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    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

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    GarryB
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:20 pm

    The main problem for India is the requirement to have the BMP-3 swim. The meaning of that is 25 ton vehicle that can’t have a good protection.


    The BMP-3 is an 18 ton vehicle, it is the new Kurganets-25 and Boomerang-25 that will be 25 ton vehicles.

    The main issue with the BMP-3 is balance... heavy frontal armour plus a very heavy turret meant the engine had to be move to the rear to stop it nose diving in the water. This meant that a standard rear exit is not easy with the BMP-3. The Soviets know rear exits are best... the BMP-1 and BMP-2 both have rear exit doors, but with the engine in the rear the BMP-3 have a series of doors and roof hatches so the troops can climb over the engine to exit the rear of the vehicle.

    There is nothing impossible about making a 25 ton vehicle amphibious and having good armour... that is what the Russians are trying to do with the Kurganets and the heavy boomerang, but they are using lighter and more expensive and exotic materials in the armour to let them do that... potentially using new plastics and other materials.

    I think that the 2 project that India has developed, the weapon carrier (tank destroyer) called NAMICA and an AIFV known as Abhai, are close to my way of thinking.

    While vulnerable a small squad of troops with your armoured vehicle make it more flexible and safer.

    Your idea of two vehicles has a lot of merit, an APC model with a heavy machinegun turret and perhaps a few ATGMs for hitting point targets makes sense especially if fitted with a gun stabiliser and modern thermals to allow useful fire support for the dismounted infantry.
    The IFV model with extra ammo would be interesting too, though I would probably go with a crew of 5, but I would move the front two gunners either side of the driver to the rear and mount low flat turrets to the front and rear hull mounting a single PKT machine gun and a 40mm automatic grenade launcher like the Balkan. I would design it so that the top of the front and rear turret are level with the hull roof so they don't interfere with the main turret and each turret has a wide field of fire with one turret on the front facing forward and one on the rear facing backwards with night and all weather optics mounted on them. This would mean that the vehicle could deal with attacks from front and sides with the front turret, the rear and sides with the rear turret and any direction with the main turret so any attack should result in at least two gunners being able to engage... in fact an attack from the side could result in all three turrets engaging.

    The bow gun positions limits them to targets in front of the vehicle over fairly narrow arcs.


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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  AJ-47 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:35 am



    This is the only pic I could find for the BMP-3 IWS
    We can see that the engine move to the front, and the turret move to the back, and the 2 agl-30mm are not there anymore.
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:34 am

    Thanks for posting that picture... had not seen that before.

    Regarding the APC model with the HMG armament I actually think that right now a useful weapon would be the KPB, which is a KPV HMG but with the barrel changed to fire the 23 x 115mm ammo used in aircraft.

    The 14.5 x 114mm round is a very powerful round that could be developed to have a very useful SLAP type round and it is large enough in calibre to carry a useful payload of explosive.

    The 23mm calibre round is similar in size and would not take up much more space in internal ammo stores yet would be able to deliver a much heavier HE payload to the target. Equally the larger calibre barrel would allow a much more powerful powder charge to be used with an APFSDS round that will be even more effective in terms of armour piercing capability than the 14,5mm round.

    The KPB and the KPV are very similar weapons and could use the same mounts and equipment.

    This is obviously more interesting to the Russians than the Indians as a change from the widespread use of 14.5mm HMGs to a more powerful but very similar 23mm round would be a cheap way to increase firepower at low cost, but certainly India could equally benefit from the increased firepower.

    The result for an India APC would be a light cannon the size and weight of a HMG yet with the HE power approaching a 30mm cannon.


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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  AJ-47 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:45 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]

    The BMP-3 is an 18 ton vehicle, it is the new Kurganets-25 and Boomerang-25 that will be 25 ton vehicles.
    The figure of 25 ton come from the Kurganets, if they can swim with 25 ton, the BMP-3M can swim too.
    The upgrade BMP-3M with his add on armour, (that can protect the side of the vehicle from 0.5” bullets) and with ERA, I guess the 25 ton is in reach.

    The main issue with the BMP-3 is balance... heavy frontal armour plus a very heavy turret meant the engine had to be move to the rear to stop it nose diving in the water. This meant that a standard rear exit is not easy with the BMP-3. The Soviets know rear exits are best... the BMP-1 and BMP-2 both have rear exit doors, but with the engine in the rear the BMP-3 have a series of doors and roof hatches so the troops can climb over the engine to exit the rear of the vehicle.
    As for the rear door, I would like to remain you that Israel use the T-54/55 as an H-APC and they swing the engine 90 degrees, make a rear exit door, make a corridor between the engine and the side, so the soldiers can get out from this back door. Maybe can be done in the BMP-3 too.


    There is nothing impossible about making a 25 ton vehicle amphibious and having good armour... that is what the Russians are trying to do with the Kurganets and the heavy boomerang, but they are using lighter and more expensive and exotic materials in the armour to let them do that... potentially using new plastics and other materials.
    Maybe, but Russia get the Armta Brigade that weight double than the Kurganets

    While vulnerable a small squad of troops with your armoured vehicle make it more flexible and safer.
    Your idea of two vehicles has a lot of merit, an APC model with a heavy machinegun turret and perhaps a few ATGMs for hitting point targets makes sense especially if fitted with a gun stabiliser and modern thermals to allow useful fire support for the dismounted infantry.
    You can see from the picture below that this turret is perfect for the APC. If we will change the 30mm to 14.5mm HMG or 23/115 as you said on one hand, and replace 2 of the ATGM with 2 packs of four 80mm rockets, which will make it perfect. The American has the same idea.

    70mm rockets on pylon for the Hellfire.


    The Klevir turret.
    The IFV model with extra ammo would be interesting too, though I would probably go with a crew of 5, but I would move the front two gunners either side of the driver to the rear and mount low flat turrets to the front and rear hull mounting a single PKT machine gun and a 40mm automatic grenade launcher like the Balkan. I would design it so that the top of the front and rear turret are level with the hull roof so they don't interfere with the main turret and each turret has a wide field of fire with one turret on the front facing forward and one on the rear facing backwards with night and all weather optics mounted on them. This would mean that the vehicle could deal with attacks from front and sides with the front turret, the rear and sides with the rear turret and any direction with the main turret so any attack should result in at least two gunners being able to engage... in fact an attack from the side could result in all three turrets engaging.
    The bow gun positions limits them to targets in front of the vehicle over fairly narrow arcs.
    The IFV it’s more complicated issue, in my understanding the IFVs is the replacement for tanks in the infantry units. For that it needs firepower and the combo turret of the BMP-3 look to me as the right answer for now.
    I guess some were in the line, the 100mm might be replaced by 120 gun/mortar unit, and maybe the whole turret will be replace with 57mm, ( I prefer 57mm than 45mm gun, because it has more potential) with 14.5mm coaxial, will do the job of the 100mm and the 30mm guns.
    As for the second turrets, I think one extra turret in a RWS configuration will be enough, the IFV don’t go by itself, and there will be enough IFVs around that will look for each other and all around.
    The questions I have are;
    1. Were to install it? You can put it on top of the main turret, or at the back of vehicle to separate the two turrets in case one gets hit.
    2. What kind of weapons to install in them?
    The main objectives of the RWS will be, soldiers, soldiers on top story buildings, open area, basically to defend the vehicle from RPGs. For that we need 7.62mm MG and the GSH -23mm gun or the GSH-30-2K. I think the 30mm has advantage if it can shoot program rounds, and because of better effect on the target.


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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:56 am

    The figure of 25 ton come from the Kurganets, if they can swim with 25 ton, the BMP-3M can swim too.

    A 100,000 ton Carrier can also float, the problem is buoyancy.

    The BMP-3M is an 18 ton vehicle. If you add 7 tons to its weight without changing its volume then it will likely no longer remain buoyant and sink. Even if you retain buoyancy, if you get the balance wrong it can still be unsafe in water.

    The problem is adding weight to improve protection while maintaining its balance and its buoyancy... clearly the Russians decided it was much easier to start from scratch with the Kurganets-25 than to try to modify the design, which is not to say it is not possible of course. Smile

    The upgrade BMP-3M with his add on armour, (that can protect the side of the vehicle from 0.5” bullets) and with ERA, I guess the 25 ton is in reach.

    Adding large bulky add on armour packages with spaced armour made of synthetic materials and you could possible get to 25 tons in weight and have a vehicle that is more buoyant than an 18 ton BMP-3M. A simple armour improvement could be a small trailer that the vehicle pushes in front of it with mesh chain that defeats ATGMs and destabilises projectiles from the front... you could store food or fuel or ammo in it, it could be designed with an enormous air chamber in it so it floats and attach it with rigid armours to the front hull to move the buoyancy centre to the rear of the vehicle without reducing the thickness of the frontal armour and perhaps even moving the engine to the front of the vehicle... it could even double as a mine roller/anti IED system.

    As for the rear door, I would like to remain you that Israel use the T-54/55 as an H-APC and they swing the engine 90 degrees, make a rear exit door, make a corridor between the engine and the side, so the soldiers can get out from this back door. Maybe can be done in the BMP-3 too.

    With the BMP-3M it would probably just be easier to move the engine. With the armata the APC and IFV models will have the engine mounted in the front so it wont be an issue and the boomerang and kurganets the engine will also be in the front.

    Maybe, but Russia get the Armta Brigade that weight double than the Kurganets

    Armata will not be amphibious, it will likely snorkel.

    You can see from the picture below that this turret is perfect for the APC. If we will change the 30mm to 14.5mm HMG or 23/115 as you said on one hand, and replace 2 of the ATGM with 2 packs of four 80mm rockets, which will make it perfect. The American has the same idea.

    Not sure about the value of the rockets... would think having 4 guided missiles like Kornet-EM would be more useful than unguided rockets.

    The IFV it’s more complicated issue, in my understanding the IFVs is the replacement for tanks in the infantry units. For that it needs firepower and the combo turret of the BMP-3 look to me as the right answer for now.

    Russian brigades wont have infantry units as such... there is the motor rifle brigade that has 3 regiments of IFVs but 1 or 2 regiments of MBTs, and a tank brigade which has 3 regiments of MBTs and one regiment of IFVs or APCs... in other words tanks work with infantry, so in cases where infantry is needed it still has some tanks to get the job done, while jobs that need tanks still have infantry supporting them.

    I guess some were in the line, the 100mm might be replaced by 120 gun/mortar unit, and maybe the whole turret will be replace with 57mm, ( I prefer 57mm than 45mm gun, because it has more potential) with 14.5mm coaxial, will do the job of the 100mm and the 30mm guns.

    Regarding ammo I am torn because the 45mm is a modern telescoped case round that is compact and powerful, but the 57mm round has more space for guided shells. The 57mm round is huge and would take up an enormous amount of internal space in any vehicle.

    I think a telescoped case 57mm round should be developed as the best compromise... especially if it can be necked out to a 65mm round in the future to cope with enemy increases in vehicle protection.

    2. What kind of weapons to install in them?
    The main objectives of the RWS will be, soldiers, soldiers on top story buildings, open area, basically to defend the vehicle from RPGs. For that we need 7.62mm MG and the GSH -23mm gun or the GSH-30-2K. I think the 30mm has advantage if it can shoot program rounds, and because of better effect on the target.

    The mounts will be relatively simple and small so I personally would go with a combination of a PKT and a Balkan 40mm grenade launcher. Both are slim compact weapons that are relatively short, yet should offer decent fire power out to about 1,800m for the PKT and 2,500m for the Balkan.
    Against human targets the 30 cal bullet and 40mm grenade would be thoroughly effective especially against point and area targets respectively.




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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:48 pm

    Does anyone know the max. engagement range of the BMP-3s ATGM?

    Many say 4km, others say 5.5km, i am not sure who to believe. dunno

    Also i have heard many complaint about crew comfort, but i have yet to find any photos of the BMP-3s crew compartment. study
    In short just what are these "comfort problems" they are complaining about? scratch

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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:40 am

    http://kbptula.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100&Itemid=402&lang=en

    Beside the image of the turret there is a link that says "ammo load of increased power and fire range". If you click on that it shows the new missile has a range of up to 5.5km.

    Regarding comfort, most IFVs are cramped and dusty and usually too hot, and the BMP-3 is no different.

    I remember reading a comment about a British vehicle called an FV432 which looks a lot like a British M113 except it is steel rather than aluminium.
    The British commentator stated that if you stay in the vehicle you will be killed anyway, so that lack of comfort means you will be more willing to get out of it in combat which makes them much safer.

    I rather think that holds true with the BMP-3 as well.


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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:36 pm





    AlfaT8 wrote:Does anyone know the max. engagement range of the BMP-3s ATGM?

    Many say 4km, others say 5.5km, i am not sure who to believe. dunno

    Also i have heard many complaint about crew comfort, but i have yet to find any photos of the BMP-3s crew compartment. study
    In short just what are these "comfort problems" they are complaining about? scratch




    You can believe in both versions.....simply because them refer to completely different missiles for different versions of BMP-3.

    The first is 9M117 missile for early BMP-3 models ,it had an effective engagement range of 4 km and a penetration potential of 500/550 mm RHA with unitary warhead; was possible to shot up to 2 of them at minute .

    Arkhan missile [ 9M117M1 ] for latest BMP-3 version ,instead has an effective engagement range of 5,5 km and a penetration potential of 750 mm RHA with tandem warhead to deal with early versions of ERA; is now possible to shot up to 4 of them at minute .
    See this video at 5:04




    "Arkhan" is also significantly faster than 9M117 and has a redesigned fuse for close-miss destruction of enemy helicopters/low flying CAS aircraft and UAVs.



    Those enhancements to the gun launched missiles was primarily aimed at maintain a reasonable stand-off range advantage over the most advanced BGM-71/HOT ATGM versions available at the time (representing also the ATGMs with the longest engagement range available to western mechanized/infantry forces) allowing so the destruction of bunker or semi-hardened infantry defensive positions and M2/M3 IFVs and M1134 AT vehicles from outside theirs maximum engagement range.


    To deal with the less dangerous man-portable battlefield ATGMs ,such as MILAN /M-47 "Dragon" or the more modern FGM-104 "Javelin" and Spike-MR (usually employed ,from favorable choke-points positions, to ambush insulated MBT/IFV/APC transiting in theirs limited engagement area) BMP-3 IFV had integrated a low pressure 100 mm gun purposely designed to fire ,also indirectly, 3UOF-17 HE-Frag capable to eliminate at the root the menace literally saturating possible ambush points .

    BMP-3M employ the greatly improved 3UOF-19 round, with 7 km of effective engagement range, overhead detonation capability, almost double radius of assured kill and supersonic speed (important to don't concede to enemy ATGM operators any clue to being under attack); this round with the new unified battlefield data network allow coordinated saturation of intended area by part of several BMP-3Ms.





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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:23 pm

    Very impressive. Twisted Evil

    I must ask though, how many BMP-3s and 3Ms are currently in Russian service? study

    And concerning India, what are the major differences between the domestic BMP-3/3Ms and the exported ones? scratch


    Last edited by AlfaT8 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:40 pm

    Probably only about 700-800 in Russian service... a few hundred more in former Soviet armies they inherited before the breakup.

    It is most likely that rather than produce a lot more BMP-3 or BMP-3Ms that they will upgrade existing BMP-3s and BMP-2s with new optics and electronics and improved weapons till the Kurganets-25 is ready.

    Indeed they will likely actually have a bit of a change too... previously the IFV BMP was the heavy tracked troop transport that was expensive but better armoured and armed and more mobile cross country than the APC BTR series. The BTR were faster in places with good road networks and generally had a reasonable cross country mobility, but armour and armament and sensors were lighter/simpler and they were much much cheaper both to buy and to operate.

    With the new vehicle families the Boomerang-25 will likely have comparable armour and firepower to the Kurganets-25 as it is in the same weight class and will have a unified sensor/weapon/electronic suite... this means that the wheeled vehicles will offer the same protection and firepower, yet be cheaper to buy and operate, which likely means there will be far more Boomerang-25s than Kurganets-25s.

    For some roles having tracks is very important, but in many cases wheels are actually better... like driving on roads and in terms of mine resistence and in terms of costs wheels are much cheaper and simpler to buy and to operate.


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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:42 am

    800 is a reaaaally high estimate, real number is probably closer to 500-550.

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-174.html
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:24 am

    Hey... just an estimate.

    I will admit I didn't count their engine numbers but I doubt he was expecting that... the Army has BMP-3 IFVs, they also have a significant number of BMP-3 based vehicles and the naval infantry likely have a few vehicles as well... 700-800 is an estimate... an estimate that shows there are not tens of thousands but also there is not just a dozen in service.

    And concerning India, what are the major differences between the domestic BMP-3/3Ms and the exported ones?

    The BMP-3 has gone through several changes including a significant increase in performance of its weapons. Early model BMP-3s had their laser rangefinder/target marker mounted in an external box on the main gun, while later production models moved these optics/electronics inside the turret.

    Early model ammo required a redesign because the off centre 100mm gun often damaged the turret ring so the mounting was improved.
    New more powerful ammo resulted in an increase in effective range of the 100mm shells from 4km to 7km, and new optics improved vision dramatically.


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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:21 am

    Quick question:
    What is the level of armor protecting of the BMP-3, all i know is that the Frontal arc can withstand 30-35mm rounds what about the rest, and is there a difference between the 3 and 3M model?? scratch
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  TR1 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:43 am

    http://www.kurganmash.ru/en/machines/bmp3u/protection/shield/

    The up armored BMP-3 according to Kurganmash protects from 12.7 AP, from 50 meters.

    So we can safely conclude that standard BMP-3 side hull protects from assault rifle fire.
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    India Armed forces numbers

    Post  henriksoder on Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:58 am

    Hello

    I want to discuss the India Armed Forces strength. In my mind it kind of seems like a very important and strong military power in the world. According to my sorces they got like at least one million soldiers with reservs troops and that kind of seems like a huge amount but China must have almost two million with reserve troops (just look at the countries population). What can India do with their huge amount of soldiers, I guess that they carry very bad equipment and are not good organized or trained and dosen't have the military force to obtain a strong military power. I think India should continue to grow their military budget with the country economic progress. Like get more useful active soldiers in the sense that they must be better equipped, trained and organized to face a superior enemy.

    I mean, they got alot of aircrafts, like 1745 aircrafts and two carriars which carry aircrafts, and that is pretty strong. I think India should focus on maintaining one carriar each on the two differents costs of India and obtain a strong air force from the main land in order to obtain a strong air space and a strong military offensive and defensive. The army should reform in order to maintain a strong military power in India and across their borders. India should work for a prosper economic development in India and for a free, prosper and peaceful world where human lives is respected and sustatined and where economic and human progress is insured. I read somewhere that India carry like 7000 tanks or something, but I dont know if that it's true, becouse then India tank force is almost the same in amount as US. How strong is India mark force, for example the tank force? India should focus on develop their military and gain neccesarry military equipment and a stronger and more effectful defense.

    What is your opinion about the India armed forces? Duties in the world or their military strength or other exciting facts or opinions about India armed forces?

    /Henrik
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  max steel on Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:31 am

    Wow wow affraid . Stop it there bounce . They might be carrying old equipment but it's baseless to say that they are not good organized or trained .

    An Indian Army team has won the gold medal in the prestigious Cambrian Patrol held in the UK beating more than 140 participants in 2014 .

    Exercise Cambrian Patrol is an annual international military patrolling event that makes its participating units cover a 80km course in less than 48 hours while performing numerous types of military exercises placed throughout the rugged Cambrian Mountains and swamp lands of mid-Wales in UK.


    Yup India isn't in a position to project a global military power . by the way we had enough with murican miliary empire . In this multipolar era we don't need a single nation stretching its military unncessarily invading and murdering others .


    http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/indian-army-team-wins-gold-medal-at-a-prestigious-event-in-uk-114102800902_1.html
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  dberwal on Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:02 pm

    henriksoder wrote:Hello

    I want to discuss the India Armed Forces strength. In my mind it kind of seems like a very important and strong military power in the world. According to my sorces they got like at least one million soldiers with reservs troops and that kind of seems like a huge amount but China must have almost two million with reserve troops (just look at the countries population). What can India do with their huge amount of soldiers, I guess that they carry very bad equipment and are not good organized or trained and dosen't have the military force to obtain a strong military power. I think India should continue to grow their military budget with the country economic progress. Like get more useful active soldiers in the sense that they must be better equipped, trained and organized to face a superior enemy.
    IA is very well trained and completely volunteer force against conscription.
    Equipment is not bad but not what best money can buy.

    India has never been a aggressor country in last 5000+ years of existence. That is the only reason we dont send our army to foreign land to fight. Look at the history of WW1 and WW2.

    Indian troops were the largest contingent from a single country (leaving aside US and Russia)
    Allies won these war on our blood and don't have the shame to even acknowledge this part of history.

    IA runs the premier Counter-Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School (CIJW) training facility in the world. CIJW was established in 1967 as the Jungle Training School. The current name is there from 1970.

    This facility was open for other countries in 2001 and 3 US officers were the first to be trained here.
    Most of the countries who have started such training facility have first trained in India and learned from it. US/UK/French/Italy/Isreal..... are some countries who avail of these training facility.

    Another one:
    The High Altitude Warfare School (HAWS) is a training and research establishment of the Indian Army. In 1948, Indian Army established a ski school in Gulmarg which later became the High Altitude Warfare School of the Indian army specializing in snow–craft and winter warfare. this st approx 2700 meter (9000 feet)

    The Indian Army is among the most experienced and best trained in mountain warfare having fought numerous conflicts in the Himalayan mountain territories, at altitudes over 6000 meters (20,000 feet) and at temperatures as low as -50 Celsius. Given the extensive experience of the Indian Army in mountain warfare, troops from other nations regularly train and conduct joint exercises at these schools. Because of its experience in fighting wars in mountain regions for over 50 years. Indian Mountain Warfare Units are considered among the best in the world. Numerous army units across the world are now implementing training modules modeled after Indian Mountain Warfare training systems, these include US, UK, Russia


    I mean, they got alot of aircrafts, like 1745 aircrafts and two carriars which carry aircrafts, and that is pretty strong. I think India should focus on maintaining one carriar each on the two differents costs of India and obtain a strong air force from the main land in order to obtain a strong air space and a strong military offensive and defensive. The army should reform in order to maintain a strong military power in India and across their borders. India should work for a prosper economic development in India and for a free, prosper and peaceful world where human lives is respected and sustatined and where economic and human progress is insured. I read somewhere that India carry like 7000 tanks or something, but I dont know if that it's true, becouse then India tank force is almost the same in amount as US. How strong is India mark force, for example the tank force? India should focus on develop their military and gain neccesarry military equipment and a stronger and more effectful defense.

    What is your opinion about the India armed forces? Duties in the world or their military strength or other exciting facts or opinions about India armed forces?

    /Henrik

    Indian is like a sleeping elephant or tiger, Indian dont have a conqueror mentality as the 5000+ year history has shown but if put to a corner it can surely take care of itself.

    Well looking at how world politics is developing 3-5 carrier force for Navy is what we are likely to see in next 20years (1 is operational, 1 under construction - induction in 3years and 1 just about to start construction)
    - Plus IN is interested in 40000 Ton LDP's ( likely to see 2-3 in next 5-7 yrs)

    Tanks are more likely like 3800+ or so.

    I don't believe we have any desire in policing world like US.
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:29 pm

    Nice work dbrewal but Indian army is lacking in high tech and high precision warfare kits and gears . We don't even posses enough ammunition to fight a month long war . corruption again is a issue in indian defense at political level , have no idea whether it's among high rank officials also .
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:25 pm

    max steel wrote:Nice work dbrewal but Indian army is lacking in high tech and high precision warfare kits and gears . We don't even posses enough ammunition to fight a month long war . corruption again is a issue in indian defense at political level , have no idea whether it's among high rank officials also .

    There is. My brother in law is in Indian air force. I hear of interesting stories. But that doesn't mean all.

    Problem with India is that due to being a major arms importer, they have to rely on someone else. It is getting silly too on the mass amounts of differences on guns and systems used in India that just makes it hard on logistics and such (Tejas aircraft, MiG-29, Su-30, Rafale) and now trying to field two other tanks. I imagine it is a nightmare logistically and making sure you got enough munitions that work with each system.

    Subsystems for plenty of stuff is made in India. Dunno where they get components though, probably Israel.
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  dberwal on Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:46 pm

    max steel wrote:Nice work dbrewal but Indian army is lacking in high tech and high precision warfare kits and gears . We don't even posses enough ammunition to fight a month long war . corruption again is a issue in indian defense at political level , have no idea whether it's among high rank officials also .

    we are able to buy what we can afford... rest we are developing (no other way out)

    tell me which other country other than India publishes such statistics as ammo reserves to fight a full scale war?

    well tell me which country is not subject to corruption?

    Well corruption by nature once come in spreads its wings all over. Corruption is the parting gift Britishers gave us.

    Indian Politics today is highly corrupt 10:1 ratio, But the change in leadership last year has revived hopes!!

    Even Indian urban society is corrupt at a ration of 10:1

    Indian defense force still by luck or chance are opposite of this ratio.

    My personal views are that the current form of democracy as advertised by west is the cause of corruption.

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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  aksha on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:48 am

    Army zeroes in on Made in India rifles to replace INSAS
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/assault-rifle-excalibur-drdo-dalbir-singh-indian-army-arde/1/449238.html
    The performance of the DRDO-designed 'Excalibur' assault rifle in trials last month at the Armament Research and Development Establishment in Pune has further enthused the Army.



    The Indian Army has decided to go for an indigenous assault rifle to replace the problematic INSAS rifles. The decision that could save thousands of crores in foreign exchange and boost local manufacture was taken recently by Army Chief General Dalbir Singh. The Army then cancelled a problematic Rs 4,848 crore order for importing Multi Caliber Assault Rifles on June 15-first reported by Mail Today on July 1.

    "We are going in for a designed and Made in India rifle in keeping with the government's indigenisation thrusts," senior Army sources told Mail Today.

    The performance of the DRDO-designed 'Excalibur' assault rifle in trials last month at the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) in Pune has further enthused the Army. The Excalibur had only two stoppages (where the bullet gets stuck in the breech) after 24,000 rounds were fired, close to the Army's specifications of only one stoppage.




    New features

    The Excalibur is an improved version of the INSAS rifle and fires 5.56x45 mm ammunition. It has full-automatic capability over the INSAS which can only fire a three-round burst. The Excalibur barrel is shorter by 4 mm, has a side folding butt stock and features a Picatinny rail, a universal mount that allows a range of weapon sights and sensors to be fitted on the rifle.

    DRDO officials say it will take the OFB's Rifle Factory Ishapore at least eight months to incorporate design changes suggested by the ARDE and field the first prototypes of what they are calling the 'Modified INSAS Rifle' (MIR). Changes suggested after trials include a smaller handguard and improved polycarbonate magazine.

    If the Excalibur/MIR clears trials, it could be in the hands of infantry soldiers within two years, DRDO officials say. The DRDO is designing a second version of the Excalibur, the AR-2 that fires 7.62x39 mm rounds used by AK-47. The AR-2 will be offered as an alternative to the Russianorigin assault rifle.

    The Army's 2011 tender was for a Multi Caliber Assault Rifle or for a weapon that could fire INSAS and AK-47 ammunition with a barrel change.

    Five international firms - Beretta of Italy, Israeli Weapons Industries (IWI), Colt Defense of the US, Ceska Zbplojovka of Czech Republic and SiG Sauer of Switzerland-were shortlisted for the trials.

    However, Army officials now admit the specifications were poorly drafted and unrealistic.
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  Book. on Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:55 pm

    Indian Company Reveals UAV Partnership with AeroVironment
    by Neelam Mathews - August 5, 2015, 9:32 AM

    Bangalore, India-based Dynamatic Technologies is co-developing a new generation lightweight unmanned aerial system (UAS) with AeroVironment of the U.S. It is named the Cheel (Hindi for Eagle) and will be based on AeroVironment’s proven expertise, with the design evolving from the 5 kg Raven and 12 kg Puma UAS. The project is one of the six “pathfinder projects” identified under the U.S.-India Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) earlier this year.

    “The first Cheel will fly eleven months after formal approval,” Udayant Malhoutra, Dynamatic CEO and managing director told AIN. The Indian company is already a supplier to Airbus, Bell and Boeing and has built an advanced avionics and communications laboratory; payload development facility; composites facility; and an assembly and testing facility for small UAS in Bangalore.

    Denying recent media reports that the Indian Army had rejected the Raven, Malhoutra said that the Cheel would be different from the Raven. “It has a different signature incorporating the engineering capability of Dynamatic,” he said. Tom Cunningham, AeroVironment’'s vice president for strategic partnerships, said last February at the Bangalore airshow: “We’re going to take the form factor of Raven and add some features of Puma. We’re moving the propeller forward…it will fly higher with longer wings, and be easy to launch.” AIN understands that the Cheel will have solar power from wing panels, a development that is foreseen for the Puma on AeroVironment’s website.

    The Puma is designed for land-based and maritime operations and the Cheel similarly be capable of landing in water or on land. It will also have the Puma’s precision navigation system with secondary GPS, which provides greater positional accuracy and reliability. The Cheel will be operated from a ground control station (GCS) that is compatible with all AeroVironment’s tactical ISR UAS. Dynamatic has conducted a number of trials of these UAS in mountainous, desert and jungle terrain along with homeland security-related forces, to check vagaries of the environment and to evaluate the needs of users. The Indian company was also involved in a U.S.-India exercise using the Raven UAS.

    While the Cheel is the designated project under the DTTI, “the partnership with AeroVironment is for a family of UAS…[we will] create variants that offer a range of capabilities,” said Malhoutra. The partnership is exclusive. On the possibility of extending it to the Global Observer high-altitude long-endurance UAS being developed by AeroVironment, Malhoutra said, “Potentially we can work on anything. There has to be business rationale for both [companies].”

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2015-08-05/indian-company-reveals-uav-partnership-aerovironment

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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  Book. on Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:26 am

    Focus on Hypersonic Reusable Cruise Missile, Says Scientist
    By Express News Service Published: 09th August 2015 03:31 AM

    VISAKHAPATNAM: After developing various versions of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, Indian scientists are focusing on developing a hypersonic reusable cruise missile which is first of its kind in the world, revealed BrahMos Aerospace founder and DRDO former chief controller (Research and development) A Sivathanu Pillai. He said that the idea of reusable cruise missile development was an inspiration from the Mahabharath, particularly Lord Krishna’s Sudharshan Chakra. Like Sudarshan Chakra, the hypersonic cruise missile will destroy the target with pin-point accuracy and fly back to the base for multiple use, he added.

    Sivathanu Pillai was conferred with the GITAM Foundation Award by GITAM president MVVS Murthi during the 35th Foundation Day celebrations of GITAM University here Saturday.

    Addressing the gathering on the occasion, Pillai shared his association with former President and fellow scientist APJ Abdul Kalam who passed away recently. “Kalam wanted to convert the SLV-3 into a missile, but the then ISRO chairman Satish Dhawan, wanted to keep ISRO away from missile development as it might affect the international cooperation that the ISRO had with many countries. But Kalam’s mind was always revolving around developing a re-entry class of missile,” he explained while talking about the origins of missile technology in India. Pillai recalled that after successful SLV-3 mission, Kalam succeeded in the missile project at DRDO through the formulation of the Re-entry Experiment (REX) which, much later, became Agni.

    Pillai said that the growth of the technology level in advanced areas closer to the developed countries, has made India a nation of strength, winning it respect world-wide. He felt that BrahMos had established a global leadership for India. He suggested that Indian universities and educational systems should create two cadres of personnel particularly creating a global cadre of skilled youth with specific knowledge of special skills and another global cadre of youth focusing on research and innovation. “These two cadres could be utilised not only for powering the manufacturing and services sectors of India, but also fulfill the human resource requirements of various countries,” he added.

    The founder of BrahMos Space felt that the country’s prosperity is powered by technology, which comes out of research and innovations. “If we are expected to achieve results which have been never before accomplished, we must employ methods which have been never before attempted, but with utmost honesty,” he opined.

    On the occasion, Sivathanu Pillai presented the GITAM University Best Teacher awards to MRS Satyanarayana, K Manjusree Naidu, R Ventakateswarlu, MV Lakshmi, M Rama Rao, L Srinivas, K Mohan, B Nalini and Best Supporting Staff awards to T Sridhar, O Tata Rao, and Shaik Hussain. GITAM vice-president M Gangadhara Rao, vice-chancellor G Subrahmanyam, pro vice-chancellor D Harinarayana, registrar M Potharaju and others participated in the programme.

    http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra_pradesh/Focus-on-Hypersonic-Reusable-Cruise-Missile-Says-Scientist/2015/08/09/article2965112.ece

    it can be good idea study
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  Book. on Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:51 am

    Army for modular design concept for tanks
    New Delhi: August 11, 2015, DHNS

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/494578/army-modular-design-concept-tanks.html

    Indian Army will not drop its modular design concept for the next generation main battle tanks, notwithstanding the criticism from the industry. The modular design, claims the Army, would allow subsequent development of 10 different variants of the tanks including light weight tanks, armoured recovery vehicles and trawls among others.

    The Directorate-General of Mechanised Forces recently issued a request for information to the tank designers from all over the world to participate in designing the future ready combat vehicle that seeks to replace the ageing T-72 fleet. Though the concept received criticism within the industry, the army defended the proposal. “The FRCV will be a combat vehicle platform which will form the base for developing a family of vehicles,” said a statement issued by the Army.


    The RFI does not give out the detailed parameters of the FRCV. These will be given to the agencies shortlisted for the design competition. The brief description of the FRCV, given out as part of the RFI, is only to give a very rough idea of what the product is likely to be, it adds. Indian Army began inducting the Russian origin T-72 tanks in the late 1970s. Since most of these tanks don’t have night vision and is based on outdated technology, a search is on for advanced main battle tanks as DRDO’s Arjun is not up to the mark.

    The Indian Army currently relies on the modern T-90 tanks that came from Russia in the 1990s. The FRCV for a design competition to identify innovative design options, which will form the base for a combat vehicle platform. It is planned to subsequently develop other need-based variants on this platform, if found suitable.

    “These platforms are to meet the futuristic requirements of the services beyond 2027 and are not in conflict with the current MBT Arjun Programme and its future orders,” Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in the Parliament.

    Two armoured regiments of MBT Arjun Mk-I have been raised and operationalised. Out of total indented quantity of 124 Arjun Mk-I tanks, as many as 122 indigenous tanks have been produced and inducted into Army. However, these tanks are used mostly in the desert regions as the terrain in Punjab and Jammu are not suitable for using the Arjuns in an operational role.

    The defence ministry has also agreed to procure 118 Arjun Mk-II, when it is finally ready.

    DH News Service


    India Heavy Vehicle Factory the T-90S producion line

    Only lite tank future
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    Re: Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:55 am

    Indian version of Armata ? Question Question Idea

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