail-gun is something of dreams...

    1.) Again where do you get this idea that it's a rail-gun? Rail-guns are less reliable because the rail in the guns have a tendency to melt after repeated use, a Russian electromagnetic gun requires neither the rail nor the massive power source just the explosive generated battery.

    2.) FOABS is banned by the Outer Space treaty, but that's besides the point because who needs FOABS when you have electromagnetic guns that fire projectiles at 15 km/sec? Let's put that in to prospective, escape velocity is 11 km/sec, so the electromagnetic guns that the Russians have been working on can fire projectiles at 15 km/sec which equates to Mach 44/45, that's 4 km's/sec. faster than escape velocity! That means  theoretically Russian aerospace forces could have MAZ trucks fitted with MLRS version of electromagnetic guns that can fire KE, conventional, and thermonuclear shells that can hit anywhere in the world within 20-40 minutes! Not just that similar systems could put compact satellites in LEO orbit, or they could knockout ICBM warheads when the electromagnetic guns are directly connected in to IAD early-warning radars and early-warning satellites.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:37 am

    Ok, my bad. I use "rail-gun" to describe electromagnetic guns, even though it isn't correct...

    I bet on my life, that Russia is nowhere near having an "electromagnetic gun" that can hit targets around the globe... While I wish it is true.......

    FOBS is great because;

    A) It is cheap (compared with the "gun")

    B) It could easily be accomplished.

    And C) FOBS could hit targets around the globe "within 20-40 minutes".


    I don't think that you aren't smart, but you sound like one of those "westerns" that believes the US has 100 "rods from god" satellites in orbit...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:18 pm

    And C) FOBS could hit targets around the globe "within 20-40 minutes".

    It takes an object in low earth orbit approximately 90 minutes to travel once around the planet.

    It takes even longer if you have to perform 5-6 orbits to get your orbital trajectory over the target you are after.

    Can you see how 20-40 minutes to hit anything on the planet is just US BS unless you base these systems all over the globe.

    Perhaps the new system he is talking about is a mobile ICBM with MARV warheads with their own seekers and propulsion so they can be delivered by air (An-124) to any region and fired (10,000km plus) at all sorts of targets (including mobile targets like ships) with the terminal guidance to make them accurate enough for a small light warhead?

    FOBs has been banned for some time and would be too destabilising.


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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:36 pm

    They (could) have their own propulsion system to lesser that time. - I really was just saying that it could strike targets almost as quick.

    Multiple launchers?

    More realistic that they (or RU) could do that than building a huge electromagnetic cannon that can fire around the globe...

    Very possible... Maybe they will reveal more on it later...

    You're telling me a nuclear-bomb-projectile launcher that could hit targets around the globe in "20-40 minutes" isn't? Any weapon of "mass destruction" is destabilizing, to say the least. - I do support MAD at the moment.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:46 pm

    Mike E wrote:They (could) have their own propulsion system to lesser that time. - I really was just saying that it could strike targets almost as quick.

    Multiple launchers?

    More realistic that they (or RU) could do that than building a huge electromagnetic cannon that can fire around the globe...

    Very possible... Maybe they will reveal more on it later...

    You're telling me a nuclear-bomb-projectile launcher that could hit targets around the globe in "20-40 minutes" isn't? Any weapon of "mass destruction" is destabilizing, to say the least. - I do support MAD at the moment.

    Do you even realize that this is impossible with huge nuclear warheads?

    The higher the speed the more air drag and therefor friction is present, the warhead would melt down if it would be launched with enough Mach to even travel 1000km. One EM cannon can not cover even one continent with warheads big as nuclear warheads even tactical ones.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:21 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Mike E wrote:They (could) have their own propulsion system to lesser that time. - I really was just saying that it could strike targets almost as quick.

    Multiple launchers?

    More realistic that they (or RU) could do that than building a huge electromagnetic cannon that can fire around the globe...

    Very possible... Maybe they will reveal more on it later...

    You're telling me a nuclear-bomb-projectile launcher that could hit targets around the globe in "20-40 minutes" isn't? Any weapon of "mass destruction" is destabilizing, to say the least. - I do support MAD at the moment.

    Do you even realize that this is impossible with huge nuclear warheads?

    The higher the speed the more air drag and therefor friction is present, the warhead would melt down if it would be launched with enough Mach to even travel 1000km. One EM cannon can not cover even one continent with warheads big as nuclear warheads even tactical ones.

    Who said the nuclear warheads have to be "huge"? 

    I was thinking that it would have a propulsion source to speed up its entry into the atmosphere where it will hit similar speeds (or greater speeds) than a MIRV or MARV. Newer technology could be used in advanced "shields" that will take the heat! - Pun intended

    You get my point. Either way, not a single country in the world has the technology and/or resources to build a such cannon. - Maybe in the future...

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:44 am


    Tesla had more advanced ideas of military weapons ,that what we have today.. that will make look nukes
    that US and Russia have like a weapon for amateurs. Tesla for example investigations claimed it was
    possible to manipulate the earth magnetic field and direct it at will , with a powerful enough machine..
    and for example manipulate the earth magnetic field and induce a lethal current into another nation and
    fry the entire country. Not by launching a missile ,but simply by knowing how to direct energy.. Is Similar to a Lightning but a billion times more powerful and that instead of killing one person it touch, wipe an entire nation. he also claimed that manipulating earth magnetic fields you could create earthquakes and or break the earth in parts.. Shocked 
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:56 am

    Tesla, was in my book, the smartest man that ever lived. It is simply ridiculous the ideas he came up with, which were later "invented" by someone else. I don't doubt that his "crazy" "world changer" weapon ideas couldn't be made...
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:46 am

    All live on this planet only exists because we have a protective magnetic field around the earth. Today we know that roughly every 26.000 years the magnetic field and the polarity is switched and during this process the magnetic airfield is either weakened or shot down for days up to weeks. During this time the earth is exposed to radiation from sun and space, lot of civilisations have been extingt through the high temperatures and radiation where humans literally were ignited from radiation. This Magnetic field around the earth is not so strong like we can create using technology, but it strentgh comes from its size. All living form on earth is nothing else but an electric circuit which runs on very low electrical communication between organs, brain to muscles and the rest of the body. In tests on trouts it was proven that the magnetic field when in a laboratory changed EM field compared with the EM field of the earth the physology of those trouts changed significantly, (not monstrous or anything just looked more neanderthal compart with normal raised trouts), this test proved that the EM field has direct influence of our physiology. Any change of EM field of the earth has direct impact on all live, of course not in the manner like in the trout test but when applying Teslas theories which are today less of theory then yes you can direct magnetic fields in such a manner that storms can be favored to locate in some spots. Storm clouds gather only when there is enough static voltage.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:24 am

    They (could) have their own propulsion system to lesser that time. - I really was just saying that it could strike targets almost as quick.

    They could but it would be very inefficient... they would be constantly accelerating but also having to constantly turn because to move around the earth at faster than low earth orbit speed means leaving earth orbit and heading off out into deep space unless you are constantly turning back to head for earth...

    More realistic that they (or RU) could do that than building a huge electromagnetic cannon that can fire around the globe...

    A huge EM cannon that could launch things into orbit would be very useful, but limited as to what sort of payloads it could get into space... water would be the most useful as it could be converted into oxygen or used as water, or rocket fuel and would not be damaged no matter what the acceleration.

    You're telling me a nuclear-bomb-projectile launcher that could hit targets around the globe in "20-40 minutes" isn't? Any weapon of "mass destruction" is destabilizing, to say the least. - I do support MAD at the moment.

    Something that ensures no matter what the other guy does you can still wipe him and his friends off the map is a good thing as it assures the destruction is mutual and therefore suicidal. (ie irrational).

    Having something that can destroy stuff anywhere in minutes puts everyone on a hair trigger where decisions have to be made fast while you still have lots of options... that is bad and can lead to the very thing you want to avoid... a real WWIII.

    [quote]Tesla had more advanced ideas of military weapons ,that what we have today.. that will make look nukes
    that US and Russia have like a weapon for amateurs. Tesla for example investigations claimed it was
    possible to manipulate the earth magnetic field and direct it at will , with a powerful enough machine..
    and for example manipulate the earth magnetic field and induce a lethal current into another nation and
    fry the entire country. Not by launching a missile ,but simply by knowing how to direct energy.. Is Similar to a Lightning but a billion times more powerful and that instead of killing one person it touch, wipe an entire nation. he also claimed that manipulating earth magnetic fields you could create earthquakes and or break the earth in parts.[/quote[]

    George Lucas had more advanced ideas about military weapons... he thought of a space station the size of a small moon that could destroy entire planets... thinking is one thing but actually making it happen and proving it is even possible is another.

    Besides there is only one planet in this universe we can live on... I really hope no one is stupid enough to risk totally screwing it up playing with the earths magnetic field for shts and giggles.


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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:34 am

    Playing for shts and giggles by provocing Russia a nuclear superpower is not the brightest idea either but the sociopaths still do it. Those sociopaths in power are ought to be killed who are running this madness and madhouse.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:43 am

    GarryB wrote:
    They (could) have their own propulsion system to lesser that time. - I really was just saying that it could strike targets almost as quick.

    They could but it would be very inefficient... they would be constantly accelerating but also having to constantly turn because to move around the earth at faster than low earth orbit speed means leaving earth orbit and heading off out into deep space unless you are constantly turning back to head for earth...

    More realistic that they (or RU) could do that than building a huge electromagnetic cannon that can fire around the globe...

    A huge EM cannon that could launch things into orbit would be very useful, but limited as to what sort of payloads it could get into space... water would be the most useful as it could be converted into oxygen or used as water, or rocket fuel and would not be damaged no matter what the acceleration.

    You're telling me a nuclear-bomb-projectile launcher that could hit targets around the globe in "20-40 minutes" isn't? Any weapon of "mass destruction" is destabilizing, to say the least. - I do support MAD at the moment.

    Something that ensures no matter what the other guy does you can still wipe him and his friends off the map is a good thing as it assures the destruction is mutual and therefore suicidal. (ie irrational).

    Having something that can destroy stuff anywhere in minutes puts everyone on a hair trigger where decisions have to be made fast while you still have lots of options... that is bad and can lead to the very thing you want to avoid... a real WWIII.

    Tesla had more advanced ideas of military weapons ,that what we have today.. that will make look nukes
    that US and Russia have like a weapon for amateurs. Tesla for example investigations claimed it was
    possible to manipulate the earth magnetic field and direct it at will , with a powerful enough machine..
    and for example manipulate the earth magnetic field and induce a lethal current into another nation and
    fry the entire country. Not by launching a missile ,but simply by knowing how to direct energy.. Is Similar to a Lightning but a billion times more powerful and that instead of killing one person it touch, wipe an entire nation. he also claimed that manipulating earth magnetic fields you could create earthquakes and or break the earth in parts.[/quote[]

    George Lucas had more advanced ideas about military weapons... he thought of a space station the size of a small moon that could destroy entire planets... thinking is one thing but actually making it happen and proving it is even possible is another.

    Besides there is only one planet in this universe we can live on... I really hope no one is stupid enough to risk totally screwing it up playing with the earths magnetic field for shts and giggles.

    I meant that a small, "booster" stage could get the warhead to the atmosphere quicker... Having real propulsion is a waste...

    The problem is how to retrieve the "projectile", as it would;

    A) Be traveling at very high speeds.

    B) Wouldn't be accurate. - Like launching a rocket that has no steering system... So it would need heavy RCS systems. - Maybe some "control surfaces" for in the atmosphere.

    C) Would have to be "caught" by a net like system.

    Not only that, but the cannon would be of outrageous size, cost, and complexity. - Bummer Mossad had to kill Gerald Bull......

    True, and that is why I'm an avid supporter of MAD.

    Yes and No... Look at how the invention of the ICBM took operations from multiple hours or even days, to a couple hours. It was a big shock at first, but things calmed down and countermeasures were developed. FOBS would probably have a similar effect.

    You can't compare Lucas and Tesla.. Has Tesla lived longer (had more time), he could've "delivered" (or not). He always claimed that he had such weapons.... If this is true nobody knows, but even I admit that he was probably dreaming.
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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:43 am

    Werewolf wrote:Playing for shts and giggles by provocing Russia a nuclear superpower is not the brightest idea either but the sociopaths still do it. Those sociopaths in power are ought to be killed who are running this madness and madhouse.

    Huh? What does that have to do with anything?
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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:01 am

    Mike E wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Playing for shts and giggles by provocing Russia a nuclear superpower is not the brightest idea either but the sociopaths still do it. Those sociopaths in power are ought to be killed who are running this madness and madhouse.

    Huh? What does that have to do with anything?

    An answer to the last sentence of GarryB's reply to me. That playing with earth EM field is insane but not more insane then playing war with nuclear powers, same level of insane to me.

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