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    European Defence Industries: News

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    Vladimir79
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    Eurocopter signed two strategic agreements with Kazakhstan

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:17 am

    Eurocopter signed two strategic agreements with Kazakhstan

    European helicopter supplier Eurocopter and the Kazakh company Kazakhstan Engineering have signed a framework agreement on establishing a joint venture on a parity basis (50/50) for assembling and configuring helicopters ES145. The agreement provides for the development of local network service and support helicopters over the entire zone of the Customs Union, which includes Kazakhstan, Russia and Belarus, as well as throughout the Central Asian region.

    The second agreement was signed in the form of a Memorandum of Understanding, under which the Ministry of Defence of Kazakhstan should confirm its intention to purchase 45 helicopters in the next six years.

    ES145 is on top of middle-class multi-purpose twin-engine helicopters with modern design cockpit, avionics and rotor system. The machine can fly in all weather conditions, especially at very low temperatures, which are in Kazakhstan (-45 degrees Celsius). Both agreements were approved Oct. 27 during the visit of Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev to France.

    The joint venture Eurocopter / Kazakhstan Engineering will carry out the assembly and configuration of helicopters in Astana (Kazakhstan). The company will be formally established in December of this year, the helicopter will receive the designation KN145. All 45 helicopters will be assembled in six years, the first initial batch of six cars will be delivered in 2011.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:57 am

    Russian helicopters will be in demand, despite the establishment of the joint venture with Eurocopter

    Moscow. October 28. Interfax-AVN - The Rosoboronexport believe that the creation of the territory of Kazakhstan joint venture to manufacture helicopters will not reduce the demand for Russian helicopters, announced on Thursday by CEO Anatoly Isaikin.

    "I do not think it will be great competition helicopters, because the greatest demand is for our military transport and combat helicopters. It's Mi-171 and Mi-35", - said A. Isaikin, commenting on the signing of an agreement between Kazakhstan and European Concern Eurocopter joint venture.

    According to A. Isaikina, the Russian helicopters, as well as new Mi-28N and Ka-52 will be in demand.

    "I think that this class of helicopters will hit the main supply through Rosoboronexport, - he said.

    Number of helicopters of Soviet and Russian production, operating in Kazakhstan, measured in tens. This is an Mi-8 Mi-17 Mi-26 Mi-24 and Mi-35.

    It was reported earlier that the holding company "Helicopters of Russia" together with the repair plants 405 (Alma-Ata) plan to create on the territory of Kazakhstan the service center for repair and maintenance of operation of Russian helicopters. In addition to helicopter maintenance center in Kazakhstan will also be engaged in their service in the Central Asian region, including the territory of Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and other countries.

    In May 2010, Advisor to Director General of Rosoboronexport Esen Topoev told Interfax-AVN that "Russian-Kazakh military cooperation has great potential for further development." "Lord of the market of this country is very ambitious. Only through the military establishment, have in mind the Defense Ministry of Kazakhstan, it is estimated at about $ 5 billion," - he said.

    In 2007-2008, according to the contract signed with Rosoboronexport in Rostov-on-Don have been upgrading four helicopters Mi-24V and one Mi-26P Force Air Defense Forces of Kazakhstan.

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    European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:55 pm

    MBDA performed the first test flight The KFK missile on 19 September 2012 at the military training centre in Baumholder, Germany. On this test the miniature missile demonstrator performed two successful unguided firings, with the missile travelling the planned distance in each case. The test was attended by German officials.
    Under the project supervision and funding of MBDA Germany, MBDA with the support of various government offices has been financing the a Kleinflugkörper (Small Missile) Technology Demonstration Programme. The current phase spans over one year and is funded by the MBDA. The missile concept was developed by building on the mission experience of the German Bundeswehr and more generally on the lessons learned from recent conflicts.

    The small missile addresses evolving requirements for an affordable, compact and lightweight precision multipurpose weapon that can be carried and operated by a single soldier. The KFK concept is positioned as a complimentary weapon to existing existing shoulder-fired infantry weapon systems, enabling the dismounted infantry to engage different targets with high precision at the relevant combat ranges, with high precision, with minimal exposure to the operator.

    “We are pursuing this project drawing on multinational capabilities across MBDA. This multinational approach is particularly interesting in view of the shrinking budgets in Europe’s defence markets. MBDA is breaking new ground here with respect to the rapid, multinational implementation of innovative solutions for international customers” explains Peter Heilmeier, Market and Business Development Director at MBDA Germany.

    Source : Defense Update ( http://defense-update.com/20121017_kfk.html)

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:58 am

    So this is their equivalent of METIS-M1/Javelin?


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:12 pm

    GarryB wrote:So this is their equivalent of METIS-M1/Javelin?

    I rather suspect that they are trying to come out with a cost effective version of the Javelin as most NATO members cannot afford the Javelin in large number . Ergo, there is an untapped market.

    The 9K115-2 Metis M1 uses semi-automatic command-to-line-of sight (SACLOS) guidance system & I recon most Western analogues have done away with this type of guidance system. The Metis can penetrate 950 mm RHA . Not sure if MBDA's missile can do the same .

    India's preference still remains the INVAR and today a $400 million order was placed with Russia.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:08 pm

    The use of guided anti tank weapons for non armoured targets is not new... the British in the Falklands campaign extensively used Milan ATGMs against enemy sniper and MG positions.

    In Afghanistan the vast majority of targets the Javelin is being used against are also enemy troop positions which means the terminal IIR guidance is useless and it is just being used as a manually command to line of sight guidance mode.

    The point is that the range of the Javelin and the Metis is that it can be launched from outside the range of small arms fire and still hit point targets with a powerful warhead.

    The main difference is that a Javelin missile has a thermal imager in the nose of the missile so it costs about $60K US per missile, while the Metis which has no terminal guidance but can still hit small point targets from 2km range is much much cheaper.

    Why reinvent the wheel... a cheap simple guided weapon that is effective against a wide range of targets and cheap enough to be widely deployed and actually used in combat on a regular basis.

    The Metis can be fitted with a thermal imager to give it night and all weather capability so in practical terms there is really little advantage to the Javelin.

    The cost difference makes the choice pretty one sided.

    The political considerations of course make the wrong choice the obvious one. Smile

    Even the new model RPO would be very useful and probably more use than Javelin.


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    Solid Fuel Ramjet motor in Meteor Missile

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:12 am

    Simple question about the motor used in the Meteor

    I remember reading a post by either Mindstorm or GarryB about the motor in the Meteor being a product with assistance from former Soviet/Russian scientists that sold them the test data etc.
    I have tried to find it in the various Meteor related forums but so far no luck so I figured I would directly ask. So, does anyone know where I can find information on this?' Thanks.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:38 pm

    MBDA: France, UK To Sign Tech Transfer Deal

    PARIS — MBDA expects Britain and France to sign an intergovernmental agreement by the end of the year to allow the legal transfer of technology and production, a key note in cross-border cooperation in a highly sensitive area, said Antoine Bouvier, chairman of the European missile maker.

    "The intergovernment agreement allows a necessary convergence," Bouvier told journalists Monday as he announced 2014 financial results and set out the major issues for the company.

    Airbus and BAE Systems each hold 37.5 percent of the company and Finmeccanica the remaining 25 percent.

    The bilateral agreement reflects four years of detailed, discreet work since the 2010 Lancaster House bilateral treaty, with MBDA taking on the role of "laboratory" for industrial specialization in the defense industry, Bouvier said.

    Under the specialization, four centers of excellence will be the base for research and development (R&D) and production of subsystems. For example, the Lostock site, near Manchester, has just produced the actuator fin for the Missile Moyenne Portée (MMP), a medium-range weapon to replace the antitank Milan for the French Army, he said. There is also a British center specializing on datalinks.

    The Bourges factory, in central France, has a test bench for Brimstone, a British missile, he said. Another French site will specialize on weapons controller technology. Those are four of 12 centers of excellence that will handle the work share packages agreed on programs.

    That specialization concept aims to curb duplication in research and development and production of missiles in Britain and France, which are already close partners in Europe. New programs, notably the Future Anti-Surface Guided Weapon (Heavy), or Anti-Navire Léger, helicopter-borne missile, will be developed and built under that industrial specialization, while current programs will gradually be transferred to that system.

    That European duplication, which reflects a national insistence on retaining a defense industrial capability, handicaps MBDA as it competes with Lockheed Martin and Raytheon in world markets, Bouvier said. The US companies did not have the overlap of competences commonly found in Europe.

    The specialization accepted the principle of a certain level of "mutual dependence," he said. That goes beyond R&D and production, and includes a handover of export rights to the partner country and development of capability, which is a strategic issue.

    That export accord has yet to be fully tested. For instance, would the UK agree if France granted export rights of missiles to Argentina? a defense source asked.

    The missiles to arm the Rafale and multimission frigate for Egypt gave MBDA one of its biggest foreign sales in years, said Bouvier, who declined to give any details. The company expects a second large export deal this year.

    MBDA seeks the foreign orders to offset the fall in spending in Europe, with 2014 marking a low point in the company's annual sales, he said.

    The company posted 2014 sales of €2.4 billion (US $2.5 billion), down from €2.8 billion in the previous year.

    Orders edged higher to €4.1 billion, with exports accounting for €2.5 billion. The foreign sales exceeded domestic orders as seen in 2013 and 2012. The company booked orders of €4 billion in 2013. The total of €8.1 billion signaled a recovery in future sales, and boosted the total order book to €12.6 billion from €10.8 billion.

    MBDA hit its target of annual profit of about 10 percent of sales, Bouvier said.

    Poland and Turkey are two major export prospects with their respective tenders for air defense systems, he said. Italy is expected to sign an agreement this year on the Aster New Technology weapon as the Italian Navy wishes to arm its new multifunction, 4,500-ton frigate. That naval interest compares to the French Army's interest in the Aster, he said.

    The Aster NT would extend the reach of the current Aster block 1 weapon to hit ballistic missiles with a range of 1,000 kilometers. That compares to the block 1's ability to intercept missiles with a range of 600 kilometers.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:03 am

    SIXTH GALILEO SATELLITE REACHES ORBIT

    The sixth Galileo satellite of Europe’s navigation system has now entered its corrected target orbit, which will allow detailed testing to assess the performance of its navigation payload.

    Launched with the fifth Galileo last August, its initial elongated orbit saw it travelling as high as 25 900 km above Earth and down to a low point of 13 713 km – confusing the Earth sensor used to point its navigation antennas at the ground.

    A recovery plan was devised between ESA’s Galileo team, flight dynamics specialists at ESA’s ESOC operations centre and France’s CNES space agency, as well as satellite operator SpaceOpal and manufacturer OHB.

    This involved gradually raising the lowest point of the satellites’ orbits more than 3500 km while also making them more circular.

    The fifth Galileo entered its corrected orbit at the end of November 2014. Both its navigation and search and rescue payloads were switched on the following month to begin testing.

    Now the sixth satellite has reached the same orbit, too.

    This latest salvage operation began in mid-January and concluded six weeks later, with some 14 manoeuvres performed in total.

    Its corrected position is effectively a mirror image of the fifth satellite’s, placing the pair on opposite sides of the planet.

    The exposure of the two to the harmful Van Allen Belt radiation has been greatly reduced, helping to ensure future reliability.

    Significantly, the corrected orbit means they will overfly the same location on the ground every 20 days. This compares with a standard Galileo repeat pattern of every 10 days, helping to synchronise their ground tracks with the rest of the constellation.

    The test results from Galileo 5 proved positive, with the same test campaign for the sixth satellite due to begin shortly, overseen by ESA’s Redu centre in Belgium. A 20 m-diameter antenna will study the strength and shape of the navigation signals at high resolution.

    “I am very proud of what our teams at ESA and industry have achieved,” says Marco Falcone, head of Galileo system office. “Our intention was to recover this mission from the very early days after the wrong orbit injection. This is what we are made for at ESA.”

    The decision whether to use the two satellites for navigation and search-and-rescue purposes will be ultimately taken by the European Commission, as the system owner, based on the in-orbit test results and the system’s ability to provide navigation data from the improved orbits.

    The next pair of satellites is due for launch on 27 March.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Sat May 23, 2015 4:37 pm

    Germany, France plan to create competitor to Russian Armata tank by 2030 — media

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Airbornewolf on Sun May 24, 2015 1:39 am

    George1 wrote:Germany, France plan to create competitor to Russian Armata tank by 2030 — media

    what a load of crap, sorry no offense intended.

    there are good reasons why France developed the Leclerc MBT and Germany developed its Leo2. co-operation between Germany's and France's defense industry is exceptional at best. the only real product the two managed to field together is the Tiger helicopter. just because politicians now say that does not mean the defense industry's are going to do it. both German and France defense industries are worlds apart.


    i know Rheinmetall already has been asked by the german government if the L44 gun of the Leo 2 could defeat the Armata. not was the only answer "no". but that if Rheinmetall would develop an round capable of reaching the needed velocity to penetrate it the L-44 would blow up. the current Leo2A7+ could fire a few rounds before needing its main gun replaced. stating the L-44 was never designed to handle the projectile acceleration and pressure requirements to defeat this kind of modern Armour.
    so not only can the L-44 not take more than 50 shots of conventional wartime rounds, it can not fire an upgraded round without blowing up its cannon.

    Rheinmetall does not feel pressed either to rush this new MBT cannon project either. some might recall Rheinmetall's cancelled contracts with Russia because of the Sanctions. Rheinmetall first wants to see money for failed contracts with Russia where its still sueing the german government for.


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon May 25, 2015 12:51 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    George1 wrote:Germany, France plan to create competitor to Russian Armata tank by 2030 — media

    what a load of crap, sorry no offense intended.

    there are good reasons why France developed the Leclerc MBT and Germany developed its Leo2.  co-operation between Germany's and France's defense industry is exceptional at best. the only real product the two managed to field together is the Tiger helicopter. just because politicians now say that does not mean the defense industry's are going to do it. both German and France defense industries are worlds apart.


    i know Rheinmetall already has been asked by the german government if the L44 gun of the Leo 2 could defeat the Armata. not was the only answer "no". but that if Rheinmetall would develop an round capable of reaching the needed velocity to penetrate it the L-44 would blow up.  the current Leo2A7+ could fire a few rounds before needing its main gun replaced. stating the L-44 was never   designed to handle the projectile acceleration and pressure requirements to defeat this kind of modern Armour.
    so not only can the L-44 not take more than 50 shots of conventional wartime rounds, it can not fire an upgraded round without blowing up its cannon.

    Rheinmetall does not feel pressed either to rush this new MBT cannon project either. some might recall Rheinmetall's cancelled contracts with Russia because of the Sanctions. Rheinmetall first wants to see money for failed contracts with Russia where its still sueing the german government for.

    Bahahaha.... sounds like Rheinmetall is taking the General Dynamics route, make some high claim to justify the creation of a new weapon system, although unlike GD, Rheinmetall will actually make something that works

    As for the French, German cooperation, i believe it will most likely end up like the Europanzer debacle.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon May 25, 2015 2:51 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:
    George1 wrote:Germany, France plan to create competitor to Russian Armata tank by 2030 — media

    what a load of crap, sorry no offense intended.

    there are good reasons why France developed the Leclerc MBT and Germany developed its Leo2.  co-operation between Germany's and France's defense industry is exceptional at best. the only real product the two managed to field together is the Tiger helicopter. just because politicians now say that does not mean the defense industry's are going to do it. both German and France defense industries are worlds apart.


    i know Rheinmetall already has been asked by the german government if the L44 gun of the Leo 2 could defeat the Armata. not was the only answer "no". but that if Rheinmetall would develop an round capable of reaching the needed velocity to penetrate it the L-44 would blow up.  the current Leo2A7+ could fire a few rounds before needing its main gun replaced. stating the L-44 was never   designed to handle the projectile acceleration and pressure requirements to defeat this kind of modern Armour.
    so not only can the L-44 not take more than 50 shots of conventional wartime rounds, it can not fire an upgraded round without blowing up its cannon.

    Rheinmetall does not feel pressed either to rush this new MBT cannon project either. some might recall Rheinmetall's cancelled contracts with Russia because of the Sanctions. Rheinmetall first wants to see money for failed contracts with Russia where its still sueing the german government for.

    Bahahaha.... sounds like Rheinmetall is taking the General Dynamics route, make some high claim to justify the creation of a new weapon system, although unlike GD, Rheinmetall will actually make something that works

    As for the French, German cooperation, i believe it will most likely end up like the Europanzer debacle.

    Europanzer, Lince, AMX40, OF-40 all are resounding successes... dunno

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed May 27, 2015 12:06 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Europanzer, Lince, AMX40, OF-40 all are resounding successes... dunno

    Europanzer by itself was indeed a resounding success, the debacle was that it's creators bickered about it's implementation because of the differences in there doctrine and delayed it proliferation till it was finally dropped, then each contributing country made there own variation of the Europanser.

    Honestly speaking, perhaps the EuPz isn't the best example, so let's call this a very optimistic view on what's going to happen. Wink

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Book. on Sun May 31, 2015 10:25 pm

    Airbus admits 'serious quality control issues' with A400M final assembly
    Airbus has 'a serious quality control problem' in the final assembly of the A400M Atlas transport aircraft, a senior company executive admitted on 28 May.

    Speaking to the German publication Handelsblatt , the chief strategy and marketing officer of Airbus Group, Marwan Lahoud, said that the initial findings of the investigation into the crash of aircraft MSN023 have shown serious quality control issues in final assembly.

    "The [recovered] black boxes attest to [there being no design problems with the A400M]," he reportedly said, adding, "There are no structural defects, but we have a serious quality problem in the final assembly."

    With the investigation into the 9 May crash that killed four of the six crew and seriously injured the other two ongoing, Airbus has declined to comment officially on possible causes.

    However, following the crash the company issued a notice to A400M operators (currently, France, Turkey, Malaysia, and the United Kingdom) to perform specific checks on the aircraft's EuroProp International TP400-D6 engines "to avoid potential risks in any future flights". These checks relate to the electronic control units (ECUs) on each of the aircraft's engines, which appeared from Airbus' own analysis into the loss of MSN023 to have had flaws in the software.

    The A400M final assembly line is located at San Pablo Airport near Seville, and it was nearby that MSN023 crashed on its maiden flight ahead of its planned delivery to Turkey.

    Prior to the accident the programme was already struggling with delivery delays that were the result of incomplete sub-assemblies arriving at the plant. Airbus has now said these sub-assembly problems were rectified some weeks ago.

    http://www.janes.com/article/51857/airbus-admits-serious-quality-control-issues-with-a400m-final-assembly

    High cost the bad build.

    I think buy Il 76 ok

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:44 am

    France, Germany and Italy launch the 2020 European MALE UAV

    France, Germany and Italy have signed a Declaration of Intent (DoI) for the definition study of a unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) Medium Altitude Long Endurance European (Medium Altitude Long Endurance or MALE). The three countries signed the document sets up a definition study two years to develop a European capability in the area of ​​unmanned aircraft systems for surveillance missions, reconnaissance and intelligence (ISR) yesterday.

    The definition phase of the call MALE 2020 will serve to unite the customer requirements and reduce technical and financial risks of the program. If everything progresses as expected, following this period, it was decided to develop and acquire this system by the three countries.

    Major European countries have for years claiming a European capability in areas how are you own instead of buying Israeli or American systems origin to consider this as a strategic capability. This sovereign solution would both surveillance and reconnaissance missions of a military nature to civil security applications. The decision has been welcomed by the three companies that participate in this program: Airbus Defence and Space by Germany, Dassault Aviation by France and Finmeccanica from Italy. These companies agreed in May last year to make a proposal for the definition of 24 months after which there will be the stage of development and ultimately the delivery, which would begin in 2020 .


    Spain, for the moment, apart

    In March the Spanish Ministry of Defence presented the Director of RPAs Plan which presented its intentions in this area, act in which he predicted that Spain would stay out, at least initially, of this program. This week it was announced the joint development of a Class III RPAS by Germany, France and Italy, which have already positioned the Airbus Defence and Space company, Dassault Aviation and Alenia Aermacchi representing each of these countries and now is formally launched. It is planned that an agreement between the three countries in the Paris Air Show to be held in June is signed. The Spanish Ministry of Defense is studying the adoption of an interim or transitional solution to meet your needs of a MALE or RPAS Class III . This would cover the current shortcomings and would define the requirements for Spanish participation in a European program that does not materialize before 2025. The European program should be Spanish industrial participation as soon as possible, preferably in the feasibility phase. The Ministry of Spanish defense office there is a program for strategic MALE and HALE has already launched the RFI (Request For Information) and a feasibility study. The main candidates are the Predator / Reaper US General Atomics (associated in Spain with Sener and Hero of Israel Aerospace Industries, evaluated by the Civil Guard in Spain. (JNG)

    http://www.defensa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15690:francia-alemania-e-italia-ponen-en-marcha-el-uav-europeo-male-2020&catid=57:otan&Itemid=186


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:11 am

    Tiger Sharpening Claws: European Combat Helicopter Set for Upgrade


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:41 am

    Airbus Enlarges A400M Facilities in Spain

    MADRID — Airbus Defence and Space has increased its facilities for the A400M military transport plane in Seville after renting a new hangar to update and maintain aircraft in service. A French Air Force A400M is already being modernized there.

    The new hangar, owned by Greenmark S.L., is located next to the A400M final assembly line in Seville and has 6,000 square meters of working area. Airbus DS will have an extra 11,000 square meters handed over by the Spanish Air Force. The agreement is valid until 2022, the European manufacturer reported.

    This announcement comes four months after the crash of an Airbus A400M during a test flight in Seville, killing four of the six people on board and seriously injuring the other two.

    The production plan for this year is under review following that accident. However, Airbus DS is still targeting at least 13 aircraft in 2015. The UK Royal Air Force will be the next client to receive an A400M.

    Five national air forces include the aircraft in their fleets: France (6), United Kingdom (2), Turkey (2), Germany (1) and Malaysia (1).

    The first A400M was delivered in 2013. A total of 174 have been ordered, but the company has been having difficulties meeting its delivery schedule, prompting Airbus to shake up its management program in January.

    Airbus DS is moving the headquarters of the A400M program from Toulouse, France, to Seville, a change that will involve the arrival of 100 extra engineers in Seville.


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  Militarov on Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:41 pm

    "Kuwait has agreed to purchase 28 Typhoon combat jets from the Italian government in a deal worth billions of euro, industry sources in the region said Friday. The deal, which has not yet been finalized calls for Kuwait to buy 22 single seat and six twin-seat Typhoons in a government-to-government agreement, Defense News reported. If the deal goes through as planned, Kuwait would be the first foreign customer to acquire the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar being developed for the Typhoon jet by Italy's Selex ES. With a number of Middle Eastern countries having purchased the Rafale fighter jet from French rival firm Dassault, the Kuwaiti deal "reinvigorates other opportunities in the gulf region for Typhoon," one industry executive told Defense News. Earlier this year, France closed deals to sell the Rafale to Qatar and Egypt, while it is already delivering the jets to Egypt. Saudi Arabia and Oman have already purchased Typhoons, with the Saudis talking about buying more of the jets. Bahrain is another potential customer in the Gulf region."

    Source: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150911/1026898291.html#ixzz3lT7XhRcv


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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:19 am

    Militarov wrote:"Kuwait has agreed to purchase 28 Typhoon combat jets from the Italian government in a deal worth billions of euro, industry sources in the region said Friday. The deal, which has not yet been finalized calls for Kuwait to buy 22 single seat and six twin-seat Typhoons in a government-to-government agreement, Defense News reported. If the deal goes through as planned, Kuwait would be the first foreign customer to acquire the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar being developed for the Typhoon jet by Italy's Selex ES. With a number of Middle Eastern countries having purchased the Rafale fighter jet from French rival firm Dassault, the Kuwaiti deal "reinvigorates other opportunities in the gulf region for Typhoon," one industry executive told Defense News. Earlier this year, France closed deals to sell the Rafale to Qatar and Egypt, while it is already delivering the jets to Egypt. Saudi Arabia and Oman have already purchased Typhoons, with the Saudis talking about buying more of the jets. Bahrain is another potential customer in the Gulf region."

    Source: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150911/1026898291.html#ixzz3lT7XhRcv


    Gulf Arab States are subsidising Europe's mostly uncompetitive military industry.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  BlackArrow on Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:08 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Gulf Arab States are subsidising Europe's mostly uncompetitive military industry.

    Nonsense, have you seen Airbus airliner sales lately, or Eurocopter sales? Why would European military aircraft be any different?

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:38 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Gulf Arab States are subsidising Europe's mostly uncompetitive military industry.

    Nonsense, have you seen Airbus airliner sales lately, or Eurocopter sales? Why would European military aircraft be any different?

    Military industry I'm talking about.

    A400s are capable but ridiculously expensive, Rafales basically the same. Eurofighter would probably be a good deal cheaper if they didn't produce each bit and bob of it in a different country - a political project if I ever saw one.

    I think this pertains more to European Aerospace industries than anything else.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  BlackArrow on Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:26 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    BlackArrow wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Gulf Arab States are subsidising Europe's mostly uncompetitive military industry.

    Nonsense, have you seen Airbus airliner sales lately, or Eurocopter sales? Why would European military aircraft be any different?

    Military industry I'm talking about.

    A400s are capable but ridiculously expensive, Rafales basically the same.

    I don't think A400s are that expensive. You got to think of overall long-term running costs over a period of 20 years or so. Anyway, what is the alternative, C-130, Il-76?

    Eurofighter would probably be a good deal cheaper if they didn't produce each bit and bob of it in a different country - a political project if I ever saw one.

    I think this pertains more to European Aerospace industries than anything else.


    Su-30 Flankers have their final assembly in 3 different locations: 2 in Russia and 1 in India. In how many different locations was the MiG-21 assembled?

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:56 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:I don't think A400s are that expensive. You got to think of overall long-term running costs over a period of 20 years or so. Anyway, what is the alternative, C-130, Il-76?

    Il-76 - it's a fraction of the price; the Il-476 too.

    The A400 is a good aircraft but it just offers little extra for the huge premiums that it's demanding.

    It's like with the Mi-38. The Mi-8/Mi-17 at the time, could do about 95% of what the Mi-38 could; and at only a fraction of the price. Hence why the Mi-38 has been kept on the backburner until it can bring more to the table that the Mi-8/Mi-17 variants can't.

    Su-30 Flankers have their final assembly in 3 different locations: 2 in Russia and 1 in India. In how many different locations was the MiG-21 assembled?

    That's not the same thing; besides which these 3 locations produce different variants for different customers, and use some different parts.

    It's certainly true that parts for the Su-27/Su-30 class are produced in different locations and companies in Russia. But overall the whole network is logical, and optimized. Nothing is built in a different country - maybe only some minor parts in the Ukraine or Belarus.

    The Europeans only spread out their production so much because they wanted it to be a 'European' project, I'm willing to bet.

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    Re: European Defence Industries: News

    Post  BlackArrow on Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:14 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Il-76 - it's a fraction of the price; the Il-476 too.

    The A400 is a good aircraft but it just offers little extra for the huge premiums that it's demanding.

    It's like with the Mi-38. The Mi-8/Mi-17 at the time, could do about 95% of what the Mi-38 could; and at only a fraction of the price. Hence why the Mi-38 has been kept on the backburner until it can bring more to the table that the Mi-8/Mi-17 variants can't.

    The Il-76 and Il-76TD-90 are not a fraction of the price of an A400. They are also basically a 50-year old design.

    That's not the same thing; besides which these 3 locations produce different variants for different customers, and use some different parts.

    It's certainly true that parts for the Su-27/Su-30 class are produced in different locations and companies in Russia. But overall the whole network is logical, and optimized. Nothing is built in a different country - maybe only some minor parts in the Ukraine or Belarus.

    KnAAPO and Irkut build different variants of the Su-30, as does HAL in India. Indian and Russian Su-30s contain components and systems sourced from outside the Russian Federation, from France India, Israel, Sweden and South Africa.
    I'd say that was a pretty inefficient and politicised production set-up if ever there was one.

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