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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

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    George1
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:09 pm

    Roscosmos announces tender for creating space robots

    More:
    http://tass.com/science/896770


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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:49 am

    Roscosmos declares contest for developing solar research satellite

    Arka will become the first Russian solar studies satellite since the Koronas-Foton satellite, operational from February to November 2009, went out of order

    MOSCOW, September 14. /TASS/. Russia’s state-run space corporation Roscosmos has declared a contest for the development of the space laboratory Arka, expected to produce high resolution images of the Sun, as follows from an announcement placed on the state purchases website.

    The satellite will be meant for studying objects up to 100 kilometers in size within ranges that cannot be registered from the Earth’s surface. In particular, it may help scientists find out how solar flares emerge.

    The yet-to-be developed observatory is to be put in an orbit no less than 500 kilometers high alongside the launch of another space vehicle.

    Under the plan the satellite’s preliminary design is to be developed by November 2017. In 2018-2020 design documentation for the mock-ups and experimental samples is to be finalized and the mockups made and tested. In 2019-2023 test products are to be manufactured and tested comprehensively. The assembly of a flight sample of the Arka satellite and its experimental testing on the ground are due in 2021-2024. Its launch and flight tests are going to be held in 2021-2024.

    Arka will become the first Russian solar studies satellite since the Koronas-Foton satellite, operational from February to November 2009, went out of order.


    More:
    http://tass.com/science/899704


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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:37 am

    According to Atlantic-Integrationist clown Anatoly Zak, Russia is looking at a Zenit replacement in the 17T to LEO category to serve as the basis for Baiterek, and whose 1st stage could be used as a module in a future Russian SHLV (much the same as a URM-01 is the basis for the Angara family). Sounds like this could be related to the Fenix project, or an evolution of the Fenix concept to maintain the usefulness of the Baikonur infrastructure into the future.

    Russia charts new path to super rocket



    Project history

    The loss of Zenit left a gap in the payload range of the Russian rocket fleet, in particular its ability to deliver mid-size communications satellites with a mass of under five tons into the geostationary transfer orbit, GTO. The death of Zenit also further stalled a decade-long Russian-Kazakh venture known as Baiterek, aiming to bring a new-generation commercial launcher to the Baikonur Cosmodrome.

    On January 26-27, 2016, representatives of Roskosmos met with their Kazakh counterparts to discuss the fate of the Baiterek project and directed the industry to consider various alternatives to Zenit. By the middle of the year, the industry came up with a concept dubbed Sunkar, or "falcon" in Kazakh.

    At the heart of the new design was the idea to enlarge the diameter of the Zenit rocket from 3.8 to 4.1 meters, so it could match the "caliber" of the Proton rocket. As a result, the Proton's production machinery could be re-used with relatively few upgrades to manufacture the new-generation launcher, after its predecessor's planned retirement in mid-2020s.

    Unlike Proton, all stages on Sunkar would burn non-toxic kerosene and liquid oxygen, as it had long been insisted upon by the Kazakh government.

    The Sunkar could utilize the existing launch and processing infrastructure for the Zenit rocket in Baikonur, which could be funded by Kazakhstan.

    In the commercial launch market, the Sunkar should replace the yet-to-be-built Proton-Light variant, delivering mid-size satellites, while Angara-5 would take over duties of the Proton-M version carrying the heaviest payloads.

    Ironically, the proposal to develop yet another type of space launcher essentially reverses the previous strategy at GKNPTs Khrunichev of relying on a modular architecture of the Angara family to cover the entire spectrum of space payloads. However, unlike Angara's standard booster, URM-1, the first stage of the Sunkar rocket will be large enough to serve as a building block for a future super-heavy rocket, reaching payloads of at least 80 tons, so it could serve as the main vehicle for the deep-space exploration program. Therefore, the Sunkar proposal can be considered as the first step in building a more powerful family of space rockets in Russia.

    Fatter Zenit

    Both stages of the Sunkar rocket will feature a diameter of 4.1 meters, allowing their shipment to Baikonur by rail. However that economic method of delivery would not be an option for the new Russian launch site in Vostochny due to various bottlenecks at tunnels and bridges.

    The first stage of the Sunkar booster would be propelled by a modified four-chamber RD-171 engine, inherited from Zenit. Alternatively, a pair of two-chamber RD-180 engines could be employed to generate an equal amount of thrust.

    The first stage will be equipped with an aft section with a diameter of 3.68 meters, matching the dimensions of the Zenit rocket and housing the similar propulsion system, in order to make the Sunkar compatible with the most of Zenit's ground infrastructure.

    Second stage

    The second stage of the Sunkar launch vehicle will be propelled by a pair of four-chamber RD-0124A engines, largely borrowed from the URM-2 booster in the Angara family. Although this newly improvised propulsion system wielding eight combustion chambers is not an example of simplicity, it allows to keep the length of the second stage to an absolute minimum, while still providing an unmatched efficiency. Not to mention, the RD-0124 engine is already available and was thoroughly flight tested on the Soyuz-2-1b and Angara rockets.

    Unfortunately, the new rocket could not take advantage of Angara's URM-2 stage itself, because it would be too small for a vehicle of that size.

    Third stage

    The existing variant of the Block-D space tug, such as Block DM-03, which employs the same propellant as the lower booster stages, is expected to serve as the third stage on the Sunkar booster. It will have the task of completing the orbital insertion into the initial parking orbit and then pushing its cargo to the geostationary transfer orbit or to the proper geostationary orbit.

    Chances for implementation

    The development of the Sunkar rocket could be folded into the Feniks project, which was to be funded within the Russian Federal Space Program extending from 2016 to 2025 and aimed at developing a new-generation rocket to replace the Soyuz family. Another contender for federal funds within the Feniks program was the Soyuz-5 proposal from RKTs Progress, which builds all Soyuz rockets. However after the conflict with Ukraine had began in 2014, the Feniks was apparently steered toward building an equivalent of the Zenit rocket inside Russia.

    The authors of the Sunkar proposal believed that if approved in the near future, the new rocket could be ready for launch from an upgraded launch facility at Site 45 at the beginning of 2024 and start commercial missions from Baikonur a year and a half later, right around the time of the Proton's retirement.

    The manufacturing of the rocket could be distributed between various industrial centers in Russia, with RKTs Progress in Samara likely taking the leading role, possibly relying on available manufacturing base inherited from the Energia program.

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/sunkar.html
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    kvs
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  kvs on Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:42 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:According to Atlantic-Integrationist clown Anatoly Zak, Russia is looking at a Zenit replacement in the 17T to LEO category to serve as the basis for Baiterek, and whose 1st stage could be used as a module in a future Russian SHLV (much the same as a URM-01 is the basis for the Angara family). Sounds like this could be related to the Fenix project, or an evolution of the Fenix concept to maintain the usefulness of the Baikonur infrastructure into the future.

    Russia charts new path to super rocket




    It is nice to see this project.   Russia does not need some additional Soyuz replacement.   Angara can do the job just fine.   Modules based on
    the RD-170 or update should be a priority to have the flexibility to build a 100 ton payload class launcher.   I would call this the right-sized
    Angara variant.

    Note how Zak always harps about the diameter of the rockets and that they can't make it to Vostochny via train.   Who the fuck cares!
    If they are so desperate to launch from there they should ship them by boat through the Arctic Ocean following the Russian coastline.  
    He also keeps harping about Russian rocket manufacturers trying to save costs by recycling old tech.   This clown should look at the
    US SLS:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System  

    It's a freaking Shuttle component rehash.   They moved the engines from the retired Shuttle into the main tank and use the same solid
    rocket boosters.   Zak must have stars in his eyes from all this dramatic innovation.
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:53 am


    Zak is a fucking retard. I am glad someone else also noticed his train fetish. Why the fuck would trains be an issue in this day and age when you have cargo aircraft? Moron thinks it's still 1950's or something.

    Russia will be making those rockets as wide as they need them to be.

    That obsession of his with diameter of large cylindrical objects must imply some suppressed subconscious urge.

    And he never misses opportunity to harp about Ukraine. He just can't swallow the fact that Ukraine got left behind to suck it's own dick. They will not be making anything more complex than fertilizer ever again.
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Rmf on Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:38 am

    just as i was predicting its a great rocket proposal. simmilar to zenit but with some differences , they increased size of 1st stage which is good , but choice of engines is not good , it should use same engines from angara rd-192, but 4. that way you have universal single engine for evey launcher. also only kerosine and oxygen is used in all stages which is good.
    i guess railroad is good for transport up to novosibisk in central siberia , from there its not very far , 3000km , they could transport it by plane an-225  ,2 rockets - 1 inside and 1 on its back to vostochny.
    but other thing strikes me , 2024? Holy damn , what has become of the Russian space program? its ruined??

    Engines are ready; fuel tank factory is ready; launch facilities are basically ready; command and control is ready; why the hell would take 7+ years?
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Rmf on Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:25 am

    by the way, in kazahstan language sunkar = falcon Wink
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:21 am

    Rmf wrote:just as i was predicting its a great rocket proposal. simmilar to zenit but with some differences , they increased size of 1st stage which is good , but choice of engines is not good , it should use same engines from angara rd-192, but 4. that way you have universal single engine for evey launcher. also only kerosine and oxygen is used in all stages which is good.
    i guess railroad is good for transport up to novosibisk in central siberia , from there its not very far , 3000km , they could transport it by plane an-225  ,2 rockets - 1 inside and 1 on its back to vostochny.
    but other thing strikes me , 2024? Holy damn , what has become of the Russian space program? its ruined??

    Engines are ready; fuel tank factory is ready; launch facilities are basically ready; command and control is ready; why the hell would take 7+ years?
    Good points, but I don't belive that you can fit 4x RD-191 in a 4.1m diameter core (RD-192 is the proposed methalox version).

    Not sure why you think 7 years is unreasonable. Russia doesn't have existing production facilities for a Zenit class vehicle as Zenit was built in Ukraine by Yuzhmash. I'd expect this vehicle should be built by Krunichev as an up-scaled version of Angara using same design methodology, manufacturing techniques and sub-components wherever possible. Build a new plant at Omsk alongside the new Angara plant, that way you leverage the Angara infrastructure to it maximum extent.

    Regarding launch facilities, a new pad will be required. It unlikely Russia will want to modify the sole Zenit pad at Baikonur, and this pad couldn't be adapted to the stacked heavy versions in any case. One option could be design an upsized Angara-style pad capable of handing both Angara and Feniks/Sunkar/Whatever and building this at Vostochny inplace of the planned 2nd Angara pad?
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  kvs on Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:46 pm

    The whole point of this project is to leverage the RD-170 class engine technology that Russia possesses. Obviously the RD-170 will
    be upgraded as well.

    It takes several years just to build new launch facilities and this rocket will require a new launch pad design. The main thing is for
    them to get started instead of delaying the project based on various pretexts.
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Rmf on Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:18 pm

    ukraine was producing tanks and integration but engines were made in russia. never the less its moot point , when russia has rd-191 , my mistake not rd-192. its 1,92 MegaNewtn thrust which is compact and derivative of rd-171 itself. it can fit . it has less weight 4 combined then rd-171. and more slightly thrust which they want. that way you have mass production what they wanted all along....

    see how stupid soyuz launch pad is in vostochny now>? billions blown for nothing.... instead angara and sunkar launch pads should have been built.you cant built launch pad for angara + sunkar all in 1. sunkar is 4 times larger.
    sunkar should be built in 4 years max , and launch pad too. they have zenit plans,engines, manufacture big tanks , everything... 7 years and with more delays it will probably be 10 years= massive coruption and siphoning of scarse resourses.

    also look how they improved sunkar and rectify flaws from zenit , increase in fuel (and weight) of 9% but payload increase in 25%.
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Rmf on Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:53 pm

    Ofcourse no point in talking without some graphycs so people know what is about and have a perspective.
    in the picture is angara-a5 with kvtk hydrogen upper stage ,stacked large sunkar launcher proposal and single sunkar rocket .... see how kvtk fits sunkar launcher much better.
    now some rough calculations....
    sunkar using only oxygen+kerosine in all stages  -80+ tons to LEO.
    sunkar launcher but with `10% increase in engine power to rd-171 and larger kerosine third stage - 105tonns .
    sunkar using  hydrogen 3rd  stage  (3rd stage would be larger then in picture , larger then angaras)--110t.
    sunkar with 10% increase in engine power of rd-171 , and even larger hydrogen 3rd stage - 150t.

    so very good flexibility,.... this thing sets you to moon in 1 shot.... angara can never match this.

    i think building a sunkar launch pad in kazahstan although its using their money for launch pad is bad idea... it should be built in russia - vostochny.
    zenith was built in mind to replace soyuz by the end of 90s if ussr still existed , they still fly it and blow money on that pit in vostochny with no real reason, nore mission.
    thats got to stop. if presidential decree is needed to brake lobbies and send soyuz and proton to history finally and focus on these 2 launchers and single engine type- exclusively.  (and hydrogen for smaller third stages) so be it , putin has to be decicive and firm.

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:06 am

    Rmf wrote:ukraine was producing tanks and integration but engines were made in russia. never the less its moot point , when russia has rd-191 , my mistake not rd-192. its 1,92 MegaNewtn thrust which is compact and derivative of rd-171 itself. it can fit . it has less weight 4 combined then rd-171. and more slightly thrust which they want. that way you have mass production what they wanted all along....

    see how stupid soyuz launch pad is in vostochny now>? billions blown for nothing.... instead angara and sunkar launch pads should have been built.you cant built launch pad for angara + sunkar all in 1. sunkar is 4 times larger.
    sunkar should be built in 4 years max , and launch pad too. they have zenit plans,engines, manufacture big tanks , everything... 7 years and with more delays it will probably be 10 years= massive coruption and siphoning of scarse resourses.

    also look how they improved sunkar and rectify flaws from zenit , increase in fuel (and weight) of 9% but payload increase in 25%.

    You are too harsh on Soyuz.  There will always be medium payloads (eg 8T to LEO) for which Angara-1.2/Soyuz 2-1V is inadequate and A-3 is overkill, so Soyuz will keep its current niche.  The manufacturing infrastructure exists and is wholly paid for, and a vast experience base exists for building and operating these vehicles and their pads.  It's better to leverage that legacy and introduce incremental evolutionary improvements than to simply throw it all away (*).  Modern Soyuz 2b is a totally different beast to the original Soyuz 11A511 launcher.

    (*) BTW that's what the US does, mainly because their aerospace industry is all private and competitors wish to advance their own products over those of their competitors, and couldn't care less about retaining national capabiities which they themselves don't own).

    Likewise, Vostochny is not a waste of billions, as much of the cost is for the common infrastruture that will be used by future non-Soyuz vehicles.  Facilities like vehicle & payload testing and integration areas, fuel storage and handling systems, communications and radar facilities, accomodation blocks and administration buildings, roads and airport etc etc.  The cost of the Soyuz pad is only a small component of the 1st stage of the Cosmodrome, and despite the blabberings of Atlanticist fuckwitz like A.Zak, a Soyuz pad was a necessary first step. Angara wasn't ready when Vostochny was conceived, and there was zero chance that either Proton or Zenit facilities would be replicated, let alone near-obselete boosters such as Kosmos or Tsyklon. Now the Cosmodrome is built, has an active launcher available, and can now be expanded and its tempo of operations increased as reliance on Baikonour is wound down.

    Massive corruption?  Oh, don't start with that BS...  Only a fool actually believes that any signficant sum has been diverted by corrupt practises, and what funds are stolen are due ENTIRELY to criminal behaviour by the privately owned sub-contractors that Spetstroi must use on a project of this scale. The Russian gov seems to have been rather ruthless in punishing transgressors (ie thieves), so that is a good sign. Putins team has made huge strides in tackling corruption, but our 5th-column media pressitutes refuse to admit this in order to protect the "Russia is corrupt" narrative. There are still problems (as the recent arrest of the 2nd in charge of the governments anti-corruption watchdog attests to) but progress is being made, and corrupt gov officials will increasingly become an endangered species.

    Agreed that Sunkar (or whatever it gets called) needs to be a substantial improvement on Cold-War era Zenit. So far, the publically-available specs look promising!  russia
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:38 am

    Rmf wrote:Ofcourse no point in talking without some graphycs so people know what is about and have a perspective.
    in the picture is angara-a5 with kvtk hydrogen upper stage ,stacked large sunkar launcher proposal and single sunkar rocket .... see how kvtk fits sunkar launcher much better.
    now some rough calculations....
    sunkar using only oxygen+kerosine in all stages  -80+ tons to LEO.
    sunkar launcher but with `10% increase in engine power to rd-171 and larger kerosine third stage - 105tonns .
    sunkar using  hydrogen 3rd  stage  (3rd stage would be larger then in picture , larger then angaras)--110t.
    sunkar with 10% increase in engine power of rd-171 , and even larger hydrogen 3rd stage - 150t.

    so very good flexibility,.... this thing sets you to moon in 1 shot.... angara can never match this.

    i think building a sunkar launch pad in kazahstan although its using their money for launch pad is bad idea... it should be built in russia - vostochny.
    zenith was built in mind to replace soyuz by the end of 90s if ussr still existed , they still fly it and blow money on that pit in vostochny with no real reason, nore mission.
    thats got to stop. if presidential decree is needed to brake lobbies and send soyuz and proton to history finally and focus on these 2 launchers and single engine type- exclusively.  (and hydrogen for smaller third stages) so be it , putin has to be decicive and firm.

    Some good points here, and I think this architecture is looking like an optimum development path for a flexible and sustainable launch capability. Modular Angara for light-to-heavy payloads up to 25T (with Soyuz derivatives used for medium mass ~8T to LEO) and Sunkar/Feniks stacks used between 17T and 80-100T or more. Modularity is the key, especially if modules can be recovered in such a way as to promote effective re-use (even if it is only intended to allow stripdown of recovered blocks rather than wholesale re-use).

    Again, I don't agree with scrapping Soyuz. Throwing away a perfectly good light-medium launcher is lunacy, especially as many military payloads fit its lift capacity and Plesetsk has an abundance of pads and ground infrastructure. In fact, I'd keep the Soyuz manned ferry in production well beyond any introduction of PPTS/Federation as its cheap & reliable, the manufacturing infrastructure is paid for and the workforce is trained. I'd keep it going as a backup delivery system for passengers and cargo, and also offer it for sale (c/w tech transfer) to developing nations who want their own national manned space capabilities but don't want to spend a fortune to re-invent the wheel.

    Agree 100% on Kazakhstan. If the Kazakh goverment wants to help fund development that is fine, but they can pay for the mods to the exisitng pad(s). Russia needs infrastructure in Russia, and this is not negotiable.

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Rmf on Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:10 pm

    angara -a3 short version , without urm-2 as third stage,  but just core and satelite own propulsion had about 11t to LEO. anyway as i posted looong ago ,angara is bit oversized.
    URM-1 is 141t , 4 times larger URM should be 560t ,  sunkar 1st stage  is 430t.
    at least 10% reduction and using NK-331 should have been a choise.
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:17 pm

    S7 airline buys into Sea Launch

    The Russian airline company, S7 Group, agreed to buy assets of the troubled Sea Launch project, including both vessels and the launch support equipment in Long Beach, California, at a price tag of around $150 million. Following a series of negotiations, the project's main contractor, RKK Energia, and the S7 Group announced the deal on Sept. 27, 2016, at the International Astronautics Congress in Guadalajara, Mexico. At the signing ceremony, RKK Energia and S7 promised to resume Sea Launch missions by the end of 2018, or 18 months after obtaining approvals for the deal. The approvals had to come from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls, DDTC, and the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, CFIUS.

    The Sea Launch is then expected to perform around 70 launches before a major overhaul is required, its new investors believed. At the singing of the deal, RKK Energia and S7 said that the Sea Launch would remain based at the port of Long Beach and continue using the Zenit rocket. All previous plans to replace the Ukrainian-built vehicle with a Russian booster and to relocate the vessels to Russia were apparently dashed at least for the time being as financially and technically unrealistic.

    At the same time, RKK Energia and S7 admitted that no agreement on the resumption of Zenit production in Dnepropetrovsk had been reached. The officials present at the signing ceremony were also unable to provide any scenarios for the resolution of the enormous outstanding dept hanging over Sea Launch, or any details on the prospects of settling the lawsuit with Boeing.

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/sealaunch.html#s7

    Bizarre... why the frack would RKK Energia be even remotely interested giving a boost to Ukropistani manufacture of Zenit?  Russia should do everything to ensure that the fucking Banderites loose Yuzmash/Yuznoye through a total lack of investment/orders, and the Ukrops have no ability to build anything larger than an artillery rocket.
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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion

    Post  kvs on Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:52 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:S7 airline buys into Sea Launch

    The Russian airline company, S7 Group, agreed to buy assets of the troubled Sea Launch project, including both vessels and the launch support equipment in Long Beach, California, at a price tag of around $150 million. Following a series of negotiations, the project's main contractor, RKK Energia, and the S7 Group announced the deal on Sept. 27, 2016, at the International Astronautics Congress in Guadalajara, Mexico. At the signing ceremony, RKK Energia and S7 promised to resume Sea Launch missions by the end of 2018, or 18 months after obtaining approvals for the deal. The approvals had to come from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls, DDTC, and the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, CFIUS.

    The Sea Launch is then expected to perform around 70 launches before a major overhaul is required, its new investors believed. At the singing of the deal, RKK Energia and S7 said that the Sea Launch would remain based at the port of Long Beach and continue using the Zenit rocket. All previous plans to replace the Ukrainian-built vehicle with a Russian booster and to relocate the vessels to Russia were apparently dashed at least for the time being as financially and technically unrealistic.

    At the same time, RKK Energia and S7 admitted that no agreement on the resumption of Zenit production in Dnepropetrovsk had been reached. The officials present at the signing ceremony were also unable to provide any scenarios for the resolution of the enormous outstanding dept hanging over Sea Launch, or any details on the prospects of settling the lawsuit with Boeing.

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/sealaunch.html#s7

    Bizarre... why the frack would RKK Energia be even remotely interested giving a boost to Ukropistani manufacture of Zenit?  Russia should do everything to ensure that the fucking Banderites loose Yuzmash/Yuznoye through a total lack of investment/orders, and the Ukrops have no ability to build anything larger than an artillery rocket.

    Russia is not supporting Yuzhmash. It is buying the rig and other assets at knock down prices and Yuzhmash will only get a fraction of the $150 million.
    Boeing will likely get most of it.

    The only reason I can see why Russian companies would buy this equipment is they think Russia can use it. They are fully aware of the stoppage
    in Zenit production. This implies that there will be an affordable Zenit replacement for Sea Launch. Sunkar has very similar mass and dimensions
    and uses the same fuel and uses a similar engine since the Zenit employs the RD-171. But it will be a few years before it is ready. Maybe not so
    many years.

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