Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Share

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Project 22160

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:59 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Rogozin is being explained about the Project 22160 patrol ship:

    The specs that are visible on the chart mention a displacement of 1700 T, a length of 91 m and an armament that includes:

    76 mm gun
    Igla-S SAM
    12.7 mm machine guns
    DP 64 and 65 anti diver grenade launchers
    Option of a "container" launched system


    So 57mm eliminated? and why 12,7 instead 14,5mm? Rolling Eyes I am disappointed.
    BTW any info if there is planned development of АК-176М2?

    Militarov
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4836
    Points : 4883
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  Militarov on Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:07 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:Rogozin is being explained about the Project 22160 patrol ship:

    The specs that are visible on the chart mention a displacement of 1700 T, a length of 91 m and an armament that includes:

    76 mm gun
    Igla-S SAM
    12.7 mm machine guns
    DP 64 and 65 anti diver grenade launchers
    Option of a "container" launched system


    So 57mm eliminated? and why 12,7 instead 14,5mm?  Rolling Eyes I am disappointed.
    BTW any info if there is planned development of АК-176М2?

    It seems that Russians are dropping 14,5mm in general, you can spot it around less and less. I guess its coz of price of ammo which is quite significant compared to .50 which is produced in bigger amounts which lowers the price and also the base price is alot lower.

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3679
    Points : 3791
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:17 am


    Project 22160 vessels will be stationed in Novorossiysk

    http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/550506.html

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9443
    Points : 9935
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:01 pm

    Russia’s New Corvettes to Be Armed With ISIL-Crushing Kalibr-NK Missiles

    Russia’s ability to land precision strikes on targets in Syria from the Caspian Sea – nearly 1,000 miles away – wowed military experts. Now the Russian Navy plans to incorporate Kalibr-NK land attack cruise missiles into its new Project 22160 patrol ships.

    Earlier this month, 26 cruise missiles were launched from Russian warships in the Caspian Sea. Traveling roughly 932 miles across the land, the projectiles struck 11 terrorist targets in Syria.

    Those missiles were Kalibr-NKs, also known as "The Sword of the Caspian," and they impressed even Western skeptics.

    "It should be a wakeup call that we don’t have a monopoly on the capability," Eric Wertheim, a US naval analyst, told the Daily Beast. He added that Moscow has joined "an exclusive club of global military powers. And that should worry the Pentagon."

    With the success, the Kremlin now plans to incorporate the Kalibr-NKs into its Project 22160 corvettes.

    "The successful salvoes…demonstrated the firepower of those missiles," said Alexander Karpov, First Deputy Director General of Gorky Zelenodolsk Shipyard, according to IHS Janes. "Besides, they take up little volume."

    "The striking range depends on the target, whether it is ground-based or naval, on the route of the missile and the ground obstacles it needs to go around," Rear Admiral Viktor Kochemazov told journalists on Saturday, "and, in total, amounts to 2,000 km."

    Prototypes of the corvette have already been on display at the Interpolitex-2015 exhibition in Moscow. These models show that the missile systems will consist of two separate containers, each outfitted with four missiles.

    With two of the 1,500-1,800 ton vessels already under construction, six are planned for the Russian Navy’s Black Sea Fleet. The first, Vasily Bykov, is slated for launch in 2017, while Dmitry Rogachev is due out the following year.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151027/1029198718/russian-corvettes-armed-kalibr-missiles.html#ixzz3psIiEOUh


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1757
    Points : 1797
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:00 am

    Another article on the new design. Appears the Russian Navy version is to carry a 2 x 4 lift launcher for Caliber missile system.

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-789.html

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:31 am

    Why do they opt for a pathetic SAM system for such ships?  Igla's missiles cannot reach even a drone in a lot of cases (3500m for Igla).  And the designation of using 9K38 is a very old missile (80's).  Nothing to fit larger missiles? What about Sosna-R?  Much higher altitutde and not much larger system.

    Seems air defense systems for many ships are near none existant and that ship is quite large, over 1,300 - 1,700 tons?  They can easily fit Sosna on there or increase VLS and add in Shtil-1.

    I think those figures are BS Franco.  Or the ship is a major ripoff (same performance as the smaller 1,000 ton Buyans but much larger).

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1757
    Points : 1797
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:18 am

    sepheronx wrote:Why do they opt for a pathetic SAM system for such ships?  Igla's missiles cannot reach even a drone in a lot of cases (3500m for Igla).  And the designation of using 9K38 is a very old missile (80's).  Nothing to fit larger missiles? What about Sosna-R?  Much higher altitutde and not much larger system.

    Seems air defense systems for many ships are near none existant and that ship is quite large, over 1,300 - 1,700 tons?  They can easily fit Sosna on there or increase VLS and add in Shtil-1.

    I think those figures are BS Franco.  Or the ship is a major ripoff (same performance as the smaller 1,000 ton Buyans but much larger).

    I agree the Air Defense is weak but everything I have seen suggests weapons to be like this except for the addition of the Caliber which has been rumored before.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:20 am

    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Why do they opt for a pathetic SAM system for such ships?  Igla's missiles cannot reach even a drone in a lot of cases (3500m for Igla).  And the designation of using 9K38 is a very old missile (80's).  Nothing to fit larger missiles? What about Sosna-R?  Much higher altitutde and not much larger system.

    Seems air defense systems for many ships are near none existant and that ship is quite large, over 1,300 - 1,700 tons?  They can easily fit Sosna on there or increase VLS and add in Shtil-1.

    I think those figures are BS Franco.  Or the ship is a major ripoff (same performance as the smaller 1,000 ton Buyans but much larger).

    I agree the Air Defense is weak but everything I have seen suggests weapons to be like this except for the addition of the Caliber which has been rumored before.
    Yeah.  Very pathetic air defense system.  They are sitting ducks to predator drones in this case, and some this large should have something far better which they have available easily.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:34 am

    Previous generation Patrol vessels didn't have Shtil or medium range SAMs either... most just had OSA at most and MANPAD more often... and they certainly didn't have 1,000 mile range land attack cruise missiles...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3679
    Points : 3791
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:46 pm

    Guys you are going about this the wrong way.

    Weapons on that list is the stuff that comes with basic configuration. That means gun and SAM. All other gear including cruise missiles are optional add ons. There is large space behind main gun, I assume that is reserved for large AA system if one is needed.

    This ship is supposed to be anti piracy ship and auxiliary ship but not proper warship. At least that is what I think that ''offshore patrol vessel'' means. I could not find proper definition on line, if someone could provide one I would be grateful...

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:47 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Guys you are going about this the wrong way.

    Weapons on that list is the stuff that comes with basic configuration. That means gun and SAM. All other gear including cruise missiles are optional add ons. There is large space behind main gun, I assume that is reserved for large AA system if one is needed.

    This ship is supposed to be anti piracy ship and auxiliary ship but not proper warship. At least that is what I think that ''offshore patrol vessel'' means. I could not find proper definition on line, if someone could provide one I would be grateful...

    It will be stationed in the Black sea, the type of enemies it would more than likely face are NATO, Ukraine and such.  Maybe be sent to Syria but even then.

    Those Igla's are unacceptable for today's environment.

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3679
    Points : 3791
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:36 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Guys you are going about this the wrong way.

    Weapons on that list is the stuff that comes with basic configuration. That means gun and SAM. All other gear including cruise missiles are optional add ons. There is large space behind main gun, I assume that is reserved for large AA system if one is needed.

    This ship is supposed to be anti piracy ship and auxiliary ship but not proper warship. At least that is what I think that ''offshore patrol vessel'' means. I could not find proper definition on line, if someone could provide one I would be grateful...

    It will be stationed in the Black sea, the type of enemies it would more than likely face are NATO, Ukraine and such.  Maybe be sent to Syria but even then.

    Those Igla's are unacceptable for today's environment.

    It is not supposed to fight NATO. It's purpose is to scare away pirates and do scout work or something. Compared to competition it will be THE best armed thing around. In addition to Iglas, main gun and MG's it will have option for cruise and anti ship missiles, torpedoes and, like I said just now, big AA system in the front most likely. Quite the overkill for pirates.

    This is new UK version for comparison:

    ......Armament

    The main armament of the UK Royal Navy's new 90m offshore patrol vessel is a 30mm cannon. The vessel will be fitted with small calibre machine guns. It can also be mounted with a 12.7mm gun location and a 25mm secondary armament on both the port and starboard sides......

    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/90m-offshore-patrol-vessel-opv/

    franco
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1757
    Points : 1797
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:43 pm

    A helicopter will be a big weapon and the purpose of the 22160 is offshore patrol.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:10 am

    For a patrol boat I think a helo is rather more use than a medium range SAM.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:26 am

    But why Igla?  And what is said is the older missiles 9K38.  Why not Sosna with much larger range and altitude while being barely any bigger?

    marat
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 103
    Points : 103
    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  marat on Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:59 am

    Main task for that ship will be to patrol, to see, and to be seen, not to fight, she have to cheap and capable for long voyages and her arnament is quite good for her task.

    For fight they will have very soon Grigorovich class, Kilo class and they already have Buyans, Nanuchka, Tarantul and Bora class, And off course Moskva is there.

    Patrols shiphs should be used for lot of regular day-to day tasks and to spare resources of fighting forces.

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3679
    Points : 3791
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:19 pm

    sepheronx wrote:But why Igla?  And what is said is the older missiles 9K38.  Why not Sosna with much larger range and altitude while being barely any bigger?

    Igla is just part of basic package, they can still install something really big if they want to like naval Bulk or S-350 (Redut?). That big empty space behind main gun should be for that.

    Like Marat said, these ships are intended to take all unnecessary mileage upon themselves so real warships can be ready when they are needed to be. Currently Udaloys are sometimes used to scare Pirates off the coast of Somalia.
    Quite the waste of resources.

    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1518
    Points : 1681
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:14 pm

    sepheronx wrote:But why Igla?  And what is said is the older missiles 9K38.  Why not Sosna with much larger range and altitude while being barely any bigger?

    Here are a few points for you to consider:

    1) If the Russian Navy wanted a ship with Kalibr and Sosna, they would have ordered more Tatarstan class frigates to be built right there in Zelenodolsk (where the 22160 are being built).

    2) At around 1500 T displacement, the project 22160 is around 25% smaller than the Steregushy class corvette. Do you really expect it to have a similar armament? You cannot have Kalibr missiles, Redut SAM and a helicopter on these smaller ships and still expect good endurance and range. Something has to be sacrificed here.

    3) The 22160 ships are modular in design. Their armament and equipment can be changed according to missions and threats. The specs that are available are just examples. The Gibka system is just one possible option. By the way, the Gibka is no slouch. With the newer missiles (Verba) the range will be 6.5 km not that much shorter than a Sosna's 10 km. Also, the Palma/Sosna system is several times heavier and much more expensive.

    4) The design of the 22160 ships tells me that these are going to be the stealthiest ships in the Russian navy with an RCS smaller than the Steregushy or Gorshkov frigate. Apart from their patrol and surveillance duties, they are designed to sneak into position, fire their Kalibrs and sneak out. They are not intended to play with airborne targets.

    5) The Sosna missile on the Palma gun/missile complex is not the most modern weapon. Why place yesterday's system on the future warship? Sure, they placed it on Gorshkov (as a secondary SAM) because nothing else is available currently. On the 22160 which are a still a couple of years ahead, I would suspect an upcoming vertical launch short range missile system to occupy the modular space between the main gun and superstructure: A TOR follow up or MORPHEI.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:26 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:But why Igla?  And what is said is the older missiles 9K38.  Why not Sosna with much larger range and altitude while being barely any bigger?

    Here are a few points for you to consider:

    1) If the Russian Navy wanted a ship with Kalibr and Sosna, they would have ordered more Tatarstan class frigates to be built right there in Zelenodolsk (where the 22160 are being built).

    2) At around 1500 T displacement, the project 22160 is around 25% smaller than the Steregushy class corvette. Do you really expect it to have a similar armament? You cannot have Kalibr missiles, Redut SAM and a helicopter on these smaller ships and still expect good endurance and range. Something has to be sacrificed here.

    3) The 22160 ships are modular in design. Their armament and equipment can be changed according to missions and threats. The specs that are available are just examples. The Gibka system is just one possible option. By the way, the Gibka is no slouch. With the newer missiles (Verba) the range will be 6.5 km not that much shorter than a Sosna's 10 km. Also, the Palma/Sosna system is several times heavier and much more expensive.

    4) The design of the 22160 ships tells me that these are going to be the stealthiest ships in the Russian navy with an RCS smaller than the Steregushy or Gorshkov frigate. Apart from their patrol and surveillance duties, they are designed to sneak into position, fire their Kalibrs and sneak out. They are not intended to play with airborne targets.

    5) The Sosna missile on the Palma gun/missile complex is not the most modern weapon. Why place yesterday's system on the future warship? Sure, they placed it on Gorshkov (as a secondary SAM) because nothing else is available currently. On the 22160 which are a still a couple of years ahead, I would suspect an upcoming vertical launch short range missile system to occupy the modular space between the main gun and superstructure: A TOR follow up or MORPHEI.

    Good points of course, but I am just stating about the fixed SAM system used. I am more concerned about the altitude than range as Drones can be a massive problem, and the Igla's altitude is quite low compared to Sosna. That is my only real complaint. Outside of that, it looks like a beast.

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4468
    Points : 4659
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:24 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:But why Igla?  And what is said is the older missiles 9K38.  Why not Sosna with much larger range and altitude while being barely any bigger?

    Here are a few points for you to consider:

    1) If the Russian Navy wanted a ship with Kalibr and Sosna, they would have ordered more Tatarstan class frigates to be built right there in Zelenodolsk (where the 22160 are being built).

    2) At around 1500 T displacement, the project 22160 is around 25% smaller than the Steregushy class corvette. Do you really expect it to have a similar armament? You cannot have Kalibr missiles, Redut SAM and a helicopter on these smaller ships and still expect good endurance and range. Something has to be sacrificed here.

    3) The 22160 ships are modular in design. Their armament and equipment can be changed according to missions and threats. The specs that are available are just examples. The Gibka system is just one possible option. By the way, the Gibka is no slouch. With the newer missiles (Verba) the range will be 6.5 km not that much shorter than a Sosna's 10 km. Also, the Palma/Sosna system is several times heavier and much more expensive.

    4) The design of the 22160 ships tells me that these are going to be the stealthiest ships in the Russian navy with an RCS smaller than the Steregushy or Gorshkov frigate. Apart from their patrol and surveillance duties, they are designed to sneak into position, fire their Kalibrs and sneak out. They are not intended to play with airborne targets.

    5) The Sosna missile on the Palma gun/missile complex is not the most modern weapon. Why place yesterday's system on the future warship? Sure, they placed it on Gorshkov (as a secondary SAM) because nothing else is available currently. On the 22160 which are a still a couple of years ahead, I would suspect an upcoming vertical launch short range missile system to occupy the modular space between the main gun and superstructure: A TOR follow up or MORPHEI.

    You forget another point, Igla's/Verba's are designed to defeat cruise missiles, and most Western AshM's are basically cruise missiles designed to attack sea-surface boats, so essentially your better protected than some might think, plus either the 57mm main gun or the 76.2mm gun should be really good at defeating PGM's.

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:12 pm

    GarryB wrote:For a patrol boat I think a helo is rather more use than a medium range SAM.

    Ka-226T seem to be a good match for this job both mass and size much smaller than Ka-29/31 and still can do the job.




    magnumcromagnon wrote: You forget another point, Igla's/Verba's are designed to defeat cruise missiles, and most Western AshM's are basically cruise missiles designed to attack sea-surface boats, so essentially your better protected than some might think, plus either the 57mm main gun or the 76.2mm gun should be really good at defeating PGM's.

    For patrol version sure, for corvette not so sure. But on airbase forum there was an interesting post about probable places foreseen for modular weapon systems - making it fully pledged corvette class.



    source: http://forums.airbase.ru/2013/05/t70217,26--buduschee-mrk-i-mpk-v-vmf-rf.html

    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1518
    Points : 1681
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:06 pm

    There is a fresh order for 6 naval version Ka-226T helicopters intended to be based on the project 22460 coast guard ships:
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1577858.html

    The Ka-226T looks like a good candidate for the pr. 22160 patrol ships as well.

    The diagram posted above by Gunshipdiplomacy is a bit optimistic in my opinion. I believe the modular arrangement will be as follows:

    -For surface warfare mission: The Klub/Kalibr system will be in containers in the back. Not in the limited spaces in front of the CIWS guns. That place is for the AK-630s only. Also, delete the Paket anti-sub system as the ship does not have a sonar.  

    -For anti-submarine mission: Klub/Kalibr containers will be replaced by a dipping sonar and launchers for the Paket system.

    The air defense system (whatever it may be) will be up front right behind the main gun.

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:38 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:There is a fresh order for 6 naval version Ka-226T helicopters intended to be based on the project 22460 coast guard ships:
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1577858.html

    The Ka-226T looks like a good candidate for the pr. 22160 patrol ships as well.

    The diagram posted above by Gunshipdiplomacy is a bit optimistic in my opinion. I believe the modular arrangement will be as follows:

    -For surface warfare mission: The Klub/Kalibr system will be in containers in the back. Not in the limited spaces in front of the CIWS guns. That place is for the AK-630s only. Also, delete the Paket anti-sub system as the ship does not have a sonar.  

    -For anti-submarine mission: Klub/Kalibr containers will be replaced by a dipping sonar and launchers for the Paket system.

    The air defense system (whatever it may be) will be up front right behind the main gun.


    I am not sure if in case of war you have time to change modules not to put all in (torpedoes, missiles choppers and sonars/radars). especially if your task is to escort merchantss or shipping routes.

    Visby has displacement of 640t and has sonars, radars torpedoes, ASchM gun, only helo and AAD is missing but foreseen. Then on 1300t class hull you shall be able to install all stuff .

    Pls note Paket is not only ASW but also anti torpedo protection system.

    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1518
    Points : 1681
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:35 pm

    I don't understand why you are comparing with a much smaller Visby which has no helicopter hangar (only pad for a really small helicopter), no cruise missiles (only smaller anti-ship missiles) and no air defense missiles. In addition, Visby can not have the endurance, amenities, comfort and sea-keeping abilities of the larger Russian ship.
    The 22160 will certainly accommodate more systems and armament than Visby, we have no disagreement on that, but do not try to make a Steregushy out of it.

    Regarding Paket: Models and available photos of the 22160 do not show any bow, keel or hull sonar. To have a Paket anti-sub and anti-torpedo system, you need a sonar. The solution is a dipping sonar (like the Grisha class anti-sub corvettes) that will have to occupy the rear part in a container arrangement that can also include a Paket system.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:30 am

    Ka-226T seem to be a good match for this job both mass and size much smaller than Ka-29/31 and still can do the job.

    Very true and for some observation missions they were developing unmanned helos that could also be ship based to offer useful support for vessels small and large.

    Good points of course, but I am just stating about the fixed SAM system used. I am more concerned about the altitude than range as Drones can be a massive problem, and the Igla's altitude is quite low compared to Sosna. That is my only real complaint. Outside of that, it looks like a beast.

    Iglas were tested for their performance against small targets (Malyutkas to be precise... known in the west as AT-3... about 80cm long and rather a small target).

    Of the 9 shots about 5 were misses but the misses were very close misses... but without a proximity fuse a miss by 10mm is still a miss. The solution was the Igla-S which has a proximity fuse to defeat very small shaped targets. Verba will have a proximity fuse too, so small targets should be able to be engaged anyway...

    The main point is that with the radars and IR optronic sensors on even a small patrol boat we are not talking about a man standing out in the open looking for potential targets with just his eyes... the igla system will get early warning and the aiming system will be cued to the target.

    A 57mm or 76.2mm gun would also be very useful against subsonic anti ship missiles and aircraft.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Prοject 22160 - Offshore Patrol Vessel

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 6:57 am


      Current date/time is Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:57 am