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    European Defence Industries: News

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    GarryB
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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:26 am


    The Il-76 and Il-76TD-90 are not a fraction of the price of an A400. They are also basically a 50-year old design.

    they are in a different performance class, but the new Il-476 aircraft being built for the Russian military are costing about 100 million dollars each... compared with the 150 million Euros the smaller lighter shorter ranged A-400Ms are costing the French.

    With a 37 ton payload and a 3,300km flight range with that payload, the A-400M is not in the same class as the Il-476 with a 52 ton capacity and able to fly 5,000km with that payload the A-400M is a very capable light transport... a super An-12 rather than an Il-476 equivalent despite being a much younger aircraft.

    I'd say that was a pretty inefficient and politicised production set-up if ever there was one.

    the different components are a requirement of the customer. For Russian Flankers there are no foreign components and production is centralised.

    The plan for A-400M is copied from the C-17s playbook... build parts in economically depressed areas and no politician will cut production. In fact it worked so well the US military didn't bother asking for money to make C-17s as they knew it would get funding automatically.

    In that sense it was spectacularly successful.

    It is a transport plane that costs more than three times the price of an F-35... it is a total turkey in economic sense.

    5 Il-476s for the price of one C-17 at $500 million a pop.


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    BlackArrow
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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  BlackArrow on Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    they are in a different performance class, but the new Il-476 aircraft being built for the Russian military are costing about 100 million dollars each... compared with the 150 million Euros the smaller lighter shorter ranged A-400Ms are costing the French.

    And how much do they cost to export customers - are there any export customers who care?

    For Russian Flankers there are no foreign components and production is centralised. wrote:



    I'm pretty certain there are foreign components on the Su-30SM - or has that changed?

    The plan for A-400M is copied from the C-17s playbook... build parts in economically depressed areas and no politician will cut production. In fact it worked so well the US military didn't bother asking for money to make C-17s as they knew it would get funding automatically. In that sense it was spectacularly successful. It is a transport plane that costs more than three times the price of an F-35... it is a total turkey in economic sense. 5 Il-476s for the price of one C-17 at $500 million a pop. wrote:


    C-17 doe not cost 500 million. There must have been more foreign sales of the C-17 in the last 20 years than any Il-76 derivative. certainly overall sales are better than the Il-76 in recent years.

    Most air forces around the world seem to think the C-17 and A400 are better value than the Il-76 - they are actually buying them in droves.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:27 am

    And how much do they cost to export customers - are there any export customers who care?

    100 million for Russia is the domestic price.

    150 million euros for France is the domestic price... WTF does export customers have to do with this?


    I'm pretty certain there are foreign components on the Su-30SM - or has that changed?

    Again... the Typhoon always contains foreign parts because no one country produces all the components. The Su-30SM for domestic use uses all domestic components. For export they can ask for any bits they want... hense Su-30MKI/MKK etc etc.

    C-17 doe not cost 500 million.

    The Indians and the Aussies reportedly paid about that for their aircraft...


    There must have been more foreign sales of the C-17 in the last 20 years than any Il-76 derivative. certainly overall sales are better than the Il-76 in recent years.

    Australia 8 with 2 on order

    Canada 5

    India 10

    NATO NATO 3

    Kuwait 2

    Qatar 4 with 4 on order

    United Arab Emirates 6 with 2 on order

    United Kingdom 8

    so 46 bought by export customers and 8 on order...

    Compared with Il-76:


    Algeria 18

    Angola 2

    Armenia -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Azerbaijan -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Belarus - wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Burkina Faso 1

    Cambodia 1

    China 17

    Democratic Republic of the Congo 2

    Republic of the Congo 1

    Cuba 2

    Equatorial Guinea 1

    Georgia -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Hungary leased but not owned.

    India 24

    Iran 35

    Iraq 1+

    Jordan 2

    Kazakhstan -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Kyrgyzstan -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Laos registered and operates in Cambodia and is counted there.


    Latvia -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.


    Libya 21+

    North Korea 1

    Serbia 5

    Sierra Leone 1

    Sudan 12+

    Syria 4+

    Turkmenistan -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Ukraine -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    United Nations Volga-Dnepr operates 16 that are leased by NATO and US and UK widely used.

    United States 1+ used for fire fighting in US.

    United Arab Emirates 4

    Uzbekistan -wont include as it is former Soviet state and therefore not an export customer.

    Yemen 5


    That works out to be 176 including the US as a user.

    Regarding better value... my ass... the C-17 is the only option for the colonies of the US and was the only option for places like India because there were no Il-76s in production when they wanted them... Iran has already said it wants Il-476s and I suspect quite a few other countries will prefer the cheaper more capable option... especially when it comes with a fire fighting kit that allows it to drop water on fires with no permanent changes needed to the standard transport that allows it to carry 3.5 times more water than the C-130 equivalent.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Militarov
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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Militarov on Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:21 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    they are in a different performance class, but the new Il-476 aircraft being built for the Russian military are costing about 100 million dollars each... compared with the 150 million Euros the smaller lighter shorter ranged A-400Ms are costing the French.

    And how much do they cost to export customers - are there any export customers who care?





    I'm pretty certain there are foreign components on the Su-30SM - or has that changed?




    C-17 doe not cost 500 million. There must have been more foreign sales of the C-17 in the last 20 years than any Il-76 derivative. certainly overall sales are better than the Il-76 in recent years.

    Most air forces around the world seem to think the C-17 and A400 are better value than the Il-76 - they are actually buying them in droves.

    Il476 from what i am aware is somewhat above 60million USD per piece, meanwhile latest sale of C17 rated its price on nearly 300mil per piece. So rate still stays 5 for 1.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:01 am

    And why do they buy at such ridiculous prices?

    Because they have no alternative... Australia can't buy Russian aircraft, they are not allowed.

    India wanted aircraft quickly and was flirting with the US.

    If there was no politics involved and no time table the C-17 would sell as well as the C-141 did...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Militarov
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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:And why do they buy at such ridiculous prices?

    Because they have no alternative... Australia can't buy Russian aircraft, they are not allowed.

    India wanted aircraft quickly and was flirting with the US.

    If there was no politics involved and no time table the C-17 would sell as well as the C-141 did...

    When my unit got 2 new Sagem radios to replace soviet Р123M they were paid so expencive that you could literally buy 15 Chinese copies of it, which cant be 15 times worse.

    George1
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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:12 pm

    Europe May Profit From US Refusal to Share Technology With Seoul

    Earlier this week, Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter refused South Korea’s request to reconsider the transfer of four technologies related to stealth aircraft.

    “The tech transfer was part of a larger deal intended to deliver 40 F-35 Joints Strike Fighters to South Korea, along with 25 technologies associated with the program.” However, the State Department refused the transfer of four of the twenty-five technologies.

    The four technologies in question are the active electronically scanned radar, the infrared search-and-rescue systems, the electro-optical targeting pod and the radio frequency jammer, Robert Farley wrote for The Diplomat.

    While export controls are proposed to evaluate only security concerns, the US government could also use the export control system to prevent transferring technologies that may be damaging to US commercial military advantages.

    Hence, the KF-X may serve as competition for the F-35, and its absence may lead the Koreans to buy more Joint Strike Fighters.

    The US’ decision has resulted in a blaze of criticism in Seoul, some directed at the United States and some directed at a government which was unprepared for the likely prospect of a DoD veto.

    “Is it possible that the European defense industry may profit from the United States’ refusal to share technology with Seoul?” Farley asked.

    The fact that Airbus recently won the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) contract for 'an in-flight refueling' may not be so favorable for the future of the US’ tech alliance with South Korea.

    “If the Europeans establish themselves as reliable suppliers of both technology and equipment, the relationship between Washington and Seoul may weaken. That said, South Korea will continue to depend on specific, advanced US military technologies for quite some time,” Farley concluded.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151025/1029090137/south-korea-us-technology-security-concern-europe-profit.html#ixzz3pbI3Ny5y


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    max steel
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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:08 pm

    EU Parliament rejects amendments protecting net neutrality

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:53 pm

    Saab Receives Order from Latvia for RBS 70 Missiles


    SSB is a short-range ground-based air defence missile systems includes the RBS 70 and the further enhanced RBS 70 NG.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:53 pm

    RBS 70 NG SUCCESSFULLY INTEGRATED AND TESTED BY CZECH ARMY

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:35 pm

    Saab Provides Service Life Extension for RBS 97 Air Defence System


    The RBS 97 (Hawk) is a surface-to-air missile system that is part of Sweden’s national defences. It is capable of shooting down high-flying targets, in all weather conditions, at a range of up to 40 km.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:02 am

    Airbus Plans Global Hub In India for Panther Copters


    Europe’s Airbus Group which is competing for aircraft orders from India’s navy and air force Monday said it will build local assembly lines if these projects come through.

    The final assembly lines to make Panther helicopters for the Navy and C295 transport aircraft for the Indian Air Force will be built at a cost of over Rs. 5,000 crore and will create over 10,000 high skilled jobs, the aerospace and defence firm said in New Delhi.

    “We are proposing to establish a final assembly line in India for the AS565 MBe Panther helicopters, if we get the Naval Utility Helicopters contract,” said Pierre de Bausset, president and managing director, Airbus Group India. “We will have India as the global hub for Panthers,” he added.

    He said along with the final assembly line, Airbus will set up tier I, II and III supply chain infrastructure in India for these helicopters.

    Airbus Helicopters is in the process to form a joint venture company with Mahindra Defence Systems Ltd. This company hopes to become the private strategic partner on helicopter platforms.

    On 24 January, the defence production arm of the Mahindra Group, Mahindra Defence and Airbus Helicopters had signed a so-called statement of intent to produce military helicopters in India.

    The companies plan to set up a final assembly line in India, develop tier-1 and tier-2 suppliers and make extensive transfer of technology, to achieve 50% indigenous content.

    In July, Mahindra Defence and Airbus Helicopters had signed an in-principle agreement to set up a joint venture to manufacture helicopters in India, seeking to tap a military hardware market estimated to grow to $41 billion in seven years.

    Apart from the Naval Utility Helicopters, the joint company will also target the Reconnaissance & Surveillance Helicopters (RSH) requirement of over 200 units with the H125M Fennec and the Naval Multi-Role Helicopters (NMRH) requirement of more than 120 units with the H225M (previously marketed as EC725).

    The company also plans to establish a final assembly line in India for the C295 military transport aircraft in partnership with Tata Group companies.

    The C295 is being proposed as a replacement for the Indian Air Force’s ageing Avro fleet.

    The company said the selection process is on track and field evaluation trials are expected in the near future.

    The “Make In India” initiative launched by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on 25 September 2014 aims to boost domestic manufacturing and create jobs. Twenty-five sectors were identified for “Make In India”, from automobiles to aviation to pharmaceuticals to tourism and wellness.

    Stressing that the Group is already making in India through its over 45 suppliers, de Bausset said, “What we buy in India, we make in India.”

    Referring to the Indian government rules restricting foreign ownership in the Indian defence sector to 49%, de Bausset said: “The issue is not the limit per se. The business case for high-tech transfer to India becomes more compelling if foreign OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) are allowed to have adequate equity and management control in the joint venture in line with the risks they are taking and the contributions they are providing.”

    In a first for any foreign aerospace and defence OEM in India, Airbus Group exceeded the $500 million annual procurement mark from India in 2015, Mint reported on 12 March.

    Airbus Group has now set its sight on exceeding $2 billion in cumulative procurement, covering both civil and defence, in the five years up to 2020, Mint reported citing de Bausset.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:22 pm

    Airbus Beats Boeing in $9.1 Billion Kuwaiti Fighter Jet Deal

    With a 46% interest in the Eurofighter consortium, Airbus stands to reap big gains from this sale.The Journal reports that Saudi Arabia and Oman are also in talks to acquire more Typhoons. Meanwhile, Qatar has signed up to buy Rafale fighter jets from Dassault Aviation -- another European rival to Boeing.

    Increasingly, Boeing and its defense business appear to be getting left behind in the crucial Middle East market.


    Kuwait doesn't even have enough pilots to fly them. Rolling Eyes


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Sat May 21, 2016 1:19 am

    Airbus just patented the fastest helicopter in the world




    Airbus is trying take high speed helicopters to whole new level.

    Last month, the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved an application last month from Airbus Helicopters' Axel Fink, Ambrosius Weiss, and Andrew Winkworth for a new compound helicopter.

    The patented design is a yet-unnamed development of the company's revolutionary X3 experimental helicopter that first flew in 2010.The concept is also part of Airbus Helicopters' (formerly known as Eurocopter) high speed, long-range, hybrid helicopter (H3) initiative.

    During testing, the X3 managed to reach to 293 mph - making it the fastest non-tilt-rotor helicopter in the world. The new patent offers a development on the original X3 design.

    What makes the new aircraft a compound helicopter are is pair of wing-mounted engines with pusher propellers in addition to the conventional main rotor. This design eliminates the need for a tail rotor to counter the torque of the main rotor.

    A helicopter with additional pusher or puller propellers is far from new and various versions have been flying for decades. However, a helicopter with this layout and such high performance is quite novel.




    This design also helps the helicopter reach the performance levels of tilt-rotor aircraft such as the V22 Osprey that can takeoff and land like a helicopter, but transform into a conventional aircraft for horizontal flight.

    Unlike the X3 prototype, the patented aircraft's propellers are mounted behind the wings instead of in front. According to the patent, this helps reduce noise, and vibrations while improving lift and passenger safety.

    The authors of the patent indicate that a further development of the design will include turbojet engines. This means the patented helicopter will likely be significantly faster than the record-setting X3.

    This new patent could also be the latest development of the Low Impact Fast and Efficient Rotor-Craft or LifeRCraft to which Airbus Helicopters hinted in 2014. That project is also based on the X3 concept.

    It is unclear if the patented compound helicopter will ever see production in its current guise.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:29 am

    Former Enemies France and Germany Team Up to Build Big Guns



    Chairman of the French military-industrial firm Nexter Stephane Mayer said that France and Germany are in talks on launching a joint project to develop new-generation artillery.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – France and Germany are in talks on launching a joint project to develop new-generation artillery, chairman of the French military-industrial firm Nexter Stephane Mayer said, as cited by media.

    “Today there is a political will to pursue common programs, with two projects under study … There is a review with the two defense ministries and chiefs of staff, and we will obviously make proposals, dialog with the ministries and take note of the requirements,” Mayer said, as quoted by the Defense News newspaper.

    The news come as Nexter and German defense technologies firm Krauss-Maffei Wegmann teamed up to form a joint venture named KNDS. Berlin and Paris are also reportedly in talks on the planned replacement of their Leopard and Leclerc heavy tanks.

    “The time horizon is 2025 to 2030 for development of these new programs, which are … strategic and important for our group,” Mayer said.

    According to the chairman, Nexter hopes that other European countries will later join the projects, with Britain and Italy leading the list of potential partners.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160611/1041170587/france-germany-next-generation-artillery.html#ixzz4BJgYwpjq


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:31 pm

    The Fincantieri shipyards group has handed over the “Pietro Venuti,” the third of four German-designed Type U212A-class submarines for the Italian navy.






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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:20 am

    Future Of The Super Puma In Doubt?

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:47 pm

    France and Germany are discussing the possibility of joint procurement of automatic rifles HK416

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2231195.html


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  airstrike on Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:21 am

    Heckler & Koch may stop selling to Turkey and Saudi Arabia in the future

    http://defense-watch.com/2016/11/29/heckler-koch-may-stop-selling-to-turkey-and-saudi-arabia-in-the-future/

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