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    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:30 am

    Would be interesting to upgrade a T-55 with a high velocity 57mm gun, or even an upgraded 76.2mm gun with modern ammo.

    More ammo carried... reduce the crew to two or three with an autoloading system... modern capable optics and aiming systems... new dynamic armour... and APS.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:45 am

    It would essentially end up as a lighter tank if done right. T-55 may be old but it can get basic armor package and an upgraded gun and can be a light tank. They are used quite effectively (Chinese variant) in Tibet, but being replaced by a new light tank. No need to make it new, just modify it and can be effective again.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:21 am

    Good ideas on the T-55 I believe there was rumours of Peru wanting to upgrade some of their T-55 with the turret of Bmpt. On the subject of 57mm gun I always thought that the Zsu 57-2 was always a good ground support vehicle after the anti air capacity was diminished with introduction of anti air missiles. Still a good use for the vehicle although an enclosed turret upgrade should be included to protect gunner. I know some have had crude turret roofs welded on to them in the past. Ideally a T-55 with a Bmpt turret but replace the 30mm guns with a single or double 57mm gun.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:32 pm

    T-55s are needed to fill out a major fire support shortage in the infantry units.

    Iraq does in fact have several contracts signed in the spring of 2014 for armour including:
    150 T90S
    unknown number of 2S19
    150 BMP3

    Some units of the 9th Division 34th Brigade actually began early training for both T90 and BMP3 then.
    all of these were put on hold after the ISIS takeover in June 2014, and now seem to have been resumed.


    Iraq's real weakness is in air defence. Turkey, Saudi, Kuwait, Jordan and anyone else can fly over Iraq and bomb any point without Iraqis being able to challenge them or even just deter them in any way. Its a critical weakness that leaves them vulnerable to political blackmail by these neighbouring states.

    It was always part of the plan to implement S300 SAMs and the PANTSIR-S1 systems were acquired as the first phase of the AD system (the others being the C2 system, Early Warning Systems and the long range SAMs).

    I believe China has offered FD-2000 SAMs to Iraq last year on a credit agreement for $2.5Bn guaranteed by Chinese run oilfields in Iraq, however its still coming and going in Iraq between that and the Russian option.

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:57 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Good ideas on the T-55 I believe there was rumours of Peru wanting to upgrade some of their T-55 with the turret of Bmpt. On the subject of 57mm gun I always thought that the Zsu 57-2 was always a good ground support vehicle after the anti air capacity was diminished with introduction of anti air missiles. Still a good use for the vehicle although an enclosed turret upgrade should be included to protect gunner. I know some have had crude turret roofs welded on to them in the past. Ideally a T-55 with a Bmpt turret but replace the 30mm guns with a single or double 57mm gun.

    I think these are the home made jobbies you mean.

    http://iraqimilitary.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2329&start=75


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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:24 am

    If it is fire support you are after then the medium pressure 100mm rifled gun of the BMP-3 would make more sense to fit to a T-55.

    It packs a good HE punch without having an enormous shell case and for situations where enemy armour needs to be engaged a guided shell and a HEAT shell are available.

    You could probably modify the target for one crewman and use an autoloader. The smaller ammo means you could carry a few hundred rounds easily and with rather less recoil.


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:31 am

    Would you transfer the whole bmp-3 turret or just the 100mm gun. I am actually surprised Russia hasnt offered the turret as upgrade package for T-55 customers.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:20 am

    Protection level of the BMP turret is not really high enough.

    I seem to remember that the T-54/T-55 had space in the front hull for two crew originally with a bow machine gun and bow machine gunner arrangement.

    With modern optics and a two man crew sitting in the front hull with existing hull armour with an extra layer of ceramic armour and perhaps a decent ERA or NERA layer and of course an active defence system should be plenty of protection.

    A reshaped turret with superior optics and the 100mm rifled main gun replaced with a 100mm rifled medium pressure gun and a 30mm cannon but with the turret area filled with ammo... on the BMP-3 the turret ring held 40 rounds of 100mm ammo with 8 missiles and 500 30mm cannon shells in the turret along with 2,000 rounds for the coaxial MG.

    I would say with two crewmen not in the turret a double load should be easily possible with 80 rounds of 100mm HE shells, and 1,000 rounds of 30 x 165mm ammo and 16 guided missiles, plus 4,000 MG rounds.

    I would also add a roof mounted remote weapons station either for a 30mm or 40mm grenade launcher.

    A bit like a well protected IFV without troop carrying capacity.

    In most cases it will be vastly more use than any tank which is better suited to taking on enemy equivalents of a MBT, this vehicle would be ideal for taking on enemy troops and medium to light vehicles most of the time and also light enemy aircraft with the capability to engage enemy armour too (with ATGMs).


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:30 pm

    Sounds like a good plan for T-55. I have always thought that there is still a good use for T54/55 T-62 T-64 even the Syrians found a use for there old T-34 by mounting D-30 on it. The Cubans seem to be good at doing that sort of thing with old guns even a Btr -60 with T-55 turret. Many old artillery pieces have ended up on various vehicles. Btr60/70/80 and btr-50 as well as Bmp-1, MT-LB, Btr-152, Btr-40, brdm 1 & 2 T-34 are all still viable platforms. And all the various artillery, anti air guns, mortars are all enough to mount. I always thought a SP 160 mm could be a good option mounted in a btr 50 open the hatches mortar flips up and then ready for action. Also double barrelled 76 and or 85 mm artillery guns would be great still reasonable range and the lack of fire power would be negated by the high rate of fire from double barrels this would havoc on light armour and troops on the ground imagine that vehicle could fire 50 rounds per minute of 76mm (25 rpm from one barrel) or 40 rpm of 85mm of course and auto loader system would have to be installed but if think if these vehicles existed and what a group of 8-12 vehicles could do. 12 vehicles mounted with double 76mm for instance could fire 600 rounds in 1 minute and if fired against troops out in open ground or in soft cover that's certain death. It's just an idea of course Smile
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:15 am

    Actually it has been improvements in armour that has led to light calibres being withdrawn steadily from front line use... an example is the British Abbot in 105mm calibre... a calibre widely used by Germany in WWII as an artillery piece.

    It has largely been rendered obsolete by improvements in Soviet and now Russian armour levels, but the point is that the level of armour protection on Russian IFVs and MBTs etc etc has no relevance for a country like Iraq or Nigeria for that matter. The opponents they might fight will not have helmets and flak vests and wont move around in much more than trucks, so smaller calibres have benefits in terms of ammo size and weight and amount of ammo ready to fire and also in terms of recoil and support and supply.

    I don't think that double barrel guns are really that great an idea as the weight of a extra barrel would be enormous and the added loading mechanism and stabilisation and laying equipment would fill the turret and add costs and weight.

    I think investing in an auto loading/ammo handling system to increase rate of fire for the existing single gun and some sort of cooling system to allow sustained fire would make more sense.


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    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:30 pm

    Iraqi Ministry of Defence spokesman announced that Iraq will soon announce a large arms purchase agreement to expand and diversify the military.

    The following items were mentioned:
    -modern fighter jets
    -New helicopters for army aviation
    -Modern Battle Tanks
    -New Armoured Fighting Vehicles
    -New Air defence systems

    The spokesman did not mention anything about types. But the keyword that Iraq is seeking alternative suppliers hints that the new equipment will have a Russian or Chinese origin.

    Anyway, many such contracts have been negotiated and signed in the past and stumbled on financing... so we shall see what happens.
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    George1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:31 am

    Russia to supply big batch of tanks to Iraq, confirms Russian presidential aide russia

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/956990


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    George1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:44 am

    The fact of signing a contract for the delivery of T-90S tanks to Iraq was confirmed

    As Yegor Sozaev-Guryev explains in an article "The Kremlin confirmed the sale of the T-90 to Iraq" in today's issue of the newspaper Izvestia, the Iraqi armed forces will acquire Russian T-90 tanks that have proven themselves in combat operations in Syria. The fact of signing a contract between Russia and Iraq to Izvestia was confirmed by Vladimir Kozhin, the presidential aide on military-technical cooperation. In the expert environment, the contract was valued at $ 1 billion, and the number of tanks was several hundred.

    - A decent contract for a large lot, I can not name a specific amount, the number [of tanks] is large, "Vladimir Kozhin told Izvestia.

    Earlier, the Ministry of Defense of Iraq reported on the purchase of the T-90 - it was about the supply of more than 70 tanks. In this case, according to Izvestia, this is only the first batch of equipment, followed by others. However, in the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, where Izvestia appealed for comments, they did not disclose details of the deal.

    At the same time, experts say that since Soviet times contracts with Iraq have always assumed a large volume of supplied products with high added value.
    - In this case, we can talk about the delivery of several hundred cars, and the amount of the contract may exceed $ 1 billion. This order is a great help for Uralvagonzavod. In addition, this contract is a serious foreign policy success of Russia. After all, the Americans fought in Iraq, and the choice of the Iraqi military eventually fell on the Russian tank, "said Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, in a conversation with Izvestia.

    According to the expert, after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi military decided to abandon the acquisition of tanks of Soviet and Iraqi production. T-90 attracted their attention after the outbreak of hostilities in Syria and Iraq, where the terrorists successfully dealt with the Turkish Leopards (used during Operation Euphrates Shield) and the American Abrams that are in service with the Iraqi army. Russian combat vehicles have shown themselves well during the Syrian conflict, the expert said. In particular, the Syrian government troops used the T-90 model of 1992 - and there are cases when this equipment could withstand several hits in a row.

    The fact that the successful experience of using Russian weapons in Syria helps our country build up military exports, in early July, President Vladimir Putin said during a meeting of the commission on military-technical cooperation between the Russian Federation and foreign countries.

    Now the Iraqi army will have both American and Russian tanks. According to Ruslan Pukhov, this was a conscious step, allowing Iraq not to become dependent on one foreign supplier.

    T-90 is the most modern Russian serial tank. The machine combines high mobility, firepower and relatively small overall dimensions and weight. The tank is on the armament of the Russian army and the Armed Forces of Syria, Algeria, Azerbaijan and India. In India, T-90 is produced under license. Negotiations on the supply of the tank are already being conducted with Vietnam. As Vladimir Kozhin told Izvestia, Kuwait has a "big request" for buying T-90, but dialogue on this contract is still ongoing.

    Note bmpd. As previously reported by our blog, in the annual report of NPK Uralvagonzavod JSC for 2016 among the priorities for 2017 was the beginning of the implementation of the contract with the customer "368" (Iraq-note) for the delivery of the first batch of 73 T-90S/SК.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2739050.html


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    Godric

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Godric on Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:15 pm

    according to sputnik it's the T-90MS variant and seemingly they have ordered a number of support vehicles the BMPT-72

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201707201055727641-russia-iraq-t-90-tanks/

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  iraqidabab on Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:20 pm

    So it's T-90MS or T-90S?

    Any way to know for sure?
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    George1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:35 am

    iraqidabab wrote:So it's T-90MS or T-90S?

    Any way to know for sure?

    T-90MS

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201707221055790609-russia-iraq-t-90-tank-deal/


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    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:04 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    -New helicopters for army aviation
    -

    I think MI-17v5 which they were planning more of.
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    Godric

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Godric on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:44 am

    iraqidabab wrote:So it's T-90MS or T-90S?

    Any way to know for sure?

    T-90MS and Terminator 2s

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:05 pm

    Godric wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:So it's T-90MS or T-90S?

    Any way to know for sure?

    T-90MS and Terminator 2s

    from my understanding Iraq never ordered T90MS or Terminator. sadly.

    As I know Iraq has pending orders for T90S, BMP-3M and MSTA-S since 2014.
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    Godric

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  Godric on Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:17 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:So it's T-90MS or T-90S?

    Any way to know for sure?

    T-90MS and Terminator 2s

    from my understanding Iraq never ordered T90MS or Terminator. sadly.

    As I know Iraq has pending orders for T90S, BMP-3M and MSTA-S since 2014.

    well they have now it is the T-90MS they have ordered

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:24 pm

    Godric wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:So it's T-90MS or T-90S?

    Any way to know for sure?

    T-90MS and Terminator 2s

    from my understanding Iraq never ordered T90MS or Terminator. sadly.

    As I know Iraq has pending orders for T90S, BMP-3M and MSTA-S since 2014.

    well they have now it is the T-90MS they have ordered  

    are you sure about that? the official uralvagonzavod release states that Iraq is receiving T90S.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:46 pm

    interesting to note that Iraq is buying new thermal sights from leonardo DRS for its remaining 125 Abrams tanks (out of 146 delivered)... the "old" 2nd generation thermal cameras from the M1A1s would then be free to be used to upgrade some existing tanks in the iraqi arsenal (I presume some of the T72M1s that Iraq bought from Czech Republic and Bulgaria).

    That would give the Iraqi army a nice fleet of relatively capable tanks:

    125-140 upgrade T72M1s with hand me down sights from the Abrams
    125 M1A1 Abrams with improved sights
    150 T90S MBTs newly delivered from Russia
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    George1

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:38 pm

    Russia starts T-90S main battle tank deliveries to Iraq

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/975743


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    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:21 am

    iraqis on the internet are reporting that this is an Iraqi T90 at uralvagonzavod...

    it has the same cammo as the T90 chassis of Iraq's TOS-1A.

    It seems to incorporate features from T90S and some from T90MS


    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:57 pm

    the first T90S tanks arrive in Iraq.

    http://iraqimilitary.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1968&start=90








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