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    Iron Dome Air Defense System

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    Mike E

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Mike E on Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:23 pm

    True, I basing my "confidence" in the system on the fact that hundreds of missiles have been fired, and only a few actually hit their target. It may not work against higher-tech missiles (?), but it sure does against Qassams.

    Any more opinions on the new Aero tech (from India)?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:50 am

    True, I basing my "confidence" in the system on the fact that hundreds of missiles have been fired, and only a few actually hit their target. It may not work against higher-tech missiles (?), but it sure does against Qassams.

    I want to see actual performance figures before I form an opinion on the system... how many of those rockets were going to take lives and were prevented from doing so by the interceptor missiles.

    It could be argued that the Qassams have been about as effective as the Scuds in 1991 except that one Scud hit a target and single handedly killed more Americans than any other Iraqi system in the conflict.

    Of a total of about 90 Scuds fired, 42 were fired at Israel and were directly responsible for the death of 1 Israeli. And that is without Iron Dome.

    One Scud was hit by Patriot and, with its flight path redirected, hit a US army barracks in Saudi Arabia killing about 30 soldiers.

    The simple fact is that unguided rockets fired at large population areas are not enormously effective in terms of actually killing people... especially smaller missiles with small payloads.

    You either need guidance for precision or you need very very powerful warheads.


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    Mike E

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:57 pm

    Notice how I said " It may not work against higher-tech missiles (?), but it sure does against Qassams".


    Against Smerch missiles for instance, it may not work at all. I also doubt it would stand even a slim chance against an Iskander.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:17 pm

    Mike E wrote:Notice how I said " It may not work against higher-tech missiles (?), but it sure does against Qassams".


    Against Smerch missiles for instance, it may not work at all. I also doubt it would stand even a slim chance against an Iskander.

    ...Exactly, the likeliness that the Israeli's have any air defense system capable of defeating Iskander is very slim, but that doesn't stop them Israeli's (on the the same lines mp.net/F-16 forum maggots Embarassed ) from creating a circle-jerk marketing campaign against a system (Iskander) that they never even tested against... Laughing Razz Embarassed
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    GarryB

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    Israel Iron Dome

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:38 am

    Notice how I said " It may not work against higher-tech missiles (?), but it sure does against Qassams".

    Qassams are unguided, so anything is higher tech than they are.

    The important point is that there is a huge range of higher tech missiles from Smerch rockets... most of which are not guided but do use a course correction system... think of it as a stabiliser to keep all the rockets closer together rather than actual terminal guidance... and a missile like Iskander that actively manouvers and tries to evade intercepting missiles.


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    nemrod

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  nemrod on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:40 pm


    Another proof of the Idon Dome's hoax

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/29/israeli-scientist-exposes-iron-dome-hoax/

    As confirmed by Pr Theodore Postol who said that in the best case the Idon Dome intercepted only 5% of palestinian roquettes. With several thousands of palestinian roquettes launched in Israel, the success rate of Iron Dome could be in the best case 1%. Let's bet that this filthy AEGIS and other THAAD, or hypothecal shield anti missiles -all are soviet legacy, du the the fled of several soviet scientists during the 90's- are all myth.

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    TR1

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:35 pm

    They don't try to intercept most rockets because they have set kill "areas" that are likely to hit populated areas.

    Try as hard to discredit everything Israel does militarily, but their civilian casualties to rocket attacks have been almost non existant.
    I would say Iron Dome works just fine, and there is no reason it shouldn't.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:16 pm

    TR1 wrote:They don't try to intercept most rockets because they have set kill "areas" that are likely to hit populated areas.

    Try as hard to discredit everything Israel does militarily, but their civilian casualties to rocket attacks have been almost non existant.
    I would say Iron Dome works just fine, and there is no reason it shouldn't.

    TR1's definition of working just fine = spending nearly $100,000 per missile ($95,000 to be exact) for crude hand made rockets that cost $800 a piece, that doesn't sound too cost-effective. It's like spending millions of dollars on MRAP's when IED's cost $20, $30, $40 ,$50 to create:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/09/iron-dome-gaza-israel-air-defence-missile

    Shouldn't a system like Iron Dome be better suited for defending against PGM's? Plus there's air defense guns such as RapidFire 40mm 6x6 system from Thales (May'be a bigger round such as a 57mm for better range) could do the same job at a fraction of the cost, and also with an additional ability to engage insurgents on the ground:

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    nemrod

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  nemrod on Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:21 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    I would say Iron Dome works just fine, and there is no reason it shouldn't.

    As Iam not a specialist regarding this question.
    Feel free to ask him whatever you want
    Here is his detailed proofs.
    http://www.technologyreview.com/view/528991/an-explanation-of-the-evidence-of-weaknesses-in-the-iron-dome-defense-system/

    He said between 6% to 15%.
    15% swaggered by Israel Defense Industry. Believe me, if their system, either Trophy, Iron Dome, or Merkava, were effective as they claimed, nowadays, we should see Netanyahu at Gaza city, with Ismael Hannyeh, Zahar, and all other palestinians insurgents hanged, killed, or assassined. And -the big bullshit of- Mahmud Abbas, if not Dahlan, in Gaza praising Israel help.
    See what's happened in 1982 in Lebanon and you would realize how Israel is weak today. In spite of the help of near all western world.

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:36 am

    Even if it had anywhere near that accuracy, you are still breaking the bank spending $20k to destroy a $10 rocket.


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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:02 am

    Haven't checked it myself since there are no reliable sources on Iron Dome mainly advertisement crap and war propaganda, but Finkelstein also tells that the best accuracy of Iron Dome is around 5%.

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:13 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:Even if it had anywhere near that accuracy, you are still breaking the bank spending $20k to destroy a $10 rocket.

    Actually it costs nearly $100,000 per Iron Dome missile.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:54 am

    If that $10 rocket was going to land on a nuclear power station then I think any amount of money to prevent that would be worth it.

    Personally I like the idea of 57mm guns with laser guided shells.

    those shells wont exactly be cheap but with a number of target marking stations and a couple of guns it should be quite effective even against quite a few rockets at once.


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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:08 am

    GarryB wrote:If that $10 rocket was going to land on a nuclear power station then I think any amount of money to prevent that would be worth it.

    Personally I like the idea of 57mm guns with laser guided shells.

    those shells wont exactly be cheap but with a number of target marking stations and a couple of guns it should be quite effective even against quite a few rockets at once.

    Even if this 10$ firecracker lands thousand times on a nuclear power station it will cause ZERO damage. Those firecrackers can't even damage asphalt roads not to mention high reinforced concrete walls on power plants.
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    nemrod

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:01 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:Even if it had anywhere near that accuracy, you are still breaking the bank spending $20k to destroy a $10 rocket.

    Israel had not this worry. America, UK, France, Italy, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Australia,  etc... are all ready to spend, if not waste, whatever it is possible in amount of money, hardware, military equipement, economic support support, financial support, psychological support, in order to save Israel. If Israel lost a tank, an aircraft, helicopter, etc...all these hardware are immediatly replaced, without regarding how much it is cost.
    To sumarize, Israel is a mere western military basis in this region, not more, not less. Without this western support Israel might disapeared for a long time ago. For example the "Iron Dome" is US technology, as near all of israelis hardware.
    Israel is also a western laboratory to test western weaponnery, and western tactics, against russian fighters, against chinese-russian rockets, against chinese-russian anti-tank missiles.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:39 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:Even if it had anywhere near that accuracy, you are still breaking the bank spending $20k to destroy a $10 rocket.

    Actually it costs nearly $100,000 per Iron Dome missile.

    Says who? Israel says $20k...

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4541496,00.html


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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:52 am

    nemrod wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:Even if it had anywhere near that accuracy, you are still breaking the bank spending $20k to destroy a $10 rocket.

    Israel had not this worry. America, UK, France, Italy, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Australia,  etc... are all ready to spend, if not waste, whatever it is possible in amount of money, hardware, military equipement, economic support support, financial support, psychological support, in order to save Israel. If Israel lost a tank, an aircraft, helicopter, etc...all these hardware are immediatly replaced, without regarding how much it is cost.
    To sumarize, Israel is a mere western military basis in this region, not more, not less. Without this western support Israel might disapeared for a long time ago. For example the "Iron Dome" is US technology, as near all of israelis hardware.
    Israel is also a western laboratory to test western weaponnery, and western tactics, against russian fighters, against chinese-russian rockets, against chinese-russian anti-tank missiles.

    What you say is true for America and a lesser extent Australia. Europe and Asia don't care much about it but waving fists at one side or the other. To summarise, Israel is the 51st US state.


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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:17 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    nemrod wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:Even if it had anywhere near that accuracy, you are still breaking the bank spending $20k to destroy a $10 rocket.

    Israel had not this worry. America, UK, France, Italy, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Australia,  etc... are all ready to spend, if not waste, whatever it is possible in amount of money, hardware, military equipement, economic support support, financial support, psychological support, in order to save Israel. If Israel lost a tank, an aircraft, helicopter, etc...all these hardware are immediatly replaced, without regarding how much it is cost.
    To sumarize, Israel is a mere western military basis in this region, not more, not less. Without this western support Israel might disapeared for a long time ago. For example the "Iron Dome" is US technology, as near all of israelis hardware.
    Israel is also a western laboratory to test western weaponnery, and western tactics, against russian fighters, against chinese-russian rockets, against chinese-russian anti-tank missiles.

    What you say is true for America and a lesser extent Australia.  Europe and Asia don't care much about it but waving fists at one side or the other.  To summarise, Israel is the 51st US state.

    You are wrong. This title claims Germany and 52nd is Japan and 53rd South Korea.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:10 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:Even if it had anywhere near that accuracy, you are still breaking the bank spending $20k to destroy a $10 rocket.

    Actually it costs nearly $100,000 per Iron Dome missile.

    Says who?  Israel says $20k...

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4541496,00.html

    Israel also says Hamas is their eternal enemy, but usually neglects to mention that they helped create Hamas...here's the link pointing out Iron Dome missile cost:

    Each interception rocket costs around $95,000 (£55,000) so Iron Dome is not used against missiles heading for open ground.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/09/iron-dome-gaza-israel-air-defence-missile
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    George1

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:59 pm

    Israel Deploys Iron Dome Batteries, Braces for Hezbollah Retaliation

    Israel has deployed several Iron Dome anti-missile batteries along its northern border bracing for possible attacks from Hezbollah, after six fighters of the militant group were killed during the raid on the Golan Heights on Sunday, January 18.

    Israeli troops patrol the Israeli-occupied sector of the Golan Heights on January 18, 2015. An Israeli helicopter carried out a strike today against terrorists in the Syrian sector of the Golan Heights who were allegedly preparing an attack on Israel, an Israeli security source said.

    MOSCOW, January 20 (Sputnik), Ekaterina Blinova — Israel defense forces are on high alert after Iranian military men and six Hezbollah fighters were killed during the raid on the side of the Golan Heights, controlled by Syria, on Sunday.

    "Hezbollah claims Israel carried out Sunday's strike on the Syrian side of the Golan Heights, which killed a prominent Hezbollah fighter, a senior Iranian general, and five other Hezbollah members. Israel has neither confirmed nor denied its role in the strike," the Associated Press reported.

    Citing UN spokesman Farhan Haq, Agence France-Presse reveals, however, that UN peacekeepers in the Golan saw "two unmanned aerial vehicles flying from the Alpha (Israeli) side and crossing the ceasefire line" on Sunday. "An hour later, smoke was observed coming from the general direction of position 30," Haq said, adding that the drones were seen flying over the "position 30" area and "again crossing the ceasefire line."

    Haaretz, an Israeli media outlet, reports that Hezbollah parliament member Kamal Rifai slammed Jerusalem for the attack and warned it about the possible retaliation.

    "Hezbollah and its leadership have the smarts, the resources and the capability to respond accordingly, after taking into consideration the political-security situation of Lebanon and the region at large," Kamal Rifai said in an interview with Lebanese media.

    The Sunday's strike claimed the lives of six Hezbollah members, including Golan coordinator Jihad Mughniyeh, the son of Imad Mughniyeh – a prominent Hezbollah operative. The media outlet points out that Iranian General Mohammed Allahdadi was also killed during the assault together with five Iranian military servicemen.

    General Ali Jafaari, commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corp, stated on Tuesday that "Zionists" would face "devastating thunderbolts," stressing that the deaths of Allahdaddi and Jihad Mughniyeh had become "a new opening point for the collapse of the Zionist regime."

    In response, Jerusalem has deployed several "Iron Dome" anti-missile batteries along its northern border and intensified surveillance in the region, the Associated Press reports, citing Israeli officials.

    "The IDF [Israel Defense Forces] is prepared, tracking all developments, and ready to act as needed. This statement is not simply a speech — it's a matter of real operational preparedness," Israel Defense Forces' Chief of Staff Benny Gantz said as quoted by the Times of Israel.

    It is worth mentioning that since the beginning of the Syrian war, Israel has allegedly conducted several airstrikes against Syria, targeting its advanced military systems.
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    George1

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:40 pm

    Iron Dome is Not Enough Protection for Israel – Air Force Commander

    The commander of the Israeli Air Force believes the country’s much-touted Iron Dome air defense system cannot fully protect Israel and its citizens.

    Feb. 25, 2013 - The Israel Missile Defense Organization (IMDO) and the U.S. Missile Defense Agency (MDA) completed a successful flight test of the Arrow-3 interceptor missile.

    Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel said the Israeli public's expectation that Iron Dome will protect the entire country is unrealistic – “we won't see results like Protective Edge again,” Israeli newspaper reports.

    The statement is a surprising break from previous Israeli assurances that the Iron Dome, arguably one of the most talked about defense systems in the world, has a 90 percent success rate.

    Israeli officials say the defense "shield" is able to detect an incoming rocket, determine its path and likely point of impact, and intercept it if it poses a threat to Israeli towns or cities.

    Israel claims that of the purported 3,500 rockets fired from Gaza during its latest military operation, 90 percent of those that would have hit population centers were shot down by the Iron Dome system.

    But experts outside of the country have questioned the efficiency of the system.

    "In order for Iron Dome to have any chance of detonating the rocket warheads, it must engage from the front," wrote Richard Lloyd, a warhead designer, in a recently declassified 28-page technical report obtained by Al Jazeera.

    In other words, the Iron Dome missiles must approach rockets head-on, or the probability of interception drops to virtually zero. This is due to the nature of the interceptors' warhead, which is not in the nose of the missile but a third of the length down.

    When very close to its target, the interceptor will detonate, sending a shower of steel rods out to the side of the missile to destroy the rocket. The only way these rods can successfully hit a rocket warhead is when the interceptor comes up to meet the rocket and passes just by it.

    Attempting to hit the rocket side-on will have virtually no chance of success.

    The Iron Dome is an air defense system developed by Rafael Advanced Defense System, designed to intercept short-range rockets and mortar shells.

    Israel deployed the system first in the south in April 2011 to intercept rockets from the Gaza Strip.

    The system uses cameras and radar to track incoming rockets and is supposed to shoot them down within seconds of their launch.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150309/1019249829.html#ixzz3TzBW4OCK

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    max steel

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    Re: Iron Dome Air Defense System

    Post  max steel on Thu May 19, 2016 10:13 pm

    Israel Successfully Tests Iron Dome Defense System at Sea

    Israel has successfully tested its Iron Dome rocket defense system aboard naval ships for the first time.

    Col. Ariel Shir, head of the Navy's operational systems, said Wednesday the system shot down a volley of rockets during a drill recently. He said rockets were fired from the shore and all were detected by the radar system and then intercepted by the weapons system.

    Shir said engineers made some software upgrades to make the system seaworthy. He said missions will include protecting Israel's "strategic assets at sea" like its offshore gas platforms. He said the system can intercept threats while moving at high speeds.

    The Iron Dome protects against short-range rockets, and intercepted hundreds of projectiles fired by Hamas and other Palestinian militants at Israeli towns during the 2014 Gaza war.
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    Militarov

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    Iron Dome air defense system

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