Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Share

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:29 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Viktor wrote:

    But if we want to be mean we can  remember that many US rockets and S.Korea rockets use Russian engines (RD-180 and its derivatives with % tend to increase

    due to NK-33 purchased by the US) making US rockets essentially Russian ones. In that view we can safely conclude that Russian space market hold under its

    grip 70-80% of all world launches. So lets not panic immediately Very Happy


    The docu "Engines that came in from the Cold" about russian engines that were used on american rockets, translated by BitnikGr.

    Tnx man. I have watched this documentary many years ago I think on National Geographic. In fact it was one of the several things (technical) that steered my interest and love towards Russian military engineering.

    Mindstorm
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 734
    Points : 917
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:55 pm


    grip 70-80% of all world launches. So lets not panic immediately




    Instead exist much more than a reason.........to worry about latest "development" in launch's efficiency of a vector system very-highly tested/reliable and for which exist a production's standard and validated quality control process codified long more than twenty years of production and operational experience.


    The very strange "selectivity" (more than two standard deviations out of normal distribution) in the latest space launch's history, in particular at damage of some highly critical military and scientific programs, cast more than a shadow on the "reliability" and even "alignment" of some personnel in component's sub-contractor and quality control chain and put under a complete different light the reason for the sudden, abrupt U-turn, in the test-launch's success percentage of "Bulava" SLBM , after that some eye begun to observe much more closely the actions of personnel in the sub-contractor component chain.


    Very likely Yeltsin's years have left some greedy "undesired guest" in the peripheral production chain....something say to me that we will see ,at brief , a selective and painful (for them) disinfestation in the field...

    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 595
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 38
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  SOC on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:13 pm

    Viktor wrote:Still take a look at the overall launches:


    - 2007 - 26 launch (1 failed)
    - 2008 - 27 launch (1 failed)
    - 2009 - 32 launch (1 failed)
    - 2010 - 31 launch (1 failed)
    - 2011 - 35 launch (5 failed)
    - 2012 - 29 launch (2 failed)
    - 2013 - 18 launch (2 failed) - in progress

    That makes 198 launches in almost 7 year time with 93.44% success rate - which is overall very good score but still there are plenty of room to improvement

    I'd be more concerned with the increase in failures. Is it a quality control issue? A component that needs replacing? You've got 4 failures in 116 launches (2007-2010, 96.55%), and then 9 in 82 (2011-2013, 89%). Whatever the problem is I hope they get it worked out.

    Viktor wrote:But if we want to be mean we can  remember that many US rockets and S.Korea rockets use Russian engines

    Nah. Mean would be this:



    angel 

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:01 am

    My initial thought was in line with mindstorm and he could be right because most of the failure occurs mostly with rockets carrying military cargo. Much less with commercial one. But than again same situation was with Bulava malfunction too. At the end investigation revealed that it was quality control issue and with that settled Bulava functions perfectly.
    Another thing that I initially thought and was in line with minstorm was that Proton was (after Progress) the most reliable rocket ever build so how could it be that few of them carrying military cargo blows up in such short period of time. But than again this is not the same old reliable Proton of Soviet Union but highly modernized version with high influx of most likely Angara technology. So again it could be that quality control is once again the issue as SOC thinks too.
    Of course until the end of investigation we can only speculate.

    SOC wrote:angel 

    Well did you know that Russia intended to carry Olympic torch in space and back anyway so this could indeed be it Very Happy

    Cyberspec
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1946
    Points : 2117
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:10 am

    This is a MAJOR stuff up, no two ways about it.

    They've announced a consolidation of all Space related companies into one holding company - Joint Rocket and Space Corporation....and looks like heads will roll


    Enterprises of the Russian space industry will be consolidated within one company. This was announced on July 2, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin

    According to the vice-premier in charge of defense, the organization, is to be called "Joint Rocket and Space Corporation" into which will be transferred state-owned shares of the respective companies.

    ...

    "In it's current form, the  space rocket industry, we will not move forward," - said Deputy Prime Minister, commenting on the fall of the carrier rocket "Proton-M".

    Rogozin said that the accident will result in "very severe outcomes" in personnel and organizational terms.


    Full report: http://vpk-news.ru/news/16610

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:08 pm

    First testing images of russian satellite Resurs-P - american cities

    http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=20195


    What about colour images ?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:43 am

    Colour is over rated.

    Many colour satellite images are false colour anyway to highlight certain features...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:16 pm

    Proton Failure Sets Back Russian Space Program

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:06 pm

    Now here is a interesting development.

    Strategic Rocket Forces command centers equipped with the control system of the 5th generation

    The automated system will address not only the usual tasks - bringing orders, collection of reports and monitoring readiness of launchers - but also to make use of the automated change of plans and operational retargeting missiles.

    LINK


    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:22 pm

    In 2011 they said they were deploying 4th gen Command and Control system , now its moved to 5th Gen ?


    https://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/rvsns-fourth-generation-asbu-being-introduced/

    In particular, presently, development is complete and introduction of the fourth generation ASBU into troop echelons has begun,’ Colonel Koval said.”

    The new system supports automated exchange of employment plans and operational retargeting of missiles, along with the resolution of traditional missions of transmitting orders, gathering reports and monitoring the combat readiness of launchers.”

    “‘And the transmission of combat command and control orders directly to launchers, without intermediate echelons, is supported, including under nuclear effects and radioelectronic suppression,’ Koval noted.”

    “He noted that each of the system’s stations, which are made using a new domestic component base, is provided with triple reserve communications and data transmission systems and malfunction scanning which precisely identifies the individual element needing replacement.”

    “Further improvement of the ASBU is connected, first and foremost, with improving the RF Armed Forces command and control system as a whole, and also with the command and control requirements of new generation nuclear missile weaponry.”

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:28 pm

    Human factor causes Proton accident: rocket sensors connected with wrong polarity - source

    The crash of a Proton-M rocket shortly after take off on July 2 was due to a human error, a source close to experts probing the accident told Interfax-AVN.

    "The angular velocity sensors were wired up with the wrong polarity. Therefore, the rocket was orientated incorrectly," he said.

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:30 pm

    As always, human stupidity is a far bigger threat than mechanical failure.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:31 am

    TR1 wrote:As always, human stupidity is a far bigger threat than mechanical failure.

    Why dont they probe for sabotage as well , It can be a simple human stupidity or a deliberate one.

    Most of stupidity I have seen happens only when the military launches its satellite.

    Hachimoto
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 153
    Points : 167
    Join date : 2013-02-08
    Age : 31

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Hachimoto on Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:42 am

    Humain mistakes (and not stupidity) is and will always be their

    Remember last NASA cargo their was a humain mistake in network cables but they manage to detect it less than half hour before the launch

    Quality check is the key, which should also detect a possible sabotage Surprised

    Mindstorm
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 734
    Points : 917
    Join date : 2011-07-20

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:56 am


    Austin wrote:Why dont they probe for sabotage as well , It can be a simple human stupidity or a deliberate one.

    Most of stupidity I have seen happens only when the military launches its satellite.




    Exactly to the point Austin .

    Even more true if we consider that those "highly selective mistakes" happen always in secondary components delivered by private subcontractors outside the field of view of security "vigilant eyes".



    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:15 am

    There is design and there is process... first of all why would the sensors need to be able to be connected in different ways to allow different polarity settings?

    If they don't then they need to be designed so they can't be attached any way except the correct way.

    Error prevention by design.

    Equally there should be a process in place that demands the person checking is independent of the person doing so that something is done and then it is checked to be done correctly by someone else or tested to ensure it is OK before launch.

    With the issue of sabotage it is sad to say that such things extend to electronics... perhaps trojan horses are present in the electronics to generate a failure to make the vehicle crash while giving false readings that everything is OK and false readings that something else is wrong...

    Makes domestic production of parts essential... the US did this sort of thing years ago with computer chips they knew were going to be used in nuclear reactors... of course it would be ironic if US astronauts were killed because the trojans that make Russian rockets crash are in the rockets that take US astronauts to the ISS...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:24 am

    Garry I agree with your assessment that failure should be prevented by Design as far as possible then let Human fall into it. Also I too hope all the Russian Rocket components are sourced from Russian source.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:07 am

    Angara competition in the making ,ESA approves Angara 6 basic design

    Esa selects Ariane 6 basic design

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:08 am

    Can some one tell me how is Angara a better launch vehical and what reliability factor it is aiming for ?

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:27 pm

    Just glancing through some of the design choice countries have made for future launch vehical

    Europe Ariane 6 will be 1st ,2nd stage all solid and 3rd stage Liquid.
    Indian GSLV Mk3 will be 1st stage solid and 2nd and 3d stage Liquid ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosynchronous_Satellite_Launch_Vehicle_Mk_III )
    Russian Angara will be all 3 stage liquid fuel ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angara_%28rocket_family%29 )

    Not sure what direction US will take but they have a new SDV program under works
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle-Derived_Launch_Vehicle

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:28 pm

    Report: 'Upside down' sensors led to $1.3bn Proton-M rocket crash

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5665
    Points : 6071
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:19 pm

    Rogozin denies that human factor is behind the Proton carrier rocket crash

    http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c32/805914.html

    "
    A version that someone has mixed up the “plus” with “minus” is annoying and makes experts shrug their shoulders,” the vice-premier told journalists.

    He explained that the technology of making such systems is “meant for fools”. “First, one has to be color-blind to make a mistake in connecting the wires because the wires which need to be connected have one color,” Rogozin said.

    “Second, one of the wires is short in order to have access to a connection. The second wire is long in order to have access to another tab,” Rogozin said. He added that the technology had been tested for decades.

    The Russian vice-premier concluded that since investigators were not considering a subversive act as a possible version, then the outpour of that kind of information was nothing more than “red herring”.

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9424
    Points : 9916
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:46 am

    Russian Space Center Delays ‘Sabotage’ – Official

    MOSCOW, August 21 (RIA Novosti) – Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin slammed the slow progress of construction at Russia’s Vostochny cosmodrome during a visit to the facility Wednesday, saying the delays amounted to “sabotage.”

    Rogozin, who oversees the defense and aerospace sectors, said two key instructions regarding construction of the cosmodrome had been issued, but even though one had a July 30 deadline, neither have so far been fulfilled.

    Both instructions he mentioned related to setting project construction costs and performance indicators for the site, which covers over 1,000 square kilometers (386 square miles).

    “I will view any deviation from the plan as sabotage,” Rogozin said at a meeting with representatives of agencies involved in building the cosmodrome. “I have no intention of being one of those public servants who accept failure to deliver on instructions.”

    Rogozin reminded those involved of the project’s importance, and demanded they explain the hold-ups.

    “I would like to hear the reasons why these problems arose and proposals to ensure the necessary number of specialists are involved in all stages of the construction work,” Rogozin said.

    Rogozin acknowledged the recent severe flooding in the local Amur Region recently had caused problems. “The region is currently actively battling the floods. Workers in the region will be worth their weight in gold,” he said.

    In July, five builders, aged between 25 and 50 working at the cosmodrome site were fired for illegal marijuana use, Russia’s Federal Drug Control Service said at the time.

    The space center is scheduled for completion by 2020, and is to due to make initial rocket launches as soon as 2015, Russian President Vladimir Putin said at a meeting on the space sector in April 2013.

    “The site will become a major link in Russia’s aviation and space sector and a powerful innovative center for developing the whole country and the Far East,” he said.

    Vostochny is intended to replace Baikonur in Kazakhstan as Russia’s main launch facility, although in April Putin stressed Russia’s continued commitment to Baikonur. According to space agency Roscosmos, Vostochny will host 45 percent of Russia’s space launches and all its manned flights from 2020, while Baikonur’s share will fall from 65 percent to 11 percent, with the remainder going to Plesetsk in Russia’s far north.

    Russia and Kazakhstan have been in dispute in recent years over the amount Russian pays for use of the site, prompting Astana to limit the number of rockets Russia launches from it.

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:21 am

    George1 wrote:Russian Space Center Delays ‘Sabotage’ – Official

    MOSCOW, August 21 (RIA Novosti) – Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin slammed the slow progress of construction at Russia’s Vostochny cosmodrome during a visit to the facility Wednesday, saying the delays amounted to “sabotage.”

    Rogozin, who oversees the defense and aerospace sectors, said two key instructions regarding construction of the cosmodrome had been issued, but even though one had a July 30 deadline, neither have so far been fulfilled.

    Both instructions he mentioned related to setting project construction costs and performance indicators for the site, which covers over 1,000 square kilometers (386 square miles).

    “I will view any deviation from the plan as sabotage,” Rogozin said at a meeting with representatives of agencies involved in building the cosmodrome. “I have no intention of being one of those public servants who accept failure to deliver on instructions.”

    Rogozin reminded those involved of the project’s importance, and demanded they explain the hold-ups.

    “I would like to hear the reasons why these problems arose and proposals to ensure the necessary number of specialists are involved in all stages of the construction work,” Rogozin said.

    Rogozin acknowledged the recent severe flooding in the local Amur Region recently had caused problems. “The region is currently actively battling the floods. Workers in the region will be worth their weight in gold,” he said.

    In July, five builders, aged between 25 and 50 working at the cosmodrome site were fired for illegal marijuana use, Russia’s Federal Drug Control Service said at the time.

    The space center is scheduled for completion by 2020, and is to due to make initial rocket launches as soon as 2015, Russian President Vladimir Putin said at a meeting on the space sector in April 2013.

    “The site will become a major link in Russia’s aviation and space sector and a powerful innovative center for developing the whole country and the Far East,” he said.

    Vostochny is intended to replace Baikonur in Kazakhstan as Russia’s main launch facility, although in April Putin stressed Russia’s continued commitment to Baikonur. According to space agency Roscosmos, Vostochny will host 45 percent of Russia’s space launches and all its manned flights from 2020, while Baikonur’s share will fall from 65 percent to 11 percent, with the remainder going to Plesetsk in Russia’s far north.

    Russia and Kazakhstan have been in dispute in recent years over the amount Russian pays for use of the site, prompting Astana to limit the number of rockets Russia launches from it.
    Hahaha this guy is gold.

    Now let's see him do something as opposed to talking all the time.

    If his attempted ass-chewing actually has an effect though and straightens things out; well then at least that's something.

    coolieno99
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 136
    Points : 159
    Join date : 2010-08-25

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  coolieno99 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:51 am

    the RD-170 is one impressive rocket engine

    With 20 million horsepower output, the Soviet-era RD-170 was about 5 percent more powerful, yet 1.5 times smaller, than American’s F-1 first stage rocket engine made for the Saturn V booster of the Apollo lunar program.

    Reportedly, when the Energia booster with the Buran space shuttle was launched in November 1988, the massive concrete bays paving the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan were flying around like dry leaves, due to the immense power coming from the four RD-170 engines, which blasted the 2,400-ton rocket booster into space.  


    http://rt.com/news/russian-rocket-engine-ban-039/

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:23 pm


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:23 pm