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    RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

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    Viktor

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Viktor on Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:26 pm

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    GarryB

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:21 am

    Take with a grain of salt.

    The Russians tested both the R-73 and R-27 as a rear firing AAM in the 1980s... the only modification was a fairing over the rocket engine to make it more aerodynamic to reduce drag in normal forward flight.

    When firing the missiles backwards the R-73 worked fine with its thrust vectoring engine able to hold its nose horizontal during that short initial period of flying backwards then superstall at zero speed and then accelerating rearwards towards the target... the TVC rocket motor was able to keep the seeker on target.

    With the R-27 however the large butterfly wings stalled and with no thrust vector control to keep the nose up dropped like a rock and lost lock.


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    Viktor

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Viktor on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:51 pm

    The contract was for 52 Mi-171E (from signing to delivering - 2 years Very Happy ) 


    Russia Delivers 4 Mi-171E Helicopters to China
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    Indian Flanker

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Indian Flanker on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:17 am

    Any new info about this deal? I think even if Russia wants to sell Super Flankers to China, they better sign a fully pre-paid deal of around 100 jets. Anything less than that won't be smart, IMO.
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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:20 pm

    True, but any Chinese money spent on engines or aircraft can be put into research to further improve Russian engine technology and systems.

    Ironically there are a few things that China can get a hold of that Russia can't buy legally... ironic now that Russia is a democracy and China is still communist, but it was always Russias potential to be a rival to the west that created the problem, communism was always used as an excuse.


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    TR1

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:44 am

    Indian Flanker wrote:Any new info about this deal? I think even if Russia wants to sell Super Flankers to China, they better sign a fully pre-paid deal of around 100 jets. Anything less than that won't be smart, IMO.

    They are in talks, early to talk about firm deal.

    At least 24 airframes under discussion.
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    Indian Flanker

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Indian Flanker on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:36 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Indian Flanker wrote:Any new info about this deal? I think even if Russia wants to sell Super Flankers to China, they better sign a fully pre-paid deal of around 100 jets. Anything less than that won't be smart, IMO.

    They are in talks, early to talk about firm deal.

    At least 24 airframes under discussion.
    24 airframes? That's too less, IMO. China is looking for 117-S most probably! The engine technology has became a problem area for the Chinese. Without more powerful engines J-20 and J-31 project would become redundant.

    I think India should have accepted Russia's offer of acquiring super flankers. With the word from Russia that Russia won't sell 'em to the dragon Very Happy


    Anyway, with the new PAK-FA/FGFA, I don't think IAF should be too worried about this deal. But this topic has created a lot of interest amongst Indian defence forums/enthusiasts.
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    TR1

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:52 am

    Indian Flanker wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Indian Flanker wrote:Any new info about this deal? I think even if Russia wants to sell Super Flankers to China, they better sign a fully pre-paid deal of around 100 jets. Anything less than that won't be smart, IMO.

    They are in talks, early to talk about firm deal.

    At least 24 airframes under discussion.
    24 airframes? That's too less, IMO. China is looking for 117-S most probably! The engine technology has became a problem area for the Chinese. Without more powerful engines J-20 and J-31 project would become redundant.

    I think India should have accepted Russia's offer of acquiring super flankers. With the  word from Russia that Russia won't sell 'em to the dragon Very Happy


    Anyway, with the new PAK-FA/FGFA, I don't think IAF should be too worried about this deal. But this topic has created a lot of interest amongst Indian defence forums/enthusiasts.

    117S is an export approved article. If China wanted it alone, they could just buy a big batch of the engines for probably less than 24 Su-35s cost.

    India can't be too happy about the deal, but on the other hand, back in the day China bought even bigger batches of Russian tech WHILE India was making the decision to buy Flankers.
    I think they understand business is business, and it is not like China isn't making fairly modern fighters on its own anyways.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:17 am

    dino00 wrote:I think you dont know what is a democracy.
    Communism was not an excuse for nothing, was, is, and always will be THEY biggest enemy, because if every person could see the real communism, they power will disappear in days.
     



    Downvoted your post because I didn't understand a god damn thing.
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    Indian Flanker

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Indian Flanker on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:53 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Indian Flanker wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Indian Flanker wrote:Any new info about this deal? I think even if Russia wants to sell Super Flankers to China, they better sign a fully pre-paid deal of around 100 jets. Anything less than that won't be smart, IMO.

    They are in talks, early to talk about firm deal.

    At least 24 airframes under discussion.
    24 airframes? That's too less, IMO. China is looking for 117-S most probably! The engine technology has became a problem area for the Chinese. Without more powerful engines J-20 and J-31 project would become redundant.

    I think India should have accepted Russia's offer of acquiring super flankers. With the  word from Russia that Russia won't sell 'em to the dragon Very Happy


    Anyway, with the new PAK-FA/FGFA, I don't think IAF should be too worried about this deal. But this topic has created a lot of interest amongst Indian defence forums/enthusiasts.

    117S is an export approved article. If China wanted it alone, they could just buy a big batch of the engines for probably less than 24 Su-35s cost.

    India can't be too happy about the deal, but on the other hand, back in the day China bought even bigger batches of Russian tech WHILE India was making the decision to buy Flankers.
    I think they understand business is business, and it is not like China isn't making fairly modern fighters on its own anyways.
    So, they want alot more than just new engine tech?

    Perhaps the good ol' Chinese formula of ordering a small number or stop the deal after taking delivery of a small number and reverse them down for PLAAF into something called J-15 lol1
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    TR1

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:13 am

    They wanted a small batch originally, so clearly they are interested in the fighter tech, not just engines which they could just buy secretly.
    Russia only agreed to a larger batch, so that is why they are currently negotiating.

    To be fair they have bought large batches of most weapons (even those they eventually indigenized) and they haven't exported any Flanker copies.
    I don't really have a problem with the sale, from a security perspective if they suddenly wanted to buy lets say 200 Su-35s it would be more worrying.
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    Indian Flanker

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Indian Flanker on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:14 am

    TR1 wrote:They wanted a small batch originally, so clearly they are interested in the fighter tech, not just engines which they could just buy secretly.
    Russia only agreed to a larger batch, so that is why they are currently negotiating.

    To be fair they have bought large batches of most weapons (even those they eventually indigenized) and they haven't exported any Flanker copies.
    I don't really have a problem with the sale, from a security perspective if they suddenly wanted to buy lets say 200 Su-35s it would be more worrying.
    According to some reports US has deployed a squadron of F-22 Raptor somewhere in Japan. So, perhaps the Chinese government wants to procure Su-35S to counter the stealth raptor threat.

    Anyway, even I'm not too worried about this sale. Russia has full right to sell any stuff they have developed to any country they may deem perfect. Though I also think Russia knows what is best for her and her sister India in the long term for their respective safety Very Happy

    And one more thing, once India gets the Super Sukhoi upgraded flankers, they will most likely be more advance than exported Su-35S.
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    Viktor

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Viktor on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:22 pm

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Viktor on Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:42 am

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    Werewolf

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:19 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    TR1 wrote:BTW what is that photo of?

    I don't see a copy of anything....

    I didn't get the entire picture . This is a Chinese attempt to replicate the Pantsir. As of now this is a proof of concept .

    Well i think we all see that this is for Anti Aircraft role, but what calibre is this gun?

    Does not seem practical, looks something near 80++mm.
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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Viktor on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:47 am

    Werewolf wrote:Well i think we all see that this is for Anti Aircraft role, but what calibre is this gun?

    Does not seem practical, looks something near 80++mm.

    I think its a gatling gun.
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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:06 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Well i think we all see that this is for Anti Aircraft role, but what calibre is this gun?

    Does not seem practical, looks something near 80++mm.

    I think its a gatling gun.

    I hope so but the odd design is little bit confusing.
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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:42 pm

    Sujoy wrote:One thing is for sure , as is evident from the ongoing Zuhai AirShow in China it will take China hardly any time to make Chinese copies of the SU 35 & S 400 .

    Take a look at one of the copies ( below pic ) :


    You know that engines are extremely hard to copy, and the Russian air-defense is designed to be extremely hard to reverse engineer and at best they'll only copy downgraded export items down to even a lower capability. Russia shouldn't sacrifice good relations with China over such a petty issue, and while I don't agree with China breaking the license concerning the Su-33/J-15 people also made false claims of them reselling the J-15 on the arms market, which turned out to be unsubstantiated claims.

    I know a lot of Indians are upset with any military deals between Russia and China, but why should they? If China wants to be dependent on a foreign supplier than that's their choice, it just means they're less likely to attack the country that their dependent on for logistical arms resupplying.
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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:32 am

    If that is an example of copying then it is a poor example.

    Assuming the central gun is a 30mm gatling the side mounted missiles appear to me to be Mistral MANPADS and really not in the same class as even early 1980s Tunguska let alone a modern version.

    the single gatling will be good for perhaps 3-4km range which makes the vehicle incredibly vulnerable to helicopter attack, with the missiles reaching to perhaps 6km this vehicle would be not much better than a Shilka with Igla attached to its roof like the ZSU-23-4M4 models.

    There appears to be night/all weather optics and a radar... but I am not hugely impressed.

    As shown on a recently posted video of a Tunguska malfunctioning... its twin barrel guns have a high rate of fire that generate short dense bursts that are ideal against aerial targets and in many ways replicate shotgun blasts of fire to maximise hit probability without using up too much ammo too quickly.

    this Gatling would be the same in that it would be fired in short bursts which kinda makes it overkill.

    On board a ship the gatlings make sense because some anti ship missiles have armour and it is not good enough to just hit an anti ship missile... you have to detonate its warhead well away from the ship to protect it... destroying a Granit 100m away from a ship would result in enough damage to sink the ship... 750kg of HE is a powerful explosion...

    not the same problems for land based air defence vehicles.


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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Viktor on Wed May 28, 2014 3:22 pm

    Nice  thumbsup 

    28.05.14 SU-35 WILL BE SOLD TO CHINA IN THE PACKAGE OF THE THREE WEAPONS

    Pogosyan also said that he can not disclose details of the contract. The bulk of the questions were resolved during President Putin's visit to China.

    Pogosyan said that technical talks on the two of them "nearing completion." In June, Russia is expected to visit a Chinese delegation led by head of the arms of the PLA General Xia Zhang

    " President "United Aircraft Corporation" Mikhail Pogosyan said that Russia will sell to China "package of modern weapons," which will be Su-35 anti-aircraft missile system S-400 and an unnamed type of missiles "ship-to-ship" reported today mil.news.sina.com.cn.

    Austin

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Austin on Wed May 28, 2014 5:06 pm

    Good news should be useful while dealing with US Asia Pacific Pivot  Razz 

    The unnamed anti-ship missile would be Yakohant I would guess but could be Kh-35 Upgraded version.

    Wish we could sell Brahmos to China , Would be easy for IN to jam it  Laughing
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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:52 am

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    TR1

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:54 am

    Yes. I want to gloat at the Chinabots @ Keypub really badly.

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:43 am

    TR1 wrote:Yes. I want to gloat at the Chinabots @ Keypub really badly.


     Laughing 

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    Re: RUSSIA - CHINA Military Contracts:

    Post  type055 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:16 am

    Austin wrote:Not really a false title , it has been in works for some time , both Su-35 and S-400 are of great interest and its officially confirmed as you can see if you read the news.

    The only problem is they are working on mutually acceptable IPR agreements for future defence deal , thats the only stumbling block ..... Russia wouldnt want they end up reverse engineering Su-35 or S-400 by 2020.


    yes I dont deny our engine is not good enough . but we are already put huge money in developing engine. developing an engine is a long term investment and need a lot of money . let us see next ten year what will happen . su35 a another hint China has more than 2000 J8/7 we need replace them, but we can't produce that fast.

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